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  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 18,130 Member Member, Premium Posts: 18,130 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing mormal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexible because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

    Am I wrong?

    Here I am going out onto very, very thin ice, especially considering the site I am on right now.

    I am talking only about people I know, or have had enough interaction with in my real personal life to have a somewhat well=founded opinion.

    There are some people who can't wear a mask for overpowering psychological reasons, or serious physical illness/health condition and I feel sympathy for them. Among those I know (not numerous, and not extreme cases), they are being very cautious in other ways, for example, using delivery when possible as kshama suggests, and somehow toughing out the rules as best they can when needs must (such as in-person medical exams).

    There are people who don't want to be ordered to wear a mask because "freedom" and/or "when it's my time, I'll just have to go, and if it's not my time, I'll be OK".

    Imagine a Venn diagram. There is a circle for the set of people who are very, very extremely out of shape (and usually obese) but otherwise semi-healthy (in the sense of not having major health issues that healthier lifestyle wouldn't address). There is a circle for the set of people who can't wear a mask because they can't breath, but they're not in either of the two groups I sketched in previous paragraphs. These people \ have difficulty breathing in some common real-life situations even without a mask. The two circles imagined in this paragraph have a significant overlap. The people in the 2nd set are also at significantly increased risk if they do become infected.

    Again, this is among people I *actually know*. It's not an observation about anyone I *don't know* or haven't met.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member, Premium Posts: 6,502 Member Member, Premium Posts: 6,502 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing normal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexibility because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

    Am I wrong?

    You sound like you are being sarcastic but I am going to answer you seriously :)

    By "normal activities" - do you mean like food shopping? Then they should stay home and get grocery delivery. Here in Massachusetts they would not have a choice. I have not seen a single mask-less person in a supermarket since April (there were town ordinances requiring it before the state-wide mask mandate went into effect in May.)

    (Of course, CORRECT mask wearing is another story. I have seen a fair amount of masks being under the nose, and, what really gets me, people pulling down their mask to talk to shopping partners or on the phone >.<)

    I didn't read his comment as sarcastic, but suggesting that someone who has trouble with a mask would have extra trouble with COVID.

    He's in Central IL, and no clue about that area, but on the North side of Chicago stores and buildings in general have 100% mask compliance from what I see (but like you said often not covering the nose). We also have the laws although kind of hard to enforce as is the issue throughout the country.

    Outside, even though one cannot reliably social distance here, masks are less common, especially among younger people, but I suspect it's a lower risk even not distanced outdoors.

  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member, Premium Posts: 6,502 Member Member, Premium Posts: 6,502 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing mormal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexible because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

    Am I wrong?

    Here I am going out onto very, very thin ice, especially considering the site I am on right now.

    I am talking only about people I know, or have had enough interaction with in my real personal life to have a somewhat well=founded opinion.

    There are some people who can't wear a mask for overpowering psychological reasons, or serious physical illness/health condition and I feel sympathy for them. Among those I know (not numerous, and not extreme cases), they are being very cautious in other ways, for example, using delivery when possible as kshama suggests, and somehow toughing out the rules as best they can when needs must (such as in-person medical exams).

    There are people who don't want to be ordered to wear a mask because "freedom" and/or "when it's my time, I'll just have to go, and if it's not my time, I'll be OK".

    Imagine a Venn diagram. There is a circle for the set of people who are very, very extremely out of shape (and usually obese) but otherwise semi-healthy (in the sense of not having major health issues that healthier lifestyle wouldn't address). There is a circle for the set of people who can't wear a mask because they can't breath, but they're not in either of the two groups I sketched in previous paragraphs. These people \ have difficulty breathing in some common real-life situations even without a mask. The two circles imagined in this paragraph have a significant overlap. The people in the 2nd set are also at significantly increased risk if they do become infected.

    Again, this is among people I *actually know*. It's not an observation about anyone I *don't know* or haven't met.

