Coronavirus prep
Replies
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The zip code with the most cases also happens to be the "rich" part of town (finding a house for less than $500k is rare), which makes me wonder if the increased cases there are from people coming home from international trips, especially from Spring break a couple weeks ago.
That was the upshot of the piece I linked earlier about the Chicago burbs. Chicago itself has the most cases (but suburban Cook has more deaths so far), but some of the communities on the North Shore (rich areas with impressive hospitals) have even more diagnosed cases per population than Chicago, and the question was whether it's that those areas are getting more tests for obvious reasons, so more mild cases are being diagnosed (I suspect this is the real reason) or if it might be more people who had been traveling internationally. Of course, with O'Hare, Chicago as a whole is affected by international travel, and the city certainly is very interconnected internationally. And one of the perks of the nice North Shore burbs here is they tend to have easy metra travel to the city so you don't have to drive (which could obviously mean more opportunity for transmission). Although that is not unique to them, it is probably a higher percentage than other suburbanites.I'm beginning to remember why I stopped working from home 5 years ago. I've only been working from home now for 2 weeks, but I'm finding the lack of getting out and about and talking face to face with people depressing. I haven't been grocery shopping for 2 weeks and really do need to go - I'm out of several food items that I regularly use - but I'm loathe to go to the grocery store. The couple times I went out to get a few items for my grandmother were hellish - going from store to store to store trying to find basic items like milk, butter, flour.
Yeah, I also hate working from home for similar reasons, although I'm dealing okay so far. I normally would have hated the idea of Zoom but I get the benefits now. I did go grocery shopping today (the first time in about 2 weeks), and the grocery seemed normal (I went to a small local grocery but reports are that my closest chain and the closest TJs are also pretty normal).4 -
Great point a about language learning! Since moving to Mexico almost 2 years ago (and for some time before in preparation), I've been working at becoming more fluent in Spanish. So, I have more time to get better at it right now.
I have wanted to learn Welsh for years, but I don't do well with just being given a bunch of phrases like so many online tutorials do; I need to learn the grammar at the same time, but can't find any online classes in the US like that. Duolingo has it, I think, but its learn a bunch of phrases. I want to know how to form my own proper sentences so that if I need to say something that isn't a stock phrase, I can! that and I want to learn to read it as well as speak it. And its not exactly something I can just teach myself because while Welsh might use the same alphabet letters, they don't get pronounced the same, and a lot of those "this letter in language A sounds like this word in English" doesn't compute - I'm born and bread in West Virginia and we don't pronounce hardly anything like the rest of the English speaking world......3 -
Duolingo has it. I don't know if it's good, but worth a try as it's no cost. I've thought about it -- Welsh, Swedish, and German are languages I've considered (I studied French and Russian in school and learned some Spanish and Italian before trips). Ultimately I've done Swedish and German on Duolingo (and now German at a local learning center online), and would love to do Welsh too.
The phrases are often hilarious -- I know how to say, in German, "I am not pregnant, I am a man," and "the duck ran around the pig," among other silly things, but I do think they are teaching concepts in a way.4 -
I have to say it is now becoming annoying with grandmothers and grandfathers wanting to see their kiddos nd they cant just social distance...sorry, but it is what it is.
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Duolingo has it. I don't know if it's good, but worth a try as it's no cost. I've thought about it -- Welsh, Swedish, and German are languages I've considered (I studied French and Russian in school and learned some Spanish and Italian before trips). Ultimately I've done Swedish and German on Duolingo (and now German at a local learning center online), and would love to do Welsh too.
The phrases are often hilarious -- I know how to say, in German, "I am not pregnant, I am a man," and "the duck ran around the pig," among other silly things, but I do think they are teaching concepts in a way.
I tried learning Spanish with Duolingo since Spanish is as ubiquitous as English here. I should pick it up again, now that I'm home more. I found with the first go that there are some useful community features with Duolingo where you can get insight from native and non-native fluent speakers for questions not answered by the standard lessons. I also really liked they have lessons that incorporate listening and speaking.3 -
Duolingo has it. I don't know if it's good, but worth a try as it's no cost. I've thought about it -- Welsh, Swedish, and German are languages I've considered (I studied French and Russian in school and learned some Spanish and Italian before trips). Ultimately I've done Swedish and German on Duolingo (and now German at a local learning center online), and would love to do Welsh too.
The phrases are often hilarious -- I know how to say, in German, "I am not pregnant, I am a man," and "the duck ran around the pig," among other silly things, but I do think they are teaching concepts in a way.
I tried learning Spanish with Duolingo since Spanish is as ubiquitous as English here. I should pick it up again, now that I'm home more. I found with the first go that there are some useful community features with Duolingo where you can get insight from native and non-native fluent speakers for questions not answered by the standard lessons. I also really liked they have lessons that incorporate listening and speaking.
My dad lives in Mexico part of the year (just returned on Sunday), and he's been using Duolingo and likes it.4 -
snowflake954 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »
I assume that when you say it is not an airborne virus you mean that it is not aerosolized and sinks to surfaces very quickly, but without that explanation, I think saying it is not airborne can be misleading, ...
I would think people would know the difference. I'm not remotely a health care professional and I know the difference.
I have an MA in English, and I work adjacent to public safety. Before this pandemic, I was not aware of this distinction between airborne and aerosolized in the context of contagions.
M-W's definition of airborne is
1. done or being in the air : being off the ground: such as
a: carried through the air (as by an aircraft)
b: supported especially by aerodynamic forces or propelled through the air by force
(a plane becoming airborne)
c: transported or carried by the air
(airborne allergens)
Given that, I would simply have assumed aerosolized to be a synonym of airborne. Or, possibly, aerosolization is the process by which something becomes airborne.
I queried a few of my smart friends; they didn't know the difference either.
