Coronavirus prep
Replies
-
cmriverside wrote: »
So let's look at the UK. They have socialized medicine. They decided to do the herd immunity thing. It was ugly. But they can't afford to shut down the economy and still care for the people. Same with Sweden. Socialization is not the answer. Self-determination and self-accountability can be the answer - but not if people are locked out of working.
Canada has universal health care and did NOT decide to go the herd immunity route. I think we've done fairly well in terms of mortality rate. The economy did not completely shut down. Yes, lots of people were temporarily out of work but there was a government income benefit to offset that somewhat. After a lengthy period of decreased cases, provinces have done phased reopening. My region of the province entered Stage 3 today, which means this is the first time since mid-March that we have been permitted to dine inside a restaurant. My city will see mandatory masks in enclosed public spaces plus buses and taxis next week... we have had no positive cases in two weeks and at the moment there is only one identified active case, yet we will be wearing masks. About 40% of us already do, whether voluntarily or by necessity, so I don't think this will create too much angst.
Sometimes an abundance of caution is the answer.
You in Canada did a much better job than we in the US did.
I've seen charts on the news comparing the two countries but am having trouble finding them online.5 -
Oklahoma City just passed a mask mandate with many exceptions. Penalty for non-compliance = $9 fine.2
-
cmriverside wrote: »The harsh reality is that those with the fewest resources to keep safe have the most pressure to get back to pre-covid practices.
Honestly this restriction has gone on long enough that this group is probably approaching critical mass right now.
Those of you in this thread who are the loudest proponents of social distancing and masks and quarantines...how would you feel about all this were you not privileged? It's easy for those with stay-home capability to pontificate from their keyboards but the reality is that tens of millions of people are living basically hand-to-mouth even in the best of economic times.
Unless you know a way to fabricate money out of thin air, I think allowing everyone to make their own choice is going to be the only way forward. Yes, people are going to die. More people won't. The choice should not be up to rich people living in comfortable isolation with plenty of money.
The "choice" to go out and work because your job can't be done at home shouldn't carry with it unnecessary risk because society views you as expendable and public policy reflects that view, or because your employer isn't willing to take any measures to protect you, or because customers/clients/patients or other members of the public you have to deal with in your job think their freedom not to wear a mask is more important your life and your family's lives.
15 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »One of the the larger school districts in our area announced their plan. Parents will make a binding choice for the fall semester
- Child will go to school in person with distancing measures, masks required, etc. Classes will be taught by the district's teachers. If there is an outbreak these kids will be taught remotely by their regular teachers
- Child will remote school. Instruction will be through a 3rd party provider.
This is interesting because I was just asking elsewhere about the plan. If a teacher or student is infected, then everyone who rode the bus or had a class with that person quarantines for 2 weeks? And if one of them ends up sick, does everyone who rode the bus or had a class with that teacher or student quarantine for 2 weeks?
Not to mention that multiple families have more than one child in school. Compound this by what the plan is if someone in class A gets sick and someone in that classroom has a sibling in Class B. Is all of Class B now expected to quarantine? The logistics of this seem almost overwhelming.
Exactly! Just have everyone do virtual. Students without a computer/internet can maybe be sent packets of materials to read and complete.
Or they could be given computers and Internet service. There are already Internet service providers offering deep discounts on both to low-income families with school-age kids. Making up the different probably wouldn't cost anymore than developing a whole secondary logistical framework involving human labor and human contact to create packets of material, deliver, retrieve, and review/grade/provide feedback by hand. Plus the added bonus of not treating kids as "less than" because their parents can't afford a computer and Internet access.7 -
cmriverside wrote: »@kshama2001 - I agree that legislating relief during this is a necessary thing, but it's not going to solve the longer term issue of a highly contagious respiratory virus that they're not even sure a vaccine will work against.
If a vaccine becomes viable like the Moderna one (or any of them, really) then all this relief and discussion goes away in less than a year. Until then, we're in trouble.
On the rest of the arguments which are all red herrings, no one is safe, correct. That's always been a given. The young who are not as seriously affected as a whole should be allowed to go back to work. The massive layoffs and furloughs mostly affect the young. I'm not talking about grocery store or essential workers, but everyone in every industry that has been basically shut down indefinitely. Restaurants, sports, hotels, lots of retailers, etc etc etc..
