Coronavirus prep
Replies
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You are so lovely disagree person. I won't say more. You only care about yourself apparently.8
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paperpudding wrote: »If some people don't see something, it's unpersuasive. And seeing "people not dying from a virus" or "hospitals not being overwhelmed in most places" is not "seeing something". Seeing nothing is unpersuasive.
Ann I haven't quoted your whole post and its interesting paralells to Covid 19 crisis - but yes I can see exactly this same phenomenon in area in which I work
Vaccinations: what can be seen: minor side effects like sore arm, redness, swelling, muscle ache
What can't be seen; no case of polio, tetanus, measles etc
Along with, like Covid restrictions, some The government cant tell me what to do, its not a nanny state, type thinking
So I won't get my children/myself vaccinated because I had a really sore arm afterwards and the government cant tell me what to do and and nobody gets polio/tetanus/measles these days anyway
Interesting you mention "The government cant tell me what to do". I don't live in the USA but in conversation with my wife i predicted that Americans would protest the restrictions. The overriding claim of liberty, freedom, and rights, would never tolerate lockdowns and curfews like everybody else in the world. Now the protests have started. And the freedom to "do as I please" will be everyone's downfall.
Just to clarify - I dont live in USA either - and to be honest my words were paraphrased - but we do get similar complaints here in Australia too - especially since the govt brought in No jab No pay policy
You dont get family allowance or child care rebate payments unless your children are vaccinated to the standard schedule. (medical exemptions aside)
Most child care centres wont let you enrol either.
Which I think is fair enough - adults can make their own decisions: children cannot.
As of May 1st anyone visiting nursing homes has to show proof of influenza vaccination too.
Sorry, I digress.
Return to the program now......
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Well, I think that there is a subset of Americans that are just rebels. I find it hard to believe that the rest of the world doesn't have these people too. It's not exactly a rare human mutation to make one's own decisions, and damn the consequences.
Now, would anyone I know admit to being rebellious in polite company? Probably not, but I have heard some of the comments when people think no one is listening.
It's complicated. And then there is the fact that most people don't live alone so they really have no control over even their own household safety and they know they're going to be exposed at some point. People are dumb. Me included. I am super scared and washing groceries and quarantining fruit and rotating jackets and shoes and wearing a mask and TRYING to stay 6 feet away - BUT I still am not doing everything I should be doing 100% of the time because there is no way to do so. I can easily understand the "rip the bandaid off" people, because there really is no way to contain this at this point - maybe there never was. I'm putting my money on Mother Nature. I think she is going to win this round, and definitely Round Two. She has a brick in her glove.6 -
Here's a pic from Huntington Beach in CA from today. Yeah, I think people have given up on social distancing, at least at the beaches here. I grew up between HB and Newport Beach in CA and while this isn't crowded by many standards, I don't think folks are really obeying the rules here. No clue what that might mean but as a 70 year old, I kind of think I'm going to be staying home for a long time even though I'd love nothing better than to go to the beach.
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Yeah guess I can't talk. I'm kind of rebelious sometimes. I just want everyone to be ok. I was doing the washing the groceries too and now stopped and the leaving it to sit for a few days. Over it all. I feel I was a bit paranoid really about how clean everything was if I left the house. That is not good. I feel better I've let it go a bit now.0
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yes I'm sure rebelliousness is not confined to USA- and obviously there are degrees too.
from mass protests to the person who just went to the shop for a non essential item or excercised for 5 mins more than the allowed time or whatever minor infraction applies to rules where you live
I am unaware of any actual group protests here like I have seen in US though.
whether that says we are less rebellious, less organised, just less of us - who knows?
also of course we are not at the "'there is no way to contain it at this point" place here - in SA where I live it is contained, and new cases are down to single figures in the last week - total new cases for the week was 3, I think. Only 33 active cases remain in the state. (all in isolation, of course)
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fitlulu4150 wrote: »Here's a pic from Huntington Beach in CA from today. Yeah, I think people have given up on social distancing, at least at the beaches here. I grew up between HB and Newport Beach in CA and while this isn't crowded by many standards, I don't think folks are really obeying the rules here. No clue what that might mean but as a 70 year old, I kind of think I'm going to be staying home for a long time even though I'd love nothing better than to go to the beach.
Wow. That is just so wrong.4 -
paperpudding wrote: »yes I'm sure rebelliousness is not confined to USA- and obviously there are degrees too.
from mass protests to the person who just went to the shop for a non essential item or excercised for 5 mins more than the allowed time or whatever minor infraction applies to rules where you live
I am unaware of any actual group protests here like I have seen in US though.
whether that says we are less rebellious, less organised, just less of us - who knows?
also of course we are not at the "'there is no way to contain it at this point" place here - in SA where I live it is contained, and new cases are down to single figures in the last week - total new cases for the week was 3, I think. Only 33 active cases remain in the state. (all in isolation, of course)
Last time I checked we've had zero here new cases in in 2 or 3 weeks. No deaths yet. No one in hospital right now. I don't really like our government but they are doing something right. Only cases are from overseas travellers.1 -
I'm not sure how the US protests are being reported in other countries, but sometimes I feel like media in one country don't necessarily get the full picture across exactly proportional to reality, when they're covering stories in another country. (I'm not saying "other countries get the US wrong", I'm saying media in many countries are a little off-tone sometimes when reporting on countries that are not their own.)
I believe that the protest in Lansing, Michigan, US, was one of the larger ones in the US, if not the largest so far. (I live in Michigan, near Lansing.)
The largest estimate I've seen so far of participation in the Lansing protest was around 4,000 people. The organizers, in advance, predicted 15,000. Most of the actual protesters were in vehicles, though something in the low hundreds of people seem to have been on foot in the vicinity of the capitol building. As far as I can tell (this part is difficult) a very small number of those were openly carrying or brandishing guns. Very clearly, people came to the protest from a wide swath of the state, based on media interviews and signs. It's unclear to me what proportion were fairly local, vs. outstate.
For scale, the population of Lansing (city, not greater metro area) is around 118,000 (as of 2018 estimates). The population of the state is around 9.98 million (as of 2019 estimates).
A recent survey estimated that 57% of state residents approve of Governor Whitmer's handling of the coronavirus crisis, and 37% disapprove. It's unclear to me how sound that survey was, but other reasonably non-partisan sources seem to have found numbers that also suggest approval outweighs disapproval. (Again, hard to tell for certain.)
Just as a point of comparison, from what most people would expect to be a different part of the political spectrum, the 2017 Women's March in Lansing, which also drew from across the state, was estimated to have had 8,000-9,000 participants. (Of course there was no virus or lockdown at that point, which would influence numbers.)
Please understand: I'm trying simply to report facts, as reported in reasonably non-partisan publications. I'm not trying to make a political point.
The point I am trying to make is to put this into some kind of scale or proportion, for people who live elsewhere. The actual protesters in the coronavirus lockdown protest in Michigan seem to have been about 0.04% of Michigan's population, more or less, as best I can tell. I am sure that there are people who agreed with them, but who stayed home. I'm sure that fear of the virus itself, and the lockdown, will have limited participation, despite the nature of the protest.
Regardless, if in other places these protests are coming across as a major slice of our state or national behavior . . . well, I dunno.
People may argue these numbers. I think it would be hard to make a defensible argument from anything but fringe sources that the magnitude of these numbers is way, way off.
News is news because it's unusual, therefore notable, often. No matter how you slice it, the overwhelming number of people here did not participate in the "mass protest".
We have non-mask-wearers and park-social-distance-violators and house-partiers just as people are reporting elsewhere in the country and world. More? Fewer? Don't know.7 -
rheddmobile wrote: »So, yesterday my state (Tennessee) had its largest single-day increase in number of cases so far. Day after tomorrow the state reopens. In what universe does this make sense?
The political universe. It would really be more surprising if you did not open.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »If some people don't see something, it's unpersuasive. And seeing "people not dying from a virus" or "hospitals not being overwhelmed in most places" is not "seeing something". Seeing nothing is unpersuasive.
Ann I haven't quoted your whole post and its interesting paralells to Covid 19 crisis - but yes I can see exactly this same phenomenon in area in which I work
Vaccinations: what can be seen: minor side effects like sore arm, redness, swelling, muscle ache
What can't be seen; no case of polio, tetanus, measles etc
Along with, like Covid restrictions, some The government cant tell me what to do, its not a nanny state, type thinking
So I won't get my children/myself vaccinated because I had a really sore arm afterwards and the government cant tell me what to do and and nobody gets polio/tetanus/measles these days anyway
Interesting you mention "The government cant tell me what to do". I don't live in the USA but in conversation with my wife i predicted that Americans would protest the restrictions. The overriding claim of liberty, freedom, and rights, would never tolerate lockdowns and curfews like everybody else in the world. Now the protests have started. And the freedom to "do as I please" will be everyone's downfall.
I reread Connie Willis's The Doomsday Book at the beginning of all this, and recommend it in general for anyone who likes time travel fiction, but there also are some interesting parallels to the current situation, including Americans not accepting quarantine (and allegedly not having done so with a virus epidemic in the 21st century).
We actually are doing better than I think the book projects.0 -
I'm not sure how the US protests are being reported in other countries, but sometimes I feel like media in one country don't necessarily get the full picture across exactly proportional to reality, when they're covering stories in another country. (I'm not saying "other countries get the US wrong", I'm saying media in many countries are a little off-tone sometimes when reporting on countries that are not their own.)
I believe that the protest in Lansing, Michigan, US, was one of the larger ones in the US, if not the largest so far. (I live in Michigan, near Lansing.)
From what I've heard the one in IL (in Springfield) was about 20 people, so I am not taking it all that seriously. I think it's basically an ill-designed Trump rally.
Also this: https://www.businessinsider.com/michiganders-approve-of-whitmer-on-coronavirus-despite-protests-poll-2020-4
And as noted before, I respect Ohio's governor DeWine, who is doing what he thinks is right (even if he is an OSU fan, but that's not as bad as being an MSU fan). ;-)2 -
Ann, yes I get that the number of people protesting is quite a small percentage (and not sure where the brandishing guns part came in?) - nevertheless - again reporting facts - there have been no such group protests that I know of in Australia of any size.
Individual people breaking rules in relatively small ways - having illegal parties, doing non essential travel, etc - yes they are here as in all countries.
and there have been fines for non compliance
But organised protests of any sort - none that I have heard of.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »Ann, yes I get that the number of people protesting is quite a small percentage (and not sure where the brandishing guns part came in?) - nevertheless - again reporting facts - there have been no such group protests that I know of in Australia of any size.
Individual people breaking rules in relatively small ways - having illegal parties, doing non essential travel, etc - yes they are here as in all countries.
and there have been fines for non compliance
But organised protests of any sort - none that I have heard of.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/dozens-attend-anti-coronavirus-lockdown-protest-in-regional-victoria
Here.
(And the brandishing of guns and -- of all things -- confederate flags cause me to take it non seriously in the northern midwest. I don't think normal people in the northern midwest think the confederate flag stands for much more than racism or the death of their ancestors in the CW. I know a heck of a lot of my own relatives and ancestors died for the USA in fighting against the Confederacy and for people in the north to fly that flag upsets me. But then I live in a neighborhood named after Lincoln and wouldn't have thought he was controversial or that saying the USA was right in the CW is a political comment. If so, I'm honestly disgusted.)9 -
There looks to be a handful of people protesting in Victoria. Honestly no one is chucking tantrums over here hardly at all. First time I've heard of any too. There is nothing to protest over. We just need to be safe and not get the virus. End of story.6
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paperpudding wrote: »Ann, yes I get that the number of people protesting is quite a small percentage (and not sure where the brandishing guns part came in?) - nevertheless - again reporting facts - there have been no such group protests that I know of in Australia of any size.
Individual people breaking rules in relatively small ways - having illegal parties, doing non essential travel, etc - yes they are here as in all countries.
and there have been fines for non compliance
But organised protests of any sort - none that I have heard of.
I had and have no intention to suggest that any protests are (or aren't) taking place anywhere else in the world: I don't know. And I'm not trying to deny the US ones. I'm not even trying to minimize them, or defend them: I'm just trying to provide some idea of scale, within their context.
It has just not been clear to me that others elsewhere understood how really small the actual protests have been, in numbers. The coverage has been quite dramatic, even in the US. I have no idea how it looks from abroad. My concern was that it may look like a bigger deal than it actually is.
I mentioned the gun aspect because that was covered in a very splashy way in some sources here, and I wasn't sure how it might have been portrayed (if at all) abroad.6 -
The Memphis protest had like three guys at it. It rained, and no one was invested enough in the protest to get wet. One of the three wasn’t even from here, he drove in from Fayette county.
The few protesters we do have in Tennessee are a nasty breed, however. Nashville had some chick with a sign that said “Sacrifice the Weak.” Sign went viral. I always wonder, don’t any of these people have elderly parents? Or do they just really not like them much?4 -
paperpudding wrote: »yes I'm sure rebelliousness is not confined to USA- and obviously there are degrees too.
from mass protests to the person who just went to the shop for a non essential item or excercised for 5 mins more than the allowed time or whatever minor infraction applies to rules where you live
I am unaware of any actual group protests here like I have seen in US though.
whether that says we are less rebellious, less organised, just less of us - who knows?
also of course we are not at the "'there is no way to contain it at this point" place here - in SA where I live it is contained, and new cases are down to single figures in the last week - total new cases for the week was 3, I think. Only 33 active cases remain in the state. (all in isolation, of course)
Last time I checked we've had zero here new cases in in 2 or 3 weeks. No deaths yet. No one in hospital right now. I don't really like our government but they are doing something right. Only cases are from overseas travellers.
can i ask where your here is?0 -
I can't remember where i heard this, mainstreem news is all I hear. The cause of higher male deaths were considered to have something to do with the single x chromosome, women having two therefore the female body has two immume imputs thought one is usually dominant.
I read an article about this as well. I think it was in the NY Times or the Atlantic. I'm thinking a week or more back, but I find that "corona-time" is distorted, and most things feel like they were longer ago than they actually were, possibly because the news changes so quickly.
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paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »yes I'm sure rebelliousness is not confined to USA- and obviously there are degrees too.
from mass protests to the person who just went to the shop for a non essential item or excercised for 5 mins more than the allowed time or whatever minor infraction applies to rules where you live
I am unaware of any actual group protests here like I have seen in US though.
whether that says we are less rebellious, less organised, just less of us - who knows?
also of course we are not at the "'there is no way to contain it at this point" place here - in SA where I live it is contained, and new cases are down to single figures in the last week - total new cases for the week was 3, I think. Only 33 active cases remain in the state. (all in isolation, of course)
Last time I checked we've had zero here new cases in in 2 or 3 weeks. No deaths yet. No one in hospital right now. I don't really like our government but they are doing something right. Only cases are from overseas travellers.
can i ask where your here is?
I believe Sue is Queensland.0
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