So I'm going to side with lynn_glenmont and say that this is confusing for many, if not most.
Thank you! I thought I was the only stupid one! I'm glad to know that the difference isn't obvious.
Even the experts don't agree, so none of us lay folk should feel stupid.
From the Atlantic today (April 1):Confusingly, in public-health circles, the word airborne has a technical meaning that’s not just “carried through the air.” When people are infected with respiratory viruses, they emit viral particles whenever they talk, breathe, cough, or sneeze. These particles are encased in globs of mucus, saliva, and water. Bigger globs fall faster than they evaporate, so they splash down nearby—these are traditionally called “droplets.” Smaller globs evaporate faster than they fall, leaving dried-out viruses that linger in the air and drift farther afield—these are called “aerosols.” When researchers say a virus is “airborne,” like measles or chickenpox, they mean that it moves as aerosols. When the World Health Organization asserts that the new coronavirus is “NOT airborne,” it’s claiming that the virus instead spreads primarily through the close-splashing droplets, which either land directly on people’s faces or are carried to their faces by unwashed, contaminated hands.
Such messaging is “really irresponsible,” argues Don Milton, an expert in aerosol transmission at the University of Maryland. The scientific community doesn’t even agree about whether aerosol transmission matters for the flu, so “to say that after three months we know for sure that this [new] virus is not airborne is … expletive deleted,” he says. Milton and other experts who study how viruses move through the air say that the traditional distinction between big, short-range droplets and small, long-range aerosols is based on outdated science. Lydia Bourouiba of MIT, for instance, has shown that exhalations, sneezes, and coughs unleash swirling, fast-moving clouds of both droplets and aerosols, which travel many meters farther than older studies predicted. Both kinds of glob also matter over shorter distances: Someone standing next to a person with COVID-19 is more likely to be splashed by droplets and to inhale aerosols.
ETA link to full story
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-airborne-go-outside-masks/609235/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=politics-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20200401&silverid-ref=MzEwMTkxNDc1NDIwS0
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I've followed this group since it's inception and it's such a great resource for all of us to compare what we know, what we think, and how to safeguard our families and loved ones.
I’m so grateful for Governor Newsome and our public health department for taking early mitigation steps and being honest with us about what we’re doing and what we can expect. I’m sure most of you have heard that CA is one of the states handling the CoronaVirus pretty well, all things considered, because we took steps early and are a state that could have been fairly devastated by lack of preparation.
I watch the stats in my county every day and also watch the governor’s briefings. In Riverside County, a population of about 2,425,000, we have to date 429 cases, 79 in Western Riverside where I live, and 13 deaths total in the county. The number of positives have doubled in 4.5 days which is a pretty lowish number compared to other parts of the country. Unfortunately, we’re still struggling here in CA with testing and results from testing. We have tests, but are short on swabs, and the results are lagging by as much as a week.
In CA overall, we’re approaching 10,000 confirmed cases and a little over 200 deaths.
What I’ve noticed from all the modeling is that when the hospitals are overrun and overwhelmed with serious/potentially deadly cases and lack of supplies, the number of deaths increase exponentially.
Our modeling here in the county shows us that by 4/12 we will reach our capacity of ICU beds, by 4/22 we will max out the number of hospital beds, and by 4/26 we will run out of ventilators. Hopefully, we’ve bought enough time here to change this curve by procuring more supplies, beds, and staff. If not, 1000+ folks here in my county will probably die by May 6.
I'm going to be 70 on Sunday and hubby will be 72 later this month, so we're essentially staying home, I haven't left the house in over 2 weeks except for a car drive last weekend to see the ocean. We stayed in the car and had a picnic........LOL
He shops for groceries once every 7 to 10 days and goes to the post office a few times a week (after it closes) to check for mail. We have a small home based business and quite a few customers who are probably closed owe us money. We may retire earlier than planned since things seem to point us in that direction. In order to do that we would have to sell our rental house (our retirement) in CA. We have a great tenant who is an essential worker so we don't want to do that to him of course.
Overall though, we feel lucky. I would love to see my kids and grandkids in SF and CO but we're FaceTiming and have group games and Happy Hour on Zoom.
Stay Safe World!
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Duolingo has it. I don't know if it's good, but worth a try as it's no cost. I've thought about it -- Welsh, Swedish, and German are languages I've considered (I studied French and Russian in school and learned some Spanish and Italian before trips). Ultimately I've done Swedish and German on Duolingo (and now German at a local learning center online), and would love to do Welsh too.
The phrases are often hilarious -- I know how to say, in German, "I am not pregnant, I am a man," and "the duck ran around the pig," among other silly things, but I do think they are teaching concepts in a way.
I might give it another try; I had looked at Duolingo but wasn't having much luck before. I tried a CD teach yourself course once. Just listening like that took me over a month to be able to repeat the phrases. They lost me on the second lesson.
Spanish is one language I've pretty much given up on, because no matter how hard I try, or how many variations of trying to learn how, I cannot trill my r's. I don't think the romance languages period are that easy to pronounce for me. Easier to learn the grammar, sure, but I have a time with some of the sounds. I can do a passible German ch and a somewhat passible Welsh ll, but forget tapped r's and trilled r's. Which is kind of funny because my best french can trill her r's all day long and speaks wonderful Spanish, but she can't do the gutteral sounds like "ch" at all, which frustrated her to no end when she was trying to learn Hebrew.
