Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
To Keto or Not To Keto?
Replies
-
In my honest opinion, I don't think any diet is necessarily bad or good if your overall goal is just to simply lose weight. Many people find success in a wide variety of diet plans (intermittent fasting, all natural diet, vegan diet, keto diet, traditional diets).
I think the important thing is moreso to find a diet that you can stick to and will keep you at a caloric deficit. Losing weight is pretty simple if you're just talking about moving the scale, calories in calories out. Just find a diet that you think you can stick to without being miserable. If a diet makes you miserable, you'll probably give up.6 -
I know any diet works if you can keep your calories controlled while on it, but keto is the only one that just seems genuinely unhealthy to me. I just can't imagine a diet where you have to give up so many things that are objectively good for humans to eat as not having some kind of side effects. And it doesn't help that people seem to mainly get excited about it because they lose ten pounds instantly or whatever when all that indicates to me is they haven't read up on it and don't know what water weight is.5
-
I know any diet works if you can keep your calories controlled while on it, but keto is the only one that just seems genuinely unhealthy to me. I just can't imagine a diet where you have to give up so many things that are objectively good for humans to eat as not having some kind of side effects. And it doesn't help that people seem to mainly get excited about it because they lose ten pounds instantly or whatever when all that indicates to me is they haven't read up on it and don't know what water weight is.
Can you expand what you think is unhealthy? I would argue my keto diet is probably healthier than most peoples diets. Like with all diets, there are healthy and unhealthy ways to implement.12 -
I just firmly believe a varied diet is important. Fruit, legumes, potatoes, sweet potatoes, oats, just as a short list...and other whole grains obviously...all these foods full of fiber and nutrition that are among the healthiest things humans can eat and that entire civilizations have been founded on, just being completely eliminated from your eating choices, forever. It's an extreme way of living and I'm not sure what the purpose is if the goal is simply weight control.10
-
I just firmly believe a varied diet is important. Fruit, legumes, potatoes, sweet potatoes, oats, just as a short list...and other whole grains obviously...all these foods full of fiber and nutrition that are among the healthiest things humans can eat and that entire civilizations have been founded on, just being completely eliminated from your eating choices, forever. It's an extreme way of living and I'm not sure what the purpose is if the goal is simply weight control.
I would note, i have a fairly varied diet. I just happen to limit grains, starches and high GI fruits. All things they aren't required in a diet. And while we could argue the civilization aspect, the fact is, diets varied based on location.
I eat a variety of meats (ground beef, various cuts of beef, chicken (thighs, wings, and breast), turkey, lamb, venison); eggs; dairy (mainly low fat Greek yogurt, cream and Irish butter); low gi fruits (blackberries, strawberries, raspberries); vegetables (avocado, onions, peppers, zucchini, spinach/salad mixes); fish (Ahi, salmon, mahi mahi); nuts/seeds (chia, peanut, pumpkin, macadamia, walnut, hazelnut); and oils (avocado and olive). So almost zero added sugar. I still focus on fiber and i focus on whole foods. On top of my diet, i do refeeds and occasionally diet breaks (like this weekend). So i would certainly argue the one can have a very healthy Ketogenic diet if done properly.17 -
mmebouchon wrote: »New to trying keto but I am doing it not so I can eat unlimited fat and meat but to try and regulate my hunger. It is difficult for me because I love fruit and veggies (especially fruit) If anything think I have an unhealthy relationship with fat, having been raised believing it was bad. The keto diet is forcing me to eat more healthy fats and more protein in an effort to meet my macros. It is still way too soon in my journey to know if it will work for me or not but I am giving it a try.
I don't think there's anything wrong with keto if done healthfully, but in your shoes -- and if you haven't already -- I'd try just lowering carbs and increasing fats and protein. If you are a big carb eater and were eating too few healthy fats and not enough protein, often something like setting protein for 0.8 g/lb of a healthy goal weight (what is often recommended for keto too), and then carbs at 40% or less and then reducing from there if hunger is still an issue, and then treating your fat as a goal rather than a limit can be an approach. (And some find fiber is more important than any macros for hunger, while others find meal timing makes a difference for them.) Cutting out (or almost out) something as healthy as fruit if you love it seems like a shame, and there are many in-between approaches.
Thanks for your reply lemurcat2. I seem to be following what might be a low carb diet instead of keto. I try to stay under 50 net carbs and it has eliminated my hunger between meals. It has helped me to add in some extra fats in my diet. More olive oil and avocados for sure. I have never been a big carb eater except I think I was over consuming sweet fruits. The fantastic thing about reducing carbs for me has been paying more attention to net carbs in various fruit and veggies and picking which ones I will eat based on my daily quota. I don’t think I have reduced the amount of servings I am eating of fruit and veggies together but I have definitely increased my low carb veggies3 -
I eat a variety of meats (ground beef, various cuts of beef, chicken (thighs, wings, and breast), turkey, lamb, venison); eggs; dairy (mainly low fat Greek yogurt, cream and Irish butter); low gi fruits (blackberries, strawberries, raspberries); vegetables (avocado, onions, peppers, zucchini, spinach/salad mixes); fish (Ahi, salmon, mahi mahi); nuts/seeds (chia, peanut, pumpkin, macadamia, walnut, hazelnut); and oils (avocado and olive). So almost zero added sugar. I still focus on fiber and i focus on whole foods. On top of my diet, i do refeeds and occasionally diet breaks (like this weekend). So i would certainly argue the one can have a very healthy Ketogenic diet if done properly.
psuLemon this list of low carb food that you enjoy is very helpful.4 -
mmebouchon wrote: »I eat a variety of meats (ground beef, various cuts of beef, chicken (thighs, wings, and breast), turkey, lamb, venison); eggs; dairy (mainly low fat Greek yogurt, cream and Irish butter); low gi fruits (blackberries, strawberries, raspberries); vegetables (avocado, onions, peppers, zucchini, spinach/salad mixes); fish (Ahi, salmon, mahi mahi); nuts/seeds (chia, peanut, pumpkin, macadamia, walnut, hazelnut); and oils (avocado and olive). So almost zero added sugar. I still focus on fiber and i focus on whole foods. On top of my diet, i do refeeds and occasionally diet breaks (like this weekend). So i would certainly argue the one can have a very healthy Ketogenic diet if done properly.
psuLemon this list of low carb food that you enjoy is very helpful.
No problem. Feel free to know you can certainly add more protein and less fats. I tend to get 50-60% fat (sometimes less) and more protein. The only thing required for ketosis is carb suppression.4 -
mmebouchon wrote: »I eat a variety of meats (ground beef, various cuts of beef, chicken (thighs, wings, and breast), turkey, lamb, venison); eggs; dairy (mainly low fat Greek yogurt, cream and Irish butter); low gi fruits (blackberries, strawberries, raspberries); vegetables (avocado, onions, peppers, zucchini, spinach/salad mixes); fish (Ahi, salmon, mahi mahi); nuts/seeds (chia, peanut, pumpkin, macadamia, walnut, hazelnut); and oils (avocado and olive). So almost zero added sugar. I still focus on fiber and i focus on whole foods. On top of my diet, i do refeeds and occasionally diet breaks (like this weekend). So i would certainly argue the one can have a very healthy Ketogenic diet if done properly.
psuLemon this list of low carb food that you enjoy is very helpful.
No problem. Feel free to know you can certainly add more protein and less fats. I tend to get 50-60% fat (sometimes less) and more protein. The only thing required for ketosis is carb suppression.
Good advice thanks again0 -
something broderick posted up today on FB
obviously a rodent study, would be interesting to see if it affects humans
in the same way long term
6 -
something broderick posted up today on FB
obviously a rodent study, would be interesting to see if it affects humans
in the same way long term
It's been awhile but I believe the evidence suggest a temporary impairment to glucose regulation in humans. I believe its a day or two.
Personally, my refeeds do well but if i consume high carb high fat, it seems fat accumulation comes quickly and its hard to get my weight back down.5 -
I do dirty keto usually, but I also take my pruvit ketones(my magical unicorn juice🤣) and ot makes sticking to it and losing weight a breeze.1
-
something broderick posted up today on FB
obviously a rodent study, would be interesting to see if it affects humans
in the same way long term
It's been awhile but I believe the evidence suggest a temporary impairment to glucose regulation in humans. I believe its a day or two.
Personally, my refeeds do well but if i consume high carb high fat, it seems fat accumulation comes quickly and its hard to get my weight back down.
Would be interested to see a study on long term keto in humans, I’m assuming a long term study in rodants would equate to decades for humans5 -
something broderick posted up today on FB
obviously a rodent study, would be interesting to see if it affects humans
in the same way long term
It's been awhile but I believe the evidence suggest a temporary impairment to glucose regulation in humans. I believe its a day or two.
Personally, my refeeds do well but if i consume high carb high fat, it seems fat accumulation comes quickly and its hard to get my weight back down.
Would be interested to see a study on long term keto in humans, I’m assuming a long term study in rodants would equate to decades for humans
I agree. It would be very fascinating.2 -
just_Tomek wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
What you mean why. We all know carbs are horrible and immediately add on pounds and convert into fat. Come on....... its 2020, where have you been????
Refined carbs, such as bread and pasta, are not good for you. Complex carbs, such as fruits/veg/ legumes etc, are good for you. Not all carbs are the same.3 -
I have been on Keto intermitamt fasting for 3 weeks and have lost 12 lbs. I have no carb cravings anymore.I am 70 and have a bad back so exercise is not an option for me. This seems to be working better than anything I have tried so I am sticking to it.
6 -
Peachesanddinosaur wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
What you mean why. We all know carbs are horrible and immediately add on pounds and convert into fat. Come on....... its 2020, where have you been????
Refined carbs, such as bread and pasta, are not good for you. Complex carbs, such as fruits/veg/ legumes etc, are good for you. Not all carbs are the same.
Nah - refined carbs like bread and pasta are not bad for you.
Obviously in moderation and appropriate portion sizes - but that goes for any food.
No need to polarise foods into good or bad divisions
15 -
kathyrivera01 wrote: »I have been on Keto intermitamt fasting for 3 weeks and have lost 12 lbs. I have no carb cravings anymore.I am 70 and have a bad back so exercise is not an option for me. This seems to be working better than anything I have tried so I am sticking to it.
Well, 3 weeks is not very long - but if it seems a good fit for you so far, sure, keep on with it.
Can you not do any gentle excercise like walking or swimming?
But you don't have to, you can lose weight without excercise - of course that will mean a lower calorie intake,but is doable.
1 -
Peachesanddinosaur wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
What you mean why. We all know carbs are horrible and immediately add on pounds and convert into fat. Come on....... its 2020, where have you been????
Refined carbs, such as bread and pasta, are not good for you. Complex carbs, such as fruits/veg/ legumes etc, are good for you. Not all carbs are the same.
A diet with insufficient fiber and nutrients is bad for you, not specific foods. Possibly a diet that relies too heavily on refined carbs can potentially be bad, but not the food in and of itself...11 -
Peachesanddinosaur wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
What you mean why. We all know carbs are horrible and immediately add on pounds and convert into fat. Come on....... its 2020, where have you been????
Refined carbs, such as bread and pasta, are not good for you. Complex carbs, such as fruits/veg/ legumes etc, are good for you. Not all carbs are the same.
A diet with insufficient fiber and nutrients is bad for you, not specific foods. Possibly a diet that relies too heavily on refined carbs can potentially be bad, but not the food in and of itself...
Coming from someone who follows keto, i would say there are plenty of high quality breads out there. Its more of an issue when you crowd out a diet with things like white bread.4 -
Peachesanddinosaur wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
What you mean why. We all know carbs are horrible and immediately add on pounds and convert into fat. Come on....... its 2020, where have you been????
Refined carbs, such as bread and pasta, are not good for you. Complex carbs, such as fruits/veg/ legumes etc, are good for you. Not all carbs are the same.
Technically, complex carbs = starches, and simple carbs = sugars. The cals in breads and pasta (refined or no, a whole grain bread isn't usually considered refined) are from complex carbs, and the cals in fruit are from simple carbs.
You can't say that something -- especially something that has long been a staple food in many parts of the world, like bread and pasta -- is not good for you without considering overall diet and dosage. If the bread crowds out other nutrients or leads to too many cals, then the amount you are eating is not good for you.
Personally, I think a more informed way to approach diet is to focus on the foods that you know you need to be eating -- foods like veg, protein sources, and sources of healthy fats, as well as those with fiber -- and then rely on things like pasta (or cheese or whatever you like) to fill out your cals or make meals tastier.
If one enjoys keto, there's nothing wrong with giving up higher carb foods so long as you also focus on eating a healthful diet, of course -- personally I don't eat low carb but rarely eat bread since it's usually not worth the cals for me (I do eat pasta and potatoes and corn, etc., as well as fruit, veg, and legumes) -- but claiming that whether or not one eats bread and pasta determines if one has a healthy diet or not is a poor approach to nutrition, IMO.
(And Tomek was rather obviously being sarcastic.)13 -
Peachesanddinosaur wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
What you mean why. We all know carbs are horrible and immediately add on pounds and convert into fat. Come on....... its 2020, where have you been????
Refined carbs, such as bread and pasta, are not good for you. Complex carbs, such as fruits/veg/ legumes etc, are good for you. Not all carbs are the same.
The demonizing of perfectly good foods like bread is one of the weirdest things about our time. We're so divorced from a normal food culture (in some parts of the West) that these bizarre contrarian ideas catch on and we wind up rejecting things like . . . bread instead of just having it in portion sizes that fit our calorie goals and don't crowd out the rest of what we need (like we should be doing with all foods).13 -
There are many ways to lose weight... which is lucky because many of us need to do this and we are often very different.
There is no magic but there will be a way that works best for you and which you can stick to.
I am a low-carber now because that works well for me.
As is argued above, one reason it works might well be that it helps me keep a calorie-deficit without counting or obsessing.
However there is another reason; it turns out that I have a problem with carbs and dealing with that was the first step towards sustainable long-term weight-loss.
I used to be much too attached to carby foods and was always hungry for them but never satisfied.
Nothing was too sweet. I could eat cake or pasta or bread all day I could eat until the sweet stuff in sight was gone and the thought of a pack of biscuits in the cupboard or ice-cream in the freezer would weigh on me until they were eaten too. Moderation/waiting to eat was not tolerable. I would not say that I enjoyed food. It was a constant thought and a constant worry - not a pleasure.
My life has changed.
Giving up refined carbs (and most fruit) was a revelation.
1. It was amazing that I could do so at all.
2. It was even more amazing that once through the first week, I no longer craved sweet stuff... or anything else AND I could be satisfied after eating.
3. All this would have been fine on its own but I also lost weight - at first fast but then slowly. 45lb down. I've been doing this for about 2 years now and want to lost about another 9lb.
I really love food and eat lots; I just miss out the carby items that used to be in everything. It is easy - and interesting.
Right now there are bars of uneaten chocolate and cakes in the cupboard here; I have no desire to eat them (even having a few squares of chocolate with my mint tea tonight hasn't set off a craving.) I am not exercising will-power.
I think that eating like this has let me feel what it is like to be a normal person.
I get hungry for meals and enjoy them but I don't worry about eating or not-eating food all day.
Whatever works for you - I'd like to wish you all the best losses and happiness in the days ahead.13 -
goodasgoldilox165 wrote: »There are many ways to lose weight... which is lucky because many of us need to do this and we are often very different.
There is no magic but there will be a way that works best for you and which you can stick to.
I am a low-carber now because that works well for me.
As is argued above, one reason it works might well be that it helps me keep a calorie-deficit without counting or obsessing.
However there is another reason; it turns out that I have a problem with carbs and dealing with that was the first step towards sustainable long-term weight-loss.
I used to be much too attached to carby foods and was always hungry for them but never satisfied.
Nothing was too sweet. I could eat cake or pasta or bread all day I could eat until the sweet stuff in sight was gone and the thought of a pack of biscuits in the cupboard or ice-cream in the freezer would weigh on me until they were eaten too. Moderation/waiting to eat was not tolerable. I would not say that I enjoyed food. It was a constant thought and a constant worry - not a pleasure.
My life has changed.
Giving up refined carbs (and most fruit) was a revelation.
1. It was amazing that I could do so at all.
2. It was even more amazing that once through the first week, I no longer craved sweet stuff... or anything else AND I could be satisfied after eating.
3. All this would have been fine on its own but I also lost weight - at first fast but then slowly. 45lb down. I've been doing this for about 2 years now and want to lost about another 9lb.
I really love food and eat lots; I just miss out the carby items that used to be in everything. It is easy - and interesting.
Right now there are bars of uneaten chocolate and cakes in the cupboard here; I have no desire to eat them (even having a few squares of chocolate with my mint tea tonight hasn't set off a craving.) I am not exercising will-power.
I think that eating like this has let me feel what it is like to be a normal person.
I get hungry for meals and enjoy them but I don't worry about eating or not-eating food all day.
Whatever works for you - I'd like to wish you all the best losses and happiness in the days ahead.
Thanks for sharing what is working for you. I too find I get less cravings if I keep my carbs low.1 -
If you have some compelling reason to drop quick weight keto is great because you will lose fat and also deplete water weight very quickly. But long term, I think it comes out a wash with pretty much any other diet. People talk about the weight gain after. Its true in the sense that as quickly as the water depleted it comes back but I think it usually has a lot more to do with people binging carbs as they have restricted for so long ha.0
-
Keto, like any other diet, is just a fad. That doesn't mean none of 'em work in the short term, but, I think folks should be working towards a healthy lifestyle and not just weight loss. Diets don't work in the long run - one always falls off the wagon.
Instead of dieting:
Eat less
Eat Better
Move more
5 -
I am doing keto and 16/8 intermittent fasting. I’ve never felt better in my life. But I agree with others, you need to find what works for YOU. The only way to know is to give it a good try.8
-
Well, not neccesarily.
If you are already eating in a way you like I can't see the point of randomly trying something else.5 -
I've been on strict Keto and I felt great and I had a lot more energy than before Keto. I transitioned to a low carb/low sugar moderate fat I'm quite happy with it. My energy is still up, it's filling, and I'm still meeting my goals. Two things I have noticed about my body between Keto and my current way of eating ... 1) I only have that afternoon crash when I eat carbs 2) I have gas only when I eat carbs. I plan to continue my way of eating because overall it's good for me. Its sustainable for me.3
-
mullanphylane wrote: »Keto, like any other diet, is just a fad. That doesn't mean none of 'em work in the short term, but, I think folks should be working towards a healthy lifestyle and not just weight loss. Diets don't work in the long run - one always falls off the wagon.
Instead of dieting:
Eat less
Eat Better
Move more
I suppose 'Keto' is more extreme but don't think that low-carbing (high fat-low carb) is a fad.
It is popular at the moment (so might seem like one) but isn't really all that new.
I seem to be eating like my grandmother and great-grandmother and they were both slim, fit and long-lived. They didn't have access to much processed food and enjoyed sweet things very occasionally (in season) rather than every day. Their everyday foods are on my menus.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions