Coronavirus prep
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*edit* NM. I don't have the energy to defend that post.
Sweet dreams everyone.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »If some people don't see something, it's unpersuasive. And seeing "people not dying from a virus" or "hospitals not being overwhelmed in most places" is not "seeing something". Seeing nothing is unpersuasive.
Ann I haven't quoted your whole post and its interesting paralells to Covid 19 crisis - but yes I can see exactly this same phenomenon in area in which I work
Vaccinations: what can be seen: minor side effects like sore arm, redness, swelling, muscle ache
What can't be seen; no case of polio, tetanus, measles etc
Along with, like Covid restrictions, some The government cant tell me what to do, its not a nanny state, type thinking
So I won't get my children/myself vaccinated because I had a really sore arm afterwards and the government cant tell me what to do and and nobody gets polio/tetanus/measles these days anyway
Or as someone posted on one of my neighbor bulletin boards "We all had measles and mumps and survived nicely, we even had mumps parties. I don't know anyone who died from them"
Well, does that mean you don't take medications because you didn't know any of the people in the clinical trials?8 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »A pollster in Pennsylvania was quoted as predicting that people will look back at the shutdowns and say, “Gee, not that many people died. Was it all worth it?”
Can people seriously not wrap their heads around the fact that if "not that many people" die, it will be BECAUSE of the shutdowns? That they worked as intended?
I saw a Dr. Anthony Fauci interview where he said from a practical perspective, there are only 2 possible outcomes: mitigation efforts successfully contain spread (people complain about overreaction) & mitigation efforts fail (people complain about under-reaction). He said there is no middle ground where it sort of works and people don't complain. So he defines success as people complaining that is was no big deal and we overreacted. I took that to heart. And indeed people seriously can't wrap their heads around it. Because they prefer not to.24 -
So there was a rally in one of our towns with one person declaring "They didn't die of it....They died with it." They were all going to die within 6 months anyway. They were sick to begin with."
As my grandfather used to say, 'There's so many brains in this place because no one is using any.'
Someone in my family was very, very sick in the middle of January. On the first part of this journey when this thread started I asked if shingle/pneumonia/flu shots could help someone recover from Covid. I was clinging to hope. We had no idea what it was and we still don't.
We threw everything UP against the wall hoping that something would stick and make them well. I've been here night and day doing everything I know how to do to help them. We went to the doctor and there's been 3 rounds of antibiotics/prednisone. They've had all of their shots. Pneumonia booster shots, the works and we have an oxygen machine.
There were weeks of sitting in a recliner with that tight band around the chest feeling. I know how they were exposed; from a home business with people who don't believe in any kind of vacs for themselves or their kids. They depend on everyone else to give them protection but their doors are always wide open for business. They send their kids to school and claim religious exemption just so they don't have to have any vacs. None. Zero. Zip.
Until those antibody tests are available we won't have any idea what's really going on. My town was only given 4 tests and one was used so there's only 3 left. There's no testing and without that the numbers are so superficially low giving everyone such a false sense of security.
So many things about this mess give me a really big pinch, including 'they were all going to die anyway.' Now, I tell you true, I have a very uneasy feeling about everything opening back up.
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Diatonic12 wrote: »So there was a rally in one of our towns with one person declaring "They didn't die of it....They died with it." They were all going to die within 6 months anyway. They were sick to begin with."
As my grandfather used to say, 'There's so many brains in this place because no one is using any.'
May I steal that? (come to think of that, I've said the same for some other quotes you've posted)1 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »So there was a rally in one of our towns with one person declaring "They didn't die of it....They died with it." They were all going to die within 6 months anyway. They were sick to begin with."
As my grandfather used to say, 'There's so many brains in this place because no one is using any.'
Oh that is really stupid.
I don't think many, if any, people who died of coronavirus actually died of an unrelated heart attack or MVA or something that would count as with it rather than from it.
And obviously I don't know the details of all people who died everywhere.
I do know of the 4 who died in my state - people in their 60's and 70's who were quite fit and healthy: 2 had travelled on a cruise, 1 had travelled Interstate to a wedding, 1 had been working in a place that tourists visited.
Hardly end of life sick people who would of died in 6 months anyway
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Diatonic12 wrote: »So there was a rally in one of our towns with one person declaring "They didn't die of it....They died with it." They were all going to die within 6 months anyway. They were sick to begin with."
As my grandfather used to say, 'There's so many brains in this place because no one is using any.'
May I steal that? (come to think of that, I've said the same for some other quotes you've posted)
Go ahead. I'm a throwback to the wild, wild west and family traditions because we've been here for a very long time. Their words matter to me, especially now. We are bent on survival.4 -
Yeah, the unfortunate thing is that the initial outbreaks came in nursing homes and yeah - the ones here in Washington were in a hospice.
So I can see how people got the idea that it was only the elderly and infirm, and really if you look at the numbers it still mostly is, as far as deaths. There are a lot more cases for the younger ones, but many more deaths per case as age increases.
At least in my state the demographics are:
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus
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I'm wondering because they don't really say or explain in detail What and how are they treating these people in the hospitals or outpatients. What kind of meds are they giving them. They don't say. Prednisone and standard antibiotics, breathing treatments with albuterol. Maybe they're throwing everything UP against the wall,too. I'm wondering what Rx's or standard treatments they're being given. I've heard about the oxygen on their stomach protocol and that's all we had here at home. The survivors, what Rx's were they given.2
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Chicago's latest:
60% of deaths are in people 70+
18% in people 60-69
12% in people 50-59
7% in people 40-49
Smaller percentages below that.
But as I understand it, the number of hospitalizations is not so skewed to the elderly, and people hospitalized but not on a ventilator usually recover, so running out of hospitalization space would be disastrous to the otherwise healthy or younger folks who get this. (See, e.g., Boris Johnson in the ICU.)
Current IL numbers on available hospital or ICU beds is pretty good, and interestingly enough less bad in Chicago (where the largest number of cases are focused) than elsewhere in the state, likely because urban areas often have more hospitals, etc.
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I don't think you can order COVID-19 tests from the internet currently.6
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Interestingly we have more women infected in Italy, but more men die from the virus.2
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snowflake954 wrote: »Interestingly we have more women infected in Italy, but more men die from the virus.
Yeah, my graphs above show the same stats.
I figured 1. There are more women who are likely to go and get tested. Probably there are generally more women than men in the older age brackets and 2. Men are more likely to be out of the home and in more risky professions that include inhaling contaminants, but are also more likely to drink and smoke and not eat very well and not really take as many precautions about basic health. Seems to be some kind of weird macho thing.
Additionally, in our area older people are being tested at a higher rate than younger. Younger people are being advised to stay home if they feel sick and only go for testing if they get seriously ill.4 -
I don't think you can order COVID-19 tests from the internet currently.
You can order anything from the internet, I think.
Legally?
That actually works (valid, reliable)?
Well . . . maybe we can't be picky about details.
People are desperate. Other people will exploit that.
It's like the "cancer cures" gray-to-black market, where the US federal and state governments, in normal times, do a fairly speedy and aggressive job playing whack-a-mole. But a new one pops up every minute. I assume the COVID tests (and cures) will have a lot of that, even if/after genuine ones become available, let alone now.6 -
You know what is crazy? The original ship 🚢 of the damned still has active and critical cases.2
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I can't remember where i heard this, mainstreem news is all I hear. The cause of higher male deaths were considered to have something to do with the single x chromosome, women having two therefore the female body has two immume imputs thought one is usually dominant. (UK) Testing is really difficult more or less everywhere. The comodidites needed to create, is it the reagents are depleated because its an international need. Another issue is the accuracy of the tests where the tests are inaccurate there is a greater risk of spread. Regretably there are always people who will try to make money off the backs of desperate people.
Here in the last couple of days testing has been opened up to keyworkers and family members who are symptomatic, the sites have been over subscribed. The expectation is as number of testing opportunities increase and those being tested things should eventually balance out. There needs to be something by way of support given to those who put the" care and support of our societies" before themselves, if this is all we can offer at least for now, its a relief.
Best wishes to everyone, keep safe.2 -
So, yesterday my state (Tennessee) had its largest single-day increase in number of cases so far. Day after tomorrow the state reopens. In what universe does this make sense?18
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rheddmobile wrote: »So, yesterday my state (Tennessee) had its largest single-day increase in number of cases so far. Day after tomorrow the state reopens. In what universe does this make sense?
I was thinking the same thing. It seems way too early.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »If some people don't see something, it's unpersuasive. And seeing "people not dying from a virus" or "hospitals not being overwhelmed in most places" is not "seeing something". Seeing nothing is unpersuasive.
Ann I haven't quoted your whole post and its interesting paralells to Covid 19 crisis - but yes I can see exactly this same phenomenon in area in which I work
Vaccinations: what can be seen: minor side effects like sore arm, redness, swelling, muscle ache
What can't be seen; no case of polio, tetanus, measles etc
Along with, like Covid restrictions, some The government cant tell me what to do, its not a nanny state, type thinking
So I won't get my children/myself vaccinated because I had a really sore arm afterwards and the government cant tell me what to do and and nobody gets polio/tetanus/measles these days anyway
Interesting you mention "The government cant tell me what to do". I don't live in the USA but in conversation with my wife i predicted that Americans would protest the restrictions. The overriding claim of liberty, freedom, and rights, would never tolerate lockdowns and curfews like everybody else in the world. Now the protests have started. And the freedom to "do as I please" will be everyone's downfall.9 -
I'm so sad. This is terrible. I am worried about my American friends. I'm so glad my father that wanted to move there didn't and ended up in Australia.15
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You are so lovely disagree person. I won't say more. You only care about yourself apparently.8
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paperpudding wrote: »If some people don't see something, it's unpersuasive. And seeing "people not dying from a virus" or "hospitals not being overwhelmed in most places" is not "seeing something". Seeing nothing is unpersuasive.
Ann I haven't quoted your whole post and its interesting paralells to Covid 19 crisis - but yes I can see exactly this same phenomenon in area in which I work
Vaccinations: what can be seen: minor side effects like sore arm, redness, swelling, muscle ache
What can't be seen; no case of polio, tetanus, measles etc
Along with, like Covid restrictions, some The government cant tell me what to do, its not a nanny state, type thinking
So I won't get my children/myself vaccinated because I had a really sore arm afterwards and the government cant tell me what to do and and nobody gets polio/tetanus/measles these days anyway
Interesting you mention "The government cant tell me what to do". I don't live in the USA but in conversation with my wife i predicted that Americans would protest the restrictions. The overriding claim of liberty, freedom, and rights, would never tolerate lockdowns and curfews like everybody else in the world. Now the protests have started. And the freedom to "do as I please" will be everyone's downfall.
Just to clarify - I dont live in USA either - and to be honest my words were paraphrased - but we do get similar complaints here in Australia too - especially since the govt brought in No jab No pay policy
You dont get family allowance or child care rebate payments unless your children are vaccinated to the standard schedule. (medical exemptions aside)
Most child care centres wont let you enrol either.
Which I think is fair enough - adults can make their own decisions: children cannot.
As of May 1st anyone visiting nursing homes has to show proof of influenza vaccination too.
Sorry, I digress.
Return to the program now......
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Well, I think that there is a subset of Americans that are just rebels. I find it hard to believe that the rest of the world doesn't have these people too. It's not exactly a rare human mutation to make one's own decisions, and damn the consequences.
Now, would anyone I know admit to being rebellious in polite company? Probably not, but I have heard some of the comments when people think no one is listening.
It's complicated. And then there is the fact that most people don't live alone so they really have no control over even their own household safety and they know they're going to be exposed at some point. People are dumb. Me included. I am super scared and washing groceries and quarantining fruit and rotating jackets and shoes and wearing a mask and TRYING to stay 6 feet away - BUT I still am not doing everything I should be doing 100% of the time because there is no way to do so. I can easily understand the "rip the bandaid off" people, because there really is no way to contain this at this point - maybe there never was. I'm putting my money on Mother Nature. I think she is going to win this round, and definitely Round Two. She has a brick in her glove.6 -
Here's a pic from Huntington Beach in CA from today. Yeah, I think people have given up on social distancing, at least at the beaches here. I grew up between HB and Newport Beach in CA and while this isn't crowded by many standards, I don't think folks are really obeying the rules here. No clue what that might mean but as a 70 year old, I kind of think I'm going to be staying home for a long time even though I'd love nothing better than to go to the beach.
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Yeah guess I can't talk. I'm kind of rebelious sometimes. I just want everyone to be ok. I was doing the washing the groceries too and now stopped and the leaving it to sit for a few days. Over it all. I feel I was a bit paranoid really about how clean everything was if I left the house. That is not good. I feel better I've let it go a bit now.0
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yes I'm sure rebelliousness is not confined to USA- and obviously there are degrees too.
from mass protests to the person who just went to the shop for a non essential item or excercised for 5 mins more than the allowed time or whatever minor infraction applies to rules where you live
I am unaware of any actual group protests here like I have seen in US though.
whether that says we are less rebellious, less organised, just less of us - who knows?
also of course we are not at the "'there is no way to contain it at this point" place here - in SA where I live it is contained, and new cases are down to single figures in the last week - total new cases for the week was 3, I think. Only 33 active cases remain in the state. (all in isolation, of course)
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fitlulu4150 wrote: »Here's a pic from Huntington Beach in CA from today. Yeah, I think people have given up on social distancing, at least at the beaches here. I grew up between HB and Newport Beach in CA and while this isn't crowded by many standards, I don't think folks are really obeying the rules here. No clue what that might mean but as a 70 year old, I kind of think I'm going to be staying home for a long time even though I'd love nothing better than to go to the beach.
Wow. That is just so wrong.4 -
paperpudding wrote: »yes I'm sure rebelliousness is not confined to USA- and obviously there are degrees too.
from mass protests to the person who just went to the shop for a non essential item or excercised for 5 mins more than the allowed time or whatever minor infraction applies to rules where you live
I am unaware of any actual group protests here like I have seen in US though.
whether that says we are less rebellious, less organised, just less of us - who knows?
also of course we are not at the "'there is no way to contain it at this point" place here - in SA where I live it is contained, and new cases are down to single figures in the last week - total new cases for the week was 3, I think. Only 33 active cases remain in the state. (all in isolation, of course)
Last time I checked we've had zero here new cases in in 2 or 3 weeks. No deaths yet. No one in hospital right now. I don't really like our government but they are doing something right. Only cases are from overseas travellers.1 -
I'm not sure how the US protests are being reported in other countries, but sometimes I feel like media in one country don't necessarily get the full picture across exactly proportional to reality, when they're covering stories in another country. (I'm not saying "other countries get the US wrong", I'm saying media in many countries are a little off-tone sometimes when reporting on countries that are not their own.)
I believe that the protest in Lansing, Michigan, US, was one of the larger ones in the US, if not the largest so far. (I live in Michigan, near Lansing.)
The largest estimate I've seen so far of participation in the Lansing protest was around 4,000 people. The organizers, in advance, predicted 15,000. Most of the actual protesters were in vehicles, though something in the low hundreds of people seem to have been on foot in the vicinity of the capitol building. As far as I can tell (this part is difficult) a very small number of those were openly carrying or brandishing guns. Very clearly, people came to the protest from a wide swath of the state, based on media interviews and signs. It's unclear to me what proportion were fairly local, vs. outstate.
For scale, the population of Lansing (city, not greater metro area) is around 118,000 (as of 2018 estimates). The population of the state is around 9.98 million (as of 2019 estimates).
A recent survey estimated that 57% of state residents approve of Governor Whitmer's handling of the coronavirus crisis, and 37% disapprove. It's unclear to me how sound that survey was, but other reasonably non-partisan sources seem to have found numbers that also suggest approval outweighs disapproval. (Again, hard to tell for certain.)
Just as a point of comparison, from what most people would expect to be a different part of the political spectrum, the 2017 Women's March in Lansing, which also drew from across the state, was estimated to have had 8,000-9,000 participants. (Of course there was no virus or lockdown at that point, which would influence numbers.)
Please understand: I'm trying simply to report facts, as reported in reasonably non-partisan publications. I'm not trying to make a political point.
The point I am trying to make is to put this into some kind of scale or proportion, for people who live elsewhere. The actual protesters in the coronavirus lockdown protest in Michigan seem to have been about 0.04% of Michigan's population, more or less, as best I can tell. I am sure that there are people who agreed with them, but who stayed home. I'm sure that fear of the virus itself, and the lockdown, will have limited participation, despite the nature of the protest.
Regardless, if in other places these protests are coming across as a major slice of our state or national behavior . . . well, I dunno.
People may argue these numbers. I think it would be hard to make a defensible argument from anything but fringe sources that the magnitude of these numbers is way, way off.
News is news because it's unusual, therefore notable, often. No matter how you slice it, the overwhelming number of people here did not participate in the "mass protest".
We have non-mask-wearers and park-social-distance-violators and house-partiers just as people are reporting elsewhere in the country and world. More? Fewer? Don't know.7 -
rheddmobile wrote: »So, yesterday my state (Tennessee) had its largest single-day increase in number of cases so far. Day after tomorrow the state reopens. In what universe does this make sense?
The political universe. It would really be more surprising if you did not open.1
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