A classmate of mine from high school lost her husband the day before yesterday in a bad car accident. That's hard enough, but because of the virus and the lock down, they are only going to be able to do graveside rites (neither of hte funeral homes in this area are set up for live streaming). Its sad because they had 2 kids both under the age of 6. The pastor's wife is starting a round to have folks who normally would have been at the funeral to at least send sympathy cards. She would usually also put together a meal and have folks bring food for the family, but with the stay at home orders, I'm not sure if she'll be able to do that.9 -
@Ruatine yep!!! You nailed it! Same in Austin. Highest rates are in the 78646 (mine) and closer to downtown, the wealthiest area. It’s spring breakers and families. A huge group of UT students went to Cabo and have since come back , tested positive and are back in their homes either at college or with families, spreading it.7
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Checking in from the bottom of the world. Here are New Zealand's latest stats
We're on Day 8 of lockdown, and as I've said previously, lockdown really does mean lockdown here. Everything is closed except supermarkets, pharmacies, medical centres, petrol stations, and dairies (convenience stores). We are expected to stay local if going out for a walk etc, only go to supermarket when we really need to. Supermarkets have a one out/one in system to limit the number of people in store, markings on floor for checkout to show distancing, shields for the checkout operators, and we pack out own groceries. Dairies can only have one customer in at a time (many are very small). The rules on essential items were relaxed a little early this week, so some things are now able to be ordered online for contactless delivery, mostly it's things like appliances, home office needs, winter clothing and bedding, etc (though I may have just ordered curling mousse to aid my apocalypse project of encouraging my hair to curl
I'm not quite sure how that qualifies as essential, but I'll go with it!). Most people are adhering to the rules very well. People who aren't get an initial friend chat from the police to explain the requirements, repeat offenders get to visit a cell (has only happened a few times). I think one person has now been prosecuted for repeatedly being a dick.
I did a supermarket shop this morning, my first trip out other than my usual close to home walks, and it was very surreal with queues at the supermarket, made more so by the fact my little town's testing caravan is set up right opposite one of the supermarkets. I can report that toilet paper was in plentiful supply. Like, overkill plentiful supply. I should have taken photos of the multiple stacks around the place.
It's very interesting reading everyone here's posts. i honestly don't know that NZ's hardcore approach would have a hope in hell of being accepted in the US.
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Another observation about cognitive style:
Everyone here knows that guidance on the usefulness of masks in the general population has been shifting.
I'm interpreting this as a sign of the intensive high-speed research going on, and new results constantly coming out from it, looking at how the virus can be transmitted (theoretically), how it actually is commonly transmitted in practical terms, how long it persists in viable form on varying surfaces under varying conditions, how the human factors affect mask use (like, do people touch their face more because masks shift around, do people shift behavior in a riskier direction with protective gear, do people use masks correctly or in ways that make things worse (reuse, unsanitary handling, wearing until wet from breath, and more), etc.), what the effect of masks is on getting the virus is vs. transmitting it to others, concern about mask supplies if there's a public run on the supply, what implications the viral load question has in this context, and so forth.
Some of my friends (on other social networks) seem to be taking the shifting advice about masks as a sign that experts are flip-floppers who can't agree or even make up their minds, are probably hiding something from us, or - at an extreme, among those few friends who never met a conspiracy theory that doesn't appeal to them - even are tricking us because they want us to get sick and die.
Yes, my friend/relative set is very diverse. Right now, that's even a little scarier than usual.15 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Duolingo has it. I don't know if it's good, but worth a try as it's no cost. I've thought about it -- Welsh, Swedish, and German are languages I've considered (I studied French and Russian in school and learned some Spanish and Italian before trips). Ultimately I've done Swedish and German on Duolingo (and now German at a local learning center online), and would love to do Welsh too.
The phrases are often hilarious -- I know how to say, in German, "I am not pregnant, I am a man," and "the duck ran around the pig," among other silly things, but I do think they are teaching concepts in a way.
I might give it another try; I had looked at Duolingo but wasn't having much luck before. I tried a CD teach yourself course once. Just listening like that took me over a month to be able to repeat the phrases. They lost me on the second lesson.
Spanish is one language I've pretty much given up on, because no matter how hard I try, or how many variations of trying to learn how, I cannot trill my r's. I don't think the romance languages period are that easy to pronounce for me. Easier to learn the grammar, sure, but I have a time with some of the sounds. I can do a passible German ch and a somewhat passible Welsh ll, but forget tapped r's and trilled r's. Which is kind of funny because my best french can trill her r's all day long and speaks wonderful Spanish, but she can't do the gutteral sounds like "ch" at all, which frustrated her to no end when she was trying to learn Hebrew.
A classmate of mine from high school lost her husband the day before yesterday in a bad car accident. That's hard enough, but because of the virus and the lock down, they are only going to be able to do graveside rites (neither of hte funeral homes in this area are set up for live streaming). Its sad because they had 2 kids both under the age of 6. The pastor's wife is starting a round to have folks who normally would have been at the funeral to at least send sympathy cards. She would usually also put together a meal and have folks bring food for the family, but with the stay at home orders, I'm not sure if she'll be able to do that.
Hon, I can't trill my "rr's" after 36 years in Italy. They still understand me. I still have an "American" accent. Don't let that hold you back from learning a language. If people can understand you, you're doing great. It's difficult to speak like a native, unless you've learned the language as a child. One thing we've noticed here is that Slavic language speakers, such as Polish, Russian, etc, learn to speak Italian even as adults with no accent. My husband is constantly amazed.10 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Checking in from the bottom of the world. Here are New Zealand's latest stats
We're on Day 8 of lockdown, and as I've said previously, lockdown really does mean lockdown here. Everything is closed except supermarkets, pharmacies, medical centres, petrol stations, and dairies (convenience stores). We are expected to stay local if going out for a walk etc, only go to supermarket when we really need to. Supermarkets have a one out/one in system to limit the number of people in store, markings on floor for checkout to show distancing, shields for the checkout operators, and we pack out own groceries. Dairies can only have one customer in at a time (many are very small). The rules on essential items were relaxed a little early this week, so some things are now able to be ordered online for contactless delivery, mostly it's things like appliances, home office needs, winter clothing and bedding, etc (though I may have just ordered curling mousse to aid my apocalypse project of encouraging my hair to curl I'm not quite sure how that qualifies as essential, but I'll go with it!). Most people are adhering to the rules very well. People who aren't get an initial friend chat from the police to explain the requirements, repeat offenders get to visit a cell (has only happened a few times). I think one person has now been prosecuted for repeatedly being a dick.
I did a supermarket shop this morning, my first trip out other than my usual close to home walks, and it was very surreal with queues at the supermarket, made more so by the fact my little town's testing caravan is set up right opposite one of the supermarkets. I can report that toilet paper was in plentiful supply. Like, overkill plentiful supply. I should have taken photos of the multiple stacks around the place.
It's very interesting reading everyone here's posts. i honestly don't know that NZ's hardcore approach would have a hope in hell of being accepted in the US.
Full lockdown does work. New cases here have been declining for the past few days despite increased testing efforts.
11 -
Another observation about cognitive style:
Everyone here knows that guidance on the usefulness of masks in the general population has been shifting.
I'm interpreting this as a sign of the intensive high-speed research going on, and new results constantly coming out from it, looking at how the virus can be transmitted (theoretically), how it actually is commonly transmitted in practical terms, how long it persists in viable form on varying surfaces under varying conditions, how the human factors affect mask use (like, do people touch their face more because masks shift around, do people shift behavior in a riskier direction with protective gear, do people use masks correctly or in ways that make things worse (reuse, unsanitary handling, wearing until wet from breath, and more), etc.), what the effect of masks is on getting the virus is vs. transmitting it to others, concern about mask supplies if there's a public run on the supply, what implications the viral load question has in this context, and so forth.
Some of my friends (on other social networks) seem to be taking the shifting advice about masks as a sign that experts are flip-floppers who can't agree or even make up their minds, are probably hiding something from us, or - at an extreme, among those few friends who never met a conspiracy theory that doesn't appeal to them - even are tricking us because they want us to get sick and die.
Yes, my friend/relative set is very diverse. Right now, that's even a little scarier than usual.
I think that (1) the importance of trying to ensure that supplies of medical masks were not bought up and hoarded by the general public caused a lot of the messaging aimed at achieving that end to be skewed and obviously counterintuitive ("Wait, they're saying masks can protect doctors and nurses but they don't work to protect the rest of us? What?") which in turn made it difficult for some people to trust that message and (2) despite the importance of flattening the curve, those managing the message that the general public shouldn't be wearing masks completely overlooked the value of masks in helping keep the asympomatic, presymptomatic, and the mildly symptomatic from passing the disease on.
If someone knows better than me, please correct me, but my impression is that medical personnel in operating rooms wear surgical masks to keep from infecting the patient they're cutting open, not generally to protect themselves from whatever the patient might have.
I don't think the prime thing that is changing the message is new evidence that changes the best practice.
I think the prime thing that is changing the message is that those managing the message are finally waking up to (2) above and the fact that we ought to be assuming that everyone, including ourselves, is infected.10 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Checking in from the bottom of the world. Here are New Zealand's latest stats
We're on Day 8 of lockdown, and as I've said previously, lockdown really does mean lockdown here. Everything is closed except supermarkets, pharmacies, medical centres, petrol stations, and dairies (convenience stores). We are expected to stay local if going out for a walk etc, only go to supermarket when we really need to. Supermarkets have a one out/one in system to limit the number of people in store, markings on floor for checkout to show distancing, shields for the checkout operators, and we pack out own groceries. Dairies can only have one customer in at a time (many are very small). The rules on essential items were relaxed a little early this week, so some things are now able to be ordered online for contactless delivery, mostly it's things like appliances, home office needs, winter clothing and bedding, etc (though I may have just ordered curling mousse to aid my apocalypse project of encouraging my hair to curl I'm not quite sure how that qualifies as essential, but I'll go with it!). Most people are adhering to the rules very well. People who aren't get an initial friend chat from the police to explain the requirements, repeat offenders get to visit a cell (has only happened a few times). I think one person has now been prosecuted for repeatedly being a dick.
I did a supermarket shop this morning, my first trip out other than my usual close to home walks, and it was very surreal with queues at the supermarket, made more so by the fact my little town's testing caravan is set up right opposite one of the supermarkets. I can report that toilet paper was in plentiful supply. Like, overkill plentiful supply. I should have taken photos of the multiple stacks around the place.
It's very interesting reading everyone here's posts. i honestly don't know that NZ's hardcore approach would have a hope in hell of being accepted in the US.
Full lockdown does work. New cases here have been declining for the past few days despite increased testing efforts.
Yep, we're hoping to start seeing a decrease in new cases in a few days.3 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Duolingo has it. I don't know if it's good, but worth a try as it's no cost. I've thought about it -- Welsh, Swedish, and German are languages I've considered (I studied French and Russian in school and learned some Spanish and Italian before trips). Ultimately I've done Swedish and German on Duolingo (and now German at a local learning center online), and would love to do Welsh too.
The phrases are often hilarious -- I know how to say, in German, "I am not pregnant, I am a man," and "the duck ran around the pig," among other silly things, but I do think they are teaching concepts in a way.
I might give it another try; I had looked at Duolingo but wasn't having much luck before. I tried a CD teach yourself course once. Just listening like that took me over a month to be able to repeat the phrases. They lost me on the second lesson.
Spanish is one language I've pretty much given up on, because no matter how hard I try, or how many variations of trying to learn how, I cannot trill my r's. I don't think the romance languages period are that easy to pronounce for me. Easier to learn the grammar, sure, but I have a time with some of the sounds. I can do a passible German ch and a somewhat passible Welsh ll, but forget tapped r's and trilled r's. Which is kind of funny because my best french can trill her r's all day long and speaks wonderful Spanish, but she can't do the gutteral sounds like "ch" at all, which frustrated her to no end when she was trying to learn Hebrew.
A classmate of mine from high school lost her husband the day before yesterday in a bad car accident. That's hard enough, but because of the virus and the lock down, they are only going to be able to do graveside rites (neither of hte funeral homes in this area are set up for live streaming). Its sad because they had 2 kids both under the age of 6. The pastor's wife is starting a round to have folks who normally would have been at the funeral to at least send sympathy cards. She would usually also put together a meal and have folks bring food for the family, but with the stay at home orders, I'm not sure if she'll be able to do that.
Not sure if it's what you're looking for, but the BBC has a basic welsch grammar document, downloadable for free:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/pdf/welshgrammar_allrules.pdf
It won't teach you much vocabulary or how to speak it, but it'll teach you how it's build up
Reminds me that now would be the time to get back to Japanese. Although I still have quite the workload coming up for my studies. Worse than my work workload...4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Checking in from the bottom of the world. Here are New Zealand's latest stats
We're on Day 8 of lockdown, and as I've said previously, lockdown really does mean lockdown here. Everything is closed except supermarkets, pharmacies, medical centres, petrol stations, and dairies (convenience stores). We are expected to stay local if going out for a walk etc, only go to supermarket when we really need to. Supermarkets have a one out/one in system to limit the number of people in store, markings on floor for checkout to show distancing, shields for the checkout operators, and we pack out own groceries. Dairies can only have one customer in at a time (many are very small). The rules on essential items were relaxed a little early this week, so some things are now able to be ordered online for contactless delivery, mostly it's things like appliances, home office needs, winter clothing and bedding, etc (though I may have just ordered curling mousse to aid my apocalypse project of encouraging my hair to curl I'm not quite sure how that qualifies as essential, but I'll go with it!). Most people are adhering to the rules very well. People who aren't get an initial friend chat from the police to explain the requirements, repeat offenders get to visit a cell (has only happened a few times). I think one person has now been prosecuted for repeatedly being a dick.
I did a supermarket shop this morning, my first trip out other than my usual close to home walks, and it was very surreal with queues at the supermarket, made more so by the fact my little town's testing caravan is set up right opposite one of the supermarkets. I can report that toilet paper was in plentiful supply. Like, overkill plentiful supply. I should have taken photos of the multiple stacks around the place.
It's very interesting reading everyone here's posts. i honestly don't know that NZ's hardcore approach would have a hope in hell of being accepted in the US.
Full lockdown does work. New cases here have been declining for the past few days despite increased testing efforts.
Yep, we're hoping to start seeing a decrease in new cases in a few days.
To be fair, this may just be the result of the few days of full curfew we had earlier and we may start seeing a slight increase in cases later before further decrease. Although not as good as full curfew, a full lockdown is the next best thing.
I wish it would mutate to become less deadly. A large percentage of the infected were elderly and it's sad to see. Some are doing better than others. A woman spread the infection to her family and she lost both her grandmother and her father in one week.10 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Checking in from the bottom of the world. Here are New Zealand's latest stats
We're on Day 8 of lockdown, and as I've said previously, lockdown really does mean lockdown here. Everything is closed except supermarkets, pharmacies, medical centres, petrol stations, and dairies (convenience stores). We are expected to stay local if going out for a walk etc, only go to supermarket when we really need to. Supermarkets have a one out/one in system to limit the number of people in store, markings on floor for checkout to show distancing, shields for the checkout operators, and we pack out own groceries. Dairies can only have one customer in at a time (many are very small). The rules on essential items were relaxed a little early this week, so some things are now able to be ordered online for contactless delivery, mostly it's things like appliances, home office needs, winter clothing and bedding, etc (though I may have just ordered curling mousse to aid my apocalypse project of encouraging my hair to curl I'm not quite sure how that qualifies as essential, but I'll go with it!). Most people are adhering to the rules very well. People who aren't get an initial friend chat from the police to explain the requirements, repeat offenders get to visit a cell (has only happened a few times). I think one person has now been prosecuted for repeatedly being a dick.
I did a supermarket shop this morning, my first trip out other than my usual close to home walks, and it was very surreal with queues at the supermarket, made more so by the fact my little town's testing caravan is set up right opposite one of the supermarkets. I can report that toilet paper was in plentiful supply. Like, overkill plentiful supply. I should have taken photos of the multiple stacks around the place.
It's very interesting reading everyone here's posts. i honestly don't know that NZ's hardcore approach would have a hope in hell of being accepted in the US.
Full lockdown does work. New cases here have been declining for the past few days despite increased testing efforts.
Yep, we're hoping to start seeing a decrease in new cases in a few days.
To be fair, this may just be the result of the few days of full curfew we had earlier and we may start seeing a slight increase in cases later before further decrease. Although not as good as full curfew, a full lockdown is the next best thing.
I wish it would mutate to become less deadly. A large percentage of the infected were elderly and it's sad to see. Some are doing better than others. A woman spread the infection to her family and she lost both her grandmother and her father in one week.
We've been fortunate so far to just have the one death, and two ICU cases (both of whom are now stable).
We had a wee downtick for a few days, but that's been attributed to less testing over the weekend. Not because testing isn't available, but I think people not realising it is. The very clear message now is test, test, test, and all reference to overseas travel or connection to a known case has been removed from the testing criteria. There were people obviously being tested at the facility in my town today.
