Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
"Unrealistic" body goals
Replies
-
L1zardQueen wrote: »Which post or posts are you referring to? You keep going on how some people from this community are not encouraging enough for you.
I'm not going to call out individuals. I'm not saying people aren't encouraging enough, they're discouraging without having a clue about the person they're trying to impose they're defeatist wisdom to. And no, it's not everyone. I've just seen people here being unnecessarily negative.
Oh, I also see people who are more determined to disagree than to try to understand your point. 😂0 -
rheddmobile wrote: »IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »With respect the OP has stated he’s not natural. His physique IS unrealistic, in that he has stated previously he could not obtain it by natural means. It’s clearly POSSIBLE but only if you are open to the same enhancements.
Youre right about me, but I disagree that it's only possible that way. Theres of lot people natural that have better physiques than me. My physique isnt extraordinary imo. I dont believe my physique is unrealistic for someone natural but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about wanting to have a flat belly or single digit bf.
Well... for many women, who tend to lose that pouch of fat under the navel last, a perfectly flat belly is possible, but only if they go down to a body fat level at which they lose their period. I’m not sure unrealistic is the right word, since clearly many female athletes are willing to lose their periods, but “not necessarily the best plan if you’re interested in health and well-being rather than appearance,” is sometimes definitely the case.
I haven’t seen too much of the behavior you describe on the forums, but there are a couple of people in particular who have histories of eating disorder who tend to kind of jump on newbies who start out at normal BMI and want to make drastic lifestyle changes. Maybe a little projecting their own behavior onto others, maybe a little bit they have a point sometimes.
Fair point and that's what I have a problem with. They're the kind of people that would tell their kid that dreams of being a neurosurgeon to just get an average job. I dont feel its anyone's job here to squash someone else's goals. It's just as easy to give them support even if there's a small likelihood of them achieving it.2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Which post or posts are you referring to? You keep going on how some people from this community are not encouraging enough for you.
Yep, I'm curious too. I've been here a long time and this just seems like the OP is determined to chastise some posters (whoever they may be). Yes, a few do what the OP is all upset about, but the majority do not. I'm following this thread and just shaking my head. There are some posters with a history (but we can't mention that) and they make repeated threads on achieving a certain goal, obsession sometimes, and they have been told repeatedly that it takes work to get there. They keep coming back with fresh threads and with the same goals and frustrations, but after the 3rd thread you just know they are not going to take any of the advice. People start to not take those posters seriously. That's what I see.
I'm not chastising anyone, or youd know whoever they may be. I also never said it was the majority.0 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Which post or posts are you referring to? You keep going on how some people from this community are not encouraging enough for you.
Yep, I'm curious too. I've been here a long time and this just seems like the OP is determined to chastise some posters (whoever they may be). Yes, a few do what the OP is all upset about, but the majority do not. I'm following this thread and just shaking my head. There are some posters with a history (but we can't mention that) and they make repeated threads on achieving a certain goal, obsession sometimes, and they have been told repeatedly that it takes work to get there. They keep coming back with fresh threads and with the same goals and frustrations, but after the 3rd thread you just know they are not going to take any of the advice. People start to not take those posters seriously. That's what I see.
I'm not chastising anyone, or youd know whoever they may be. I also never said it was the majority.IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Which post or posts are you referring to? You keep going on how some people from this community are not encouraging enough for you.
Yep, I'm curious too. I've been here a long time and this just seems like the OP is determined to chastise some posters (whoever they may be). Yes, a few do what the OP is all upset about, but the majority do not. I'm following this thread and just shaking my head. There are some posters with a history (but we can't mention that) and they make repeated threads on achieving a certain goal, obsession sometimes, and they have been told repeatedly that it takes work to get there. They keep coming back with fresh threads and with the same goals and frustrations, but after the 3rd thread you just know they are not going to take any of the advice. People start to not take those posters seriously. That's what I see.
I'm not chastising anyone, or youd know whoever they may be. I also never said it was the majority.
I said "whoever they may be" because this OP is just so vague--it's frustrating. What threads? Which posters? No one is saying "Oh yes, this is a real problem and I see it all the time". You have no backup. I'll tell you what. When you see these mythical posters and threads--you jump right in there and tell the OP that their goal is certainly achievable and how to go about it (and maybe give them a time frame). I'll be watching.7 -
The real problem I see is trying to look like someone else. You have all these "fitness influences", who post a selfie and an inspirational quote. Then you see all the "I want to look like him/her". The fitness industry is full of a lot of fake people. I try to be the best I can be. I battle myself, not trying to look like someone else. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't see through the *kitten*. They get sucked into poor diets, useless supplements, etc.11
-
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Which post or posts are you referring to? You keep going on how some people from this community are not encouraging enough for you.
I'm not going to call out individuals. I'm not saying people aren't encouraging enough, they're discouraging without having a clue about the person they're trying to impose they're defeatist wisdom to. And no, it's not everyone. I've just seen people here being unnecessarily negative.
Oh, I also see people who are more determined to disagree than to try to understand your point. 😂
Ah, point taken. Which thread or threads then?4 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »In the last few days I've seen a girl in her 20s be told that wanting a flat belly is unrealistic and a guy be told that sub 10% bf was largely genetics.
When I started my journey, I was obese and from Day 1 I had a "unrealistic" goal physique. It took me over a decade but I achieved that goal and so have hundreds of thousands of other people so why call it unrealistic? It's only so if you believe it.
Instead of discouraging someone looking to achieve something remarkable, why not just say "go for it!"?
Thoughts?
Realistically it comes down to effort, determination, willpower, and genetics. We all have a genetic body fat set point where our body wants to be. We all can maintain a happy zone with our body fat percentage but it's different for everybody. So yes, it's unrealistic to maintain a very low body fat year round without engaging in some sort of eating disorder. It's best to find that zone where you feel good and have energy to live your life. In other words keep a healthy body fat percentage!1 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »In the last few days I've seen a girl in her 20s be told that wanting a flat belly is unrealistic and a guy be told that sub 10% bf was largely genetics.
When I started my journey, I was obese and from Day 1 I had a "unrealistic" goal physique. It took me over a decade but I achieved that goal and so have hundreds of thousands of other people so why call it unrealistic? It's only so if you believe it.
Instead of discouraging someone looking to achieve something remarkable, why not just say "go for it!"?
Thoughts?
Realistically it comes down to effort, determination, willpower, and genetics. We all have a genetic body fat set point where our body wants to be. We all can maintain a happy zone with our body fat percentage but it's different for everybody. So yes, it's unrealistic to maintain a very low body fat year round without engaging in some sort of eating disorder. It's best to find that zone where you feel good and have energy to live your life. In other words keep a healthy body fat percentage!
I agree with you about the value of finding a personal happy spot, but not about the mechanics behind that, I think.
Set point is mostly debunked, as a physiological phenomenon. It's true that most of us have a set of "happy habits" that will lead us to reach a certain weight and hang out there over time, but habits can change. It does seem to be true for most people for physiological reasons that maintaining very low body fat is more difficult.
I stayed around the same (class 1 obese) weight for around 20 years, after gaining to that point over a decade or so. A little over 5 years ago, I lost back down to a healthy weight, and have stayed at a healthy weight since, without major white-knuckling. (I did not drop to an objectively low BF% - probably mostly somewhere mid-20s percents). If set points generally were a thing, this would be unlikely, I think.
Also, it's more common to see people attribute failure to lose weight to their "set point", while seemingly having not much difficulty gaining above that point by eating more, which seems odd.
I9 -
2 words... David Goggins. I think we so quickly limit ourselves to “unrealistic” because it’s comfortable. His 40% rule is enlightening for situations like these. Now, don’t take this post to mean that I think everyone is going to be a David Goggins who runs 13 miles just for the fun of it! Lol he’s a bad*** and puts in a TON of effort everyday. That is the *limitation*... the amount of time/effort people are willing to put in. (I find a lot of inspiration/motivation from him, but I know I will never be a David Goggins because I’m not going to put in the time/effort! Lol) Each individual has to own that, but it doesn’t make their goals unrealistic or unattainable. There’s also plenty of medical conditions/limitations that play into an individual’s abilities, but as previously stated by others there are also people who overcome the odds with a lot of hard work and dedication to beat the odds. Many goals are more mental work than physical.2
-
2 words... David Goggins. I think we so quickly limit ourselves to “unrealistic” because it’s comfortable. His 40% rule is enlightening for situations like these. Now, don’t take this post to mean that I think everyone is going to be a David Goggins who runs 13 miles just for the fun of it! Lol he’s a bad*** and puts in a TON of effort everyday. That is the *limitation*... the amount of time/effort people are willing to put in. (I find a lot of inspiration/motivation from him, but I know I will never be a David Goggins because I’m not going to put in the time/effort! Lol) Each individual has to own that, but it doesn’t make their goals unrealistic or unattainable. There’s also plenty of medical conditions/limitations that play into an individual’s abilities, but as previously stated by others there are also people who overcome the odds with a lot of hard work and dedication to beat the odds. Many goals are more mental work than physical.
THANK YOU! I never want to have the mindset of telling someone their goal is unrealistic because that will also be reflected in what I accomplish. Anyone that has accomplished anything extraordinary has a deep seated belief that the extraordinary is possible.
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those doing it."
Anyhoo, I'm done defending my point. I choose to believe things widely viewed as unrealistic are only so because of that mindset itself and you are doing a disservice to others when you spread it.3 -
🤣 my unrealistic body goal is to have a bod like SHAKIRA... she is my idol 😍. Some people here in the forum are soooo bitter. They think their way is the right way, when in reality sooo many options and methods are available. Whatever works for 1 person may not work with someone else. Good luck reaching those goals folks. Whatever makes you happy, go get it!5
-
Daisy_Girl2019 wrote: »🤣 my unrealistic body goal is to have a bod like SHAKIRA... she is my idol 😍. Some people here in the forum are soooo bitter. They think their way is the right way, when in reality sooo many options and methods are available. Whatever works for 1 person may not work with someone else. Good luck reaching those goals folks. Whatever makes you happy, go get it!
Mine is to have a body like Jennifer Aniston, Mila Kunis or Britney Spears! They are all around the same height as me so in my mind, I should look like them LOL3 -
IronIsMyTherapy wrote: »
THANK YOU! I never want to have the mindset of telling someone their goal is unrealistic because that will also be reflected in what I accomplish. Anyone that has accomplished anything extraordinary has a deep seated belief that the extraordinary is possible.
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those doing it."
Anyhoo, I'm done defending my point. I choose to believe things widely viewed as unrealistic are only so because of that mindset itself and you are doing a disservice to others when you spread it.
I agree... “Master your mind and defy the odds” is the quote on the front of Goggins’ book. Most people need to work on that. I have just got back on here after neglecting my body for over a year. It would be easy to say it’s unrealistic for me to get off my couch and go run 5 miles... truth is, I would just have to mentally prepare that it’s going to hurt, It’s cold, I’m going to want to quit, I may feel like I’m going to die 10 minutes it, but I’m capable of doing it if I keep my mind in check.3 -
Go_Deskercise wrote: »Mine is to have a body like Jennifer Aniston, Mila Kunis or Britney Spears! They are all around the same height as me so in my mind, I should look like them LOL
That's the spirit, girl! 🤣
I like to have fun while reaching my goals. Never a dull moment. 😁 Let's get the bods we like to have. It's our body after all, we don't need permission from strangers... duh!3 -
There will always be naysayers.
Brendan Gallagher “I don’t prove people wrong, I always try to prove people right,”
Picked in the 7th round 147th overall, the experts said his dreams of playing in the NHL were Unrealistic. He was just awarded a 6 year 39 million dollar contract because he proved his coaches and supporter right. Don't tell him he won't win the Stanley Cup.0 -
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.3 -
Daisy_Girl2019 wrote: »🤣 my unrealistic body goal is to have a bod like SHAKIRA... she is my idol 😍. Some people here in the forum are soooo bitter. They think their way is the right way, when in reality sooo many options and methods are available. Whatever works for 1 person may not work with someone else. Good luck reaching those goals folks. Whatever makes you happy, go get it!
Rather than attribute it to bitterness, I tend to think that there are people who have different experiences, motivations, and reactions to what we might call "stretch goals."
If someone feels like THEY would be really upset if they worked hard for a goal and it didn't happen, it may strike them as kindness or consideration to urge others towards what they consider to be more realistic goals. The person with the goal may be perfectly okay working towards looking like Shakira and never quite getting there or even with working towards looking like Shakira and missing it by quite a lot. They're more about the journey and the fun experience of trying different things to get to their goal. But the person giving the advice may not know that or understand that because they're different.
The important thing to remember is that many of these people are trying to be helpful, they're just coming from a different place. I try really hard, especially on the internet where tone can be hard to interpret, not to assume things are coming from negative emotions unless there is good evidence that is the case.
10 -
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?9 -
We have a poster who shows up every few months posting pictures from social media of her "goal" - clearly manipulated photos of a woman with an extreme hourglass figure, and then pictures of herself with what is a naturally pear shaped, overweight body. She is desperate to have this bizarre hourglass shape. Many of us tell her it is highly unlikely she will ever have her goal shape, and suggest ways she can instead focus on losing some fat and build up her glutes. There are always newbies who jump in and criticize us for "being haters" and encourage her to work towards her goal. Dream big and ignore the haters!
What they don't know is that this poster has been spinning her wheels for YEARS trying to get this extreme shape, feeling like a failure, and weighs basically what she did years ago because she's focused on an unrealistic goal. If back on that first thread, she had accepted that she needed a more realistic goal, she could easily be 20 lbs lighter, have a nicely built butt, and feel good about herself for reaching her more realistic goal by now.
Not everyone is motivated by the same things in the same ways. Not everyone is capable of focusing on long term goals and understanding short term setbacks.
I would say there is more leeway in fitness goals. But unrealistic body shape goals are a huge problem, contributing not just to eating disorders but ironically to the obesity crisis as well.18 -
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.0 -
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.
The bolded is a very important point. Too many try to police others responses to things.8 -
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.
While I get the difficulty of pointing out specific examples of posters who behave as some have described in this thread, as it could be interpreted as violating user terms and conditions I believe, I really do feel like you and some others have built up straw men that you're arguing with. I think it is overwhelmingly more common for posters who think someone is aiming at something unrealistic (like a permanent BF% that competitors only attain in the weeks leading up to a competition, or Barbie-like proportions or looking like a photo-shopped Instagram image that even the person in the photo doesn't look like) to offer advice, questions, and suggestions rather than just a simple "that's unrealistic" with no explanation.8 -
@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.11
-
"Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
Vince Lombardi
7 -
@lynn_glenmont @kimny72 I get what you are both saying. I’m certainly not arguing with anyone. And I don’t have any examples of negative things being said on here, as I haven’t experienced it or witnessed it. As you said, the OP provided a rather simple example without much context and I responded to his question ‘thoughts?’
I think many people are capable of far more than they allow themselves to believe. That was my original point. That is why I don’t this it’s necessary to tell someone they have “unrealistic” goals. However, as pointed out this was all started as a generalized question. The whole concept of IG, celebrities, and social media images got roped in along the way. Overall, I think comparing yourself to others (especially fake images on the internet) is not healthy. If someone is truly that obsessed with looking like a photoshopped image, there is far bigger issue than “unrealistic” goals they need to figure out and work on. (Which could be a much larger debate on the impact and obsession with social media, etc.)
The frustration with repeat posts of the same topics from the same posters was brought up as well. I get deaf ears can be annoying, but if helpful advice has been exhausted then why engage with the horse who’s standing at the watering hole? It’s simply putting energy into someone who doesn’t want the feedback, is seeking attention, or isn’t willing to put in the effort.0 -
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.
But the truth is that some people are unsuccessful exclusively because their goals are not realistic. They literally have not achieved success -- as they have defined it -- but by a more realistic metric, they would be quite successful.
How many threads have I seen over the years where someone is upset because they've "only" lost ten pounds in three months? The truth is that losing ten pounds in three months is fantastic. Does that make me an annoying MFP jerkface when I point that out to someone (rhetorical question, please don't feel you have to answer)? This person literally just needs a more realistic goal in order to realize what a smashing success they are. Instead, they're posting on the verge of throwing in the towel.
How many threads have I seen with literally jawdroppingly incredible before and after photos demonstrating weight loss, but the OP is upset about loose skin or a bit of a belly pooch and feeling like all their efforts were a waste? The truth is that they've accomplished something that eludes so many.
By their own set goals, these people were not successful. Is that really the truth though?
If someone posts in this position and they're ready to quit, I'm not going to agree that they're a failure. I am going to challenge their goal. Maybe that's patronizing, but really . . . our society doesn't help us set realistic goals. I'm just doing what I would want somebody to do for me if I was beating myself up while missing the great things I'd already achieved.15 -
@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.
I think where it gets hard is that for many people having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is demotivating. So if you try to help those people set more realistic goals, you're HELPING them. For others, having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is actually motivating. It gets them going. Telling those people to be "realistic" and set different goals is perceived as telling them to "quit."
The thing is, unless you're close to someone and know how they operate, sometimes it's hard to tell who is who online.
8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
Instagram/social media/celebs vs reality... photoshopped and heavily filtered images are not real. Comparing yourself, goals, and results to something that is not real is only doing a disservice to yourself, hard work, and progress. Put your energy where it matters.
But you're contradicting yourself. Are we allowed to tell a poster who is trying to get a clearly manipulated instagram body that it's unrealistic or not? I thought that was demotivating? Aren't we just supposed to cheerlead and get out of the way?
Or is it better to tell a woman whose goal is to have a tiny waist and big butt like their fave photoshopped insta model that that goal is unrealistic, so she can focus her hard work on realistic goals?
If a poster says they are going to give up because every time they try to lose weight quickly so they can look like a celeb they love for their vacation, is it wrong to tell them that rather than giving up, they should acknowledge their goal is unrealistic and focus on a more realistic goal?
I think what I’m trying to say is getting a bit convoluted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can voice it; after all we are on a public forum. People who post need to understand they open themselves up to the opinions of others for that very reason. I also don’t think everyone should be expected to or needs to be a cheerleader!
My belief is that everyone is responsible to determine for oneself what is “realistic” vs “unrealistic.” I don’t think just simply providing the feedback “yeah, you’re not being successful because you have unrealistic goals.” is beneficial or necessary. I think posing some questions and providing some helpful advice or guidance is the better method. (Others can certainly disagree with that!) Maybe point out that it may take more time and hard work to meet that goal, and they may feel better by hitting some smaller milestones.
If a poster says they are going to quit because they don’t look like celeb X heading into vacation, that’s a mental roadblock they have to overcome. (My other point that so much of the journey is mental, opposed to being strictly physical). If a poster is ready to quit, I don’t see how telling them they have unrealistic goals is going to keep them in it. If it’s “unrealistic” why even bother? However, that being said, each person has to take personal stock and ownership of their process. That’s why I choose to not compare myself to others, determine for myself what is “realistic,” and not take the opinions of others too seriously. Take what's helpful; leave the rest.
But the truth is that some people are unsuccessful exclusively because their goals are not realistic. They literally have not achieved success -- as they have defined it -- but by a more realistic metric, they would be quite successful.
