Coronavirus prep
Replies
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »JRsLateInLifeMom wrote: »No mandatory masks here in Texas. Heard USA president talking about opening the country back up soon.Will see who he opens up or not - plus how it goes. I’m still waiting to see our jump in cases from Easter parties. Good news is after that cops are getting like only 40calls a day now so way less work for them so they can concentrate on more important stuff like assisting Medical facilities to food drives ect
Still not sure how he can open a state up if the gov or mayor says no. Federalism, it's real.
Exactly. It has been governors and mayors and county executives who have closed schools and businesses and issued limits on how many people can congregate together. I don't understand why anyone would think that decisions on when to rescind all those order won't be made by the same governors and mayors and county executives.
However, I'd expect that if there's a national "open it up" order or recommendation, even purely symbolic, it will significantly fuel the inclination for more localized protests like the one in Michigan yesterday . . . and perhaps even open rebellion against the state/local orders, as a matter of civil disobedience.
Based on what I've seen so far about yesterday's Michigan protest (still incomplete info/analysis, so I'm still monitoring), the alignment of the protestors in an overall political sense seems to be toward the national government, against the state government, which seems to me to increase likelihood of defiance of state orders if they conflict with even symbolic national recommendations. (There appears to have been a good bit of MAGA or "Impeach Whitmer" verbiage in protest signs, and sentiment among protest supporters interviewed by radio/TV, or whom I've seen Facebook and the like.)
Once again, I'm trying very hard not to express a political opinion about which side of this is more justified or correct. I definitely have such an opinion, even though I'm trying my best to evaluate new information even-handedly as it comes out. But I'm trying to keep my posts focused on facts, as best I can with my limited understanding and information sources.
It's fascinating really, and as you say not making a political judgement one way or the other, typically conservatives in the US align with small federal govt and states rights, while liberals are more seen as supporting a strong fully developed federal govt. But the desire to support the economy despite possible health risks has groups who would normally be considered to be on the conservative side supporting allowing the fed govt to overrule state directives.
As to your previous post, I had heard a lot about all these items the Michigan guidelines said you couldn't buy, and how ridiculous it was. But when I went looking for the actual guidelines, as you said the directive seemed to be merely that you couldn't shop for those items in big chain stores. Specifically, I saw a well known person express outrage that the aisle with child car seats was roped off at a Michigan Walmart, and what were parents supposed to do? And all the replies said "Order it online for pickup or delivery." That basically the aim is to keep people from casually comparison shopping as many items as possible.
Misinformation on top of the legit confusion as we wade through this situation is certainly making it more challenging!10 -
To help with the financial situation here, all ministers and all higher bracket pay government employees will be giving up a certain percentage of their salary (the prime minister will be giving up 40%, for example) to help organize financial aid for those who are currently unable to meet their basic needs because of the recent regulations and to help companies who are unable to pay their employees. All bonuses such as transportation allowances and overtime bonuses will be halted temporarily as well for all employees.
Starting Sunday, a remote provenance with no cases will be closed off completely and life will return to semi normal there, which will ease the burden somewhat. The plan is to gradually lift lockdown in more zero case provenance gradually.
I was wondering how it was going to be handled because the country is running on empty with few sources of revenue available (tourism, a main source, is shut down completely) and more expenses (all tests, medical care, and mandatory quarantine are 100% covered by the government)5 -
So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.8
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KrissCanDoThis wrote: »So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.
They will be closed off. No one is allowed in or out.7 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.
They will be closed off. No one is allowed in or out.
How does that work? Do you have that many government officials that they can stop people at every road? In the U.S. people would just go anyway. But then the amount of tom-foolery-you're-not-the-boss-of-me going on here cannot be over-stated.11 -
cmriverside wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.
They will be closed off. No one is allowed in or out.
How does that work? Do you have that many government officials that they can stop people at every road? In the U.S. people would just go anyway. But then the amount of tom-foolery-you're-not-the-boss-of-me going on here cannot be over-stated.
The army forces are involved. It's a small country so the number of provinces is small (12), and each province has limited points of entry by car. Currently, only people with permits are allowed to drive, and even fewer have permits to drive between provinces. A close off means even stricter rules for entry.
With all known cases currently quarantined in hospitals, and all buildings/streets that had several cases quarantined off by the army to anticipate any potential silent cases, the risk is there, but smaller. Things are under control, for now, but if some undiscovered pockets emerge, they'll hopefully be localized to an area because of driving restrictions. Some people do break the rules, but the fear of temporarily losing their car keeps many people within a few kilometers of their house.
ETA:
We've had a scary case of someone whose brother father has the virus and was ordered to home quarantine, but it wasn't a hot spot, so his area wasn't under mandatory quarantine. He worked at a pharmacy, so he also has a permit to use his car. He broke quarantine and kept going to work, so yeah, mistakes do happen. We may see an uptick in a week or two because of it, but I hope it won't cause things to spiral out of control.
Another was a case whose brother was sick and order to home quarantine, but he kept going to work (selling vegetables).
The next 2 weeks will reveal if we lose control or not.9 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.
They will be closed off. No one is allowed in or out.
How does that work? Do you have that many government officials that they can stop people at every road? In the U.S. people would just go anyway. But then the amount of tom-foolery-you're-not-the-boss-of-me going on here cannot be over-stated.
The army forces are involved. It's a small country so the number of provinces is small (12), and each province has limited points of entry by car. Currently, only people with permits are allowed to drive, and even fewer have permits to drive between provinces. A close off means even stricter rules for entry.
With all known cases currently quarantined in hospitals, and all buildings/streets that had several cases quarantined off by the army to anticipate any potential silent cases, the risk is there, but smaller. Things are under control, for now, but if some undiscovered pockets emerge, they'll hopefully be localized to an area because of driving restrictions. Some people do break the rules, but the fear of temporarily losing their car keeps many people within a few kilometers of their house.
Interesting. That so wouldn't work here.
For about a thousand different reasons, of course. 2 -
cmriverside wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »KrissCanDoThis wrote: »So when they open these areas up in the places with no cases, would they stop people from traveling to them to shop? I would be worried that an asymptomatic person would go shopping and accidentally create cases in a city trying to open.
They will be closed off. No one is allowed in or out.
How does that work? Do you have that many government officials that they can stop people at every road? In the U.S. people would just go anyway. But then the amount of tom-foolery-you're-not-the-boss-of-me going on here cannot be over-stated.
The army forces are involved. It's a small country so the number of provinces is small (12), and each province has limited points of entry by car. Currently, only people with permits are allowed to drive, and even fewer have permits to drive between provinces. A close off means even stricter rules for entry.
With all known cases currently quarantined in hospitals, and all buildings/streets that had several cases quarantined off by the army to anticipate any potential silent cases, the risk is there, but smaller. Things are under control, for now, but if some undiscovered pockets emerge, they'll hopefully be localized to an area because of driving restrictions. Some people do break the rules, but the fear of temporarily losing their car keeps many people within a few kilometers of their house.
Interesting. That so wouldn't work here. For about a thousand different reasons, of course.
Wouldnt work here either... likely for the same reasons. Lol3 -
It's much better than it sounds lol. People hear army and think scary. They're being utilized as personnel, nothing more. The worst that can happen is getting your car taken away for a month and be driven home in a police car. The current measures are extreme because the situation is extreme. According to the latest independent polls, a little over 70% of the people are happy with the way this is being handled, financial complaints aside.8
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amusedmonkey wrote: »It's much better than it sounds lol. People hear army and think scary. They're being utilized as personnel, nothing more. The worst that can happen is getting your car taken away for a month and be driven home in a police car. The current measures are extreme because the situation is extreme. According to the latest independent polls, a little over 70% of the people are happy with the way this is being handled, financial complaints aside.
FWIW, I think a number of the reasons this wouldn't work here have nothing to do with anti-authoritarianism. Just one example: In lots of parts of the US and Canada, we have way, way too many roads, for me to even imagine how this could work, not to mention lakes and rivers that connect things. People can be quite creative in using these. Technology is better now, but there were many reasons why bootlegging during prohibition was impossible to shut down. This is one of them.7 -
THIS is why our Governor just issued an order extending the Safer At Home order until May 26.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »It's much better than it sounds lol. People hear army and think scary. They're being utilized as personnel, nothing more. The worst that can happen is getting your car taken away for a month and be driven home in a police car. The current measures are extreme because the situation is extreme. According to the latest independent polls, a little over 70% of the people are happy with the way this is being handled, financial complaints aside.
FWIW, I think a number of the reasons this wouldn't work here have nothing to do with anti-authoritarianism. Just one example: In lots of parts of the US and Canada, we have way, way too many roads, for me to even imagine how this could work, not to mention lakes and rivers that connect things. People can be quite creative in using these. Technology is better now, but there were many reasons why bootlegging during prohibition was impossible to shut down. This is one of them.
Especially in the part of the US where you and I live. The Great Lakes were the perfect conduit for liquor to come into the US from Canada. Huge lakes and a lot of inlets and river mouths made it easy for the boats to stay hidden.5 -
Well yeah, and JOrdan is a monarchy and there are 9.5 million people total and they caught it early.
Far different from the U.S. with 362 million people, 50 different governments but one government, two large countries with which we share a mostly un-protectable border, (not to mention the proximity to Russia across the straight and Cuba across a few miles of ocean.) and we have a million or so infected with no way to contain it other than social distancing that isn't enforceable because reasons.10 -
KrissCanDoThis wrote: »I was just reading in the news that one of the facilities that is owned by the company I work for had to evacuate a second floor in order to quarantine residents who have tested positive, they weren't expecting it to spread the way it has with how strict everything is and only had 20 beds, now they need 38..
I really hope it doesnt make it to my building because the one that has it right now... it's basically a high rise style building with many many floors..
Ours is 2 floors =/
I read that the biggest nursing home in New Jersey, where it has spread quickly for residents and staff, had 17 bodies stacked in a morgue designed for only 4 bodies. They couldn't get body bags fast enough for everyone dying.3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »It's much better than it sounds lol. People hear army and think scary. They're being utilized as personnel, nothing more. The worst that can happen is getting your car taken away for a month and be driven home in a police car. The current measures are extreme because the situation is extreme. According to the latest independent polls, a little over 70% of the people are happy with the way this is being handled, financial complaints aside.
FWIW, I think a number of the reasons this wouldn't work here have nothing to do with anti-authoritarianism. Just one example: In lots of parts of the US and Canada, we have way, way too many roads, for me to even imagine how this could work, not to mention lakes and rivers that connect things. People can be quite creative in using these. Technology is better now, but there were many reasons why bootlegging during prohibition was impossible to shut down. This is one of them.
That makes sense. I'm sure there may be places where you could probably sneak in, but none that I know of. Most people wouldn't want to go through the trouble anyway because if you're not caught at guarded entry points you may get caught in the city you're trying to sneak into, although who knows.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »Well yeah, and JOrdan is a monarchy and there are 9.5 million people total and they caught it early.
Far different from the U.S. with 362 million people, 50 different governments but one government, two large countries with which we share a mostly un-protectable border, (not to mention the proximity to Russia across the straight and Cuba across a few miles of ocean.) and we have a million or so infected with no way to contain it other than social distancing that isn't enforceable because reasons.
This is very true. What's being done here wouldn't work in many countries. It wouldn't even work here if we hadn't caught it early. It may even stop working if things explode in two weeks and they may need to change their strategies.2 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »It's much better than it sounds lol. People hear army and think scary. They're being utilized as personnel, nothing more. The worst that can happen is getting your car taken away for a month and be driven home in a police car. The current measures are extreme because the situation is extreme. According to the latest independent polls, a little over 70% of the people are happy with the way this is being handled, financial complaints aside.
FWIW, I think a number of the reasons this wouldn't work here have nothing to do with anti-authoritarianism. Just one example: In lots of parts of the US and Canada, we have way, way too many roads, for me to even imagine how this could work, not to mention lakes and rivers that connect things. People can be quite creative in using these. Technology is better now, but there were many reasons why bootlegging during prohibition was impossible to shut down. This is one of them.
Especially in the part of the US where you and I live. The Great Lakes were the perfect conduit for liquor to come into the US from Canada. Huge lakes and a lot of inlets and river mouths made it easy for the boats to stay hidden.
One of the science buildings at my college was named Bronfman Hall (after Edgar Bronfman, son of Samuel who made a fortune selling alcohol to northern US cities from Canada during Prohibition, and then became the owner of Seagrams). ;-)6 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »
For lots of people, just getting through the day is an accomplishment in itself especially if depression and anxiety are factors. No one should be made to feel like they've 'wasted' their time or feel diminished or unaccomplished if they haven't freaking cured cancer during their downtime.
People have enough to worry about right now.
Most days, I am happy I get out of bed and "go" to work. I am happy that I take a shower and make myself food. I am happy if I write 50 words in my manuscript.
Then I have nights like I did a couple days ago where I can't stop crying and I wonder why I even try. Where I have to remind myself that there ARE people out there and the world still exists. Where I keep telling myself that my kitties need me so I have to keep going.
Before anyone asks, yes I am therapy and take medication. But this is a different time and situation. None of us is meant to go through this. This much change all at once is not good for anyone's mental health.26 -
I was able to find distilled water at the store today for the first time in more than a month! I use it in my CPAP and had just let it run dry. Sometimes when the air is too dry, I get nosebleeds. Fortunately I have not had this issue.
Still no toilet paper here. I keep seeing stores put it in their ads, but they never have any.8 -
Worst death day yet here (IL) with 125 additional deaths. Total new cases are down a bit with 1140.
That brings IL's total to 25,733 positive, and 1072 deaths. Chicago alone has 10,642 cases and 414 deaths. The rest of Cook County has 7445 cases and 308 deaths. My zip code alone has 253 cases (number of deaths not reported). To put that in perspective, my zip code is roughly 2.5 miles x 2.75 miles, so under 7 square miles. That works out to about 37 known cases per square mile. Right now, about 17% of statewide cases are being hospitalized, and about 5% of known cases are in the ICU. They are now saying they are finally able to test enough to test anyone who believes they have symptoms (even without a doctor's referral), so I expect the total number of cases to go up but the percentage of cases that end up in the hospital and ICU to go down.7
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