I suspect our lockdown may go longer than the initial four weeks proposed (and it has been made clear from the beginning that that may be the case), the plan here is very much to keep it as suppressed as possible, so they want to see the numbers right down before easing back to a lower alert level (and different parts of the country may be on different levels from others, depending on numbers of cases in that region). Then if numbers increase, we ramp up again. Effectively, we're going to oscillate in and out of varying degrees of restriction until a vaccine is available. Yes, really. If you look at the chart on the last page of this link, we're going for the squiggly green line. So don't make any plans to visit New Zealand for a while! https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/52SCEP_EVI_96420_EP18/1b89a81ce848cbeb471631b68c878304e70b3dc26 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Checking in from the bottom of the world. Here are New Zealand's latest stats
We're on Day 8 of lockdown, and as I've said previously, lockdown really does mean lockdown here. Everything is closed except supermarkets, pharmacies, medical centres, petrol stations, and dairies (convenience stores). We are expected to stay local if going out for a walk etc, only go to supermarket when we really need to. Supermarkets have a one out/one in system to limit the number of people in store, markings on floor for checkout to show distancing, shields for the checkout operators, and we pack out own groceries. Dairies can only have one customer in at a time (many are very small). The rules on essential items were relaxed a little early this week, so some things are now able to be ordered online for contactless delivery, mostly it's things like appliances, home office needs, winter clothing and bedding, etc (though I may have just ordered curling mousse to aid my apocalypse project of encouraging my hair to curl I'm not quite sure how that qualifies as essential, but I'll go with it!). Most people are adhering to the rules very well. People who aren't get an initial friend chat from the police to explain the requirements, repeat offenders get to visit a cell (has only happened a few times). I think one person has now been prosecuted for repeatedly being a dick.
I did a supermarket shop this morning, my first trip out other than my usual close to home walks, and it was very surreal with queues at the supermarket, made more so by the fact my little town's testing caravan is set up right opposite one of the supermarkets. I can report that toilet paper was in plentiful supply. Like, overkill plentiful supply. I should have taken photos of the multiple stacks around the place.
It's very interesting reading everyone here's posts. i honestly don't know that NZ's hardcore approach would have a hope in hell of being accepted in the US.
Full lockdown does work. New cases here have been declining for the past few days despite increased testing efforts.
Yep, we're hoping to start seeing a decrease in new cases in a few days.
To be fair, this may just be the result of the few days of full curfew we had earlier and we may start seeing a slight increase in cases later before further decrease. Although not as good as full curfew, a full lockdown is the next best thing.
I wish it would mutate to become less deadly. A large percentage of the infected were elderly and it's sad to see. Some are doing better than others. A woman spread the infection to her family and she lost both her grandmother and her father in one week.
We've been fortunate so far to just have the one death, and two ICU cases (both of whom are now stable).
We had a wee downtick for a few days, but that's been attributed to less testing over the weekend. Not because testing isn't available, but I think people not realising it is. The very clear message now is test, test, test, and all reference to overseas travel or connection to a known case has been removed from the testing criteria. There were people obviously being tested at the facility in my town today.
I suspect our lockdown may go longer than the initial four weeks proposed (and it has been made clear from the beginning that that may be the case), the plan here is very much to keep it as suppressed as possible, so they want to see the numbers right down before easing back to a lower alert level (and different parts of the country may be on different levels from others, depending on numbers of cases in that region). Then if numbers increase, we ramp up again. Effectively, we're going to oscillate in and out of varying degrees of restriction until a vaccine is available. Yes, really. If you look at the chart on the last page of this link, we're going for the squiggly green line. So don't make any plans to visit New Zealand for a while! https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/52SCEP_EVI_96420_EP18/1b89a81ce848cbeb471631b68c878304e70b3dc2
Same here. They're even having a single day of full curfew this Friday to facilitate testing (the testing teams are going door to door testing everyone who may have come in contact with any of the current cases). If and once the number of new cases reaches 0, the next step will be a gradually wider area sweep. Currently, all governates are isolated, and certain areas are isolated from the rest of the city. Few people have permits to use cars.
I'm impressed. The country is not rich and this will take a huge toll, but they're prioritizing health.9 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Checking in from the bottom of the world. Here are New Zealand's latest stats
We're on Day 8 of lockdown, and as I've said previously, lockdown really does mean lockdown here. Everything is closed except supermarkets, pharmacies, medical centres, petrol stations, and dairies (convenience stores). We are expected to stay local if going out for a walk etc, only go to supermarket when we really need to. Supermarkets have a one out/one in system to limit the number of people in store, markings on floor for checkout to show distancing, shields for the checkout operators, and we pack out own groceries. Dairies can only have one customer in at a time (many are very small). The rules on essential items were relaxed a little early this week, so some things are now able to be ordered online for contactless delivery, mostly it's things like appliances, home office needs, winter clothing and bedding, etc (though I may have just ordered curling mousse to aid my apocalypse project of encouraging my hair to curl I'm not quite sure how that qualifies as essential, but I'll go with it!). Most people are adhering to the rules very well. People who aren't get an initial friend chat from the police to explain the requirements, repeat offenders get to visit a cell (has only happened a few times). I think one person has now been prosecuted for repeatedly being a dick.
I did a supermarket shop this morning, my first trip out other than my usual close to home walks, and it was very surreal with queues at the supermarket, made more so by the fact my little town's testing caravan is set up right opposite one of the supermarkets. I can report that toilet paper was in plentiful supply. Like, overkill plentiful supply. I should have taken photos of the multiple stacks around the place.
It's very interesting reading everyone here's posts. i honestly don't know that NZ's hardcore approach would have a hope in hell of being accepted in the US.
Full lockdown does work. New cases here have been declining for the past few days despite increased testing efforts.
Yep, we're hoping to start seeing a decrease in new cases in a few days.
To be fair, this may just be the result of the few days of full curfew we had earlier and we may start seeing a slight increase in cases later before further decrease. Although not as good as full curfew, a full lockdown is the next best thing.
I wish it would mutate to become less deadly. A large percentage of the infected were elderly and it's sad to see. Some are doing better than others. A woman spread the infection to her family and she lost both her grandmother and her father in one week.
We've been fortunate so far to just have the one death, and two ICU cases (both of whom are now stable).
We had a wee downtick for a few days, but that's been attributed to less testing over the weekend. Not because testing isn't available, but I think people not realising it is. The very clear message now is test, test, test, and all reference to overseas travel or connection to a known case has been removed from the testing criteria. There were people obviously being tested at the facility in my town today.
I suspect our lockdown may go longer than the initial four weeks proposed (and it has been made clear from the beginning that that may be the case), the plan here is very much to keep it as suppressed as possible, so they want to see the numbers right down before easing back to a lower alert level (and different parts of the country may be on different levels from others, depending on numbers of cases in that region). Then if numbers increase, we ramp up again. Effectively, we're going to oscillate in and out of varying degrees of restriction until a vaccine is available. Yes, really. If you look at the chart on the last page of this link, we're going for the squiggly green line. So don't make any plans to visit New Zealand for a while! https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/52SCEP_EVI_96420_EP18/1b89a81ce848cbeb471631b68c878304e70b3dc2
Same here. They're even having a single day of full curfew this Friday to facilitate testing (the testing teams are going door to door testing everyone who may have come in contact with any of the current cases). If and once the number of new cases reaches 0, the next step will be a gradually wider area sweep. Currently, all governates are isolated, and certain areas are isolated from the rest of the city. Few people have permits to use cars.
I'm impressed. The country is not rich and this will take a huge toll, but they're prioritizing health.
NZ was fortunately in pretty good financial shape going into this, it will still take a massive toll though - huge amounts of money going to wage subsidies, helping businesses in other ways, funding for infrastructure projects that are 'shovel ready'...the government coffers are going to be running on fumes. But people's lives come first.7 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Another observation about cognitive style:
Everyone here knows that guidance on the usefulness of masks in the general population has been shifting.
I'm interpreting this as a sign of the intensive high-speed research going on, and new results constantly coming out from it, looking at how the virus can be transmitted (theoretically), how it actually is commonly transmitted in practical terms, how long it persists in viable form on varying surfaces under varying conditions, how the human factors affect mask use (like, do people touch their face more because masks shift around, do people shift behavior in a riskier direction with protective gear, do people use masks correctly or in ways that make things worse (reuse, unsanitary handling, wearing until wet from breath, and more), etc.), what the effect of masks is on getting the virus is vs. transmitting it to others, concern about mask supplies if there's a public run on the supply, what implications the viral load question has in this context, and so forth.
Some of my friends (on other social networks) seem to be taking the shifting advice about masks as a sign that experts are flip-floppers who can't agree or even make up their minds, are probably hiding something from us, or - at an extreme, among those few friends who never met a conspiracy theory that doesn't appeal to them - even are tricking us because they want us to get sick and die.
Yes, my friend/relative set is very diverse. Right now, that's even a little scarier than usual.
I think that (1) the importance of trying to ensure that supplies of medical masks were not bought up and hoarded by the general public caused a lot of the messaging aimed at achieving that end to be skewed and obviously counterintuitive ("Wait, they're saying masks can protect doctors and nurses but they don't work to protect the rest of us? What?") which in turn made it difficult for some people to trust that message and (2) despite the importance of flattening the curve, those managing the message that the general public shouldn't be wearing masks completely overlooked the value of masks in helping keep the asympomatic, presymptomatic, and the mildly symptomatic from passing the disease on.
If someone knows better than me, please correct me, but my impression is that medical personnel in operating rooms wear surgical masks to keep from infecting the patient they're cutting open, not generally to protect themselves from whatever the patient might have.
I don't think the prime thing that is changing the message is new evidence that changes the best practice.
I think the prime thing that is changing the message is that those managing the message are finally waking up to (2) above and the fact that we ought to be assuming that everyone, including ourselves, is infected.
I don't disagree with you about the thrust of the messaging, or that it likely initially had a manipulative component.
I can't give you cites because my source was listening to NPR and BBC on radio, but I believe there's a new study out in just the last few days showing potentially-infecting particles from coughs/sneezes traveling much farther than previously thought (like twice as far), plus some fairly new information about the nature of virus shedding by people who are still asymptomatic.0 -
NZ is handling this well, so are a lot of US states, but please consider this. The total population is less than most of the large cities in the US with the majority of the cases. Being sparsely populated, which supports the social distancing that’s taking place worldwide) is an advantage in fighting this disease. That’s an advantage NZ, and US states, with smaller, more sparsely populated areas have. It can slow the spread, but no one knows what the end results will show.
The difference is, the enforcing of the policies, and getting people to understand what not complying can do. It’s a selfish attitude. Many people think only of their personal freedom, not believing they are at risk of spreading the disease. They are wrong.12 -
missysippy930 wrote: »NZ is handling this well, so are a lot of US states, but please consider this. The total population is less than most of the large cities in the US with the majority of the cases. Being sparsely populated, which supports the social distancing that’s taking place worldwide) is an advantage in fighting this disease. That’s an advantage NZ, and US states, with smaller, more sparsely populated areas have. It can slow the spread, but no one knows what the end results will show.
The difference is, the enforcing of the policies, and getting people to understand what not complying can do. It’s a selfish attitude. Many people think only of their personal freedom, not believing they are at risk of spreading the disease. They are wrong.
