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Why do people keep defending sugar?
Replies
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penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
I would just ask how sugar "like sandpaper" gets in your veins, unless you're shooting it up? I really don't understand this.24 -
snowflake954 wrote: »penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
I would just ask how sugar "like sandpaper" gets in your veins, unless you're shooting it up? I really don't understand this.
Unfortunately, many family doctors know little of proper nutrition. They are luck to get a base education in school. Its actually very small. If they do not keep up with the "journals" they do not get updates. Most of what they learn is information from the media. I am lucky now, I have a doc who lifts. It took me a while to find one, but worth it.10 -
psychod787 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
I would just ask how sugar "like sandpaper" gets in your veins, unless you're shooting it up? I really don't understand this.
Unfortunately, many family doctors know little of proper nutrition. They are luck to get a base education in school. Its actually very small. If they do not keep up with the "journals" they do not get updates. Most of what they learn is information from the media. I am lucky now, I have a doc who lifts. It took me a while to find one, but worth it.
You crack me up.
How is "a doctor who lifts" any better, really?
I had a Harvard-graduated doc in internal medicine. She prescribed whatever her little hand-held blackberry told her to. I cannot TELL you the poor advice I got from her over the years. I finally just stopped telling her anything unless I felt like it was pretty danged serious.
Yes. I said blackberry.
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"sugar is like sandpaper in your veins"
Right there is a perfect example of why sugar gets defended.22 -
cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
I would just ask how sugar "like sandpaper" gets in your veins, unless you're shooting it up? I really don't understand this.
Unfortunately, many family doctors know little of proper nutrition. They are luck to get a base education in school. Its actually very small. If they do not keep up with the "journals" they do not get updates. Most of what they learn is information from the media. I am lucky now, I have a doc who lifts. It took me a while to find one, but worth it.
You crack me up.
How is "a doctor who lifts" any better, really?
I had a Harvard-graduated doc in internal medicine. She prescribed whatever her little hand-held blackberry told her to. I cannot TELL you the poor advice I got from her over the years. I finally just stopped telling her anything unless I felt like it was pretty danged serious.
Yes. I said blackberry.
Actually, he is an ARNP who lifts. Yes, he is the one who actually got me started reading random clinical studies (in some ways, I think me regrets it) and not to believe everything the media says. He is very well versed in nutrition. Though, in many ways I have surpassed him. Kind of happens when one.... uhhh.... obsesses with it for almost 2 years. When I go to see him, he ask my symptoms or ECT, and then will actually ask what I think. That is an odd one BTW. He actually lifts at my gym, so I see him once a week and will bring him new studies I have come into. *kitten* created a monster! He is also fairly young, 40. So, when I speak to him about an issue, he can relate because we are very close in age. He knows I am a nurse as well. Trust? Maybe? Fed up with dealing with me? For sure! lol A blackberry? WHAT? Is it 2007?7 -
Queue the Disagrees, but instead of a direct answer, I'll try to add to the discussion by another means.
And I will talk directly to the OP here.
A better question may have been:
Do you believe sugar is necessary in a diet?
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,44&q=is+sugar+necessary+in+a+diet&btnG=
What is the role of sweeteners vs free sugars in our diet?
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0022034515590377
Or at the least, ask which sugars would you defend being in a diet?
Sucrose, glucose, galactose, lactose, maltose, or xylose?
But I guess, one could start the conversation with:
Do you believe that the sugar industry paid off scientists, and Congress, to conceal the potential dangers of too much sugar in one's diet, especially for young children during their developmental years? Or maybe because of that, if indeed so, that there are still thousands who are committed to believing old or tainted data?
One source of many:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat
From there, one could ask:
Do you believe that there exist parts of a diet that are addictive, and thus create obesity, and not via - a lack of willpower? Do you believe the food industry is tainting our processed foods, by stripping out nutrients, to substitute with their additives - to make people addicted?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946262/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306452203005025
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/prevention-and-reversal-of-dietinduced-leptin-resistance-with-a-sugarfree-diet-despite-high-fat-content/B5151988E8E23EB1F7CC75565B2BE069#
Or after reading some of the responses, thus far, one could ask:
Do you believe one can add sugars to their diets, to add calories, to then add (or maintain) weight?
You could also wonder:
If someone lowers their daily sugar intake, in grams, and claims their teeth were whiter in weeks, does this seem plausible? (by lowering significantly).
Or ask what are the choices available that can replace sugar:
What are the choices to natural sugars, from fruits and vegetables, versus raw cane sugar, or processed sugar?
Sweeteners? Monk Fruit? Truvia? Stevia? Sweet and Low?
Is there a reason to avoid natural sugars? What about all those processed sugars?
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/56-different-names-for-sugar#section9
Is eating something sweet a sin? Is replacing the sugar with sweeteners any better?
Does cutting sugars in the diet help one lose weight? But if that's not a goal, can average people include sugars in a healthy diet? Then we are back to which sugars? sucrose, glucose, galactose, lactose, maltose, or that pesky little xylose? Or is there a natural combination which each person has to find.
On the flip side of this question (you asked), if one were to look at another item found in the diet, salts, would you expect the results to fall in-line with their answers? So your question would have been why do people defend sugars, and do they defend iodized salts? If you found one advocates sweeteners, do they advocate sea salts (non-iodized)?
The reason I ask, is it may give a better insight to their mental beliefs. It would be no different than how, say, one may judge someone speaking about the Keto diet, and ascertaining their views, i.e... whether they state one must not only go organic, but pasture feed organic. Or cage-free free range. And then deeper into the whole stress free raising environment. (You know, where they may advocate playing music to the crops, the cattle, the hens, etc...). I feel you get a better since of how, oh, let's say 'committed' they are.
I'll skip my personal conclusions or opinions. But that probably won't stop many from hitting that Disagree button. And yet, life goes on3 -
psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
I would just ask how sugar "like sandpaper" gets in your veins, unless you're shooting it up? I really don't understand this.
Unfortunately, many family doctors know little of proper nutrition. They are luck to get a base education in school. Its actually very small. If they do not keep up with the "journals" they do not get updates. Most of what they learn is information from the media. I am lucky now, I have a doc who lifts. It took me a while to find one, but worth it.
You crack me up.
How is "a doctor who lifts" any better, really?
I had a Harvard-graduated doc in internal medicine. She prescribed whatever her little hand-held blackberry told her to. I cannot TELL you the poor advice I got from her over the years. I finally just stopped telling her anything unless I felt like it was pretty danged serious.
Yes. I said blackberry.
Actually, he is an ARNP who lifts. Yes, he is the one who actually got me started reading random clinical studies (in some ways, I think me regrets it) and not to believe everything the media says. He is very well versed in nutrition. Though, in many ways I have surpassed him. Kind of happens when one.... uhhh.... obsesses with it for almost 2 years. When I go to see him, he ask my symptoms or ECT, and then will actually ask what I think. That is an odd one BTW. He actually lifts at my gym, so I see him once a week and will bring him new studies I have come into. *kitten* created a monster! He is also fairly young, 40. So, when I speak to him about an issue, he can relate because we are very close in age. He knows I am a nurse as well. Trust? Maybe? Fed up with dealing with me? For sure! lol A blackberry? WHAT? Is it 2007?
Well to be fair I stopped listening to that doctor in about 2003 other than for my thyroid meds and a yearly exam. I'm not really even sure on her knowledge of levo.
I think it's awesome you found that ARNP and that he's willing to share knowledge. I know you can be a dog with a bone so I bet he does have to listen as much as he teaches!
I've heard all kinds of whackadoodle things from medical "professionals."
I now listen to a Higher Power. It's basic. Eat whole foods and ocassional treats. Get some exercise. Drink water and get enough sleep. Mostly instinct.
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purplebobkat wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I think the whole world is self-isolating right now, bobkat.
I'm in Seattle. So. . . yeah.
I hope you're not sick.
Pretty sure I have it, fever, exhaustion & shortness of breath. But don't worry, not leaving the house for any reason till im fully better.
Have you called or seen your doctor? I believe that is indicated for shortness of breath.5 -
purplebobkat wrote: »Sugar (& other highly processed carbs) has no nutritional benefits, so why are so many people defending it?
Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.
So although a lot of people lose weight while keeping their sugar levels high, is this something to be applauded or a reason to defend sugar?
Just wanted to address the part about "highly processed" carbs having no nutritional benefits. Just a quick read of the nutrition label on any packaged food will contradict this assumption. They all contain various amounts of macro and micro nutrients, and can contribute to an overall healthy diet.8 -
psychod787 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
I would just ask how sugar "like sandpaper" gets in your veins, unless you're shooting it up? I really don't understand this.
Unfortunately, many family doctors know little of proper nutrition. They are luck to get a base education in school. Its actually very small. If they do not keep up with the "journals" they do not get updates. Most of what they learn is information from the media. I am lucky now, I have a doc who lifts. It took me a while to find one, but worth it.
this is definitely been my experience! I've heard and seen all sorts of doctors pushing the typical social media fads. Thankfully, my current GP has looked at my success and tells me to just keep doing what I'm doing Her only suggestion was on looking at ways to get more fresh fruits and vegetables at an affordable price, like joining up with a produce sharing group and things like that.
When my best friend had gall bladder surgery 18 months ago, I got into a conversation with the surgeon when he stopped by to check in on her, and he was pushing all the keto and Dr. Fung stuff.
I suppose its like my industry - I"m an electrical engineer; I"m not a mechanical engineer, or a civil engineer, or a chemical engineer. I might have taken a few classes on structures, but that doesn't qualify me to speak to the safety of a bridge's design. If an electrical cable is crossing that bridge, I can talk about that, but that's as far as my expertise goes.9 -
To more directly answer the question "why are people defending it" (and summarize many of the things people have said above), I think the main answers are:
(1) completely untrue things get said, and so many of us think they should be corrected;
(2) it's not really true that sugar has no nutritional benefits in that it provides energy, plus is often packaged with foods that do have nutritional benefits and has specific benefits for those engaging in certain types of exercise activity (for example, I used gels when running a marathon and training for it, and also during some olympic and half ironman distance triathlons and other foods containing added sugar); and
(3) even if added sugar had no other benefits, it is not harmful in moderate amounts within the context of a healthful diet (just as the sugar in fruit causes no harm), and therefore can help people enjoy their diet more and that's not a bad thing. As noted above, I don't have a big sweet tooth, so don't add sugar to food, but if someone finds that a bit of sugar makes their oats more tasty and them more satisfied or their coffee more delicious or enjoys a honey mustard dressing (and thus eats more vegetables) or improves a homemade tomato-based sauce, what harm is that? Why do people react to sugar unlike they react to many other foods that aren't particularly nutritious. I cook with oil or butter and no one asks me why that can be defended or like I should consider it a sinful thing that I do despite it being bad (as it seems you think of eating gummi bears). I didn't mention desserts, but I'd say that's basically the same -- if it's enjoyable and makes your diet overall more satisfying and sustainable, why is it necessary to cut out sugar or feel bad about eating it? The real question is the overall content of the diet as a whole.
I think a lot of people spend way too much time feeling bad about what they do eat and likely not enough time thinking about what they should eat. I find a diet with 10% of cals from added sugar, that is calorie appropriate and includes a lot of vegetables, sufficient protein, and some fruit, as well as plenty of fiber to be a MUCH BETTER diet, on average than one that may cut added sugar to almost 0 but contains very little vegetables or fruit. Thus, for most people I think the focus on just this one component to be oddly excessive.
Obviously one can eat excessive amounts of added sugar (usually with excessive amounts of cals and added fat), but no one defends eating excessive amounts of anything as a healthy practice (we might just disagree on what excessive is).14 -
I find a diet with 10% of cals from added sugar, that is calorie appropriate and includes a lot of vegetables, sufficient protein, and some fruit, as well as plenty of fiber to be a MUCH BETTER diet, on average than one that may cut added sugar to almost 0 but contains very little vegetables or fruit. Thus, for most people I think the focus on just this one component to be oddly excessive.
I agree....8 -
penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
What does that actually mean? If you eat sugar your veins will get leaky and fall apart from abrasion?
Also "processing" food is pretty vague, it covers so much. Butter is processed food, it doesn't come out of the cow like that. There are some processes that can be done to food that lowers their nutritional quality and increases their calorie density, and there are some processes that make food safe to eat.9 -
kshama2001 wrote: »purplebobkat wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »purplebobkat wrote: »Sugar (& other highly processed carbs) has no nutritional benefits, so why are so many people defending it?
Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.
So although a lot of people lose weight while keeping their sugar levels high, is this something to be applauded or a reason to defend sugar?purplebobkat wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »They can pry my fruit from my cold sticky hands!
Nothing wrong with fruit, it's an important source of many vitamins, minerals & fibre.
But fruit can also be a large source of sugar.
I'm not sure what you're saying here - that added sugar is bad, but inherent/naturally occurring sugar is fine?
How much added sugar is indefensible?- Are you with the WHO, which says people should keep their added sugar (which they call "free sugar") to 10% or less of their daily calories, with more health benefits realized if that is reduced to 5%? https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
- Or do you think ALL added sugar is bad?
I tried to keep added sugar at 5% for a while, which lead me to make weird sacrifices which were ultimately unsustainable to me. I probably do best at no more than 10% added sugar.
The problem with added sugar (for me) is that it can also come with lots of calories from fat (ex: ice cream), and often flour (ex: baked goods) and these calories crowd out room for foods that keep me satiated for less calories, like protein.
However, the 3 g of sugar I put in my tea 3 x per day and the 9 g of sugar in my chocolate protein powder, etc., is not a problem for me.
It's actually a really interesting question, of how much sugar is bad for you, and something that I can't see being answered anytime soon.
But my theory is that if it's eaten as a whole food (e.g. an apple) then that seems sensible, but when I eat Haribo that's not very sensible & I would never defend it as a good idea. Just something that I understand is bad for me & have eaten anyway.
I asked this question because I have been reading other posts on mfp today (Self isolating) and found a huge number of people almost attacking others for saying sugar is bad. I wondered why.
I believe there are athletes here who do eat foods like Haribo during endurance events. I would call that good
How many Haribos are bad? Surely one is ok? The serving size I see on a package on Amazon is 13 pieces/30 grams, which has 14 grams of sugar. I'm not sure I would call that bad either. However, if eating one Haribo led you to eat the entire bag (4.5 servings in this bag on Amazon) I have no problem labeling that bad for you.
Usually people do give nuanced answers like I've been doing here. But since this sugar topic comes up all the time, some posters may not include all the context, which may be giving you the impression that they are defending sugar without qualifications.
You don’t even have to be that good of an athlete to benefit from consuming sugar during endurance events. I use Clif blox which are basically straight sugar to fuel during long runs. My digestive system doesn’t need to be messing with the volume and fiber of a piece of fruit while my muscles are working hard. I love oranges, and eat them before shorter runs, but try eating a big juicy nutritious orange while working at your utmost limit and you are likely to be the winner of the portapotty dash!10 -
penny30030 wrote: »well sugar could be demonized, my daughters doctor told her sugar is like sandpaper in your veins. And, fruit sugar is not equal to processed granulated sugar, which is the culprit. Processing food is the problem.
Neither sugar nor processing food is the problem.
I would say seeing things in polarised extremes is the problem.
Interestingly a packet of table sugar lasts my household for a good 6 months, although we do eat plenty of already high sugar included foods - like cake or chocolate.
But I do not have a problem - my weight is stable ( yay! Calorie counting!) and I have no medical issues.
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In direct answer to OP I would say people defend sugar because other people like yourself attack it.
Or more correctly, they defend including sugar in a calorie appropriate balanced diet rather than demonising it as the enemy.
Context and dosage matter.20 -
paperpudding wrote: »In direct answer to OP I would say people defend sugar because other people like yourself attack it.
Or more correctly, they defend including sugar in a calorie appropriate balanced diet rather than demonising it as the enemy.
Context and dosage matter.
That is the best response.. you win.7 -
I admit to not reading the entire thread.
What proof does anyone have that you need every calorie you consume to be nutrient rich? More nutrients than you need equals more nutrients in your pee. So if you are medically required to control it why not enjoy a sugary snack if you have the calories available?
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paperpudding wrote: »In direct answer to OP I would say people defend sugar because other people like yourself attack it.
Or more correctly, they defend including sugar in a calorie appropriate balanced diet rather than demonising it as the enemy.
Context and dosage matter.
Exactly. The "defenses" of sugar I see are typically people pushing back against ridiculous claims.5 -
I admit to not reading the entire thread.
What proof does anyone have that you need every calorie you consume to be nutrient rich? More nutrients than you need equals more nutrients in your pee. So if you are medically required to control it why not enjoy a sugary snack if you have the calories available?
Obviously I meant unless you are medically required to control it.3
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