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Why do people keep defending sugar?
Replies
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well I think I do too - but then I am not in US so maybe I dont count
4 -
Sugar, like most foods, can be part of a healthy diet. As a T2D I can eat an occasional serving of full strength chocolate ice cream (with all its sugary goodness) without spiking my blood sugar or adding so much as an ounce of fat. What I can't do is eat 3, 4, 5 servings (as I used to) and not suffer the consequences. But that goes for many non-sugary foods, too.
If ya'll want to believe that eating any amount of sugar (added, refined, or what-have-you), is a cardinal sin, or that the world really is flat, no one here will laugh. Well, at least most of us won't let you see us laugh. 🤣🤣🤣
6 -
Why do people defend sugar? I think many of us like it and don't want to give it up entirely. That is me. Two teaspoonfuls in my coffee in the morning.2
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Pogostickers wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »
Well you dont have to have it in your life if you dont want to.
There are things I feel that way about too - liver, tripe, cucumber.
But I dont expect everybody else to not want them in their life.
I don't eat or use refined sugar. I also do not expect anything from anyone.
Well your posts in this thread have given the impression you think everyone should not eat or use refined sugar.
9 -
fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
5 -
Pogostickers wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »
Well you dont have to have it in your life if you dont want to.
There are things I feel that way about too - liver, tripe, cucumber.
But I dont expect everybody else to not want them in their life.
I don't eat or use refined sugar. I also do not expect anything from anyone.
Well your posts in this thread have given the impression you think everyone should not eat or use refined sugar.
That is your interpretation.
I think the throwing it out there that sugar killed half your family and then the seemingly sarcastic have fun and good luck posts might have helped that interpretation.
*goes to suck the chocolate off more peanut m&ms*21 -
Pogostickers wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »
Well you dont have to have it in your life if you dont want to.
There are things I feel that way about too - liver, tripe, cucumber.
But I dont expect everybody else to not want them in their life.
I don't eat or use refined sugar. I also do not expect anything from anyone.
Well your posts in this thread have given the impression you think everyone should not eat or use refined sugar.
Just because my opinions on sugar are not positive does not mean I am telling anyone to do anything. People do what they want.
Of course people do what they want - that wasn't in dispute.
Your opinion nevertheless came across as thinking everyone should avoid all refined sugar.
That is my interpretation, sure. -if you are not saying that and I misinterpreted ( seems like not just me who did ) then maybe clarify what you are saying.
11 -
psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
I handle this a bit differently. I eat food. I don't eat "sugar" or "fat" or whatever. I don't get my sugar from sources because getting my sugar is not important, I don't even look at it, I just eat food and sometimes it has sugar and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the sugar is of the added sort, sometimes it's not. I focus on 2 things: eating foods I enjoy, and overall meeting my nutrient needs within calories.
What I do eat is more important to me than what I don't eat, and sometimes something that has added sugar is worth it and sometimes it isn't, just like any other food that has any other ingredient. I make my decisions on a food to food basis, I don't need to waste my effort on setting up rules for trivial things that don't affect my health or weight management. For example, yesterday I had ice cream planned but I was a bit hungrier than usual so I decided to eat a hearty snack instead because it felt more worth it. Sometimes ice cream is exactly what I need and it's worth it.
15 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
I handle this a bit differently. I eat food. I don't eat "sugar" or "fat" or whatever. I don't get my sugar from sources because getting my sugar is not important, I don't even look at it, I just eat food and sometimes it has sugar and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the sugar is of the added sort, sometimes it's not. I focus on 2 things: eating foods I enjoy, and overall meeting my nutrient needs within calories.
What I do eat is more important to me than what I don't eat, and sometimes something that has added sugar is worth it and sometimes it isn't, just like any other food that has any other ingredient. I make my decisions on a food to food basis, I don't need to waste my effort on setting up rules for trivial things that don't affect my health or weight management. For example, yesterday I had ice cream planned but I was a bit hungrier than usual so I decided to eat a hearty snack instead because it felt more worth it. Sometimes ice cream is exactly what I need and it's worth it.