    The vast majority of people I see not wearing masks are (1) 20s and 30s age people, often with kids, and (2) tourists (this is on the days I go downtown). Maybe there are other factors, but these seem to be a pattern. It's annoying since typically those not wearing masks outside (buildings here are pretty strict) don't try to social distance outside. At traffic lights while walking people will get right up next to you while yelling on a phone or some such, which I consider quite rude as yelling makes spread more likely. But eh, what can you do? It's mostly not political here (expect potentially the tourists), as there's not actually any political diversity here (group one are going to be liberal or even more to the left than the older folks I know (and me) who wear the masks. They just feel invulnerable and no one actually likes wearing a mask.)

    I voted on Thursday (overall a great experience) and the woman in front of me had no mask (I think they made her put one on to go in) and was clueless about distancing despite there being the painted marks on the sidewalk. She was African-American, so again I doubt it was a political thing. (I am not interpreting you as saying it is, just observations.)
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 1,558 Member Member Posts: 1,558 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing normal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexibility because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

    Am I wrong?

    You sound like you are being sarcastic but I am going to answer you seriously :)

    By "normal activities" - do you mean like food shopping? Then they should stay home and get grocery delivery. Here in Massachusetts they would not have a choice. I have not seen a single mask-less person in a supermarket since April (there were town ordinances requiring it before the state-wide mask mandate went into effect in May.)

    (Of course, CORRECT mask wearing is another story. I have seen a fair amount of masks being under the nose, and, what really gets me, people pulling down their mask to talk to shopping partners or on the phone >.<)

    I didn't read his comment as sarcastic, but suggesting that someone who has trouble with a mask would have extra trouble with COVID.

    He's in Central IL, and no clue about that area, but on the North side of Chicago stores and buildings in general have 100% mask compliance from what I see (but like you said often not covering the nose). We also have the laws although kind of hard to enforce as is the issue throughout the country.

    Outside, even though one cannot reliably social distance here, masks are less common, especially among younger people, but I suspect it's a lower risk even not distanced outdoors.

    We live in a mid-sized city in central IL. Pretty good mask compliance in stores/restaurants, etc. People tend to give space if on the sidewalks or multi-use trail but generally not wearing masks. I did stop at a bar/restaurant in a small town about 40 miles away for some carry out. I was the only one in the place with a mask.
  • SModa61SModa61 Member Posts: 1,086 Member Member Posts: 1,086 Member
    Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

    Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunnerT1DCarnivoreRunner Member Posts: 11,161 Member Member Posts: 11,161 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing mormal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexible because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

    Am I wrong?

    It's a fair point, but wearing a mask does very little to keep them from catching it. Masks are most useful when someone is spreading when already infected - even if that person is asymptomatic, pre-symptomatic, or paucisymptomatic. What bugs me most about anti-maskers is that they are getting the benefit from those of us care about fellow citizens and wear a mask, but they don't return the courtesy.

    One person's "very little" is another person's "meaningfully significant," I guess. The benefits to the mask wearer are less than the benefits to those in their vicinity, if the mask wearer is infected, but from what I have read, there are, to me, meaningful benefits to the mask wearer.

    Reports I have seen of physical tests of masks (not transmission tests with human subjects, which I think would be unethical) have found 40% reduction in viral particles to me if I wear a mask and the other person isn't, at less than six feet, and a reduction of about half the remaining particles when the other person is wearing a mask (i.e., from 10% getting through to 5% getting through). I believe the studies I saw were with cotton cloth masks, but the reporting wasn't always clear.

    To me that would seem well worth wearing a mask, completely apart apart from my moral obligation to try to avoid becoming part of the transmission chain if I'm unknowingly infected.

    I've seen much lower numbers - around 17% reduction of transmission to the wearer and >90% reduction from the wearer to others.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunnerT1DCarnivoreRunner Member Posts: 11,161 Member Member Posts: 11,161 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

    Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.

    Wal-Mart in TN has people at the door also, but they are just standing there. Theoretically they probably are supposed to make sure people wear masks, but I see mask-less customers walk right past them without getting stopped.
  • SModa61SModa61 Member Posts: 1,086 Member Member Posts: 1,086 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

    Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.

    Wal-Mart in TN has people at the door also, but they are just standing there. Theoretically they probably are supposed to make sure people wear masks, but I see mask-less customers walk right past them without getting stopped.

    Interesting difference for the same store chain.
  • lynn_glenmontlynn_glenmont Member Posts: 8,546 Member Member Posts: 8,546 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    nj765rzj9etk.jpeg
    bpetrosky wrote: »
    If this thread disappears from the first page of the forum topics, does that mean we're done with covid and can stop worrying about prepping?

    It just means we're prepping for the murder hornets now.

    You mean my mask doesn't protect me from murder hornets? I thought they wouldn't be able to recognize me. :o

    Will this fool the hornets?

    I'm willing to give it a try!
  • jenilla1jenilla1 Member Posts: 10,307 Member Member Posts: 10,307 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    So my thought is that someone who says they can't breathe while doing mormal activities wearing a mask and therefore does wear one should be working on their flexible because they will need to be able to bend and kiss their *kitten* goodbye if they catch this.

    Am I wrong?

    Here I am going out onto very, very thin ice, especially considering the site I am on right now.

    I am talking only about people I know, or have had enough interaction with in my real personal life to have a somewhat well=founded opinion.

    There are some people who can't wear a mask for overpowering psychological reasons, or serious physical illness/health condition and I feel sympathy for them. Among those I know (not numerous, and not extreme cases), they are being very cautious in other ways, for example, using delivery when possible as kshama suggests, and somehow toughing out the rules as best they can when needs must (such as in-person medical exams).

    <snip for length>

    Just to expand on the bolded part from Ann’s post, from a personal standpoint.

    Due to events dating back to a previous marriage I have a psychological issue with having my face covered (or wearing a high neck/crew neck top - or anything touching the front of my neck at all) - but it’s just the face covering that’s relevant here, of course.

    I was therefore excessively panicked at the thought of mandatory masks in shops here in the UK. At first I just avoided going anywhere and had my husband and daughter do any shopping necessary, but after a short while this became impractical so I gave myself a crude form of ‘exposure therapy’. I started with just wearing it for 20 seconds in the house and increased the time as I managed to tolerate the panic feelings. Once I built up to 5 minutes I went to buy dog food at a local farm and garden supplies shop.

    I’m now able to do an entire grocery shop. Although I do absolutely have to have my earphones in and an interesting podcast to listen to the entire time, listening seems to quiet the feeling of panic. I still don’t like it but I can at least tolerate the nausea and panic.

    I’m therefore completely willing to accept that there are people out there with much worse issues than I had/have. Because issues are not visible I have to give the odd person I see without a mask the benefit of the doubt. (I also give them a very wide berth! 😂)

    I don't know you, but I'm proud of you! What an awesome effort you've made. You are strong and resilient. Rockstar status! ⭐
  • FuzzipegFuzzipeg Member Posts: 2,027 Member Member Posts: 2,027 Member
    Thank you Barbra. I want your bridge to be in Plymouth UK but I fear its in the north my geography is far from perfect, and those areas have much higher instances again.

    We in the UK should have access to a "Sunflower badge" for people with hidden disability who can't wear masks, my sister has one for our mother. The scheme can be accessed through Tesco and Sainsbury's. You could ask at your customer services.
    For those who are in abusive relationships, During the worst of lock down there was a scheme where a person with problems could "ask to speak to and a woman's name which was code for help. I'm sorry I can't remember the code name now, I hope someone in need could elicit help by starting the code phrase. "I need to speak to" might elicit a favourable response. My searches have drawn a blank. So may of us have back stories.


  • spiriteagle99spiriteagle99 Member Posts: 2,963 Member Member Posts: 2,963 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

    Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.

    Wal-Mart in TN has people at the door also, but they are just standing there. Theoretically they probably are supposed to make sure people wear masks, but I see mask-less customers walk right past them without getting stopped.

    At our local Walmart, when they were enforcing/encouraging the mask mandate, people would enter the store with a mask, then take it off as soon as they were past the entrance.
  • Noreenmarie1234Noreenmarie1234 Member Posts: 6,072 Member Member Posts: 6,072 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

    Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.

    Wal-Mart in TN has people at the door also, but they are just standing there. Theoretically they probably are supposed to make sure people wear masks, but I see mask-less customers walk right past them without getting stopped.

    At our local Walmart, when they were enforcing/encouraging the mask mandate, people would enter the store with a mask, then take it off as soon as they were past the entrance.

    Wow, that is so crazy how different it is by location. People here have worn them everywhere since march. Even 70% of the people I see running/walking/biking who are outside and not near anyone are still wearing them.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunnerT1DCarnivoreRunner Member Posts: 11,161 Member Member Posts: 11,161 Member
    SModa61 wrote: »
    Jumping in on the mask usage thing. Like kshama, I live primarily in Massachusetts. Here, you are not getting in a store without a mask. Grocery store, walmart, and other large stores, have a monitor at the door checking for masks, and counting bodies so as to not exceed numbers. I went into a Marshalls a few days ago, and not only was there a monitor, but she had a whole supply station of sanitizers, and such (maybe even spare masks). I went into Walgreens yesterday. Another customer made it into the store about 4 feet before the clerk was yelling across the store. The man started apologizing and pulled his mask from his pocket and put it on.

    Ironically, over the summer we "Massachusetts" people were being shut out of Maine (unless could meet their restrictions), because we were so dangerous. Well the whole thing was rediculous from my point of view. Since we have a private home there, we were were able to go up, meet their guidelines, and could observe. When we did go out, there was hardly anyone was wearing masks, Social distancing was rare. I saw people entering stores with no mask and finally one time I asked the monitor about the previous person with no mask. He said they won't stop them because they will be accosted. In contrast, here in Massachusetts, I did a walk early this morning without a mask (we are relatively rural here). As I went through the wooded cut through, a woman was coming the other way. I stepped off the path so we would have at least 5 feet in the open air for the half second we passed. She veered an additional 5 feet off the other side of the path to stay away from me. That is the norm that I see here. Hmmm, Massachusetts vs Maine. And they were worried about us. Yes, Maine made it through the summer relatively unscathed, but the tourist industry was sorely hurt. I think they might have done equally well if they just actually inforced the mask, social distancing type policies, and allowed tourists in to support their businesses.

    Wal-Mart in TN has people at the door also, but they are just standing there. Theoretically they probably are supposed to make sure people wear masks, but I see mask-less customers walk right past them without getting stopped.

    At our local Walmart, when they were enforcing/encouraging the mask mandate, people would enter the store with a mask, then take it off as soon as they were past the entrance.

    I think some did that here too, but even when there was a county ordinance requiring masks, I observed people walk right past the Wal-Mart door employees without a mask.
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Member Posts: 23,138 Member Member Posts: 23,138 Member
    Fuzzipeg wrote: »
    Thank you Barbra. I want your bridge to be in Plymouth UK but I fear its in the north my geography is far from perfect, and those areas have much higher instances again.

    We in the UK should have access to a "Sunflower badge" for people with hidden disability who can't wear masks, my sister has one for our mother. The scheme can be accessed through Tesco and Sainsbury's. You could ask at your customer services.
    For those who are in abusive relationships, During the worst of lock down there was a scheme where a person with problems could "ask to speak to and a woman's name which was code for help. I'm sorry I can't remember the code name now, I hope someone in need could elicit help by starting the code phrase. "I need to speak to" might elicit a favourable response. My searches have drawn a blank. So may of us have back stories.

    Aha! I think you are the person I was thinking of who also has chemical sensitivity and so might benefit from a mask like the one I posted about back one page.

    https://decentexposures.com/Cushie/Face-mask
    edited October 2020
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