Coronavirus prep
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@AnnPT77 my first thought is that expecting people who are upset about the lockdown to show up but adhere to all those rules is... unrealistic. Those looking for the quarantine to end most likely feel the costs outweight the benefit because they think the risks are overblown in the first place.
Also I've never been in gridlock traffic where it was easy to get out of the way of emergency vehicles. I would hope that even with good intentions they don't end up slowing down any such vehicles. Not knowing the area though I'm not sure if there's any real danger of that.
Considering how universally annoying sitting in traffic is, I'm curious how many people will voluntarily put themselves into a purposeful traffic jam in order to theoretically make a point!
Personally, I think the extra risks of drawing people together like that, possible accidents, crowds forming, frustrated drivers, extra work for law enforcement etc is a bad idea.
As background:
Traffic jams are not normally a big deal here, unless an accident/closure/road conditions back things up temporarily. There are two high-travel freeway segments in the city that have very short quasi-traffic jams (mostly slowdowns) at rush hours (I'd say for less than half an hour twice a day), without some unusual conditions. I believe they intend to head toward the capitol building, which is surrounded by 2 to 4 lane surface roads, some of them one-way. If there are enough cars, it will be possible to create gridlock there, especially when intending to do that.
I know some people who've implied that they will go to this (by posting positive things about it in social media). I didn't try to confirm their plans.
If I learn anything useful about how popular/well-attended this was, or how people behaved, I'll report back after the fact, if it makes sense, assuming there's politically-neutral information that can be shared. If it turns out to be heavily-attended, I'd be surprised if there wasn't national coverage.
Like you, I am not taking a position on any political issues, but there have been some protests here (about very different issues than coronavirus) where the protesters thought the thing to do was to stop rush hour traffic on Lake Shore Drive. Not only do I not know anyone not already convinced of the protest's rightness who was convinced by it, but I think it angered plenty of more neutral folks to the extent they thought worse of the protestors and their cause. (Anecdotal, of course.)
As another thought, not knowing the area, I'm not sure what good they think would be achieved by a traffic jam now. Here in Chicago, traffic jams are common normally, especially coming into and out of the city, and right now there is barely anyone on the road. Most people who would ordinarily be upset by a traffic jam that was extra bad are not driving. I suppose it's meant to annoy people traveling for gov't business?4 -
Perhaps it's just for visual display, not meant to annoy anyone, just a visual statement to show how they feel2
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https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-nyt-coronavirus-food-waste-20200413-x5n6sbmrh5an3cilo6hxozrkj4-story.html
We've talked about this before, but it's depressing: "Dumped milk, smashed eggs and plowed vegetables: Coronavirus pandemic leaves staggering amount of food waste"
One bit:
"The closing of restaurants, hotels and schools has left some farmers with no buyers for more than half their crops. And even as retailers see spikes in food sales to Americans who are now eating nearly every meal at home, the increases are not enough to absorb all of the perishable food that was planted weeks ago and intended for schools and businesses.
The amount of waste is staggering. The nation’s largest dairy cooperative, Dairy Farmers of America, estimates that farmers are dumping as many as 3.7 million gallons of milk each day. A single chicken processor is smashing 750,000 unhatched eggs every week.
Many farmers say they have donated part of the surplus to food banks and Meals on Wheels programs, which have been overwhelmed with demand. But there is only so much perishable food that charities with limited numbers of refrigerators and volunteers can absorb."7 -
KrissCanDoThis wrote: »Perhaps it's just for visual display, not meant to annoy anyone, just a visual statement to show how they feel
Maybe, but it seems the stated intent is to create a traffic jam.
I never watch local news (or any TV news), so it probably wouldn't make a big impression on me, as someone working from home. I'm sure it would be covered by the local paper, which I read, along with various other papers and other such forms of information, but reading "15,000 cars turned up" would likely not make that big an impression comparatively, which is why I'm wondering if there is an intent to shut the city down somehow (which I consider irresponsible, just as I thought trying to shut down LSD at rush hour was not a good way to garner support for a cause).4 -
https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-nyt-coronavirus-food-waste-20200413-x5n6sbmrh5an3cilo6hxozrkj4-story.html
We've talked about this before, but it's depressing: "Dumped milk, smashed eggs and plowed vegetables: Coronavirus pandemic leaves staggering amount of food waste"
One bit:
"The closing of restaurants, hotels and schools has left some farmers with no buyers for more than half their crops. And even as retailers see spikes in food sales to Americans who are now eating nearly every meal at home, the increases are not enough to absorb all of the perishable food that was planted weeks ago and intended for schools and businesses.
The amount of waste is staggering. The nation’s largest dairy cooperative, Dairy Farmers of America, estimates that farmers are dumping as many as 3.7 million gallons of milk each day. A single chicken processor is smashing 750,000 unhatched eggs every week.
Many farmers say they have donated part of the surplus to food banks and Meals on Wheels programs, which have been overwhelmed with demand. But there is only so much perishable food that charities with limited numbers of refrigerators and volunteers can absorb."
Many farmers here in America's Dairyland are dumping as much as 5000 gallons per farmer, per day. Part of the problem is the closing of schools and restaurants but another part of the problem is the lack of additional retail packaging, which is what would be used for places like food banks. The jugs and bags just are not available. If the processors can't package up the milk, they can't forward it on to where it needs to go.8 -
So, I'm thinking there cannot be anything much more stupid than the planned protest. First, announcing when and where--any who wants to avoid it, can. So the only people involved in the gridlock will be the protesters themselves. Generally, the point of protesting in pubic roadways is to disrupt normal traffic/routines. Folks staying at home will not be inconvenienced in any way (although staying at home may seem inconvenient). So who is supposed to be inconvenienced? Who is going to care if a bunch of yahoos are stuck in their cars?
I must be missing something--quite possibly I should have read up more on the plan. But on face value, it seems breathtakingly ridiculous.12 -
KrissCanDoThis wrote: »Perhaps it's just for visual display, not meant to annoy anyone, just a visual statement to show how they feel
Yeah, mostly this, I think. Just an alternative to showing up on the capitol building steps with placards/signs. I think their intention (at least as stated) is to comply with social distancing, but still protest.@AnnPT77 my first thought is that expecting people who are upset about the lockdown to show up but adhere to all those rules is... unrealistic. Those looking for the quarantine to end most likely feel the costs outweight the benefit because they think the risks are overblown in the first place.
Also I've never been in gridlock traffic where it was easy to get out of the way of emergency vehicles. I would hope that even with good intentions they don't end up slowing down any such vehicles. Not knowing the area though I'm not sure if there's any real danger of that.
Considering how universally annoying sitting in traffic is, I'm curious how many people will voluntarily put themselves into a purposeful traffic jam in order to theoretically make a point!
Personally, I think the extra risks of drawing people together like that, possible accidents, crowds forming, frustrated drivers, extra work for law enforcement etc is a bad idea.
As background:
Traffic jams are not normally a big deal here, unless an accident/closure/road conditions back things up temporarily. There are two high-travel freeway segments in the city that have very short quasi-traffic jams (mostly slowdowns) at rush hours (I'd say for less than half an hour twice a day), without some unusual conditions. I believe they intend to head toward the capitol building, which is surrounded by 2 to 4 lane surface roads, some of them one-way. If there are enough cars, it will be possible to create gridlock there, especially when intending to do that.
I know some people who've implied that they will go to this (by posting positive things about it in social media). I didn't try to confirm their plans.
If I learn anything useful about how popular/well-attended this was, or how people behaved, I'll report back after the fact, if it makes sense, assuming there's politically-neutral information that can be shared. If it turns out to be heavily-attended, I'd be surprised if there wasn't national coverage.
Like you, I am not taking a position on any political issues, but there have been some protests here (about very different issues than coronavirus) where the protesters thought the thing to do was to stop rush hour traffic on Lake Shore Drive. Not only do I not know anyone not already convinced of the protest's rightness who was convinced by it, but I think it angered plenty of more neutral folks to the extent they thought worse of the protestors and their cause. (Anecdotal, of course.)
As another thought, not knowing the area, I'm not sure what good they think would be achieved by a traffic jam now. Here in Chicago, traffic jams are common normally, especially coming into and out of the city, and right now there is barely anyone on the road. Most people who would ordinarily be upset by a traffic jam that was extra bad are not driving. I suppose it's meant to annoy people traveling for gov't business?
The polemics around this are about what you'd expect, as far as I can see: Those who support the protest think it's a legit mostly-legal exercise to show their outrage en masse, those who oppose the protest (support the administration) think it's pretty stupid in both aims and approach.
No one will be convinced, I predict. Frankly, tactics on both sides of the support/oppose lockdown divide seem to me very unlikely to have any persuasive impact on the opposition. Same for the support/oppose national figure divide, support/oppose state figure divide, etc. It seems to be more about preaching to the choir(s), inside a same-think bubble, and belittling (in cartoon terms) those who think differently.
Only a very few (but not zero) people I know have expressed any opinion like "I didn't vote for X, but I respect how they're handling this", or variations on that theme. It's very polarized, it seems to me, into ultra-convinced ultra-partisan camps. Or at least that's who's speaking up.
One thing that interests me about this particular protest is that it seem to be coming from partisan quarters that traditionally have been less likely to rely on mass demonstrations, and more likely to criticize them . . . though there are no historical absolutes in who uses these tactics, just IMO trends or tendencies.2 -
Regarding the schoolwork -- as someone else has said, teachers do not determine what expectations they must meet; the admin does, with guidance from the district, which takes guidance from the school board. SO--if you are ticked off, call/contact your local school board member and complain. Daily. Send that school board member an invitation to a zoom meeting to teach your kids. Get your local friends and family to do so, too.
ETA: Also check to see if there are any state mandates driving educational decisions, and go to your local state house rep/senator about it if there are.
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Only a very few (but not zero) people I know have expressed any opinion like "I didn't vote for X, but I respect how they're handling this", or variations on that theme. It's very polarized, it seems to me, into ultra-convinced ultra-partisan camps. Or at least that's who's speaking up.
I suspect it's somewhat the opposite in Ohio, with lots of people who didn't vote for DeWine happy with the job he is doing, whereas others who may have supported him politically being upset.
I think the partisan aspect of this is being exaggerated just by the fact that urban and rural areas are politically split and it is currently hitting urban areas much harder.One thing that interests me about this particular protest is that it seem to be coming from partisan quarters that traditionally have been less likely to rely on mass demonstrations, and more likely to criticize them . . . though there are no historical absolutes in who uses these tactics, just IMO trends or tendencies.
Tea Party Movement would be an exception, as well as culturally-based protests (think Last Temptation of Christ and the like).1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »An acquaintance of mine through other friends has just recovered. He was two weeks in hospital with 11 days in ICU in induced coma on a ventilator. Pretty healthy guy of 38 years old. He just got out on Saturday. Our mortality numbers have jumped 55% in the last two days. Currently 1,345 positive cases out of 31,970 tests. 31 deaths now with 87 in the hospital. 304 recovered as designated by DOH.
I'd be really curious to know how many of those hospitalized are in ICUs...the last time I looked, we had around 54 ICU beds available in the state, but that is always a rolling number and I can't find it anywhere now.
At that covidtracking site they have the information for the states who have been releasing it. Looks like NM is not.
As of yesterday, IL had 3680 in the hospital with coronavirus, with 1166 of those in the ICU. 821 of them were on ventilators. (For comparison, that's was with 22,025 positives and 794 deaths, yesterday's numbers; today there are 1222 more cases and 74 more deaths, but the hospital stuff hasn't been updated yet.)
