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Why do people keep defending sugar?
Replies
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Really nice to hear some sensible people giving their opinions. Honestly I got a little annoyed at all the mean posts on other threads that I read.
Thanks to everyone for all the interesting posts that have been added. 😀7 -
Thing is bobkat we've argued this point over thousands of pages on this site and sugar discussions always go the same way.
"We" defend sugar because of all the above stated reasons.
If *You* don't want to eat sugar, *You* are free not to.
We've just had this discussion a time or twenty thousand.
I will continue to eat some sugar. Some days more than others. I'm old enough to make my own decisions about how much and when I do that.
Assume you are too.
Sugar isn't bad. Over-indulgence can be if it is crowding out other nutrition. This is a very moderate/middle of the spectrum forum. Extremes get tempered, Keto gets questioned as does binge eating. Restricting certain foods is an individual choice.35 -
In training for my next Marathon assuming it doesn't get cancelled (12 weeks away), I'm going to run 13-14 miles today and then come home and enjoy a huge slab of cake.
As pp says, "if you don't want to consume sugar, don't." Who's defending it and even if they are, who cares?
Why do stupid questions get entertained by intelligent people with great responses, especially only to be argued with unintelligent responses. Get a hobby or go exercise.13 -
In training for my next Marathon assuming it doesn't get cancelled (12 weeks away), I'm going to run 13-14 miles today and then come home and enjoy a huge slab of cake.
As pp says, "if you don't want to consume sugar, don't." Who's defending it and even if they are, who cares?
Why do stupid questions get entertained by intelligent people with great responses, especially only to be argued with unintelligent responses. Get a hobby or go exercise.
I thought this was a discussion area?18 -
purplebobkat wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »purplebobkat wrote: »Sugar (& other highly processed carbs) has no nutritional benefits, so why are so many people defending it?
Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.
So although a lot of people lose weight while keeping their sugar levels high, is this something to be applauded or a reason to defend sugar?purplebobkat wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »They can pry my fruit from my cold sticky hands!
Nothing wrong with fruit, it's an important source of many vitamins, minerals & fibre.
But fruit can also be a large source of sugar.
I'm not sure what you're saying here - that added sugar is bad, but inherent/naturally occurring sugar is fine?
How much added sugar is indefensible?- Are you with the WHO, which says people should keep their added sugar (which they call "free sugar") to 10% or less of their daily calories, with more health benefits realized if that is reduced to 5%? https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
- Or do you think ALL added sugar is bad?
I tried to keep added sugar at 5% for a while, which lead me to make weird sacrifices which were ultimately unsustainable to me. I probably do best at no more than 10% added sugar.
The problem with added sugar (for me) is that it can also come with lots of calories from fat (ex: ice cream), and often flour (ex: baked goods) and these calories crowd out room for foods that keep me satiated for less calories, like protein.
However, the 3 g of sugar I put in my tea 3 x per day and the 9 g of sugar in my chocolate protein powder, etc., is not a problem for me.
It's actually a really interesting question, of how much sugar is bad for you, and something that I can't see being answered anytime soon.
But my theory is that if it's eaten as a whole food (e.g. an apple) then that seems sensible, but when I eat Haribo that's not very sensible & I would never defend it as a good idea. Just something that I understand is bad for me & have eaten anyway.
I asked this question because I have been reading other posts on mfp today (Self isolating) and found a huge number of people almost attacking others for saying sugar is bad. I wondered why.
I believe there are athletes here who do eat foods like Haribo during endurance events. I would call that good
How many Haribos are bad? Surely one is ok? The serving size I see on a package on Amazon is 13 pieces/30 grams, which has 14 grams of sugar. I'm not sure I would call that bad either. However, if eating one Haribo led you to eat the entire bag (4.5 servings in this bag on Amazon) I have no problem labeling that bad for you.
Usually people do give nuanced answers like I've been doing here. But since this sugar topic comes up all the time, some posters may not include all the context, which may be giving you the impression that they are defending sugar without qualifications.15 -
purplebobkat wrote: »In training for my next Marathon assuming it doesn't get cancelled (12 weeks away), I'm going to run 13-14 miles today and then come home and enjoy a huge slab of cake.