What good will it do to "let" people go back to work in industries that won't have sustainable demand because too many people aren't eager to expose themselves to the risk of covid, especially if there are no mask mandates and too many other people won't voluntarily mask up? No one has shut down the airline industry, but being "allowed" to work isn't going to do flight crews, ticket agents, ground service crews, etc. (not to mention upstream vendors) any good as airlines begin laying people when their PPP loans that required them to maintain employment levels run out in the early fall.
ETA the words in bold.6 -
cmriverside wrote: »If you look at that Johns Hopkins link I posted above, you'll see that our rate of death per case is 3.9% (edit - in the U.S.) and Germany's is 4.5%, so again - not sure what the point was there. Sweden is at 7.3%, UK at 15.4%.
Death per cases is not a reliable stat, because many or most with coronavirus aren't being tested. That's why the best comparison is death per millions.
In addition, deaths per cases is not a reliable stat because our incidence of new cases is rising so fast. The majority of our cases are not yet resolved. You cannot treat all those unresolved cases as cases that did not result in death. Many of them will still result in deaths (based on current figures on the Johns Hopkins site, as many as 11% of those unresolved cases in the U.S. will end in death -- and if you consider that rising cases means greater strain on the health care system and potentially poorer care and triaging, that rate could rise).
I agree that deaths per millions is probably the best comparison between countries, but if you want to get some sense of the percentage of covid cases in a particular country are ending in death, you would do better to look at [deaths] divided by [deaths + recoveries]. Admittedly, that may be a little high, as it appears on average, from the (largely anecdotal) information I've seen, that average time to recovery is probably somewhat longer than average time to death. But it's going to be far closer to the truth than using a denominator in which two-thirds* of the cases have not yet resolved in either death or recovery
*Two-thirds is the figure for unresolved cases to date for the U.S. YMMV in other countries.3 -
I don't know whether I'm a "loudest proponent" or not. I do think that everyone who can social distance should do that, everyone who can work from home should do that, everyone should minimize trips out into public places or into group gatherings as much as feasible (<= note "feasible"), everyone who can should wear their mask (correctly) while near others, and that those who are able should do what they feasibly can in their circumstances to support others who are economically affected, and keep economic activity happening as much as it can do safely.
Mask rebellion is not helping anyone. I don't see how it's "privileged" to ask people to wear masks when near others. At some stores, they're being handed out for free. People I know have been making cloth ones, and giving them away or donating them, for free. The essential workers, mostly (here), are correctly masked. I can be correctly masked (even as an elderly person with COPD) to protect them, and limit my trips (where I spend about the same amount of money into the economy in many categories, though not all).
^^This.
I agreed with pretty much every word you wrote in the longer post, but I think these two paragraphs are so fundamental and so right and get so to the core of the issues that I wanted to pull them out to in the hope that people who tend toward the TL;DR view might see them.8 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Sure, Ann, I agree. It's just that we've had 200+ pages saying basically the same thing. "Wear your mask. Social distance."
I guess my time in this thread is over. ::wavingslowly::
That will be a loss to dialog, I think, but of course you should do what's best for you.
I'd observe that some of the "Wear your mask. Social distance." here is people venting frustrations that are harder to vent safely in some daily lives. In that sense, it's a release valve.
Wishing you well, always.
Agree 100% with Ann. Enjoy reading your commentary. @ Ann - I hope I'm wrong about the A/C and indoor ventilation being so dangerous.
Was curious (as I do a lot of advising/consulting with startups as part of my business) if there were companies that were utilizing UV light to disinfect air via air handlers in the mechanical systems of buildings. Found a really interesting article that one Seattle restaurant did just that. Seems that it's an older technology that was brought back. I'm not seeing a whole lot being done on this front and, quite frankly, it's surprising.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/13/890387205/coronavirus-sparks-new-interest-in-using-ultraviolet-light-to-disinfect-indoor-a
The folks that installed my residential HVAC systems and do my seasonal inspections are always trying to convince me to add a UV light disinfecting unit. I have resisted as I have no allergies and live alone, but if I were in a multi-person household, I think I'd be tempted now in the covid end-times
4 -
So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.
For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?0 -
cmriverside wrote: »I could disagree point by point but not with an attorney because I don't have that kind of time.
Let's just say I disagree on most points you just made lemur, because all of them assume we are getting all the numbers - which we aren't - especially from countries that have socialist or communist governments.
What's the basis for thinking we aren't getting the numbers from Germany or most other EU countries or Australia? Because that's what I have been focusing on.There isn't one country (such as Germany) who miraculously just isn't seeing any deaths (or such low deaths like China and Germany) unless there is a lot of deception going on or there is some genetic trait only prevalent in that population - which could turn out to be true, but right now is a wild speculation. Or they have governmental control over their citizens, which I find hard to believe in any country short of communist or dictatorships.
On what basis do you think Germany is lying? Or Australia?
Australia and NZ have relatively low Covid numbers - yes I get that their populations are lower but I mean low proportionate numbers.
They are not communist countries.
One could argue they are more socialist countries than US since they have things like universal medical care - but are you really suggesting that means their Covid numbers are falsified???
4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.
For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?
There is a Trader Joe's close to my house. I used to go maybe once a month, but now on a more regular basis. If you are able, I'd suggest going in off-peak hours. Mine has over-60 hours from 8:00-9:00 and then opens for everyone at 9:00. I get there right at 9:00 and have not ever had to wait outside because of the capacity limit. Weekdays are much better than weekends if you can do it.
It is a small store with narrow aisles, so social distancing can be challenging sometimes, but my store is very strict on their mask policy. They have an employee at the door disinfecting carts and checking for masks.
For checkout, they have another employee directing traffic to the checkout lanes. They take your cart, and you have to stand 6 feet away from the cashier until everything is bagged and it's time to pay. They won't use reusable bags, you have to take the paper ones.
That's how it is at mine...I'm not sure if these policies are nationwide or just in my area (Chicago).6 -
paperpudding wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I could disagree point by point but not with an attorney because I don't have that kind of time.
Let's just say I disagree on most points you just made lemur, because all of them assume we are getting all the numbers - which we aren't - especially from countries that have socialist or communist governments.
What's the basis for thinking we aren't getting the numbers from Germany or most other EU countries or Australia? Because that's what I have been focusing on.There isn't one country (such as Germany) who miraculously just isn't seeing any deaths (or such low deaths like China and Germany) unless there is a lot of deception going on or there is some genetic trait only prevalent in that population - which could turn out to be true, but right now is a wild speculation. Or they have governmental control over their citizens, which I find hard to believe in any country short of communist or dictatorships.
On what basis do you think Germany is lying? Or Australia?
Australia and NZ have relatively low Covid numbers - yes I get that their populations are lower but I mean low proportionate numbers.
They are not communist countries.
One could argue they are more socialist countries than US since they have things like universal medical care - but are you really suggesting that means their Covid numbers are falsified???
Ironically enough, a couple of the excuses from some politicians for universal healthcare in the US, are defense spending for worldwide protection, and socialism (which they determined is a bad thing🤷🏻♀️)
I personally think that rather than Covid cases being falsified, they are underreported because of not enough testing from the very beginning. A lot of people think wearing face masks and social distancing, is infringing on personal rights, giving little credence to others rights not to be potentially exposed to people that don’t follow the simple guidelines. Little or no consequences to those who selfishly, continue to do as they wish. Hence, the surging in the US. Poor leadership from the beginning also has contributed.10 -
I’m speaking leadership on the National level, not necessarily local, but, also some state and local leaders are setting poor examples as well.9
-
Yes I agree with you about strong leadership or lack thereof being a factor, as well as population compliance.
However re under reporting - no I do not think Australia's numbers ( and very unlikely NZ's) are artificially low because of under testing.
On the contrary - anyone with slightest insiest symptom or contact history can and does get tested at no cost to themselves.
7 -
Australia, New Zealand and particularly, Germany have been ahead of this horrid thing. It was Germany sharing their medics who supported Italian medical professionals in the worst of times. Both New Zealand and Germany have female leaders. Scotland in the UK has a female First Minister she is achieving better results in Scotland than we are in England. Australia is unusual having a government lead by a man who has been to the forefront in taking action against the virus.
I'm sad for the Australians who now have outbreaks in I think three areas. I know some weeks back two visitors had "special dispensation", to travel to a terminally sick relative who was not covid related, to leave their quarantine soon after both exhibited symptoms which were confirmed, I think they again entered quarantine. The "special dispensation" had happened for other though after the people I'm thinking of, quarantine again meant quarantine. I hope the strong actions they have been taking will turn this dreadful tide for them.7 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.
For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?
There is a Trader Joe's close to my house. I used to go maybe once a month, but now on a more regular basis. If you are able, I'd suggest going in off-peak hours. Mine has over-60 hours from 8:00-9:00 and then opens for everyone at 9:00. I get there right at 9:00 and have not ever had to wait outside because of the capacity limit. Weekdays are much better than weekends if you can do it.
It is a small store with narrow aisles, so social distancing can be challenging sometimes, but my store is very strict on their mask policy. They have an employee at the door disinfecting carts and checking for masks.
For checkout, they have another employee directing traffic to the checkout lanes. They take your cart, and you have to stand 6 feet away from the cashier until everything is bagged and it's time to pay. They won't use reusable bags, you have to take the paper ones.
That's how it is at mine...I'm not sure if these policies are nationwide or just in my area (Chicago).
Same in Dallas.3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.
For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?
I haven’t been to our TJs since Covid—whenever I drive by there is a long line outside. In the “feels like 108” temps and sun, it’s not worth the wait for me. I drive across the street to Whole Foods if I need a specialty item—it’s usually near empty and everyone is masked and trying to follow one way aisle signs.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »One of the the larger school districts in our area announced their plan. Parents will make a binding choice for the fall semester
- Child will go to school in person with distancing measures, masks required, etc. Classes will be taught by the district's teachers. If there is an outbreak these kids will be taught remotely by their regular teachers
- Child will remote school. Instruction will be through a 3rd party provider.
This is interesting because I was just asking elsewhere about the plan. If a teacher or student is infected, then everyone who rode the bus or had a class with that person quarantines for 2 weeks? And if one of them ends up sick, does everyone who rode the bus or had a class with that teacher or student quarantine for 2 weeks?
Not to mention that multiple families have more than one child in school. Compound this by what the plan is if someone in class A gets sick and someone in that classroom has a sibling in Class B. Is all of Class B now expected to quarantine? The logistics of this seem almost overwhelming.
Exactly! Just have everyone do virtual. Students without a computer/internet can maybe be sent packets of materials to read and complete.
Or they could be given computers and Internet service. There are already Internet service providers offering deep discounts on both to low-income families with school-age kids. Making up the different probably wouldn't cost anymore than developing a whole secondary logistical framework involving human labor and human contact to create packets of material, deliver, retrieve, and review/grade/provide feedback by hand. Plus the added bonus of not treating kids as "less than" because their parents can't afford a computer and Internet access.
This is probably the best solution given the number of cases we still have, and it's what we tried to do in Chicago when school stopped for the year in the spring. But it's not great -- I think in-person learning is much more effective for many children, especially those who are already most behind or likely to struggle, and there are huge differences in how much the parents will be able to help or even to ensure the children participate in the online lessons -- which is one thing we also discovered (not that it was a surprise) in the spring here.
I just don't think there are any good solutions.5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »If you look at that Johns Hopkins link I posted above, you'll see that our rate of death per case is 3.9% (edit - in the U.S.) and Germany's is 4.5%, so again - not sure what the point was there. Sweden is at 7.3%, UK at 15.4%.
Death per cases is not a reliable stat, because many or most with coronavirus aren't being tested. That's why the best comparison is death per millions.
In addition, deaths per cases is not a reliable stat because our incidence of new cases is rising so fast. The majority of our cases are not yet resolved. You cannot treat all those unresolved cases as cases that did not result in death. Many of them will still result in deaths (based on current figures on the Johns Hopkins site, as many as 11% of those unresolved cases in the U.S. will end in death -- and if you consider that rising cases means greater strain on the health care system and potentially poorer care and triaging, that rate could rise).
Yeah, totally agree, which is why I pointed out that our 422/million is lower than Italy and Spain, but their cases are largely resolved and ours are still rising. Specifically, part of the US (the NE) had quite high peaks and are on the other side. Others flattened the curves much more, but are in a holding pattern where we still are getting far too many new cases and it could easily rise (I'd put Cook County, IL, parts of MI, probably other parts of the industrial midwest, etc. in this category). And many have not yet peaked -- all the states growing now.
The deaths per million are more relevant for the areas that have peaked and are basically on the other side -- many European countries (not the UK), likely (if they avoid a second wave) the NE US, or at least those states that got hit heavily already, and then the other countries that seem to have it under control.I agree that deaths per millions is probably the best comparison between countries, but if you want to get some sense of the percentage of covid cases in a particular country are ending in death, you would do better to look at [deaths] divided by [deaths + recoveries]. Admittedly, that may be a little high, as it appears on average, from the (largely anecdotal) information I've seen, that average time to recovery is probably somewhat longer than average time to death. But it's going to be far closer to the truth than using a denominator in which two-thirds* of the cases have not yet resolved in either death or recovery
I'm operating on the understanding that many of the recovered cases were not caught and that there's likely not a huge difference in the percentage who get it who die, if we knew how many really had it (that latter could be false, but it's simply impossible to compare total number of cases or total recovered, especially when looking at places hit early on, when testing could not keep up).1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.
For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?
I haven't been because when I tried the line was crazy long, but from people here I've heard they have been doing a great job enforcing social distancing.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I could disagree point by point but not with an attorney because I don't have that kind of time.
Let's just say I disagree on most points you just made lemur, because all of them assume we are getting all the numbers - which we aren't - especially from countries that have socialist or communist governments.
What's the basis for thinking we aren't getting the numbers from Germany or most other EU countries or Australia? Because that's what I have been focusing on.There isn't one country (such as Germany) who miraculously just isn't seeing any deaths (or such low deaths like China and Germany) unless there is a lot of deception going on or there is some genetic trait only prevalent in that population - which could turn out to be true, but right now is a wild speculation. Or they have governmental control over their citizens, which I find hard to believe in any country short of communist or dictatorships.
On what basis do you think Germany is lying? Or Australia?
Australia and NZ have relatively low Covid numbers - yes I get that their populations are lower but I mean low proportionate numbers.
They are not communist countries.
One could argue they are more socialist countries than US since they have things like universal medical care - but are you really suggesting that means their Covid numbers are falsified???
I assume you were directing this to cmriverside and not me (even though you quoted me), since it seems like you and I are agreeing.1 -
I guess the thing is that no one thinks "this will happen to me". So why not just take a small trip or visit that relative or etc... And then it seems to surprise people SO much when someone becomes ill. This constantly has me shaking my head. But I know that people can't stay cooped up forever.
I just tell myself it's like when I had a broken leg. Recovery while in the middle of it seemed to drag slowly and slowly and slower. Every doc visit was like "not weight bearing yet?!!!" And here we are in the middle of it and it seems like it will last forever. Yet 5 or 10 years from now I bet it will seem like a blip on the radar to those who managed to avoid it. For others with lastly debilitating effects that's probably a different story. So, If I have to do this for a year, so be it. When we look back it will seem like the blink of an eye.13 -
Our county is adding 200-400+ cases a day. Health dept says it can’t complete contact tracing in 24 hrs when cases are 400 a day, which has happened a few times in the last month and a half.
Against this backdrop, my town announced K-6 will go back to school in person 5 days a week (or parents can choose virtual). From what I understand, teachers are somehow going to manage virtual students and in person class. Not sure how that’s going to work (official statement is a bit vague—just that they’re developing an “application process” for families that want all virtual learning). No mask requirements for in class time, only arrival/dismissal/transition times. 7 grade and up is 2 days in person 3 days virtual. They say entire class/cohort/school *may* transfer to distance learning if Covid exposed.
Larger county school system is delaying opening until 8/31. Parents need to decide by today if they are sending kids back or doing virtual (for county). Decision is binding for fall semester. News report says masks required on buses and in school buildings for staff and students. Again, transfer to distance learning if Covid exposure.
Both systems are giving everyone a device and county is providing “internet device” for those w no home internet.
My kids are staying home from their tutorial this year, and likely from their music classes (no family waiting room offered, kids are in class or off campus, and I am not going to sit in the car for 3 hrs shuffling them in and out of staggered class times). 5yo preschool says they’re going back 5x a week, no masks except for teachers in hallways and parents at drop off. Not sure we’re comfortable with sending him back, esp w such high numbers. Things looked different a few months ago with falling numbers.10 -
Boy, I sure hope so, SummerSkier. I have folkaronies that survived the Great Depression and still talk about it like it was yesterday. Some of them still hide food in the back of their closets for a rainy day. Tinned fishes and the like. Storing up food like a bunch of squirrels and refusing to throw any old condiments away. That's still gooood, that's still good. Don't you dare throw my stuff away. Where's my apple butter, where did all of jelly and jams go. Did you do that, even though I've replaced everything with new jars they want the old stuff. I was going to use that. Sigh and alas, I just can't win. We are all bent on survival but those older birds are really tough. True grit.