Your last paragraph especially is so very very true. I hope more start to realise how many this is killing over there in USA
Thinking of you all. We have very few here so far but I'm sure it'll get worse yet. 5 -
Adam Schlesinger, the guy who wrote all the music for “Crazy ex-girlfriend,” just died of Coronavirus at the age of 52.6
-
missysippy930 wrote: »NZ is handling this well, so are a lot of US states, but please consider this. The total population is less than most of the large cities in the US with the majority of the cases. Being sparsely populated, which supports the social distancing that’s taking place worldwide) is an advantage in fighting this disease. That’s an advantage NZ, and US states, with smaller, more sparsely populated areas have. It can slow the spread, but no one knows what the end results will show.
The difference is, the enforcing of the policies, and getting people to understand what not complying can do. It’s a selfish attitude. Many people think only of their personal freedom, not believing they are at risk of spreading the disease. They are wrong.
Oh I am well aware that we are advantaged by our smaller and more spread out population! The way in which the message to stay home is being delivered here is very key in getting buy in: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/120696983/coronavirus-why-the-pms-repeated-stay-at-home-message-appears-to-be-working
Other than a very small percentage, our policies aren't actually having to be enforced. We kind of all just said a collective 'yep, okay' to the stay at home message. And even that initial police contact with people who seem to be where they shouldn't be or not distancing is literally a friendly chat.6 -
missysippy930 wrote: »NZ is handling this well, so are a lot of US states, but please consider this. The total population is less than most of the large cities in the US with the majority of the cases. Being sparsely populated, which supports the social distancing that’s taking place worldwide) is an advantage in fighting this disease. That’s an advantage NZ, and US states, with smaller, more sparsely populated areas have. It can slow the spread, but no one knows what the end results will show.
The difference is, the enforcing of the policies, and getting people to understand what not complying can do. It’s a selfish attitude. Many people think only of their personal freedom, not believing they are at risk of spreading the disease. They are wrong.
Your last paragraph especially is so very very true. I hope more start to realise how many this is killing over there in USA Thinking of you all. We have very few here so far but I'm sure it'll get worse yet.
The last paragraph is very true. There are people who either don't care, don't believe it's a problem, or think it would never happen to them (optimism bias). These people make things worse, no matter how well a country or a state is handling things.3 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »NZ is handling this well, so are a lot of US states, but please consider this. The total population is less than most of the large cities in the US with the majority of the cases. Being sparsely populated, which supports the social distancing that’s taking place worldwide) is an advantage in fighting this disease. That’s an advantage NZ, and US states, with smaller, more sparsely populated areas have. It can slow the spread, but no one knows what the end results will show.
The difference is, the enforcing of the policies, and getting people to understand what not complying can do. It’s a selfish attitude. Many people think only of their personal freedom, not believing they are at risk of spreading the disease. They are wrong.
Oh I am well aware that we are advantaged by our smaller and more spread out population! The way in which the message to stay home is being delivered here is very key in getting buy in: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/120696983/coronavirus-why-the-pms-repeated-stay-at-home-message-appears-to-be-working
Other than a very small percentage, our policies aren't actually having to be enforced. We kind of all just said a collective 'yep, okay' to the stay at home message. And even that initial police contact with people who seem to be where they shouldn't be or not distancing is literally a friendly chat.
Sadly, that's not the case here. Although many are acting responsibly, there is a good percentage of people who look at the numbers and think "this isn't bad compared to other places" and don't take things seriously. For example, we have no confirmed cases in our city and that's giving people a false sense of security. Just because we don't have any official numbers doesn't mean there aren't people who are not showing symptoms or people who are showing mild symptoms and not reporting.9 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »NZ is handling this well, so are a lot of US states, but please consider this. The total population is less than most of the large cities in the US with the majority of the cases. Being sparsely populated, which supports the social distancing that’s taking place worldwide) is an advantage in fighting this disease. That’s an advantage NZ, and US states, with smaller, more sparsely populated areas have. It can slow the spread, but no one knows what the end results will show.
The difference is, the enforcing of the policies, and getting people to understand what not complying can do. It’s a selfish attitude. Many people think only of their personal freedom, not believing they are at risk of spreading the disease. They are wrong.
Your last paragraph especially is so very very true. I hope more start to realise how many this is killing over there in USA Thinking of you all. We have very few here so far but I'm sure it'll get worse yet.
The last paragraph is very true. There are people who either don't care, don't believe it's a problem, or think it would never happen to them (optimism bias). These people make things worse, no matter how well a country or a state is handling things.
Ugh, my sister isn't getting out much these days(like everybody else!) so you know her circle of contacts is very small. But she had a tech in to try and fix her washer, and she dropped her car off at the mechanic. Both are calling the virus and peoples' reactions, a hoax. Two people in less than a week, probably out of 4 people(if that) in all. Heaven help us if that percentage doesn't believe this thing is real. 6 -
snowflake954 wrote: »
Hon, I can't trill my "rr's" after 36 years in Italy. They still understand me. I still have an "American" accent. Don't let that hold you back from learning a language. If people can understand you, you're doing great. It's difficult to speak like a native, unless you've learned the language as a child. One thing we've noticed here is that Slavic language speakers, such as Polish, Russian, etc, learn to speak Italian even as adults with no accent. My husband is constantly amazed.
I had Spanish in high school, but it was a video class and we never actually had conversation time or someone to listen to correct our pronunciations. Coming out of those classes, I could read Spanish fairly well, write in it ok, but still couldn't really speak it or follow a conversation in it. And now that its been over 20 years ago, I can't even do those things any more lol
What is it about the Russian language that allows them to learn other languages flawlessly? I know, that's just my perception, but it does seem to me that they can learn how to sound like a native in a lot of other languages. It's like Germans who can speak American English just like a native, though I can at least get how Germans learn to do that - both languages are from the same root language, at least - but Russian and the other Slavic languages split from the Romance languages a very, very long time ago and are radically different, so I'm amazed at their ability, too alongside your husband!3
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