Coronavirus prep

SummerSkier · July 2020

meanwhile in the US I shudder as I see all the facebook posts of big family get togethers for the holiday..... just scrolling right by but it's hard to see.

missysippy930 · July 2020

Last 4th, an outbreak of e coli occurred in people partying off Big Island in a metro area popular lake. This year, they were partying there again in big numbers. Not much regard for masks, or social distancing. Boats parked right next to each other. A young couple interviewed on the news said, “we’re young and healthy, and want to have fun. We’ll be fine”.😳

GaleHawkins · July 2020

I had a 20 year old educate me on the COVID-19 parties last week. It seems they put money in a pool and the first one that tests positive wins the money in the pool. Ethically a researcher could not do that so this group is giving some feed back to COVID-19 ad hoc research. Yesterday we had to drive 50 miles to the Lowe's in Paducah KY to get two identical full height pantry kitchen cabinets and face mask usage was very high especially in the 60+ age group. Yesterday I read based on known testing results it is estimated there are 100,000 new cases daily currently in the USA so that is a million more new cases every 10 days.

The mental health side of COVID-19 may long term be worse the actually getting the disease. I see Columbus had his head removed and tossed into the harbor in Boston.

https://msn.com/en-us/news/us/masks-are-putting-people-at-each-others-throats-especially-in-palm-beach-county/ar-BB16jsXh

Some this mask no mask logic is over the top in my view. I made sure I had a mask to go out of town yesterday but when I put it own I found make-up inside of it but others could not see the make-up.

T1DCarnivoreRunner · July 2020

SummerSkier wrote: »

meanwhile in the US I shudder as I see all the facebook posts of big family get togethers for the holiday..... just scrolling right by but it's hard to see.

Yes, the gatherings this weekend are going to result in more cases for sure. Where I live, most of the normal fireworks shows were cancelled. But then the county rescue squad decided to have a fireworks display for the first time since nobody else was doing one. They just suggested social distancing - didn't even mention a mask. I almost wonder if they are trying to get themselves more business.

corinasue1143 · July 2020

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

rheddmobile · July 2020

GaleHawkins wrote: »

I had a 20 year old educate me on the COVID-19 parties last week. It seems they put money in a pool and the first one that tests positive wins the money in the pool. Ethically a researcher could not do that so this group is giving some feed back to COVID-19 ad hoc research. Yesterday we had to drive 50 miles to the Lowe's in Paducah KY to get two identical full height pantry kitchen cabinets and face mask usage was very high especially in the 60+ age group. Yesterday I read based on known testing results it is estimated there are 100,000 new cases daily currently in the USA so that is a million more new cases every 10 days.

The mental health side of COVID-19 may long term be worse the actually getting the disease. I see Columbus had his head removed and tossed into the harbor in Boston.

https://msn.com/en-us/news/us/masks-are-putting-people-at-each-others-throats-especially-in-palm-beach-county/ar-BB16jsXh

Some this mask no mask logic is over the top in my view. I made sure I had a mask to go out of town yesterday but when I put it own I found make-up inside of it but others could not see the make-up.

I’m confused - were you wearing someone else’s used mask? Or do you wear makeup?

ExistingFish · July 2020

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.

Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

T1DCarnivoreRunner · July 2020

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.

Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

This article cites 2 sources showing that breathing can spread the virus: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmrp.2020.05.003

The WHO quickly walked back the claim that asymptomatic spread was rare (literally the very next day, as the scientific community had found otherwise).
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who-comments-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19/
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/who-comments-breed-confusion-over-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19-67626
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-who-asymptomatic-cases-spread

Some studies specifically looking at the asymptomatic spread:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11427-020-1661-4
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0965-6

Increasing evidence has shown that asymptomatic individuals can spread the virus efficiently, and the emergence of these silent spreaders of SARS-CoV-2 has caused difficulties in the control of the epidemic.

kimny72 · July 2020

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

I don't blame you for being uncomfortable in there! I suspect as long as you weren't in there long, your risk would probably be minimal but why risk it when there are places doing a better job? That clerk though is at great risk working all day in there and also risking whoever she was talking about visiting!

My parents are having my brother, SIL, and their two little boys over for a belated holiday dinner. It is crazy hot/humid out, so they will be inside. They invited me over, but I'll only go to either of their houses if we will be outside, so I had to decline. I'm so scared for my parents. I'm sure my nephews are playing with other kids at this point, and my parents have lost patience with distancing from them. Luckily the virus is rather scarce in our rural community right now but all it will take is one family vacationing somewhere more crowded and bringing it back here and as lax as everyone is being it will spread.

It wasn't an official WHO position that asymptomatic spread is rare. One WHO official said that in an interview, and the WHO along with many other publications disagreed right away. There are countless hotspot outbreaks that cannot be explained without clear asymptomatic spread.

rheddmobile · July 2020

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.

Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The Time article linked does not support the position you are trying to claim it does; in fact, the point of the article is the opposite, while explaining how the misconception that asymptomatic spread is rare got started. In fact multiple studies have suggested that people are most infectious a day or two before they develop symptoms.

It is also untrue that breathing does not spread the virus. There are multiple documented super-spreader cases of spread through breath, most notably in exercise classes.

And the very quote you just gave does not say that it requires 15 minutes. It says that shorter exposures are less likely than long ones to result in transmission. It doesn’t say that it doesn’t happen, that it happens rarely, or anything else, just that it’s less likely to get an infectious dose with a short exposure than a long one.

How did this happen? Are you not reading your own sources?

ExistingFish · July 2020

rheddmobile wrote: »

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.

Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The Time article linked does not support the position you are trying to claim it does; in fact, the point of the article is the opposite, while explaining how the misconception that asymptomatic spread is rare got started. In fact multiple studies have suggested that people are most infectious a day or two before they develop symptoms.

It is also untrue that breathing does not spread the virus. There are multiple documented super-spreader cases of spread through breath, most notably in exercise classes.

And the very quote you just gave does not say that it requires 15 minutes. It says that shorter exposures are less likely than long ones to result in transmission. It doesn’t say that it doesn’t happen, that it happens rarely, or anything else, just that it’s less likely to get an infectious dose with a short exposure than a long one.

How did this happen? Are you not reading your own sources?

Okay, first - breathing during exercise classes is not the same as breathing while standing or walking. Fight me on that.

So "less likely" that the CDC doesn't think it's worth testing if you've been exposed less than 15 minutes.

From the first linked study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235208172030057X?via=ihub

sneezing, loud conversation and heavy breathing

This study says POSSIBLY, and WE DON'T know - this just shows breathing spreads droplets, not whether or not it spreads covid. We don't know if covid spreads in those microdroplets or not. So it just shows that breathing (while talking or HEAVY breathing, not regular, standing there breathing) releases microdroplets - not COVID.

I still say this doesn't support me simply existing and breathing puts people at risk.

The TIMES article said the WHO took one position and Scripps Research published a completely different estimate. I don't think the article proved either one was correct.

This just shows that different researchers can come to completely opposite conclusions, not that one is right and the other isn't.

T1DCarnivoreRunner · July 2020

ExistingFish wrote: »

rheddmobile wrote: »

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.

Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The Time article linked does not support the position you are trying to claim it does; in fact, the point of the article is the opposite, while explaining how the misconception that asymptomatic spread is rare got started. In fact multiple studies have suggested that people are most infectious a day or two before they develop symptoms.

It is also untrue that breathing does not spread the virus. There are multiple documented super-spreader cases of spread through breath, most notably in exercise classes.

And the very quote you just gave does not say that it requires 15 minutes. It says that shorter exposures are less likely than long ones to result in transmission. It doesn’t say that it doesn’t happen, that it happens rarely, or anything else, just that it’s less likely to get an infectious dose with a short exposure than a long one.

How did this happen? Are you not reading your own sources?

Okay, first - breathing during exercise classes is not the same as breathing while standing or walking. Fight me on that.

So "less likely" that the CDC doesn't think it's worth testing if you've been exposed less than 15 minutes.

From the first linked study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235208172030057X?via=ihub

sneezing, loud conversation and heavy breathing

This study says POSSIBLY, and WE DON'T know - this just shows breathing spreads droplets, not whether or not it spreads covid. We don't know if covid spreads in those microdroplets or not. So it just shows that breathing (while talking or HEAVY breathing, not regular, standing there breathing) releases microdroplets - not COVID.

I still say this doesn't support me simply existing and breathing puts people at risk.

The TIMES article said the WHO took one position and Scripps Research published a completely different estimate. I don't think the article proved either one was correct.

This just shows that different researchers can come to completely opposite conclusions, not that one is right and the other isn't.

And the other study that shows breathing (not just HEAVY breathing) spreads it? How are you are measuring your breathing to determine whether it is heavy enough to spread or not?

At the very minimum, it is possible that breathing (all breathing) spreads Coronavirus. But because you don't see that as a 100% certainty, you are willing to risk killing people?

AnnPT77 · July 2020

Working from memory here, so maybe wrong, but IIRC part of the confusion around the WHO rep, who said asymptomatic spread was rare, had to do with a distinction between asymptomatic (never shows symptoms) and presymptomatic (doesn't show symptoms yet, but will relatively soon), and that the context of the statement was important. At best, misleading (out of context), at worst wrong (and quickly corrected, again IIRC).

AnnPT77 · July 2020

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.

Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The inference (correct or not) from the overheard phone call seems to be that the staff member had been in recent contact with someone who had Covid or symptoms of it, had come to work anyway, and was not wearing a mask at work. I can't speak for the location where this occurred, but hereabouts, store staffers are expected to be masked in meet-the-public areas.

Assuming I accept the PP's implied interpretation of the phone conversation and overall story, this is a location where expected precautions are being flouted. If flouted in those ways, who knows in what others? I'd leave, too, for much the same reason I might do likewise if I saw an employee use the restroom, not wash hands, and start working in a food-related area.

And not necessarily because of rank terror about immediate risk.

I'm sure any/all stores could (do) have breaches in best practice. Avoiding those where obvious ones occur doesn't seem wildly crazy to me, especially if all that's at stake is having tea or not having tea. To mix a metaphor on purpose, voting with our feet is part of how we turn the battleship.

T1DCarnivoreRunner · July 2020

Coronavirus Is Airborne, Say Scientists, Ask WHO To Revise Rules: Report
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/coronavirus-is-airborne-say-scientists-ask-world-health-organisation-to-revise-rules-report-2257626

In an open letter to the agency, which the researchers plan to publish in a scientific journal next week, 239 scientists in 32 countries are outlined the evidence showing smaller particles can infect people, the NYT said.

Theoldguy1 · July 2020

Saw a fisrt today. Woman gets out of her car at Walmart opens the trunk gets a full coverage motorcycle helmet complete with full face shield out puts it on her head and walks in.

JustSomeEm · July 2020

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

Saw a fisrt today. Woman gets out of her car at Walmart opens the trunk gets a full coverage motorcycle helmet complete with full face shield out puts it on her head and walks in.

I've seen folks wearing full plastic face-masks to shop... and my husband has threatened to wear his welding mask... But I hadn't yet seen someone shopping in a motorcycle helmet.

T1DCarnivoreRunner · July 2020

JustSomeEm wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

Saw a fisrt today. Woman gets out of her car at Walmart opens the trunk gets a full coverage motorcycle helmet complete with full face shield out puts it on her head and walks in.

I've seen folks wearing full plastic face-masks to shop... and my husband has threatened to wear his welding mask... But I hadn't yet seen someone shopping in a motorcycle helmet.

Masks are required at my work, but we know they protect everyone else much more than they protect us. The people screening employees as they arrive get face shields - this is in addition to masks. When wearing these face shields, though, we are coming into contact with people who have just arrived and have not yet been given a mask to wear. I was given some training on how we screen employees and was issued a face shield. All of us in the office have to take shifts. It isn't so bad, just 1 hr. per week at this point. Mine starts tomorrow.

lynn_glenmont · July 2020

ExistingFish wrote: »

rheddmobile wrote: »

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.

Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The Time article linked does not support the position you are trying to claim it does; in fact, the point of the article is the opposite, while explaining how the misconception that asymptomatic spread is rare got started. In fact multiple studies have suggested that people are most infectious a day or two before they develop symptoms.

It is also untrue that breathing does not spread the virus. There are multiple documented super-spreader cases of spread through breath, most notably in exercise classes.

And the very quote you just gave does not say that it requires 15 minutes. It says that shorter exposures are less likely than long ones to result in transmission. It doesn’t say that it doesn’t happen, that it happens rarely, or anything else, just that it’s less likely to get an infectious dose with a short exposure than a long one.

How did this happen? Are you not reading your own sources?

Okay, first - breathing during exercise classes is not the same as breathing while standing or walking. Fight me on that.

So "less likely" that the CDC doesn't think it's worth testing if you've been exposed less than 15 minutes.

From the first linked study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235208172030057X?via=ihub

sneezing, loud conversation and heavy breathing

This study says POSSIBLY, and WE DON'T know - this just shows breathing spreads droplets, not whether or not it spreads covid. We don't know if covid spreads in those microdroplets or not. So it just shows that breathing (while talking or HEAVY breathing, not regular, standing there breathing) releases microdroplets - not COVID.

I still say this doesn't support me simply existing and breathing puts people at risk.

The TIMES article said the WHO took one position and Scripps Research published a completely different estimate. I don't think the article proved either one was correct.

This just shows that different researchers can come to completely opposite conclusions, not that one is right and the other isn't.

If research isn't conclusive on something, and following the more "optimistic" study could lead to the spread of a potentially fatal disease if the more "pessimistic" study is right, but following the more "pessimistic" study is not going to have a public health downside, I know which one I'm going to follow.

GaleHawkins · July 2020

rheddmobile wrote: »

GaleHawkins wrote: »

I had a 20 year old educate me on the COVID-19 parties last week. It seems they put money in a pool and the first one that tests positive wins the money in the pool. Ethically a researcher could not do that so this group is giving some feed back to COVID-19 ad hoc research. Yesterday we had to drive 50 miles to the Lowe's in Paducah KY to get two identical full height pantry kitchen cabinets and face mask usage was very high especially in the 60+ age group. Yesterday I read based on known testing results it is estimated there are 100,000 new cases daily currently in the USA so that is a million more new cases every 10 days.

The mental health side of COVID-19 may long term be worse the actually getting the disease. I see Columbus had his head removed and tossed into the harbor in Boston.

https://msn.com/en-us/news/us/masks-are-putting-people-at-each-others-throats-especially-in-palm-beach-county/ar-BB16jsXh

Some this mask no mask logic is over the top in my view. I made sure I had a mask to go out of town yesterday but when I put it own I found make-up inside of it but others could not see the make-up.

I’m confused - were you wearing someone else’s used mask? Or do you wear makeup?

I can understand you being confused since I felt the same way.

Hanibanani2020 · July 2020

Borders close again tomorrow. Thankfully but hopefully not too late.

mockchoc · July 2020

Hanibanani2020 wrote: »

Borders close again tomorrow. Thankfully but hopefully not too late.

You probably should mention which boarders since people from all over the world are on here and won't know or remember perhaps where you are. New South Wales are closing boarders to Victoria in Australia

Good it is for sure for the rest of the country. Not sure how safe it is to open up all other than Vic. to each other yet like NSW premier mentioned. Hope they take it slow and see what is the best way forward, too soon right now but maybe a few weeks we'll know better.

slimgirljo15 · July 2020

kimny72 wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

I don't blame you for being uncomfortable in there! I suspect as long as you weren't in there long, your risk would probably be minimal but why risk it when there are places doing a better job? That clerk though is at great risk working all day in there and also risking whoever she was talking about visiting!

My parents are having my brother, SIL, and their two little boys over for a belated holiday dinner. It is crazy hot/humid out, so they will be inside. They invited me over, but I'll only go to either of their houses if we will be outside, so I had to decline. I'm so scared for my parents. I'm sure my nephews are playing with other kids at this point, and my parents have lost patience with distancing from them. Luckily the virus is rather scarce in our rural community right now but all it will take is one family vacationing somewhere more crowded and bringing it back here and as lax as everyone is being it will spread.

It wasn't an official WHO position that asymptomatic spread is rare. One WHO official said that in an interview, and the WHO along with many other publications disagreed right away. There are countless hotspot outbreaks that cannot be explained without clear asymptomatic spread.

I'm scared for my dad too.. and no matter the risk be it .0000001% from whatever I will be doing all I can to keep him safe.

mockchoc · July 2020

"I'm scared for my dad too.. and no matter the risk be it .0000001% from whatever I will be doing all I can to keep him safe."

You're dad is lucky you have him around Jo. I'm so far away from mine and I'm really not sure how careful they are being. I try to inform them how to be careful but they are not too worried and are going to go do their thing whatever I say on the phone. Pretty sure they are fairly careful just hard to know for sure if they listen

slimgirljo15 · July 2020

mockchoc wrote: »

"I'm scared for my dad too.. and no matter the risk be it .0000001% from whatever I will be doing all I can to keep him safe."

You're dad is lucky you have him around Jo. I'm so far away from mine and I'm really not sure how careful they are being. I try to inform them how to be careful but they are not too worried and are going to go do their thing whatever I say on the phone. Pretty sure they are fairly careful just hard to know for sure if they listen

I hope they stay safe Sue. My dad was pretty blasè at first but takes it far more seriously now. He has a number of health problems that makes him higher risk.

This Victorian explosion of cases is such a worry, I'm wondering how many will flock into NSW before the border shuts between NSW and Victoria. Im so glad at least something is being done and borders shut. I do feel sorry for the Victorians though... poor buggers I hope they succeed in getting on top of this.

mockchoc · July 2020

slimgirljo15 wrote: »

mockchoc wrote: »

"I'm scared for my dad too.. and no matter the risk be it .0000001% from whatever I will be doing all I can to keep him safe."

You're dad is lucky you have him around Jo. I'm so far away from mine and I'm really not sure how careful they are being. I try to inform them how to be careful but they are not too worried and are going to go do their thing whatever I say on the phone. Pretty sure they are fairly careful just hard to know for sure if they listen

I hope they stay safe Sue. My dad was pretty blasè at first but takes it far more seriously now. He has a number of health problems that makes him higher risk.

This Victorian explosion of cases is such a worry, I'm wondering how many will flock into NSW before the border shuts between NSW and Victoria. Im so glad at least something is being done and borders shut. I do feel sorry for the Victorians though... poor buggers I hope they succeed in getting on top of this.

This is all too hard really eh? Bunker down. Husband keeps saying we should trip on down to NSW to see the parents in our spring but I guess it's better to not think too far ahead for now. Gahhhh!

Hanibanani2020 · July 2020

mockchoc wrote: »

Hanibanani2020 wrote: »

Borders close again tomorrow. Thankfully but hopefully not too late.

You probably should mention which boarders since people from all over the world are on here and won't know or remember perhaps where you are. New South Wales are closing boarders to Victoria in Australia Good it is for sure for the rest of the country. Not sure how safe it is to open up all other than Vic. to each other yet like NSW premier mentioned. Hope they take it slow and see what is the best way forward, too soon right now but maybe a few weeks we'll know better.

I’ve mentioned a few times in this thread where I’m from already 😊. Horse-gate-bolted imho for borders closing.

Theoldguy1 · July 2020

Hanibanani2020 wrote: »

mockchoc wrote: »

Hanibanani2020 wrote: »

Borders close again tomorrow. Thankfully but hopefully not too late.

You probably should mention which boarders since people from all over the world are on here and won't know or remember perhaps where you are. New South Wales are closing boarders to Victoria in Australia Good it is for sure for the rest of the country. Not sure how safe it is to open up all other than Vic. to each other yet like NSW premier mentioned. Hope they take it slow and see what is the best way forward, too soon right now but maybe a few weeks we'll know better.

I’ve mentioned a few times in this thread where I’m from already 😊. Horse-gate-bolted imho for borders closing.

So a few times in 300+ pages, not real helpful IMO.

Theoldguy1 · July 2020

Ran into a friend I hadn't seen for a couple months at the store. He said he was one month out from a heart attack and a stent put in. He said he was going to cardiac rehab. Asked me if I had been in out gym yet, he was planning on going back (I assume with his doctor's okay) and doing some spin classes.

It's tough to decided what is okay/an acceptable risk in this environment.

ReenieHJ · July 2020

Nick Cordero lost his battle yesterday.

Before Covid I'd never heard his name. I've been following his struggles for the past couple months. His wife has been keeping the public updated through IG. Her support and love knew no bounds. This makes me sad.

Coronavirus prep

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