Sidenote: For anyone with their hands on the pulse.
The older birds and I are starting to wonder about the future of Rx's. Last winter, it was paper products and cleaning supplies. This winter, we're thinking about Rx shortages. Breathing treatments and the like. No one can prognosticate what's going to happen, not even the experts but there's a concern for those reliant on daily breathing treatments. 8 -
With our county mask mandate going into effect on Monday, as well as some stores (including Wal-Mart) requiring masks on Monday even if our county did not, I made some observations today here (Dyer County, TN - NW part of the state):
1. Car dealership had their "Quick Lane" building closed. Quick Lane is a separate building normally for routine service like oil change / tire rotation. The other building is for other service and parts. They have everyone going to the Service/Parts building. I'm not sure how long this has been the case because I haven't had my car in to this location since sometime last year. Many customers waiting had masks, I didn't see any employees with masks, but that will hopefully change on Mon. when it is required.
2. Wal-Mart closed off one of the doors. While I rarely go to Wal-Mart, I think this is new because I observed several other customers who were unaware (some of which were upset) about having to walk to the other side of the store. There was someone at the entry/exit with a tablet and appeared to be keeping track of how many people were entering/exiting. This was new compared to the last time I was in Wal-Mart a few weeks ago. More people were wearing masks than I've seen before, but it was still less than 50%. I assume that person at the door is going to be enforcing the mask mandate, but my concern is that people will take the mask off once they get inside. Even then, it's probably going to be at least more maskers than they have today.
3. Kroger had someone at the entrance / exit as well. Again, I assume this person will be enforcing the mask mandate starting Monday, but I have the same concern that people will just take it off once inside. Even today, though, there were quite a few people with masks.
4. Save-A-Lot is a smaller store and is always the worst for mask use. That hasn't changed. They don't have anyone to enforce the mask mandate and I'm not sure they will.
I have yet to go to the laundromat, which is self-service anyway and often has people traveling through. This is not just my observation, but also it just makes sense... I also use laundromats when traveling for extended periods of time. Since I don't currently have a washer/dryer at home, I use a laundromat about once per week even when not traveling. While they do not always have an employee on site, I hope they at least post signs so that people are aware of the mask requirement. It is likely that some of their customers will be from outside the area and may be unaware of the local requirement, so I think it's just practical that any place without an employee to tell customers about it should post signs to let customers know.6 -
I lived in Broward County, FL, until 2011.
‘Stupid people’ may force Broward to shut down, vice mayor says
Leaders plead with people to follow the rules so they can keep businesses open
...“We are running out of [hospital] bed space because all of these stupid people who insist it’s nothing worst than the flu are wrong,” said Steve Geller, a commissioner and the county’s vice mayor. “The flu doesn’t fill our intensive-care units.”
...ICU bed capacity at Memorial West Hospital in Pembroke Pines is at 180 percent.
...Said Geller: “We are just telling them to wear a mask, social distance and wash your hands with soap and water. And that seems too much for some people. And it’s killing others. So, yeah, I’m a little angry about that.”
Read more: https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/07/16/stupid-people-may-force-broward-to-shut-down-vice-mayor-says/10 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.
For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?
There is a Trader Joe's close to my house. I used to go maybe once a month, but now on a more regular basis. If you are able, I'd suggest going in off-peak hours. Mine has over-60 hours from 8:00-9:00 and then opens for everyone at 9:00. I get there right at 9:00 and have not ever had to wait outside because of the capacity limit. Weekdays are much better than weekends if you can do it.
It is a small store with narrow aisles, so social distancing can be challenging sometimes, but my store is very strict on their mask policy. They have an employee at the door disinfecting carts and checking for masks.
For checkout, they have another employee directing traffic to the checkout lanes. They take your cart, and you have to stand 6 feet away from the cashier until everything is bagged and it's time to pay. They won't use reusable bags, you have to take the paper ones.
That's how it is at mine...I'm not sure if these policies are nationwide or just in my area (Chicago).
Thanks for the insights. It does sound like they're being very conscientious. I may try going early on Sunday, or putting it off until August when I'll be taking some "staycation" days and can go on a weekday as you suggest. I found that going right after senior hours on a Sunday has worked well at another grocery chain with larger stores and wider aisles.
Went to my local semi-outdoor farmstand today to stock up on fresh produce ("semi" outdoor as most of it is roofed, and there is an indoor space but there are multiple wide doors propped open -- it feels much more like outdoor ventilation than indoor). They've installed plexiglass to protect the workers weighing produce and running the cash register. If you pay by credit card, the device is on your side of the plexiglass.
And I picked up some bagels at a bagel/deli shop that has good social distancing in place and compliant customers -- people wait outside until it's their turn to approach the cashier, and then leave immediately if they didn't order anything (like a sandwich) that they have to wait to be prepared. Most people are just getting bagels, I think, as they just order, pay (credit card only using a device on the customer's side of the plexiglass), and leave.
So going to a regular grocery store isn't urgent for this weekend, although I may find myself having to mix up powdered milk by the end of the week if I don't.3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »If you look at that Johns Hopkins link I posted above, you'll see that our rate of death per case is 3.9% (edit - in the U.S.) and Germany's is 4.5%, so again - not sure what the point was there. Sweden is at 7.3%, UK at 15.4%.
Death per cases is not a reliable stat, because many or most with coronavirus aren't being tested. That's why the best comparison is death per millions.
In addition, deaths per cases is not a reliable stat because our incidence of new cases is rising so fast. The majority of our cases are not yet resolved. You cannot treat all those unresolved cases as cases that did not result in death. Many of them will still result in deaths (based on current figures on the Johns Hopkins site, as many as 11% of those unresolved cases in the U.S. will end in death -- and if you consider that rising cases means greater strain on the health care system and potentially poorer care and triaging, that rate could rise).
Yeah, totally agree, which is why I pointed out that our 422/million is lower than Italy and Spain, but their cases are largely resolved and ours are still rising. Specifically, part of the US (the NE) had quite high peaks and are on the other side. Others flattened the curves much more, but are in a holding pattern where we still are getting far too many new cases and it could easily rise (I'd put Cook County, IL, parts of MI, probably other parts of the industrial midwest, etc. in this category). And many have not yet peaked -- all the states growing now.
The deaths per million are more relevant for the areas that have peaked and are basically on the other side -- many European countries (not the UK), likely (if they avoid a second wave) the NE US, or at least those states that got hit heavily already, and then the other countries that seem to have it under control.I agree that deaths per millions is probably the best comparison between countries, but if you want to get some sense of the percentage of covid cases in a particular country are ending in death, you would do better to look at [deaths] divided by [deaths + recoveries]. Admittedly, that may be a little high, as it appears on average, from the (largely anecdotal) information I've seen, that average time to recovery is probably somewhat longer than average time to death. But it's going to be far closer to the truth than using a denominator in which two-thirds* of the cases have not yet resolved in either death or recovery
I'm operating on the understanding that many of the recovered cases were not caught and that there's likely not a huge difference in the percentage who get it who die, if we knew how many really had it (that latter could be false, but it's simply impossible to compare total number of cases or total recovered, especially when looking at places hit early on, when testing could not keep up).
I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about using [deaths] divided by [deaths + recoveries] to compare across countries. I'm saying if one were trying to get a handle on how many more people might be expected to die in, for example, the U.S. among the 2.4 million current unresolved cases, and additional 70,000 new cases per diem, one should not divide deaths by total cases, but rather deaths by resolved cases (deaths + recoveries).
It won't be perfect. It might overestimate because of possible disparities between the death and recovery timelines as well as the possibility that wider testing is picking up more asymptomatic and mild cases and the possibility that treatment protocols are improving and becoming more effective over time. On the other hand, it might underestimate because rising cases will overwhelm the health system and lead to compromised treatment and even denial of treatment. In any case, it has to be a lot better estimate than using an inflated denominator that assumes that none of those 2.4 million current unresolved cases and daily additional 70,000 new cases will end in death.1 -
2
-
Our Mayor in Chicago said if the young people don't start wearing masks and practice social distancing, we are going back to Phase 3 which means closing businesses, restaurants, salons and THE GYM!!!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!
And yet, I haven't seen anyone at the gym without a mask. They are cleaning the equipment. So what is the value of closing places that based on the science, are low risk to spread? I though decisions were being made based on facts and science.4
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 422 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions