Coronavirus prep

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.


Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

This article cites 2 sources showing that breathing can spread the virus: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmrp.2020.05.003

The WHO quickly walked back the claim that asymptomatic spread was rare (literally the very next day, as the scientific community had found otherwise).
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who-comments-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19/
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/who-comments-breed-confusion-over-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19-67626
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-who-asymptomatic-cases-spread

Some studies specifically looking at the asymptomatic spread:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11427-020-1661-4
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0965-6

Increasing evidence has shown that asymptomatic individuals can spread the virus efficiently, and the emergence of these silent spreaders of SARS-CoV-2 has caused difficulties in the control of the epidemic.

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.


Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The Time article linked does not support the position you are trying to claim it does; in fact, the point of the article is the opposite, while explaining how the misconception that asymptomatic spread is rare got started. In fact multiple studies have suggested that people are most infectious a day or two before they develop symptoms.

It is also untrue that breathing does not spread the virus. There are multiple documented super-spreader cases of spread through breath, most notably in exercise classes.

And the very quote you just gave does not say that it requires 15 minutes. It says that shorter exposures are less likely than long ones to result in transmission. It doesn’t say that it doesn’t happen, that it happens rarely, or anything else, just that it’s less likely to get an infectious dose with a short exposure than a long one.

How did this happen? Are you not reading your own sources?

ExistingFish wrote: »

rheddmobile wrote: »

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.


Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The Time article linked does not support the position you are trying to claim it does; in fact, the point of the article is the opposite, while explaining how the misconception that asymptomatic spread is rare got started. In fact multiple studies have suggested that people are most infectious a day or two before they develop symptoms.

It is also untrue that breathing does not spread the virus. There are multiple documented super-spreader cases of spread through breath, most notably in exercise classes.

And the very quote you just gave does not say that it requires 15 minutes. It says that shorter exposures are less likely than long ones to result in transmission. It doesn’t say that it doesn’t happen, that it happens rarely, or anything else, just that it’s less likely to get an infectious dose with a short exposure than a long one.

How did this happen? Are you not reading your own sources?

Okay, first - breathing during exercise classes is not the same as breathing while standing or walking. Fight me on that.

So "less likely" that the CDC doesn't think it's worth testing if you've been exposed less than 15 minutes.

From the first linked study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235208172030057X?via=ihub

sneezing, loud conversation and heavy breathing

This study says POSSIBLY, and WE DON'T know - this just shows breathing spreads droplets, not whether or not it spreads covid. We don't know if covid spreads in those microdroplets or not. So it just shows that breathing (while talking or HEAVY breathing, not regular, standing there breathing) releases microdroplets - not COVID.

I still say this doesn't support me simply existing and breathing puts people at risk.

The TIMES article said the WHO took one position and Scripps Research published a completely different estimate. I don't think the article proved either one was correct.

This just shows that different researchers can come to completely opposite conclusions, not that one is right and the other isn't.

And the other study that shows breathing (not just HEAVY breathing) spreads it? How are you are measuring your breathing to determine whether it is heavy enough to spread or not?

At the very minimum, it is possible that breathing (all breathing) spreads Coronavirus. But because you don't see that as a 100% certainty, you are willing to risk killing people?

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.


Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The inference (correct or not) from the overheard phone call seems to be that the staff member had been in recent contact with someone who had Covid or symptoms of it, had come to work anyway, and was not wearing a mask at work. I can't speak for the location where this occurred, but hereabouts, store staffers are expected to be masked in meet-the-public areas.

Assuming I accept the PP's implied interpretation of the phone conversation and overall story, this is a location where expected precautions are being flouted. If flouted in those ways, who knows in what others? I'd leave, too, for much the same reason I might do likewise if I saw an employee use the restroom, not wash hands, and start working in a food-related area.

And not necessarily because of rank terror about immediate risk.

I'm sure any/all stores could (do) have breaches in best practice. Avoiding those where obvious ones occur doesn't seem wildly crazy to me, especially if all that's at stake is having tea or not having tea. To mix a metaphor on purpose, voting with our feet is part of how we turn the battleship.

ExistingFish wrote: »

rheddmobile wrote: »

ExistingFish wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

How many were more than 15 minutes of exposure? The CDC says brief exposure is unlikely to cause transmission. Their criteria for risk/testing is 15 minutes.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/public-health-recommendations.html

Data are insufficient to precisely define the duration of time that constitutes a prolonged exposure. Recommendations vary on the length of time of exposure, but 15 minutes of close exposure can be used as an operational definition. Brief interactions are less likely to result in transmission; however, symptoms and the type of interaction (e.g., did the infected person cough directly into the face of the exposed individual) remain important.

So an asymptomatic person with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of contact 4+ feet away (across the counter) is not putting anyone at extreme risk. If she didn't cough, sneeze, or talk to them (just wiped down the counter breathing) I wouldn't worry at all.


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html

Just want to remind you, this says "Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks." - Not breathes. To follow up on my posts from before.


Asymptomatic spread is RARE. From the WHO (not an official position, but a quote that was followed up on with support)

https://time.com/5850256/who-asymptomatic-spread/

There is a lot of fear about this virus. There is a lot of overreaction. I'm getting my links from the CDC and the WHO, who in my opinion are being abundantly cautious.

The Time article linked does not support the position you are trying to claim it does; in fact, the point of the article is the opposite, while explaining how the misconception that asymptomatic spread is rare got started. In fact multiple studies have suggested that people are most infectious a day or two before they develop symptoms.

It is also untrue that breathing does not spread the virus. There are multiple documented super-spreader cases of spread through breath, most notably in exercise classes.

And the very quote you just gave does not say that it requires 15 minutes. It says that shorter exposures are less likely than long ones to result in transmission. It doesn’t say that it doesn’t happen, that it happens rarely, or anything else, just that it’s less likely to get an infectious dose with a short exposure than a long one.

How did this happen? Are you not reading your own sources?

Okay, first - breathing during exercise classes is not the same as breathing while standing or walking. Fight me on that.

So "less likely" that the CDC doesn't think it's worth testing if you've been exposed less than 15 minutes.

From the first linked study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235208172030057X?via=ihub

sneezing, loud conversation and heavy breathing

This study says POSSIBLY, and WE DON'T know - this just shows breathing spreads droplets, not whether or not it spreads covid. We don't know if covid spreads in those microdroplets or not. So it just shows that breathing (while talking or HEAVY breathing, not regular, standing there breathing) releases microdroplets - not COVID.

I still say this doesn't support me simply existing and breathing puts people at risk.

The TIMES article said the WHO took one position and Scripps Research published a completely different estimate. I don't think the article proved either one was correct.

This just shows that different researchers can come to completely opposite conclusions, not that one is right and the other isn't.

If research isn't conclusive on something, and following the more "optimistic" study could lead to the spread of a potentially fatal disease if the more "pessimistic" study is right, but following the more "pessimistic" study is not going to have a public health downside, I know which one I'm going to follow.

Borders close again tomorrow. Thankfully but hopefully not too late.

kimny72 wrote: »

corinasue1143 wrote: »

I just went to 7-11 to get tea. Only me, one clerk at the cash register with mask on, one clerk with no mask, no gloves, wiping counters beside the tea, in the store.
The clerk wiping counters was talking on her phone. She said something like, “I don’t have a temperature and I don’t feel sick at all. And I’m not around her much at all. I was over there for a while yesterday.”
That’s all I heard as I was backing away from her and getting the h—- out of there.
At 7-11.
How many customers during her shift?

I don't blame you for being uncomfortable in there! I suspect as long as you weren't in there long, your risk would probably be minimal but why risk it when there are places doing a better job? That clerk though is at great risk working all day in there and also risking whoever she was talking about visiting!

My parents are having my brother, SIL, and their two little boys over for a belated holiday dinner. It is crazy hot/humid out, so they will be inside. They invited me over, but I'll only go to either of their houses if we will be outside, so I had to decline. I'm so scared for my parents. I'm sure my nephews are playing with other kids at this point, and my parents have lost patience with distancing from them. Luckily the virus is rather scarce in our rural community right now but all it will take is one family vacationing somewhere more crowded and bringing it back here and as lax as everyone is being it will spread.

It wasn't an official WHO position that asymptomatic spread is rare. One WHO official said that in an interview, and the WHO along with many other publications disagreed right away. There are countless hotspot outbreaks that cannot be explained without clear asymptomatic spread.

I'm scared for my dad too.. and no matter the risk be it .0000001% from whatever I will be doing all I can to keep him safe.

My mom (64 with diabetes) and my dad (65 with COPD) contracted covid. My dad was able to recover on his own. My mom was sick for about a week and then got very bad. She went to the hospital and was immediately transfered to a large hospital by ambulance. At first she was on a high flow of oxygen, but eventually she was put on a ventilator. After about 6 days she was able to come off the ventilator and go back to oxygen support. She is still in the hospital after 2 weeks and will likely be in another week. She recieved all of the experimental treatments available and nearly lost her life. It has been incredibly hard to have her so sick and not be there. This is a horrible virus and I pray that more effective treatments or a vaccine is developed. The cost to the US in hospital bills will be enormous. My parents have insurance and will be ok.

For anyone interested, my dad went to a small bar/grill in a town of about 200. It is a farming area and I think that they thought they would be safer because it was so rural. One of the staff tested positive shortly after he and a friend had lunch. The staff did not wear masks. Both he and his friend came down with it and my mom got sick a few days later.

kshama2001 wrote: »

Hanibanani2020 wrote: »

mockchoc wrote: »

Hanibanani2020 wrote: »

Borders close again tomorrow. Thankfully but hopefully not too late.

You probably should mention which boarders since people from all over the world are on here and won't know or remember perhaps where you are. New South Wales are closing boarders to Victoria in Australia Good it is for sure for the rest of the country. Not sure how safe it is to open up all other than Vic. to each other yet like NSW premier mentioned. Hope they take it slow and see what is the best way forward, too soon right now but maybe a few weeks we'll know better.

I’ve mentioned a few times in this thread where I’m from already 😊. Horse-gate-bolted imho for borders closing.

I have a few people memorized, but far from all, so I mention my state (Massachusetts) every post.

I do too, although I imagine everyone going "yeah, we know." But in reality I know people often don't remember that kind of stuff at all. I have a pretty good memory for where a number of people are, but mostly the ones who have been posting the most.