I know that we have increased overall capacity here by canceling elective surgeries, etc...but mostly I find numbers for total capacity, not total available capacity.
As of March 25:
UNM Hospital is the NM's only Level 1 trauma center and all they have stated is that they are operating under their pandemic influenza plan. Presbyterian has increased to a total of 453 ICU beds, but no mention of how many are full and how many are available. Lovelace Medical Center has 50 ICU beds but say they can expand to 90 if needed by re-purposing other hospital units as needed. There were a total of 344 licensed ICU beds in mid March in the state with 54 being available at that time (March 15).
So on paper it looks like we've at least increased capacity by around 150 beds...IDK without knowing how many are full already if we're ok right now, but it would also be pretty easy to overrun those bed numbers, particularly as we've seen a drastic increase in just the last couple of days and it looks like we'll probably see the worst over the next week or two as we peak.
Apparently there is a MASH hospital that is supposed to be going up in Albuquerque as well with 250 beds...I would imagine they would use the downtown convention center as it could be pretty easily converted. It was announced on March 26th that the POTUS approved, but I haven't heard about anything being started...it was supposed to start being "built" yesterday...0 -
Only a very few (but not zero) people I know have expressed any opinion like "I didn't vote for X, but I respect how they're handling this", or variations on that theme. It's very polarized, it seems to me, into ultra-convinced ultra-partisan camps. Or at least that's who's speaking up.
I suspect it's somewhat the opposite in Ohio, with lots of people who didn't vote for DeWine happy with the job he is doing, whereas others who may have supported him politically being upset.
I think the partisan aspect of this is being exaggerated just by the fact that urban and rural areas are politically split and it is currently hitting urban areas much harder.
Looking specifically and only at my friends here, that's not the divide I'm specifically seeing. It's a mix of urban and rural individuals on each side of this argument, among people I know; and it tends to fall along partisan political lines (i.e., not 100% congruent with party affiliations, just mostly so).
I don't know how it breaks down, statistically, though.One thing that interests me about this particular protest is that it seem to be coming from partisan quarters that traditionally have been less likely to rely on mass demonstrations, and more likely to criticize them . . . though there are no historical absolutes in who uses these tactics, just IMO trends or tendencies.
Tea Party Movement would be an exception, as well as culturally-based protests (think Last Temptation of Christ and the like).
Sure, there are exceptions. But the Tea Party also did a lot of grass-roots intra-system political organizing, as do some of those with cultural beefs. Opposite also true, that mass protest is not in reality the only tactic at the other extreme.
Like I said, just trends/tendencies, IMO, not absolutes.
Also interesting: How the "states rights" rhetoric is being deployed, and by whom, in this case.1 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »@AnnPT77
What are they unhappy about? What is happening in Michigan?[/quote]
A huge, heinous traffic jam apparently. 🤦♂️2 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »
I can't really answer that, I think, without being partisan/political. If you Google the #hashtag in the graphic, you'll see many reports - probably mostly from supporters - about what's going on.
The protestors do not support the state government's current orders, which have locked things down quite tightly for a now-extended period (I believe until the end of April, at this point), allowing only fairly narrowly-defined "essential businesses" to be open. Among people I know, those supporting the protest were not fans of the current administration even before this. Supporters predict 15,000 or more will show up.
I'm in Michigan, too. I think a traffic jam protest is irresponsible and won't change any minds. I doubt they'll accomplish much, however. I don't know Lansing's layout well, but tying up the surface streets around the capitol building wouldn't do much if the legislature's not meeting and many of the government offices are on limited on-site staffing.
I do think the latest order was inconsistent in designating 'essential' and 'non-essential' businesses, and is probably hurting many smaller businesses more than necessary. I also think a lot of the people driving this are not concerned at all about the business impact, it's their 'personal inconvenience' that's making them mad.
Sadly, as in many states, there's a lot of antagonism between the urban centers and the countryside. Detroit and it's suburbs are taking the brunt of the covid-19 cases, and some people are inclined to think of it in terms as a Detroit problem if they don't live in that area or have the means to get away. They don't understand how much the healthcare system upstate depends on hospitals in the urban and suburban areas to handle the harder cases.11 -
Looking specifically and only at my friends here, that's not the divide I'm specifically seeing. It's a mix of urban and rural individuals on each side of this argument, among people I know; and it tends to fall along partisan political lines (i.e., not 100% congruent with party affiliations, just mostly so).
I don't know how it breaks down, statistically, though.
I think in smaller urban areas (I don't know if you are focusing on Lansing but if so), you are going to have a politically mixed population so might see more partisanship (and I'm not saying I see none). I have some connections with Peoria, IL, where I think you'd see similar. And everything is partisan these days, sure. One thing about smaller cities is that they are often more politically mixed, too, than some other areas (same with suburbs).
But I listen to a variety of right leaning and libertarian podcasts, and others that have right leaning people on them, and those people who are from--or in close touch with--areas where there are currently outbreaks seem to me to be supporting the stay at home orders (although not without some specific criticisms in some cases) and taking this seriously (and to regret we didn't do more testing initially). Most of the people I'm talking about are from the NE especially NYC and DC, to be fair (and aren't actually fans of the president). I also know plenty of longstanding Rs in the burbs here, and some in the city, even, and mostly (although not without exception), they are supportive of the stay at home idea. The Archdiocese of Chicago (which of course is not either R or D) cancelled schools and masses before CPS shut down, and before the state put its stay at home order in place, which might have some relevance locally too.
That said, there are some things in the new MI order that would probably seem like overkill to me, if I lived in the state, even though I'm fine with what IL and Chicago have done so far (which is probably similar to the prior MI order). I'm not going to state my politics, but I suspect they are somewhat apparent or easy to figure out from past posts (I always assume that's so but wonder when I generally avoid talking about politics as I do here).0 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »There was a drive by shooting last night a couple of blocks from us. Same area where there have been several shootings in the past (one just last year). Someone was airlifted to the hospital with a head wound. I know it has to do with just a few houses on that block but I'm still shaken.
Then I get on Next Door to see what happened, and 5G lady is going on about towers going up secretly overnight without notification and it's very concerning. According to some conspiracy site she posted "the towers transmit waves that cause flu-like symptoms that worsen (just like coronavirus) even to the extent of death".
Meanwhile my husband and I stopped by a friend's house to drop off a bike wheel that's been in the trunk of his car since he got furloughed. We talked face to face while she sat on the lawn and we sat in the car, and I was so pathetically happy to have an actual in person conversation.
This is a strange conspiracy theory that has been thoroughly debunked.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-5g-idUSKBN2133TI
Oh yeah, plenty of reliable sites debunking the insanity, that's a good one. This same person believes that 5G is a conspiracy by the government to monitor the activities of every one in th US (they need the internet capacity to do it). And the government will DELETE the post because they don't want anyone to know what they're doing. All I can say is
1. Mobile providers can already trace the movements of anyone with an active cell phone. I think it's the CDC that's using the technology to track COVID-19 exposure and infection vectors. They don't need 5G to do that.
2. What on earth is the government (or any agency) going to do with billions of reports of people going to work, the store, school, whatever most of us do on a daily basis? Who's going to pick through all that data to pinpoint Random Person who who attended last night's rally of people who suspect the government is tracking their every move?
Personally, I think it is neat to be able to go back and see exactly where I was on a specific day or during a specific time period. Google Maps has a neat tool for this. As you zoom in, the detail gets better and better.1 -
I'm not sure if I mentioned this already or not, but I did order from a local farm (my favorite green market is providing information on their site), and it came today (I ordered on Sunday). I got a butternut squash, some parnips, some beets, fingerling potatoes, sunchokes, and then some pickled turnips and sauerkraut (seeing the pickled turnips I realized I had, in fact, had them before, even though I claimed on another thread I had not). I could have gotten some greens too, but didn't need any, and same with eggs and meat and popcorn.2
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »There was a drive by shooting last night a couple of blocks from us. Same area where there have been several shootings in the past (one just last year). Someone was airlifted to the hospital with a head wound. I know it has to do with just a few houses on that block but I'm still shaken.
Then I get on Next Door to see what happened, and 5G lady is going on about towers going up secretly overnight without notification and it's very concerning. According to some conspiracy site she posted "the towers transmit waves that cause flu-like symptoms that worsen (just like coronavirus) even to the extent of death".
Meanwhile my husband and I stopped by a friend's house to drop off a bike wheel that's been in the trunk of his car since he got furloughed. We talked face to face while she sat on the lawn and we sat in the car, and I was so pathetically happy to have an actual in person conversation.
This is a strange conspiracy theory that has been thoroughly debunked.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-5g-idUSKBN2133TI
Oh yeah, plenty of reliable sites debunking the insanity, that's a good one. This same person believes that 5G is a conspiracy by the government to monitor the activities of every one in th US (they need the internet capacity to do it). And the government will DELETE the post because they don't want anyone to know what they're doing. All I can say is
1. Mobile providers can already trace the movements of anyone with an active cell phone. I think it's the CDC that's using the technology to track COVID-19 exposure and infection vectors. They don't need 5G to do that.
2. What on earth is the government (or any agency) going to do with billions of reports of people going to work, the store, school, whatever most of us do on a daily basis? Who's going to pick through all that data to pinpoint Random Person who who attended last night's rally of people who suspect the government is tracking their every move?
Personally, I think it is neat to be able to go back and see exactly where I was on a specific day or during a specific time period. Google Maps has a neat tool for this. As you zoom in, the detail gets better and better.
Oh, I'll have to check that out! I didn't know that was a feature 😊0 -
And now you can at least partially figure out why 11 governors didn’t mandate a lockdown. Just heavily suggest and encourage people to practice safe behaviors.0
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JRsLateInLifeMom wrote: »WhoamI- Grandmas in her 90’s lives with my Uncle Barry she chooses to not live in one either I feel it’s in individual decision. My MIL y FIL y my Dad also don’t want to be in one so allowing them to live in their own homes with help when needed from medical to groceries. Even got Dad (dementia y brain injury) a new iPad he loves it a lot my Aunt y Uncle in their 70’s y 80’s live with him so they stay active together. Everyone’s different tho some choose to live in a assisted living center to nursing home thrive there depends on the person.
Lynn -she did have a babysitter but not someone in the home that’s why she returned home baby wasn’t there while she changes clothes y showers.Baby not home alone obviously wasn’t watched by a family member... Looked like same babysitter as before the Pandemic which even tho she’s taking precautions is the babysitter??? Assuming Dads not an essential worker or sure she could have argued that his was just as dangerous. Sure judge had more facts than we got to see. Still would like to think my Dr. non-biological Daughter I raised couldn’t have such a thing happen to her but sure it can to anyone just depends on the judge. She seemed to think what some do that this pandemic will not end in a month but could last months to a year didnt like the thought of no physical contact that long. Hopefully Skype can be used the father kind enough hopefully to allow phone time. Hopefully no one uses her case to argue their own.
No martial law here in Texas either.
They stopped the one drug their trying cloro something said too many heart ❤️ issues with it. If this is true hopefully they’ll find another quickly
There's no martial law anywhere in the U.S. right now.9 -
We are going to lose some of the rural hospitals if they do not go back to generating income by caring for the non COVID-19 patients. Lay offs at the hospitals in our regions are treating the existence of more and more hospitals since the COVID-19 wave that was to have been here by today has not shown up. If it shows up 4-6 weeks from now the staff will already be gone.1
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