Coronavirus prep

@Noreenmarie1234 I have heard other such stories

@Jeromebarry1 Let's assume for a minute that the illness was COVID, and your question is why the lack of deaths. Two points I will bring up. One there were two strains that came into the US. If I am remembering correctly, the one that came to the US directly from China was a weaker strain than the one that came in vis Europe. Point two relates to the demographics of those contracting the virus as well as the hospitalization and death rates. So the majority of those you mentioned were young, and that category is know for handling the virus well, so one needs to exclude all them. Of the remaining, you mention very few adults and of them one of them had difficult symptoms. Isn't that pretty much on par with the hospitalization and death rate patterns? I personally know 3 + 1 likely COVID cases. Ages were 59, 58, 69 (while cancer treatments), 70. All of them had essentially no symptoms (3 had headaches for a day, and cancer patient had "a little phlegm") and were mainly caught due to precautionary testing. So, do I believe it is possible that was COVID? Sure. If it were my family, I would be asking if antibody testing could help figure that out.

JeromeBarry1 wrote: »

Bump. But I have a question. I learned a few weeks ago that a high school student in the city of Boerne, Texas, which is 1 county north of San Antonio, used the 2019 Thanksgiving holiday to visit her family in China. School resumed in Texas on December 2, 2019. That student participated in a school dance class. Every student in the dance class became infected with a mystery illness in the first week of December, 2019. One of those students was a young cousin of mine. His parents became ill with the mystery illness. His father was particularly badly affected. He visited hospitals in Boerne and Midland seeking help with his difficulty breathing. The family visited the grandparents in Alpine, TX for Christmas, 2019. My elderly cousin knew that her son-in-law was not fully recovered while staying in her home for a week. Neither my elderly cousin nor her even more elderly husband became ill. By the 1st of January, 2020, the outbreak in Boerne had ended without spreading to San Antonio, Midland, or Alpine. This event never has been described as covid-19 because the forensic investigators have never asked if that virus had been in America before March. Why, if it was here in all parts of the U.S. in December of 2019, did it only start killing people in March?

One epidemiologist described it as being like flicking lit matches on a pile of kindling. The first 9 matches might just flame out before anything catches fire and spreads. I did not know about PA water treatment, but I did read that several places in Europe routinely save water samples, and several in fact did find evidence of isolated covid presence in December water samples, too. The epidemiologist described it as a matter of circumstance rather than biology. If the infected person stayed home and away from others, it didn't "catch fire." If the infected person went to a dance class or choir practice or crowded bus it did.

By the way, we have similar stomping grounds. My family hails from the Brewster-Presidio-Davis county area, Alpine being the closest town.

SModa61 wrote: »

paperpudding wrote: »

yes, agreed, snowflake

"Why, if it was here in all parts of the U.S. in December of 2019, did it only start killing people in March? "

False premise - I dont think it was anywhere before the first official cases - doesnt make sense that your one group would have it randomly and then it just peter out with nobody taking any precautions, in a way it hasnt anywhere else.

I remember an article last spring about a British citizen (journalist if I recall) living in China and last fall he came down with an illness, right around Thanksgiving (end Nov). Symptoms were a completePf match to the not yet known COVID and he had a very rough time of it. The doctors at the time took and kept a blood sample. He recovered, and then 3 weeks or a month later, he ends up getting informed that what he had had was COVID. That lines up with first cases being announced. I firmly believe that there were cases prior to the ones identified as such. JMO

Of course, he was in China, around the time the disease is believed to have begun spreading among humans there, so this is a completely different set of facts from those presented by JeromeBarry1

kshama2001 wrote: »

I have chemical sensitivity and my KN-95 mask made me feel ill, especially when it was brand new. For anyone else like this who is not in high risk situations, I recommend these, which are made from organic cotton. The cream is undyed. Latex free elastic is available.

https://decentexposures.com/Cushie/Face-mask

Cotton is apparently a superior choice to synthetic fabrics because the fibers are rougher and thus trap more particles. I would have thought the synthetics were better because you can get a tighter weave but not so.

There's an advantage to masks made of polypropylene (I think) because the material generates some sort of static charge that repels particles (but I can't remember where I read that).

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing mormal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexible because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

Am I wrong?

Here I am going out onto very, very thin ice, especially considering the site I am on right now.

I am talking only about people I know, or have had enough interaction with in my real personal life to have a somewhat well=founded opinion.

There are some people who can't wear a mask for overpowering psychological reasons, or serious physical illness/health condition and I feel sympathy for them. Among those I know (not numerous, and not extreme cases), they are being very cautious in other ways, for example, using delivery when possible as kshama suggests, and somehow toughing out the rules as best they can when needs must (such as in-person medical exams).

There are people who don't want to be ordered to wear a mask because "freedom" and/or "when it's my time, I'll just have to go, and if it's not my time, I'll be OK".