As pp says, "if you don't want to consume sugar, don't." Who's defending it and even if they are, who cares?
Why do stupid questions get entertained by intelligent people with great responses, especially only to be argued with unintelligent responses. Get a hobby or go exercise.
I thought this was a discussion area?
She did word that poorly. I didn't find your responses unintelligent and don't think she was directing that at you personally.
You are welcome to debate sugar all you like11 -
In training for my next Marathon assuming it doesn't get cancelled (12 weeks away), I'm going to run 13-14 miles today and then come home and enjoy a huge slab of cake.
As pp says, "if you don't want to consume sugar, don't." Who's defending it and even if they are, who cares?
Why do stupid questions get entertained by intelligent people with great responses, especially only to be argued with unintelligent responses. Get a hobby or go exercise.
I was once much like OP. It took me LEARNING and having these conversations with many long time members here that no macro-nutrient is "evil". It is all a point of view. If someone is sedentary most of the day, I WOULD suggest lowering added sugar intake, but if someone like a body builder is doing strenuous two a days, some Gatorade or Gummy Bears might help him not "gas out". We have to educated each other. If WE don't, most media outlets will continue using press grabbing pseudo science information, We grow and we learn, or we die from ignorance.15 -
psychod787 wrote: »In training for my next Marathon assuming it doesn't get cancelled (12 weeks away), I'm going to run 13-14 miles today and then come home and enjoy a huge slab of cake.
As pp says, "if you don't want to consume sugar, don't." Who's defending it and even if they are, who cares?
Why do stupid questions get entertained by intelligent people with great responses, especially only to be argued with unintelligent responses. Get a hobby or go exercise.
I was once much like OP. It took me LEARNING and having these conversations with many long time members here that no macro-nutrient is "evil". It is all a point of view. If someone is sedentary most of the day, I WOULD suggest lowering added sugar intake, but if someone like a body builder is doing strenuous two a days, some Gatorade or Gummy Bears might help him not "gas out". We have to educated each other. If WE don't, most media outlets will continue using press grabbing pseudo science information, We grow and we learn, or we die from ignorance.
Thank you.
Currently confined to home (Self isolating) so very much sedentary. Lol5 -
I think the whole world is self-isolating right now, bobkat.
I'm in Seattle. So. . . yeah.
I hope you're not sick.5 -
cmriverside wrote: »I think the whole world is self-isolating right now, bobkat.
I'm in Seattle. So. . . yeah.
I hope you're not sick.
Pretty sure I have it, fever, exhaustion & shortness of breath. But don't worry, not leaving the house for any reason till im fully better.
22 -
kshama2001 wrote: »purplebobkat wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »purplebobkat wrote: »Sugar (& other highly processed carbs) has no nutritional benefits, so why are so many people defending it?
Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.
So although a lot of people lose weight while keeping their sugar levels high, is this something to be applauded or a reason to defend sugar?purplebobkat wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »They can pry my fruit from my cold sticky hands!
Nothing wrong with fruit, it's an important source of many vitamins, minerals & fibre.
But fruit can also be a large source of sugar.
I'm not sure what you're saying here - that added sugar is bad, but inherent/naturally occurring sugar is fine?
How much added sugar is indefensible?- Are you with the WHO, which says people should keep their added sugar (which they call "free sugar") to 10% or less of their daily calories, with more health benefits realized if that is reduced to 5%? https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
- Or do you think ALL added sugar is bad?
I tried to keep added sugar at 5% for a while, which lead me to make weird sacrifices which were ultimately unsustainable to me. I probably do best at no more than 10% added sugar.
The problem with added sugar (for me) is that it can also come with lots of calories from fat (ex: ice cream), and often flour (ex: baked goods) and these calories crowd out room for foods that keep me satiated for less calories, like protein.
However, the 3 g of sugar I put in my tea 3 x per day and the 9 g of sugar in my chocolate protein powder, etc., is not a problem for me.
It's actually a really interesting question, of how much sugar is bad for you, and something that I can't see being answered anytime soon.
But my theory is that if it's eaten as a whole food (e.g. an apple) then that seems sensible, but when I eat Haribo that's not very sensible & I would never defend it as a good idea. Just something that I understand is bad for me & have eaten anyway.
I asked this question because I have been reading other posts on mfp today (Self isolating) and found a huge number of people almost attacking others for saying sugar is bad. I wondered why.
I believe there are athletes here who do eat foods like Haribo during endurance events. I would call that good
How many Haribos are bad? Surely one is ok? The serving size I see on a package on Amazon is 13 pieces/30 grams, which has 14 grams of sugar. I'm not sure I would call that bad either. However, if eating one Haribo led you to eat the entire bag (4.5 servings in this bag on Amazon) I have no problem labeling that bad for you.
Usually people do give nuanced answers like I've been doing here. But since this sugar topic comes up all the time, some posters may not include all the context, which may be giving you the impression that they are defending sugar without qualifications.
Labeling Haribo as anything is, in fact, nuanced.
As you mentioned, some athletes do eat Haribo and it has a positive impact on their performance. In that case, Haribo is good.
Another example: someone who is happy to have a serving or two (within their calories, eating a mainly nutritious diet) but would be unhappy if they cut it out, and would "fall off the wagon" or overeat. In this case Haribo is good because it prevents a bad outcome - not everything about a person's health has to do with nutrients.
A third example: someone who chose to eat a serving or two of Haribo (within their calories, eating a mainly nutritious diet), but could have done without. In this case it's neither good nor bad because it didn't cause a bad outcome or prevent a bad outcome.
A fourth example: someone who ate a serving of Haribo, it wasn't enough, they powered through the day white knuckling against the desire to eat more. Did not overeat, but ended the day mentally exhausted. A few more days like that and they're too tired to continue working on managing their calories. In this case, it's bad.
Fifth example is the one you mentioned: someone who couldn't control themselves and overate, either going over calories consistently or crowding out nutrients.
...and so on.
That's why "X is bad" is rarely accurate for any food. You need to specify "X is bad for this person in this situation for this reason". You can say "X is not the most optimal choice to achieve goal Y", like "table sugar is not the most nutrient dense food out there", but it just ends up sounding like stating the obvious. I doubt people are eating table sugar for its nutrient density, but nutrient density is not the only measuring stick for what's "good".17 -
purplebobkat wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »In training for my next Marathon assuming it doesn't get cancelled (12 weeks away), I'm going to run 13-14 miles today and then come home and enjoy a huge slab of cake.
As pp says, "if you don't want to consume sugar, don't." Who's defending it and even if they are, who cares?
Why do stupid questions get entertained by intelligent people with great responses, especially only to be argued with unintelligent responses. Get a hobby or go exercise.
I was once much like OP. It took me LEARNING and having these conversations with many long time members here that no macro-nutrient is "evil". It is all a point of view. If someone is sedentary most of the day, I WOULD suggest lowering added sugar intake, but if someone like a body builder is doing strenuous two a days, some Gatorade or Gummy Bears might help him not "gas out". We have to educated each other. If WE don't, most media outlets will continue using press grabbing pseudo science information, We grow and we learn, or we die from ignorance.
Thank you.
Currently confined to home (Self isolating) so very much sedentary. Lol
There is never a bad question when you're trying to find the real answers. And as @psychod787 stated above, almost all people here on the forums learned some things along the way.
And though stated in a caustic way, the comment by @LoveyChar , if put in proper context, has it's place. An endurance athlete often has more "extra" space in their diet due to burning more calories on a regular basis. And since carbs are often a fuel source, replenishing them with more carbs is often not a bad thing. I personally prefer to maybe hit the micro brewery with a food truck after a long cardio session, but others would prefer a doughnut or piece of cake.
BUT, the same can apply to someone to is more sedentary, as long as they usually eat a more balanced and nutritious selection most of the time. A single choice is not bad, the overall balance of your choices can be. And often the debates and heated arguments are the results of people assuming the extremes of a question or statement, which then turns into straw man debates of ridiculous proportions at times.
But for most of us, unless any certain food is a trigger to excess consumption, we can have that processed sugary sweet now and then, with no fear. Some people even find that restricting such things will just cause them to eventually binge on them. Others can be more disciplined around the clock.
And on very rare occasion, there just might be people who don't appreciate a good piece of cake, pie, ice cream, or even doughnuts. I would probably find this rather disturbing, if not for the fact that it leaves more available for the rest of us.9 -
People "defend" sugar, because there is a lot of misinformation about it out there. Sugar (unless you have a medical condition that dictates it), is not inherently bad for you. It is a macro-nutrient that provides part of your daily calorie makeup. It "can" be bad for you if you eat too much of it and it causes a calorie surplus, or you are eating too much processed sugar foods and are crowding out other nutrients. But as part of a balanced, calorie controlled diet, it is not "bad" for you. I lost 45 pounds eating plenty of sugar, natural and artificial.
The reason why we fight for it is because the misconceptions make it harder for people to successfully lose weight. A lot of people come here with the notion that they need to cut out or severely reduce their sugar in order to lose weight. In general, people here support keeping it as simple as possible, because the more restrictions you put on yourself, the harder it is going to be to keep on track. Then people fall off and don't lose the weight. So adding "restrict sugar" rather than just "control calories", can make it harder to successfully lose weight. Now, some people may find they need to reduce their sugar intake to successfully stay on their calorie plan. That's okay, and it makes sense for them to restrict it. But not everyone needs to, and they shouldn't feel compelled to because others think it's "bad"20 -
purplebobkat wrote: »Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.
There's no evidence that the sugar in fruit and veg has bad effects that needs to be mitigated.
Some people might have conditions where they need to limit carbs consumed without protein and fiber, and carbs overall, but that doesn't mean that the sugar in fruit and veg is a bad thing in general, just made up for by the other parts. That suggests an attitude where you might think you were better off avoiding the higher net carb fruits or getting nutrition from sources other than whole fruits and veg (vitamin pills, veg powders), and is IMO not a good way to look at food.
What is the case is that it's important to have a balanced, nutrient dense, and calorie-appropriate diet. Added sugar (especially since it so often comes with lots of cals from added fat too) might crowd out more nutritious choices or lead to excess cals, so if that's an issue for someone they should adjust the diet to change that.
I don't have a huge sweet tooth and am typically happy having dessert type foods rarely and in reasonable portions, so I see no reason to even think about added sugar all that much (when I overeat other foods tend to be the culprit).
But sugar is not some demon food (or part of foods, like fruit) that inherently has bad effects.7 -
purplebobkat wrote: »Carbs are a macro nutrient so how can you say they have no nutritional benefit?
That would be the same as saying fat has no nutritional benefit!
Maybe also consider that providing energy is a vital part of your diet which carbs (including sugar) do very well.
Actually I said sugar has no nutritional value. Carbs can be healthy, but sugar is not healthy. So why are so many defending it?
(Just curious)
Why isn't sugar healthy in appropriate amounts?
In what precise way is it unhealthy as part of someone's entire diet?
It's so vital to the functioning of your body you will be forced to create your own in the absense of sufficient dietary carb intake - gluconeogenesis. To say it's not healthy is rather bizarre with no context.
Unjustified comments about diet would prompt me to defend a lot of things and not just sugar!
Saying sugar isn't healthy as a blanket statement is a daft as.....
Cucumber isn't healthy because it's got very little nutrional benefit.
Water isn't healthy as it's lacking all three macro nutrients.
I eat a high carb diet (grains, veg, fruit...) but actually eat a low amount of added sugar.
So please tell me why some sugar in my porridge or a sugary snack when I'm out cycling isn't healthy?
12 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »purplebobkat wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »purplebobkat wrote: »Sugar (& other highly processed carbs) has no nutritional benefits, so why are so many people defending it?
Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.
So although a lot of people lose weight while keeping their sugar levels high, is this something to be applauded or a reason to defend sugar?purplebobkat wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »They can pry my fruit from my cold sticky hands!
Nothing wrong with fruit, it's an important source of many vitamins, minerals & fibre.
But fruit can also be a large source of sugar.
I'm not sure what you're saying here - that added sugar is bad, but inherent/naturally occurring sugar is fine?
How much added sugar is indefensible?- Are you with the WHO, which says people should keep their added sugar (which they call "free sugar") to 10% or less of their daily calories, with more health benefits realized if that is reduced to 5%? https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
- Or do you think ALL added sugar is bad?
I tried to keep added sugar at 5% for a while, which lead me to make weird sacrifices which were ultimately unsustainable to me. I probably do best at no more than 10% added sugar.
The problem with added sugar (for me) is that it can also come with lots of calories from fat (ex: ice cream), and often flour (ex: baked goods) and these calories crowd out room for foods that keep me satiated for less calories, like protein.
However, the 3 g of sugar I put in my tea 3 x per day and the 9 g of sugar in my chocolate protein powder, etc., is not a problem for me.
It's actually a really interesting question, of how much sugar is bad for you, and something that I can't see being answered anytime soon.
But my theory is that if it's eaten as a whole food (e.g. an apple) then that seems sensible, but when I eat Haribo that's not very sensible & I would never defend it as a good idea. Just something that I understand is bad for me & have eaten anyway.
I asked this question because I have been reading other posts on mfp today (Self isolating) and found a huge number of people almost attacking others for saying sugar is bad. I wondered why.
I believe there are athletes here who do eat foods like Haribo during endurance events. I would call that good
How many Haribos are bad? Surely one is ok? The serving size I see on a package on Amazon is 13 pieces/30 grams, which has 14 grams of sugar. I'm not sure I would call that bad either. However, if eating one Haribo led you to eat the entire bag (4.5 servings in this bag on Amazon) I have no problem labeling that bad for you.
Usually people do give nuanced answers like I've been doing here. But since this sugar topic comes up all the time, some posters may not include all the context, which may be giving you the impression that they are defending sugar without qualifications.
Labeling Haribo as anything is, in fact, nuanced.
As you mentioned, some athletes do eat Haribo and it has a positive impact on their performance. In that case, Haribo is good.
Another example: someone who is happy to have a serving or two (within their calories, eating a mainly nutritious diet) but would be unhappy if they cut it out, and would "fall off the wagon" or overeat. In this case Haribo is good because it prevents a bad outcome - not everything about a person's health has to do with nutrients.
A third example: someone who chose to eat a serving or two of Haribo (within their calories, eating a mainly nutritious diet), but could have done without. In this case it's neither good nor bad because it didn't cause a bad outcome or prevent a bad outcome.
A fourth example: someone who ate a serving of Haribo, it wasn't enough, they powered through the day white knuckling against the desire to eat more. Did not overeat, but ended the day mentally exhausted. A few more days like that and they're too tired to continue working on managing their calories. In this case, it's bad.
Fifth example is the one you mentioned: someone who couldn't control themselves and overate, either going over calories consistently or crowding out nutrients.
...and so on.
That's why "X is bad" is rarely accurate for any food. You need to specify "X is bad for this person in this situation for this reason". You can say "X is not the most optimal choice to achieve goal Y", like "table sugar is not the most nutrient dense food out there", but it just ends up sounding like stating the obvious. I doubt people are eating table sugar for its nutrient density, but nutrient density is not the only measuring stick for what's "good".
This is why context is so important. Foods are not inherently good or bad. It all depends of the context and the amount for any individual. Blanket pronouncements are rarely accurate or effective.6 -
purplebobkat wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I think the whole world is self-isolating right now, bobkat.
I'm in Seattle. So. . . yeah.
I hope you're not sick.
Pretty sure I have it, fever, exhaustion & shortness of breath. But don't worry, not leaving the house for any reason till im fully better.
Maybe reading our gardening thread will cheer you up: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10708195/garden-thread/p1
And for when you are feeling better:
6 -
well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.7
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penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
that's just wrong...... sugar from fruit is just slightly different that refined sugar. Slight difference in glucose to fructose ratios.10 -
psychod787 wrote: »penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
that's just wrong...... sugar from fruit is just slightly different that refined sugar. Slight difference in glucose to fructose ratios.
And fruits vary on their glucose to fructose anyway.7
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