I agree with your statement, but we have to look at added sugar intake in the context of overall diet. When Cuba went into a massive recession in the past, added sugar intake went up and fat intake went down. Overall caloric intake went down. They could not afford gas, so many people started walking everywhere. Many folks lost weight. So, added sugar in the context of a deficit or energy equilibrium has no effect on weight. When people on MFP, such as yourself, count calories and have added sugar with energy equilibrium, it has little effect. Unfortunately, most western/ affluent individuals do not track their intake. We have seen that added sugar does not have the same effect on satiety as food in its whole form. This is probably why we see a correlation between Sugary Beverage consumption and weight gain, no correlation between weight gain and fresh fruit consumption. There is actually a net slimming effect in replacing sugary beverages with fresh fruit for the same "sugar" intake.3 -
One day I just stopped eating refined sugar as much as I used too. In fact certain foods like candy and sweeter baked goods that I used to crave outright repulsed me. Even now I get queasy thinking about eating certain desserts. I find all of this taste preference stuff fascinating.
However, I do sense like with most things people come to the table with emotions that while tied to the issue, cloud the discussion. Anyhoo, one thing that is interesting now is that I crave fruits and vegitables where I used to crave donuts, soda, and candy. Fruit for instance and nuts have such amazing depths of flavor that I was never able to find among the foods made with refined sugars. By eating less refined sugar, my eyes have been opened to a bounty of natural flavors that are super amazing!
3 -
psychod787 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
I handle this a bit differently. I eat food. I don't eat "sugar" or "fat" or whatever. I don't get my sugar from sources because getting my sugar is not important, I don't even look at it, I just eat food and sometimes it has sugar and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the sugar is of the added sort, sometimes it's not. I focus on 2 things: eating foods I enjoy, and overall meeting my nutrient needs within calories.
What I do eat is more important to me than what I don't eat, and sometimes something that has added sugar is worth it and sometimes it isn't, just like any other food that has any other ingredient. I make my decisions on a food to food basis, I don't need to waste my effort on setting up rules for trivial things that don't affect my health or weight management. For example, yesterday I had ice cream planned but I was a bit hungrier than usual so I decided to eat a hearty snack instead because it felt more worth it. Sometimes ice cream is exactly what I need and it's worth it.
I agree with your statement, but we have to look at added sugar intake in the context of overall diet. When Cuba went into a massive recession in the past, added sugar intake went up and fat intake went down. Overall caloric intake went down. They could not afford gas, so many people started walking everywhere. Many folks lost weight. So, added sugar in the context of a deficit or energy equilibrium has no effect on weight. When people on MFP, such as yourself, count calories and have added sugar with energy equilibrium, it has little effect. Unfortunately, most western/ affluent individuals do not track their intake. We have seen that added sugar does not have the same effect on satiety as food in its whole form. This is probably why we see a correlation between Sugary Beverage consumption and weight gain, no correlation between weight gain and fresh fruit consumption. There is actually a net slimming effect in replacing sugary beverages with fresh fruit for the same "sugar" intake.
While I agree with all of this, I think the last part might apply specifically to sweetened drinks. Most of the added sugar I eat comes along with fat and even some protein, and I don't find much difference in satiety between high sugar days and low sugar days. My added sugar often comes in icecream, brownies, sauces or condiments added to whole foods meals, protein bars.
Having said that, if I didn't log food I'd eat too much of those foods, but I'd also eat too much cheese and nuts and not be satiated by those either. I also don't find fruit even remotely filling by itself.
Sugary drinks are I think typically problematic to anyone not successfully moderating and not tracking their intake. Cutting way down on the sweet calories in my drinks was instrumental in getting my calories in line
I still enjoy a glass of juice or a sweet coffee drink occasionally but it's rare. 2 -
Let's start a gangdebrakgoogins wrote: »(...) I gained weight eating savory and fatty foods.
One thing I find funny about the sugar debate is that the reason it's a problem for a lot of people is precisely the reason why sugar became so popular and widespread in the first place: it's a compact source of easily digestible calories that doesn't create a feeling of satiety.
That was a very good thing back when keeping weight on was a bigger struggle than keeping it off...6 -
psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
I always find this odd, although enough people say it that it must be a thing.
I did not find fruit to taste different based on me eating more or less sugar.
I got fat eating little added sugar, ate more ice cream than before when losing, and have currently lost my taste for dessert so don't eat ice cream. Fruit has tasted the same (quite sweet), throughout.5 -
psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
Yep, we agree. But many people are able to include small amounts of added sugar in a healthy overall diet.2 -
psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
I always find this odd, although enough people say it that it must be a thing.
I did not find fruit to taste different based on me eating more or less sugar.
I got fat eating little added sugar, ate more ice cream than before when losing, and have currently lost my taste for dessert so don't eat ice cream. Fruit has tasted the same (quite sweet), throughout.
Yeah I do find it odd too. I'm someone who can't have a savory food that tastes sweet. I can't eat sweet potatoes or certain squashes because they taste too sweet to be a savory food. I can't eat BBQ sauce because it tastes too sweet. Pretty much the only sweet things I can handle are cooked carrots and onions because I'm used to them, and yes, they still taste sweet although I eat things with added sugar. Cherry tomatoes are my least favorite type of tomatoes because they're too sweet.1 -
psychod787 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
I handle this a bit differently. I eat food. I don't eat "sugar" or "fat" or whatever. I don't get my sugar from sources because getting my sugar is not important, I don't even look at it, I just eat food and sometimes it has sugar and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the sugar is of the added sort, sometimes it's not. I focus on 2 things: eating foods I enjoy, and overall meeting my nutrient needs within calories.
What I do eat is more important to me than what I don't eat, and sometimes something that has added sugar is worth it and sometimes it isn't, just like any other food that has any other ingredient. I make my decisions on a food to food basis, I don't need to waste my effort on setting up rules for trivial things that don't affect my health or weight management. For example, yesterday I had ice cream planned but I was a bit hungrier than usual so I decided to eat a hearty snack instead because it felt more worth it. Sometimes ice cream is exactly what I need and it's worth it.
I agree with your statement, but we have to look at added sugar intake in the context of overall diet. When Cuba went into a massive recession in the past, added sugar intake went up and fat intake went down. Overall caloric intake went down. They could not afford gas, so many people started walking everywhere. Many folks lost weight. So, added sugar in the context of a deficit or energy equilibrium has no effect on weight. When people on MFP, such as yourself, count calories and have added sugar with energy equilibrium, it has little effect. Unfortunately, most western/ affluent individuals do not track their intake. We have seen that added sugar does not have the same effect on satiety as food in its whole form. This is probably why we see a correlation between Sugary Beverage consumption and weight gain, no correlation between weight gain and fresh fruit consumption. There is actually a net slimming effect in replacing sugary beverages with fresh fruit for the same "sugar" intake.
Yep see if you can eat 7 apples (about 100 calories each) vs downing 700 calories of pop.1 -
psychod787 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
I handle this a bit differently. I eat food. I don't eat "sugar" or "fat" or whatever. I don't get my sugar from sources because getting my sugar is not important, I don't even look at it, I just eat food and sometimes it has sugar and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the sugar is of the added sort, sometimes it's not. I focus on 2 things: eating foods I enjoy, and overall meeting my nutrient needs within calories.
What I do eat is more important to me than what I don't eat, and sometimes something that has added sugar is worth it and sometimes it isn't, just like any other food that has any other ingredient. I make my decisions on a food to food basis, I don't need to waste my effort on setting up rules for trivial things that don't affect my health or weight management. For example, yesterday I had ice cream planned but I was a bit hungrier than usual so I decided to eat a hearty snack instead because it felt more worth it. Sometimes ice cream is exactly what I need and it's worth it.
I agree with your statement, but we have to look at added sugar intake in the context of overall diet. When Cuba went into a massive recession in the past, added sugar intake went up and fat intake went down. Overall caloric intake went down. They could not afford gas, so many people started walking everywhere. Many folks lost weight. So, added sugar in the context of a deficit or energy equilibrium has no effect on weight. When people on MFP, such as yourself, count calories and have added sugar with energy equilibrium, it has little effect. Unfortunately, most western/ affluent individuals do not track their intake. We have seen that added sugar does not have the same effect on satiety as food in its whole form. This is probably why we see a correlation between Sugary Beverage consumption and weight gain, no correlation between weight gain and fresh fruit consumption. There is actually a net slimming effect in replacing sugary beverages with fresh fruit for the same "sugar" intake.
While I agree with all of this, I think the last part might apply specifically to sweetened drinks. Most of the added sugar I eat comes along with fat and even some protein, and I don't find much difference in satiety between high sugar days and low sugar days. My added sugar often comes in icecream, brownies, sauces or condiments added to whole foods meals, protein bars.
Having said that, if I didn't log food I'd eat too much of those foods, but I'd also eat too much cheese and nuts and not be satiated by those either. I also don't find fruit even remotely filling by itself.
Sugary drinks are I think typically problematic to anyone not successfully moderating and not tracking their intake. Cutting way down on the sweet calories in my drinks was instrumental in getting my calories in line I still enjoy a glass of juice or a sweet coffee drink occasionally but it's rare.
Your not getting all "basic" on me i hope ma'am!🤣 I didn't talk about added fats dt this being a discussion on sugar, but yes, it does make the sugar taste better!psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
Yep, we agree. But many people are able to include small amounts of added sugar in a healthy overall diet.
Strange how we think so similarly? I would agree, some occasionally added sugars in the context of a sound dietary strategy is fine. ( Don't tell anyone, but i had a fresh cookie at work yesterday.... shhh... remember, snitches get stitches!😉)Theoldguy1 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »fitnessjustin01 wrote: »I don't know... because it's a socially accepted drug? 🤔
<---- is currently mainlining his apple right now..... ahhh...., sweet, pun intended, bliss!jdecker32356 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Pogostickers wrote: »Maybe they never had half their family die from it
Is this a serious comment??
People are not dying from sugar
well, I guess a type 1 diabetic could go into diabetic coma and die if they ate massive amount and did not take their insulin. I knew somebody once who almost did that - was in ICU with BSL of 48 - but did recover.
But, most people can eat sugar in sensible amounts. Even diabetics can eat it in small amounts.
The issue is not sugar per se but over consumption leadng to obesity related diseases or, in case of diabetics, to diabetic complications.
Context. Dosage.
You conflated an instantaneous consequence with an average over time consequence, in order to call someone else dumb. People aren't talking about eating a lot of sugar once, they're talking about eating a lot of it over time, which would why diabetes is called a CHRONIC illness.
Um, no. The debate in this thread seems definitely to be between those who think sugar (or added sugar) in any amount is terrible and those of us saying it's fine in moderate amounts in the context of a healthful overall diet.Lol no one eats sugar in "sensible" amounts in the US.
No one? I think many of us here do.
It usually comes in a small package, with loads of fat, that is easy to over eat on. I have seen the research, a high sugar diet can actually lower overall fasting blood sugars in HEALTHY adults. It is because they lose weight and insulin sensitivity goes up usually when people lower adiposity.
@Pogostickers , I am with you ma'am, personally added sugars are just not worth the added calories or lack of satiety for me. I prefer my sugars to come from fruits and veggies. I noticed when I gave up added sugar, fruit became super sweet. Taste can change.
I handle this a bit differently. I eat food. I don't eat "sugar" or "fat" or whatever. I don't get my sugar from sources because getting my sugar is not important, I don't even look at it, I just eat food and sometimes it has sugar and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes the sugar is of the added sort, sometimes it's not. I focus on 2 things: eating foods I enjoy, and overall meeting my nutrient needs within calories.
What I do eat is more important to me than what I don't eat, and sometimes something that has added sugar is worth it and sometimes it isn't, just like any other food that has any other ingredient. I make my decisions on a food to food basis, I don't need to waste my effort on setting up rules for trivial things that don't affect my health or weight management. For example, yesterday I had ice cream planned but I was a bit hungrier than usual so I decided to eat a hearty snack instead because it felt more worth it. Sometimes ice cream is exactly what I need and it's worth it.
I agree with your statement, but we have to look at added sugar intake in the context of overall diet. When Cuba went into a massive recession in the past, added sugar intake went up and fat intake went down. Overall caloric intake went down. They could not afford gas, so many people started walking everywhere. Many folks lost weight. So, added sugar in the context of a deficit or energy equilibrium has no effect on weight. When people on MFP, such as yourself, count calories and have added sugar with energy equilibrium, it has little effect. Unfortunately, most western/ affluent individuals do not track their intake. We have seen that added sugar does not have the same effect on satiety as food in its whole form. This is probably why we see a correlation between Sugary Beverage consumption and weight gain, no correlation between weight gain and fresh fruit consumption. There is actually a net slimming effect in replacing sugary beverages with fresh fruit for the same "sugar" intake.
Yep see if you can eat 7 apples (about 100 calories each) vs downing 700 calories of pop.
Actually, I did eat an entire 3lb bag of fresh peaches when I was at my leanest. Only thing that stopped me from eating more was I ran out. Now, i would struggle even with my high appetite.6 -
When adding foods to the food diary, it records all sugars (natural and added) as sugar. I've been told that I should be counting/restricting the grams of added sugar and not be concerned with the naturally occurring sugars. Is this accurate advice?0
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When adding foods to the food diary, it records all sugars (natural and added) as sugar. I've been told that I should be counting/restricting the grams of added sugar and not be concerned with the naturally occurring sugars. Is this accurate advice?
Reasonably. WHO, USDA, and like international/national bodies normally recommend that we limit added sugar (including "natural" sugars like honey, concentrated fruit juice, maple syrup, etc.). They are not so concerned about sugars inherent in things like whole fruits, veggies, and dairy foods. Inherent sugars normally come in less concentrated form, and bring a bonus of other nutrients.
I've read the USDA & WHO material in some detail. They seem to have 3 basic reasons for this recommendation: (1) excessive added sugar, being calorie dense, drives out well-rounded nutrition if one sticks to sensible calorie intake, (2) sort of the flip side, excessive added sugar tends to cause too-high calorie intake if one gets proper nutrition alongside, and (3) sugar can cause dental cavities.
Personally, given the reasoning, I think it makes the most sense to get the proper number of calories, and prioritize well-rounded nutrition, and think more in terms of fitting any desired added sugar in around that. Focusing on good nutrition and proper calorie level is beneficial and IMO those are the more important goals. If those are managed appropriately, added sugar tends to fall into a sensible range.
On the other hand, explicit attention to reducing/eliminating added sugar doesn't necessarily guarantee either good nutrition or proper calories: It's possible to get sub-standard nutrition without any added sugar at all, or excess calories without any added sugar (fats, for example, are also calorie dense - more so than sugar, actually - so can be eaten to excess at the expense of other nutrition).5 -
When adding foods to the food diary, it records all sugars (natural and added) as sugar. I've been told that I should be counting/restricting the grams of added sugar and not be concerned with the naturally occurring sugars. Is this accurate advice?
@janereiff
"When adding foods to the food diary, it records all sugars (natural and added) as sugar."
As your body has no way of knowing the source of your sugar, whether a naturally occurring part of a food or drink item or refined and added to a food item that's entirely reasonable.
"I've been told that I should be counting/restricting the grams of added sugar and not be concerned with the naturally occurring sugars. Is this accurate advice?"
Not really - it's a dumbed down overly simple message for the general public for whom making better food choices (including but not limited to sugar in all its forms) could well be beneficial for many.
You could overeat on a diet with zero added sugar, you could eat what is personally an inappropriate amount of intrinsic/natural sugar for your particular and personal needs within your calorie needs but crowding out other valuable nutrition.
An analogy would be road safety campaigns using a simple and extremely dumbed down message of "Speed Kills".
It's completely inaccurate (sudden deceleration and impacts can kill but not speed alone) but for people with little knowledge of how to be a safe driver/rider it may have a benefit of people having fewer accidents and at lower speeds.
Just like "Be A Better Driver" as a slogan would just wash over many people and have no impact on behaviours so would "Eat A Better Overall Diet".
4 -
I don't track sugar, I track fiber and it seems to take care of itself...2
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Let's start a gangdebrakgoogins wrote: »(...) I gained weight eating savory and fatty foods.
I've thought about a motorcycle gang but every name I come up with just sounds wrong. I can't imagine a leather jacket with a big skull and the words "Sausage Hogs" or "Pepperoni Riders".4 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »
Let's start a gangdebrakgoogins wrote: »(...) I gained weight eating savory and fatty foods.
I've thought about a motorcycle gang but every name I come up with just sounds wrong. I can't imagine a leather jacket with a big skull and the words "Sausage Hogs" or "Pepperoni Riders".
Aprons, not leather jackets.
I propose the name Lasagna Hogs with the motto: Go Hang a Salami. So the mantra would be:
"Go hang a salami; I'm a lasagna hog."
Read that from back to front now.Or read THIS one backwards:
goh angasal a mi imalas a gnah og4 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »
Let's start a gangdebrakgoogins wrote: »(...) I gained weight eating savory and fatty foods.
I've thought about a motorcycle gang but every name I come up with just sounds wrong. I can't imagine a leather jacket with a big skull and the words "Sausage Hogs" or "Pepperoni Riders".
Aprons, not leather jackets.
I propose the name Lasagna Hogs with the motto: Go Hang a Salami. So the mantra would be:
"Go hang a salami; I'm a lasagna hog."
Read that from back to front now.
The Pot Pie Putters?2 -
To much added sugar will "mess" up your heart and lead to insulin resistance and weight gain.
The reason why it leads to weight gain is because your body is essentially something with zero nutritional value but an extremely high caloric count. So you wind up wasting your caloric limit on useless food, thus gaining weight while at the same time being starved nutritionally.
Non-added sugar however is different, because it one contains lots of nutrients and two has high amounts of fiber which limits the glycemic index of the food. Increasing the time over which glucose thus insulin is released. Which is why complex carbohydrates are better, than simple carbohydrates like sugar. Because non-added sugars take longer to hit your blood it allows them to be actually "used", instead of stored as fat immediately like added sugar is. (Both should be limited though, just added sugars more so)
Sugar,however ,hits your blood stream immediately and releases all that glucose at once, instead of over time, putting you on the path to diabetes through increased insulin resistance.
There is no reason to eat an excess of added sugar, it only hurts and is bad for energy (see sugar crashes) not good.
There is no defense for it.2 -
I'm not rereading all 9 pages of this thread, but I'm going to go out on a limb and posit that no one in this thread suggested it was fine to eat an excess of added sugar.
If you are eating a calorie appropriate diet and hitting minimum goals for protein, fat, and fiber you are almost assured to NOT be eating an excess of any sort of sugar regularly. And you will not be obese, so for mfp folks there is no reason to be scared of sugar. Have some ice cream 12 -
gadorlogor wrote: »To much added sugar will "mess" up your heart and lead to insulin resistance and weight gain.
The reason why it leads to weight gain is because your body is essentially something with zero nutritional value but an extremely high caloric count. So you wind up wasting your caloric limit on useless food, thus gaining weight while at the same time being starved nutritionally.
Non-added sugar however is different, because it one contains lots of nutrients and two has high amounts of fiber which limits the glycemic index of the food. Increasing the time over which glucose thus insulin is released. Which is why complex carbohydrates are better, than simple carbohydrates like sugar. Because non-added sugars take longer to hit your blood it allows them to be actually "used", instead of stored as fat immediately like added sugar is. (Both should be limited though, just added sugars more so)
Sugar,however ,hits your blood stream immediately and releases all that glucose at once, instead of over time, putting you on the path to diabetes through increased insulin resistance.
There is no reason to eat an excess of added sugar, it only hurts and is bad for energy (see sugar crashes) not good.
There is no defense for it.
You can replace "sugar" in most places in your argument with "oil". I don't think anyone advocates eating anything in excess because anything in excess, including things that people consider "healthy" like nuts, will cause you to gain weight.
The insulin talk is silly. Ask yourself: does it make sense to store something as fat immediately (and keep it stored) if the body is not getting excess energy? Would your body rather use that energy to run its functions or arbitrarily make permanent fat out of it for the heck of it ignoring its functions? Just a note and feel free to look it up: storing sugar as fat is actually very hard and complicated. In a calorie surplus, your body would rather store fat as fat when it has access to it.
As for "extremely high caloric count with no nutrients" here is a comparison showing how skewed our perspective is:
By volume:
A cup of granulated sugar: 774 calories
A cup of oil: 1927 calories
By weight:
100 grams of granulated sugar: 387 calories
100 grams of oil: 884 calories
By usable portion:
2 tsp of granulated sugar: 32 calories
2 tsp of oil: 80 calories
By nutrients per calorie: trace amounts for both, with some exceptions. Neither has a good micronutrient density with the exception of vitamin E in specific kinds of oils which can be had elsewhere accompanied by a bunch of other nutrients.15 -
gadorlogor wrote: »To much added sugar will "mess" up your heart and lead to insulin resistance and weight gain.
No one has suggested it's a good idea to eat too much added sugar. Too much anything is bad -- that's a truism, it's what "too much" means.The reason why it leads to weight gain is because your body is essentially something with zero nutritional value but an extremely high caloric count. So you wind up wasting your caloric limit on useless food, thus gaining weight while at the same time being starved nutritionally.
Maybe in a few cases. More often, people eat a wide variety of foods, likely have sufficient nutrition, but end up overeating because they are consuming in addition to more nutrient dense foods, lots of sweet treats with sugar AND fat (typically half the cals from fat), or in some cases lots of soda. Clearly, that's not a good idea, and the best place to cut back is the volume of nutrient-low/high-cal foods.Non-added sugar however is different, because it one contains lots of nutrients and two has high amounts of fiber which limits the glycemic index of the food.
This is a misunderstanding. Sugar is sugar. What matters is what it is packaged with. Added sugar can be packaged with other refined carbs and fat (say, a donut) OR it can be packaged with lots of other options. Some might add a little sugar to a homemade dressing that goes on a very nutrient dense salad (since they find it tastier that way), others might like a little honey on roasted carrots, still others might make a pot of steel cut oats and enjoy it with some seeds and berries and -- horrors! -- a bit of brown sugar. It's not that uncommon to use honey in a glaze on meat or otherwise to incorporate it into a nutrient dense (and fiber full) meal.
Similarly, while intrinsic sugar often comes with fiber and nutrients, the amount of fiber and nutrients varies greatly.
And, of course, even lower nutrient, cal dense foods (like, say, ice cream) can be incorporated into a healthy and calorie appropriate diet.
Oh, and as for bad for energy, lots of distance runners and bikers find even nutrient lacking pure sugar (in various forms) to be great for energy. Juice can work too (just harder to run with and some find it harder to digest) -- that's low fiber but not nutrient lacking, btw. And one reason a banana can be a great source of instant energy is that it does not have all that much fiber so digests quite quickly.9 -
gadorlogor wrote: »To much added sugar will "mess" up your heart and lead to insulin resistance and weight gain.
The reason why it leads to weight gain is because your body is essentially something with zero nutritional value but an extremely high caloric count. So you wind up wasting your caloric limit on useless food, thus gaining weight while at the same time being starved nutritionally.
Non-added sugar however is different, because it one contains lots of nutrients and two has high amounts of fiber which limits the glycemic index of the food. Increasing the time over which glucose thus insulin is released. Which is why complex carbohydrates are better, than simple carbohydrates like sugar. Because non-added sugars take longer to hit your blood it allows them to be actually "used", instead of stored as fat immediately like added sugar is. (Both should be limited though, just added sugars more so)
Sugar,however ,hits your blood stream immediately and releases all that glucose at once, instead of over time, putting you on the path to diabetes through increased insulin resistance.
There is no reason to eat an excess of added sugar, it only hurts and is bad for energy (see sugar crashes) not good.
There is no defense for it.
"Too much" of anything is bad. That's the definition of "too much," so it's a circular argument.
The question is, is there a level of sugar consumption that is compatible with being healthy?
I argue that the answer is "yes," because we see all kinds of people thriving while including sugar in their diet.
Edit: Oops, @lemurcat2 already pointed out that "too much" is, of course, too much.10 -
gadorlogor wrote: »To much added sugar will "mess" up your heart and lead to insulin resistance and weight gain.
The reason why it leads to weight gain is because your body is essentially something with zero nutritional value but an extremely high caloric count. So you wind up wasting your caloric limit on useless food, thus gaining weight while at the same time being starved nutritionally.
Non-added sugar however is different, because it one contains lots of nutrients and two has high amounts of fiber which limits the glycemic index of the food. Increasing the time over which glucose thus insulin is released. Which is why complex carbohydrates are better, than simple carbohydrates like sugar. Because non-added sugars take longer to hit your blood it allows them to be actually "used", instead of stored as fat immediately like added sugar is. (Both should be limited though, just added sugars more so)
Sugar,however ,hits your blood stream immediately and releases all that glucose at once, instead of over time, putting you on the path to diabetes through increased insulin resistance.
There is no reason to eat an excess of added sugar, it only hurts and is bad for energy (see sugar crashes) not good.
There is no defense for it.
I must be a special snowflake...1
This discussion has been closed.
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