Imagine a Venn diagram. There is a circle for the set of people who are very, very extremely out of shape (and usually obese) but otherwise semi-healthy (in the sense of not having major health issues that healthier lifestyle wouldn't address). There is a circle for the set of people who can't wear a mask because they can't breath, but they're not in either of the two groups I sketched in previous paragraphs. These people \ have difficulty breathing in some common real-life situations even without a mask. The two circles imagined in this paragraph have a significant overlap. The people in the 2nd set are also at significantly increased risk if they do become infected.

Again, this is among people I *actually know*. It's not an observation about anyone I *don't know* or haven't met.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing mormal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexible because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

Am I wrong?

Here I am going out onto very, very thin ice, especially considering the site I am on right now.

I am talking only about people I know, or have had enough interaction with in my real personal life to have a somewhat well=founded opinion.

There are some people who can't wear a mask for overpowering psychological reasons, or serious physical illness/health condition and I feel sympathy for them. Among those I know (not numerous, and not extreme cases), they are being very cautious in other ways, for example, using delivery when possible as kshama suggests, and somehow toughing out the rules as best they can when needs must (such as in-person medical exams).

There are people who don't want to be ordered to wear a mask because "freedom" and/or "when it's my time, I'll just have to go, and if it's not my time, I'll be OK".

Imagine a Venn diagram. There is a circle for the set of people who are very, very extremely out of shape (and usually obese) but otherwise semi-healthy (in the sense of not having major health issues that healthier lifestyle wouldn't address). There is a circle for the set of people who can't wear a mask because they can't breath, but they're not in either of the two groups I sketched in previous paragraphs. These people \ have difficulty breathing in some common real-life situations even without a mask. The two circles imagined in this paragraph have a significant overlap. The people in the 2nd set are also at significantly increased risk if they do become infected.

Again, this is among people I *actually know*. It's not an observation about anyone I *don't know* or haven't met.

The vast majority of people I see not wearing masks are (1) 20s and 30s age people, often with kids, and (2) tourists (this is on the days I go downtown). Maybe there are other factors, but these seem to be a pattern. It's annoying since typically those not wearing masks outside (buildings here are pretty strict) don't try to social distance outside. At traffic lights while walking people will get right up next to you while yelling on a phone or some such, which I consider quite rude as yelling makes spread more likely. But eh, what can you do? It's mostly not political here (expect potentially the tourists), as there's not actually any political diversity here (group one are going to be liberal or even more to the left than the older folks I know (and me) who wear the masks. They just feel invulnerable and no one actually likes wearing a mask.)

I voted on Thursday (overall a great experience) and the woman in front of me had no mask (I think they made her put one on to go in) and was clueless about distancing despite there being the painted marks on the sidewalk. She was African-American, so again I doubt it was a political thing. (I am not interpreting you as saying it is, just observations.)

Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.

SModa61 wrote: »

Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.

Wal-Mart in TN has people at the door also, but they are just standing there. Theoretically they probably are supposed to make sure people wear masks, but I see mask-less customers walk right past them without getting stopped.

BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing mormal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexible because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

Am I wrong?

Here I am going out onto very, very thin ice, especially considering the site I am on right now.

I am talking only about people I know, or have had enough interaction with in my real personal life to have a somewhat well=founded opinion.

There are some people who can't wear a mask for overpowering psychological reasons, or serious physical illness/health condition and I feel sympathy for them. Among those I know (not numerous, and not extreme cases), they are being very cautious in other ways, for example, using delivery when possible as kshama suggests, and somehow toughing out the rules as best they can when needs must (such as in-person medical exams).

<snip for length>

Just to expand on the bolded part from Ann’s post, from a personal standpoint.

Due to events dating back to a previous marriage I have a psychological issue with having my face covered (or wearing a high neck/crew neck top - or anything touching the front of my neck at all) - but it’s just the face covering that’s relevant here, of course.

I was therefore excessively panicked at the thought of mandatory masks in shops here in the UK. At first I just avoided going anywhere and had my husband and daughter do any shopping necessary, but after a short while this became impractical so I gave myself a crude form of ‘exposure therapy’. I started with just wearing it for 20 seconds in the house and increased the time as I managed to tolerate the panic feelings. Once I built up to 5 minutes I went to buy dog food at a local farm and garden supplies shop.

I’m now able to do an entire grocery shop. Although I do absolutely have to have my earphones in and an interesting podcast to listen to the entire time, listening seems to quiet the feeling of panic. I still don’t like it but I can at least tolerate the nausea and panic.

I’m therefore completely willing to accept that there are people out there with much worse issues than I had/have. Because issues are not visible I have to give the odd person I see without a mask the benefit of the doubt. (I also give them a very wide berth! 😂)

I don't know you, but I'm proud of you! What an awesome effort you've made. You are strong and resilient. Rockstar status! ⭐

T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »

SModa61 wrote: »

Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.

Wal-Mart in TN has people at the door also, but they are just standing there. Theoretically they probably are supposed to make sure people wear masks, but I see mask-less customers walk right past them without getting stopped.

At our local Walmart, when they were enforcing/encouraging the mask mandate, people would enter the store with a mask, then take it off as soon as they were past the entrance.