Coronavirus prep
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CupcakeCrusoe wrote: »I'm a little concerned about food.
I've heard that meat processing plants are having a really hard time keeping up production, because of course they are. I can go without meat, but if meat processing plants are having a hard time, I imagine all food production is having a hard time, and I'm worried. I don't know what if anything I can do, besides try to garden, but even then, I definitely can't produce enough to feed my family.
I guess we'll just have to see what happens.
The issue with meat right now is that the major processing facilities are dealing with outbreaks. I believe the affect on food production will depend on how centralized the production of each item is, where those facilities are located, and how proactive the company is about safeguarding their workers and how crowded with employees those facilities typically are.
Unfortunately it seems commercial meat production in the US is quite centralized and required a lot of people in those buildings. So a couple of facilities go down and everyone feels it.
When the whole situation first started in my corner of the world mid-March, there was definitely a temporary shortage of fresh meat products. It made sense because everyone was suddenly hoarding, and it took the production chain from slaughterhouses to packaging some time to recover and amp up production of consumer goods. The same thing would of course happen again if a big production facility had to be quarantined and closed.1 -
Things are looking promising here. It has been a few days since the last new case. 2-4 cases daily, all are either children who are already at the hospital with their sick parents or import drivers who test positive at the border before entering the country (but mostly drivers).
Most things are open now under strict sanitation and distancing rules (even non-essentials). There aren't any plans to open gathering places yet (churches, mosques, wedding venues, clubs...etc). Restaurants are all open for delivery and pickup. Almost half the provinces are almost back to life as usual and can drive freely. The rest can drive but with restrictions. Cars with an even plate number drive one day, and cars with an odd number drive the next. No more than 2 people in one car. Public transport is now also open at 30% capacity.
People are...well... people. They're not distancing as much as they should be. It's Ramadan and they're flooding to buy food without any regard for safety. Some places are better organized than others - we've been buying and freezing bread once every 10 or so days to avoid crowds at bread bakeries and buying our vegetables at the grocery store (more expensive) because produce stores are less organized. I used to get upset at people, but I feel less upset now, probably because it's looking good right now. I have resigned to "people are people, and will keep doing what people do"3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I'm pretty concerned about this whole food chain thing - and not just meat. I would say to everyone, stock up on protein powder, pasta or wheat, nuts, beans, whatever protein sources you see at the store. Canned vegetables and fruits, etc.
I guess the government *could* deploy the National Guard or military to run the factories if it comes to that. Let's pray it doesn't.
What's the difference between stocking up and hording.
The national guard, etc can not run slaughter houses. Farmers have started killing pigs at birth, crushing fertilized eggs and dumping milk in some areas.
One starts with an "s", the other starts with an "h".?
Being 69 and from the middle south when I was a kid it was only the city slickers/liberals that lived out a grocery store but times have changed. There are no more hog killings, 3 acre gardens (truck patches) and few people kill their own beef any more.
Prepping for a pandemic like we are in now was just a way of like for some 50-100 years ago. Come winter you had up your fire wood, the pork was hanging in the smoke house and the garden was in the food cellar. The live cows and chickens provided fresh dairy products and eggs. By the way it has been hard to find baby chicks locally because of people preparing to eat during this pandemic.
https://nbcnews.com/news/world/u-n-warns-hunger-pandemic-amid-threats-coronavirus-economic-downturn-n1189326
We are told millions will die from lack of food in 2020 around the world and this pandemic will just increase those numbers. Much of the food chain in the USA depends on non USA citizens brought to the USA and living in conditions ripe for COVID-19 break-outs. Holes are already appearing in our "just in time" food supply chain as noted in the NBC story above. For some countries the locust plague is of more concern at this point than COVID-19. Many readers may never had parents that lived through the Great Depression so they may not know to stock up to prevent sickness that can lead to death.
We already know most healthy people have had or will have COVID-19 and never know it. Good health is really the only way to prep to prevent death from COVID-19 but isolation of those with poor health is a must. The rest of us will have to work to keep food production happening and caring for the sick.
Fresh and frozen pork can be hauled 2000-4000 miles. Live hogs can not be hauled 4000 miles to a slaughter house for processing. The hogs and slaughter houses are not all located down town NYC hence a supply chain concern. Most of us will come out of this pandemic alive but not all. Some nations may experience a near wipe-out in some areas.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I'm pretty concerned about this whole food chain thing - and not just meat. I would say to everyone, stock up on protein powder, pasta or wheat, nuts, beans, whatever protein sources you see at the store. Canned vegetables and fruits, etc.
I guess the government *could* deploy the National Guard or military to run the factories if it comes to that. Let's pray it doesn't.
What's the difference between stocking up and hording.
The national guard, etc can not run slaughter houses. Farmers have started killing pigs at birth, crushing fertilized eggs and dumping milk in some areas.
And Publix grocery chain (and perhaps others) is buying farm products that would otherwise be destroyed, and donating them to Feeding America.
A core problem is largely that huge amounts of food normally go into institutional supply chains (for restaurants, schools, etc.) in bulk packaging. While there are efforts to retool the supply chains for consumer-type packaging, that takes time. Farmers can't instantly switch to another distribution chain; they don't normally have those business connections. Many won't have any way to donate locally given the volume they have, for similar reasons. Meanwhile, chickens keep laying, meat animals keep putting on weight, cows keep lactating and that milk needs to be removed. So, output is dumped.
Yeah, that's kind of horrifying, but lets don't leave the impression that this is a simple matter of cruelty or bad behavior, let alone an intentional attempt to create shortages. Mostly, we have a lot of humans doing the best they're able, in really difficult and complicated circumstances.
And it has nothing to do with stocking up or hoarding.
I'd say: "Stocking up" is buying a bit extra of things you will need and use within a reasonable time period, being mindful that others rely on the same supply chains. "Hoarding" is buying more than you will reasonably need or use relatively soon, ignoring others needs, either because of something like fear and anxiety (which is unfortunate, but somewhat understandable), or with a hope of profiting financially by cynically creating/exploiting shortages and benefiting from others' desperation in the face of short supply (which is IMO objectively evil).
Squishy definition? Yes. Facile? Maybe. Close enough for gubmint work.13 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Hand sanitizer: If you have a local craft distillery - one that usually makes vodka, whiskey, gin, etc. - check their FB/web page, or call to see if they have hand sanitizer. My local sells it in gallons, or 2oz, at about cost to make. I've read about places in other parts of the country doing similar things. Helps a local business, helps you.
Yes! There is a place nearby that changed from making whiskey to hand sanitizer. I heard they sell the bottle (32 oz., I think? I don't drink whiskey, so not exactly sure what the bottle size is) for $35. That may be a little expensive for that size of container, but not terrible. Also, they are new to making it and I'm sure materials went up in cost too... so probably is about right. They were supplying the nearest hospital as well and not sure if they were charging or how much. If not, that explains part of the cost too. Either way, $35 for about a liter isn't bad.
Local central IL distillery is selling hand sanitizer for $56.65 a gallon. Don't know where you're at but sounds high.
That's equivalent to 88 cents for the standard 2 oz. personal size container. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's hard to remember the "before times," especially since personal hand sanitizer was kind of a random purchase for me, not something I was buying regularly, but my best recollection is about $1.50 for a 2 oz. bottle. Of course, you normally expect a volume discount when you buy a large container.
And for the $35 dollar for a whiskey bottle from an earlier poster -- the "standard" whiskey bottle is a "fifth" (fifth of a gallon), so assuming that's what they're using, that's a little pricey -- about $2.73 per 2 oz.3 -
The only chronic shortage I am seeing here is powdered milk. My local Pig has received exactly one shipment of it in the last 2 months. I don't normally use it but have been keeping a sourdough starter and want to make English muffins. All recipes I have call for powdered milk. Both regular and evaporated add too much moisture to the dough. I have buttermilk powder but think it might be too rich.
This is especially ironic since area farmers are dumping milk because the demand has gone way down with institutions like schools and restaurants closed. The powdered milk manufacturers cannot keep up with demand but they don't have the facilities to cope with excess supply.
That seems like something you could order online (of course, it might be pricier). I haven't been on Amazon for physical goods since they started restricting shipments, but I would think a basic food like that would still be shipping. Or you could try a specialty site. I'm pretty sure King Arthur Flour has powdered milk since, as you note, it's often used in baking. Or maybe Bob's Red Mill. I'm sure there are others. Those just happen to be two I have used.2 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Things are looking promising here. It has been a few days since the last new case. 2-4 cases daily, all are either children who are already at the hospital with their sick parents or import drivers who test positive at the border before entering the country (but mostly drivers).
Most things are open now under strict sanitation and distancing rules (even non-essentials). There aren't any plans to open gathering places yet (churches, mosques, wedding venues, clubs...etc). Restaurants are all open for delivery and pickup. Almost half the provinces are almost back to life as usual and can drive freely. The rest can drive but with restrictions. Cars with an even plate number drive one day, and cars with an odd number drive the next. No more than 2 people in one car. Public transport is now also open at 30% capacity.
People are...well... people. They're not distancing as much as they should be. It's Ramadan and they're flooding to buy food without any regard for safety. Some places are better organized than others - we've been buying and freezing bread once every 10 or so days to avoid crowds at bread bakeries and buying our vegetables at the grocery store (more expensive) because produce stores are less organized. I used to get upset at people, but I feel less upset now, probably because it's looking good right now. I have resigned to "people are people, and will keep doing what people do"
This is what concerns me. I think we could reasonably safely open up a lot of businesses, if people were just capable of continuing to obey social distancing advisories. They had a piece on "60 Minutes" yesterday of an automobile plant that has retooled to produce ventilators, and they have erected plastic barriers between work stations, everyone was wearing masks, and they had smart watches that buzzed if they got within six feet of another smart watch (also storing data on what watches they were near, for future contact tracing if necessary). And the company is doing all that because people are people, and if you don't have systems in place to stop them, they're going to go back to their old ways of swapping germs and not washing their hands.13 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Hand sanitizer: If you have a local craft distillery - one that usually makes vodka, whiskey, gin, etc. - check their FB/web page, or call to see if they have hand sanitizer. My local sells it in gallons, or 2oz, at about cost to make. I've read about places in other parts of the country doing similar things. Helps a local business, helps you.
Yes! There is a place nearby that changed from making whiskey to hand sanitizer. I heard they sell the bottle (32 oz., I think? I don't drink whiskey, so not exactly sure what the bottle size is) for $35. That may be a little expensive for that size of container, but not terrible. Also, they are new to making it and I'm sure materials went up in cost too... so probably is about right. They were supplying the nearest hospital as well and not sure if they were charging or how much. If not, that explains part of the cost too. Either way, $35 for about a liter isn't bad.
Local central IL distillery is selling hand sanitizer for $56.65 a gallon. Don't know where you're at but sounds high.
That's equivalent to 88 cents for the standard 2 oz. personal size container. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's hard to remember the "before times," especially since personal hand sanitizer was kind of a random purchase for me, not something I was buying regularly, but my best recollection is about $1.50 for a 2 oz. bottle. Of course, you normally expect a volume discount when you buy a large container.
And for the $35 dollar for a whiskey bottle from an earlier poster -- the "standard" whiskey bottle is a "fifth" (fifth of a gallon), so assuming that's what they're using, that's a little pricey -- about $2.73 per 2 oz.
I suspect it's relevant that the distilleries are set up to make food-grade alcohol, and are kind of shoe-stringing some of the hand sanitizer production, so maybe higher cost of staffing/production. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I know my local** was struggling at first with sourcing things like suitable plastic bottles that they don't usually use, and I suspect they didn't have great equipment for efficiently fillng such bottles, etc.
** Which is selling 2 oz bottles for $2, not sure about prices for larger, but they have gallons - they said that's pricing approximately at cost, and - knowing them - I expect that's true. At first, they had people bring their own plastic bottles, which they'd sanitize, fill, then re-sanitize before giving back - not exactly efficient industrial scale processes.
They've now sourced their own bottles, but I suspect at higher unit cost than Purell pays, and I assume the production process is still not hyper-efficient, either. 1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Hand sanitizer: If you have a local craft distillery - one that usually makes vodka, whiskey, gin, etc. - check their FB/web page, or call to see if they have hand sanitizer. My local sells it in gallons, or 2oz, at about cost to make. I've read about places in other parts of the country doing similar things. Helps a local business, helps you.
Yes! There is a place nearby that changed from making whiskey to hand sanitizer. I heard they sell the bottle (32 oz., I think? I don't drink whiskey, so not exactly sure what the bottle size is) for $35. That may be a little expensive for that size of container, but not terrible. Also, they are new to making it and I'm sure materials went up in cost too... so probably is about right. They were supplying the nearest hospital as well and not sure if they were charging or how much. If not, that explains part of the cost too. Either way, $35 for about a liter isn't bad.
Local central IL distillery is selling hand sanitizer for $56.65 a gallon. Don't know where you're at but sounds high.
That's equivalent to 88 cents for the standard 2 oz. personal size container. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's hard to remember the "before times," especially since personal hand sanitizer was kind of a random purchase for me, not something I was buying regularly, but my best recollection is about $1.50 for a 2 oz. bottle. Of course, you normally expect a volume discount when you buy a large container.
And for the $35 dollar for a whiskey bottle from an earlier poster -- the "standard" whiskey bottle is a "fifth" (fifth of a gallon), so assuming that's what they're using, that's a little pricey -- about $2.73 per 2 oz.
I suspect it's relevant that the distilleries are set up to make food-grade alcohol, and are kind of shoe-stringing some of the hand sanitizer production, so maybe higher cost of staffing/production. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I know my local** was struggling at first with sourcing things like suitable plastic bottles that they don't usually use, and I suspect they didn't have great equipment for efficiently fillng such bottles, etc.
** Which is selling 2 oz bottles for $2, not sure about prices for larger, but they have gallons - they said that's pricing approximately at cost, and - knowing them - I expect that's true. At first, they had people bring their own plastic bottles, which they'd sanitize, fill, then re-sanitize before giving back - not exactly efficient industrial scale processes. They've now sourced their own bottles, but I suspect at higher unit cost than Purell pays, and I assume the production process is still not hyper-efficient, either.
Oh, I didn't mean to imply profiteering. I think most places are mainly trying to find a way to be a part of the solution and maybe keep a few employees on. Some of the distilleries I've heard about are donating their sanitizer to hospitals and other front-line facilities.
I just offered the numbers for anyone who was trying to work out their budget, who maybe didn't feel they could afford to pay above non-pandemic market prices.3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Things are looking promising here. It has been a few days since the last new case. 2-4 cases daily, all are either children who are already at the hospital with their sick parents or import drivers who test positive at the border before entering the country (but mostly drivers).
Most things are open now under strict sanitation and distancing rules (even non-essentials). There aren't any plans to open gathering places yet (churches, mosques, wedding venues, clubs...etc). Restaurants are all open for delivery and pickup. Almost half the provinces are almost back to life as usual and can drive freely. The rest can drive but with restrictions. Cars with an even plate number drive one day, and cars with an odd number drive the next. No more than 2 people in one car. Public transport is now also open at 30% capacity.
People are...well... people. They're not distancing as much as they should be. It's Ramadan and they're flooding to buy food without any regard for safety. Some places are better organized than others - we've been buying and freezing bread once every 10 or so days to avoid crowds at bread bakeries and buying our vegetables at the grocery store (more expensive) because produce stores are less organized. I used to get upset at people, but I feel less upset now, probably because it's looking good right now. I have resigned to "people are people, and will keep doing what people do"
Where is "here"? It would be really helpful if people would give their location when the give update posts.4 -
Several meat processing plants have closed down in Minnesota in the past week due to covid outbreaks among employees. Farmers have hogs ready for slaughter, but no place to send them. They are predicting shortages of pork products. Euthanizing animals. Crop farmers are just beginning to plow and plant. Farmers markets locally won’t start for a couple of weeks. Every small town has a butcher shop. I told my husband today that we need to check them out.4
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Since we have been told over and over to expect this pandemic to be a 6 to 18 month event stocking up can be a huge amount for some.
Hoarding to corner the market so one can resell at inflated pricing is criminal in most places.
https://cbsnews.com/live-updates/coronavirus-update-lockdowns-million-cases-2020-04-27/
I see from the news that the beaches in CA (USA) are filling up so clearly the shelter in place is ending across the country if it is ending in CA. We are shutting down and or downsizing hospitals due to the lack of patients.
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns I expect we are going to see a blip up of COVID-19 cases or worse. Once the hospitals across the country get over ran I can see people being willing to shelter in place maybe for 30 days again.
All across the USA churches are regaining the legal right to meet especially in the drive-in parking lot style of meetings. While that does not excite me safety wise we know it has the blessing from state and national levels of government.
Personally I am starting to looking at Conoravirus prep as learning to survive the next 1-5 years. If I am death then that will not matter but we know most in the USA will have COVID-19 and never know it. While the stock market may hit 35,000 this summer and retirement plans back on track I am not betting on that happening. Food and TP issues will end then the focus will be on how to move forward in a post COVID-19 world.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?14 -
Grants, New Mexico is going Rogue. This is very unfortunate as things have been shaping up and it looked very likely that we would begin a phase I re-open after May 15. This could very well end up extending stay at home orders...I'm hoping not, but.....
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-grants-new-mexico-mayor-martin-hicks-showdown-police-lockdown/3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I noted I was only speaking about USA laws. The news article explains how states are removing more and more restraints on people. This will help prevent social unrest even if medically if it is a step backwards. No one knows what to do in these times.
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janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I doubt light ever finds its way to where his head's at.7 -
We bought my husband’s great grandparents old house and it has a cinderblock “ham house” in the backyard... his grandfather used to raise pigs and they would process their own each year. When we first cleaned it out years ago we found the remnants of a ham sitting on the table inside! They said that the weather just isn’t cold enough to hang them through the winter like they used to. He remembers his great grandma hobbling back to the rather large chicken house with her cane in one hand, basket in the other to collect eggs (I used her nest boxes and feeders when I had chickens while living there)... a good acre for her garden (my children got a metal detector and were digging up her old pie plates that she would hang throughout). Oh to be able to go back and ask the important questions while she was still alive!
The farm down the road from us is now set up on Facebook and he said he posts updates on what he has available (I don’t have an account and haven’t remembered to search for it). He had looked into joining a coop type thing but said the logistics of it were a bit too much for him.5 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Things are looking promising here. It has been a few days since the last new case. 2-4 cases daily, all are either children who are already at the hospital with their sick parents or import drivers who test positive at the border before entering the country (but mostly drivers).
Most things are open now under strict sanitation and distancing rules (even non-essentials). There aren't any plans to open gathering places yet (churches, mosques, wedding venues, clubs...etc). Restaurants are all open for delivery and pickup. Almost half the provinces are almost back to life as usual and can drive freely. The rest can drive but with restrictions. Cars with an even plate number drive one day, and cars with an odd number drive the next. No more than 2 people in one car. Public transport is now also open at 30% capacity.
People are...well... people. They're not distancing as much as they should be. It's Ramadan and they're flooding to buy food without any regard for safety. Some places are better organized than others - we've been buying and freezing bread once every 10 or so days to avoid crowds at bread bakeries and buying our vegetables at the grocery store (more expensive) because produce stores are less organized. I used to get upset at people, but I feel less upset now, probably because it's looking good right now. I have resigned to "people are people, and will keep doing what people do"
Where is "here"? It would be really helpful if people would give their location when the give update posts.
Sorry. I gave my location more than once, I need to take into account that this thread is very long. Jordan. A small country, population a little over 10 million.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Grants, New Mexico is going Rogue. This is very unfortunate as things have been shaping up and it looked very likely that we would begin a phase I re-open after May 15. This could very well end up extending stay at home orders...I'm hoping not, but.....
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-grants-new-mexico-mayor-martin-hicks-showdown-police-lockdown/
We have Sheriffs of more than one county refusing to enforce the lockdown order here in Washington.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I doubt light ever finds its way to where his head's at.
Please do not give away my secret hiding place from the bat flu because we are limited on space and food.5
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