How many threads have I seen over the years where someone is upset because they've "only" lost ten pounds in three months? The truth is that losing ten pounds in three months is fantastic. Does that make me an annoying MFP jerkface when I point that out to someone (rhetorical question, please don't feel you have to answer)? This person literally just needs a more realistic goal in order to realize what a smashing success they are. Instead, they're posting on the verge of throwing in the towel.
How many threads have I seen with literally jawdroppingly incredible before and after photos demonstrating weight loss, but the OP is upset about loose skin or a bit of a belly pooch and feeling like all their efforts were a waste? The truth is that they've accomplished something that eludes so many.
And those posts, in themselves, have the potential to be demotivating to other people (readers) who have just started out, have further to go, or who may not have the same genetic potential or opportunities (for whatever reason) to achieve what that poster has achieved at that point. It's complicated.By their own set goals, these people were not successful. Is that really the truth though?
If someone posts in this position and they're ready to quit, I'm not going to agree that they're a failure. I am going to challenge their goal. Maybe that's patronizing, but really . . . our society doesn't help us set realistic goals. I'm just doing what I would want somebody to do for me if I was beating myself up while missing the great things I'd already achieved.
6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.
I think where it gets hard is that for many people having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is demotivating. So if you try to help those people set more realistic goals, you're HELPING them. For others, having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is actually motivating. It gets them going. Telling those people to be "realistic" and set different goals is perceived as telling them to "quit."
The thing is, unless you're close to someone and know how they operate, sometimes it's hard to tell who is who online.
I think this is an important point. There seems to be an assumption that everyone is motivated in the same way by the same things. I know plenty of perfectionists who never accomplish anything because they'd rather not try than do something half way. I know plenty of people who constantly feel like failures because the fitness industry is setting them up with unrealistic expectations. I've seen countless posters helped by learning how to set and recognize realistic goals, and enjoy small seemingly unremarkable successes.
Anyhoo, we were due for a "You guys give bad advice" thread, so I guess I shouldn't complain
I was helped enormously here by learning from the veterans how weight loss and recomp work and what's realistic to see when, so I'll keep paying that forward! 11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »@qhob_89 The thing is, I don't ever see anyone here just tell someone their goal is unrealistic. I always see caring, encouraging, instructive posts that try to show them how much they can accomplish if they focus on the right things. That's really my point - I think the OP has oversimplified the situation that bothered him, and it's gotten extrapolated into slamming things that don't actually happen here. And if there is occasionally a blunt discouraging post, it is typically overwhelmed by great advice. So I'm curious if anyone so passionate about not discouraging posters is actually seeing lots of these bitter pathetic posts discouraging newbies from their dreams right now? Because I can't find them. There might be an odd post every once and awhile that hits at an off time and after one bad reply gets buried behind newer posts, but I just don't see this regularly here.
I think where it gets hard is that for many people having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is demotivating. So if you try to help those people set more realistic goals, you're HELPING them. For others, having big, lofty goals that require extraordinary effort is actually motivating. It gets them going. Telling those people to be "realistic" and set different goals is perceived as telling them to "quit."
The thing is, unless you're close to someone and know how they operate, sometimes it's hard to tell who is who online.
I think this is an important point. There seems to be an assumption that everyone is motivated in the same way by the same things. I know plenty of perfectionists who never accomplish anything because they'd rather not try than do something half way. I know plenty of people who constantly feel like failures because the fitness industry is setting them up with unrealistic expectations. I've seen countless posters helped by learning how to set and recognize realistic goals, and enjoy small seemingly unremarkable successes.
Anyhoo, we were due for a "You guys give bad advice" thread, so I guess I shouldn't complain I was helped enormously here by learning from the veterans how weight loss and recomp work and what's realistic to see when, so I'll keep paying that forward!
I agree with you--a "mean people" thread. What bugs me is the vague description of "people" demoralizing posters and their goals. I've seen just the opposite, but nobody talks about that. I don't see anyone that wants a poster to fail. If you don't like the advice given, speak up and help out.4
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions