Coronavirus prep
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »So Marion county (county just south of where I live and the county that has Indianapolis) has decided to put in tighter restrictions even if the governor won't do it for the state. They are setting a lower number for gatherings then the state says they have to, reducing occupancy limits for restaurants and other indoor venues, and all schools will be going back to virtual until at least the middle of January. There are others, but those are the ones that will have the biggest impact I think.
I mean... I am glad one area is taking things more seriously but it's still not enough. Too much will still be open. Heck, churches can still operate at 75% capacity. Guess people think you can't get it at church or some BS like that.
16 US Governors have openly stated that if a mask mandate is national, they will balk at it and tell their citizens they can do whatever they want. And it's blowing up in those states. I'm sure my governor is one of them.
This is why, some days, I can't help but be pessimistic. It is a fend for yourself free-for-all that didn't need to happen.
When my county mayor initially issued a mask mandate, the county sherriff issued a statement saying he will not enforce it. Almost nobody follows the mask mandate here... and I am not surprised.
The Governor here (Minnesota) made some new mandates that go into effect here today. As with many states, it’s running rampant here now. Some of the mandates are clearly unenforceable. Limiting the number of families in private homes for Thanksgiving. He’s hoping people’s common sense, which seems non existent in many people, will prevail, and they’ll do the right thing. Seems kind of hopeless and gets more concerning by the day.9 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »North Dakota's governor announced the state will allow healthcare workers who have tested positive for Covid-19 to continue working in coronavirus units, officials announced this week.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-dakota-lets-healthcare-workers-covid-stay-job-record-surge-n1247487
Was very surprised to see this.
It will be interesting to see how the general public in North Dakota responds. Do people become reluctant to go to hospitals for treatment when they should, because they think they'll catch covid there? Do they use this as an example to justify not quarantining themselves when they're covid-positive but asymptomatic?
I'm also wondering if anyone has studied the effects of stress and long hours of physical work on initially asymptomatic cases. Will this put asymptomatic health care workers at greater risk of becoming symptomatic?
If things are so bad in terms of cases outweighing local resources, it seems a little short-sighted for the only government response to be, "let's let covid-positive health care workers continue working." What's next? Let's let folks without medical training start performing surgery?
If people understand it's just COVID nurses, then they might not get fussed about it. But people only read headlines and not articles so it may be an issue. And I know for a fact that if that were here in TN, people would indeed use it as an excuse to justify not quarantining. Many already used attitudes and actions by our national government leaders to justify ignoring the guidelines. That's why we are courting trouble. Flu season hits us here hard in Dec and Jan. The hospital system has already said that they are stretched as is, and despite trying to hire 350 nurses (I'm not sure there are any where near that available with everyone else in the state looking for nurses), if we have a normal flu season, we WILL be in trouble.
One thing they are working on here is taking workers like LPNs and CNAs and training them to assist nurses to take over parts of the workload RNs handle to free them up for the extra patient load. But at some point, if it gets bad enough, people will just get substandard care. The nurses will try. I'm really very discouraged by some of our countrymen and women's behavior.
One of the families in our homeschool co-op insisted on having a class this semester in person. No masks. Outside on a screened in patio but... an 1.5 hour class? Is the ventilation good enough? Her husband runs a computer programming consulting business. They could easily just had a Zoom class.
One of her sons got exposed elsewhere (he's not in the class) and is quarantined, but before that he was in constant contact with everyone in the large household. He is separated from everyone else right now, but no one else in the house got tested. And they aren't quarantining either. He finally got his "negative" test, but it took 4 days to get the result and he still had about 4 days of quarantine left. So they don't really know if he is infected or not for sure, hence the length of quarantines. But they had class yesterday. She "full disclosured" prior with a FB message in the co-op group (this is how I know) and said that anyone who was worried about it could message her and miss class, and she'd give them what they missed. Why not just not have class since they were all exposed? I know the folks and how they are so I know they all went to the class. Ignorance? Or justification for doing what they want, half complying to the guidelines, but not fully-complying out of spite? I know 2 of her college-age kids have a science background. What on earth, guys?
The hospitals and mayors have begged us to stay home when we don't have to go to work, school, or get groceries. A large section of our folk aren't listening. I don't know if I mentioned up-thread but the hospital system told us they have cases directly traced from trick-or-treating and Halloween events already. At least our town finally got that we can't do the Xmas parade. I think what they saw at the Halloween event that thousands of people will show and not distance or mask so there is no safe way to hold the parade.5 -
rheddmobile wrote: »
According to the article the positive people will only be treating Covid patients, so there shouldn’t be any more risk to general patients - the spaces to access Covid patients have already had Covid patients in them. The main problem seems to be mixing positive and not positive healthcare workers, which could be resolved by putting them in separate hospitals (if anyone had a lick of sense, which it seems they don’t).lynn_glenmont wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »North Dakota's governor announced the state will allow healthcare workers who have tested positive for Covid-19 to continue working in coronavirus units, officials announced this week.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-dakota-lets-healthcare-workers-covid-stay-job-record-surge-n1247487
Was very surprised to see this.
It will be interesting to see how the general public in North Dakota responds. Do people become reluctant to go to hospitals for treatment when they should, because they think they'll catch covid there? Do they use this as an example to justify not quarantining themselves when they're covid-positive but asymptomatic?
I'm also wondering if anyone has studied the effects of stress and long hours of physical work on initially asymptomatic cases. Will this put asymptomatic health care workers at greater risk of becoming symptomatic?
If things are so bad in terms of cases outweighing local resources, it seems a little short-sighted for the only government response to be, "let's let covid-positive health care workers continue working." What's next? Let's let folks without medical training start performing surgery?
Isolating patients by condition in different hospitals isn't really a good option in parts of the country where you're lucky if there's a hospital within 100 miles. You'd have people dying because they couldn't get to a hospital that would take them within the time they needed care.
And if you're mixing positive and not positive healthcare workers in the same facility (in break rooms, lockers, hallways, elevators, etc.), you're effectively mixing the patients as well. Each currently "non-positive" healthcare worker becomes a potential covid transmission vector to their patients every time they cross the paths, recently vacated air space, and recently touched surfaces of covid-positive health care workers.They sort of have to do this because the alternative is just letting everyone die without any healthcare whatsoever. They can build emergency beds but they can’t staff them, and calls to other states are facing the problem that multiple states have put out urgent calls for more healthcare workers.
They have to do this because they have consistently refused to make any effort, in terms of closures, capacity limits, mask wearing, or even public messaging, to try to restrict transmission. And even when faced with having to rely on covid-positive health care workers to treat patients -- and has anyone considered the possibility that a covid-positive patient could be infected by a different mutated strain that a health care worker has, or the possibility that exposure to an infected health care worker could increase the patient's viral load? -- they still act as though the only way to address the problem of too many cases is to take previously unacceptable measures to maintain or increase available health care staff, and ignoring the possibility of taking measures to reduce cases.Yeah, good point about the stress on asymptomatic people not being a great idea. It’s also theorized that higher viral load makes for worse cases so being exposed to more Coronavirus when you already have Covid isn’t a great plan.
Yeah, not good for the health care workers, and not good for the patients either, then. Maybe North Dakota's next step could be to look for anyone whose licenses to practice have been taken away from, and put them back in the hospitals. Any "angels of death" available that could help the staffing problem?
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »So Marion county (county just south of where I live and the county that has Indianapolis) has decided to put in tighter restrictions even if the governor won't do it for the state. They are setting a lower number for gatherings then the state says they have to, reducing occupancy limits for restaurants and other indoor venues, and all schools will be going back to virtual until at least the middle of January. There are others, but those are the ones that will have the biggest impact I think.
I mean... I am glad one area is taking things more seriously but it's still not enough. Too much will still be open. Heck, churches can still operate at 75% capacity. Guess people think you can't get it at church or some BS like that.
16 US Governors have openly stated that if a mask mandate is national, they will balk at it and tell their citizens they can do whatever they want. And it's blowing up in those states. I'm sure my governor is one of them.
This is why, some days, I can't help but be pessimistic. It is a fend for yourself free-for-all that didn't need to happen.
When my county mayor initially issued a mask mandate, the county sherriff issued a statement saying he will not enforce it. Almost nobody follows the mask mandate here... and I am not surprised.
Same. Ish.
In our instance, our mayor issued it, but when asked about the mandate by the local news reporter, he said he wasn't going to make anyone enforce it. But now the regions' mayors wrote a letter begging people to mask, distance, stay at home if it is not essential to be out, and not gather. I'm not shocked in the slightest it is still being ignored.
You've probably heard dear Mr. Lee has been told by the White House Task Force more than once we should reinstate business capacity restrictions and the large gathering restrictions. We all notice he hasn't listened to them.
Pandora's box was opened with disdain and downplaying attitudes, and we aren't going to be able to stuff this back in the box now anyway. There's no hope for us here. Maybe in Jan when the hospitals are full, people are sick and/or losing loved ones at a rapid pace...but I don't see many of my folk here changing their attitudes even then. It's very sad to see.9 -
as of this week i'm officially a two-time covid haver. this time it's mild at least, but i have zero appetite and it's making my eating disorder want to act up.
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cosmiqrecovery wrote: »as of this week i'm officially a two-time covid haver. this time it's mild at least, but i have zero appetite and it's making my eating disorder want to act up.
Wow, very interesting. How between the two times was it? Did you get a test both times? Did you test negative after you had it the first time and recovered? Sorry for all the questions I am just very interested in those who have had it twice because we are still unsure of how much immunity having it once provides. You say it was worst the first time right?
I am so sorry you are having to deal with this again though. I hope you feel better ASAP sending hugs.5 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »cosmiqrecovery wrote: »as of this week i'm officially a two-time covid haver. this time it's mild at least, but i have zero appetite and it's making my eating disorder want to act up.
Wow, very interesting. How between the two times was it? Did you get a test both times? Did you test negative after you had it the first time and recovered? Sorry for all the questions I am just very interested in those who have had it twice because we are still unsure of how much immunity having it once provides. You say it was worst the first time right?
I am so sorry you are having to deal with this again though. I hope you feel better ASAP sending hugs.
thank you, and that's okay questions are fine! i half meant my comment as an unspoken AMA anyway.
so my first bout was in march, before testing was widely available. there was a point where i was having horrible chest pains that scared me into going to the er and i tried to get tested there, but the nurse said they had *SIXTEEN TESTS* to last the *MONTH* so unless you were elderly or dying you got nothing but a bill for time wasted. this time my fiance caught it first and we both got tested as soon as more severe symptoms started. their test came back positive, mine came back negative, but 1. it was rapid testing and we were warned in advance that false results are more likely that way, and 2. we live together so they had already been coughing around me, no tmi but we had been intimate, and i just figured it was inevitable that i'd get it. we still went through the motions of quarantining separately in the same house for a few days, just in case i still had some antibodies left in me, but wednesday i started showing the same symptoms in the same order. this time is like nothing compared to march though. right now i'm fatigued, my chest feels a bit heavy, i can't eat worth a damn and i have a slight cough. last time it took me about a day of symptoms to cough myself mute. not hoarse, fully mute. it was like living in one of those nightmares where suddenly you can't scream. i could barely walk the full perimeter of my 500sqf apartment without needing a break. every muscle and bone in my body hurt like i'd been hit by a truck. it was pure distilled hell, and it's why i've taken this stuff so seriously since the beginning, it's really a russian roulette situation. sure you're probably going to get a mild case, but when you don't? goooooood luck14 -
cosmiqrecovery wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »cosmiqrecovery wrote: »as of this week i'm officially a two-time covid haver. this time it's mild at least, but i have zero appetite and it's making my eating disorder want to act up.
Wow, very interesting. How between the two times was it? Did you get a test both times? Did you test negative after you had it the first time and recovered? Sorry for all the questions I am just very interested in those who have had it twice because we are still unsure of how much immunity having it once provides. You say it was worst the first time right?
I am so sorry you are having to deal with this again though. I hope you feel better ASAP sending hugs.
thank you, and that's okay questions are fine! i half meant my comment as an unspoken AMA anyway.
so my first bout was in march, before testing was widely available. there was a point where i was having horrible chest pains that scared me into going to the er and i tried to get tested there, but the nurse said they had *SIXTEEN TESTS* to last the *MONTH* so unless you were elderly or dying you got nothing but a bill for time wasted. this time my fiance caught it first and we both got tested as soon as more severe symptoms started. their test came back positive, mine came back negative, but 1. it was rapid testing and we were warned in advance that false results are more likely that way, and 2. we live together so they had already been coughing around me, no tmi but we had been intimate, and i just figured it was inevitable that i'd get it. we still went through the motions of quarantining separately in the same house for a few days, just in case i still had some antibodies left in me, but wednesday i started showing the same symptoms in the same order. this time is like nothing compared to march though. right now i'm fatigued, my chest feels a bit heavy, i can't eat worth a damn and i have a slight cough. last time it took me about a day of symptoms to cough myself mute. not hoarse, fully mute. it was like living in one of those nightmares where suddenly you can't scream. i could barely walk the full perimeter of my 500sqf apartment without needing a break. every muscle and bone in my body hurt like i'd been hit by a truck. it was pure distilled hell, and it's why i've taken this stuff so seriously since the beginning, it's really a russian roulette situation. sure you're probably going to get a mild case, but when you don't? goooooood luck
@cosmiqrecovery, I'm so sorry you're going through this . . . even once, let alone a second time. It's generous of you to come here and answer questions.
Sending strength-rays in your direction, packaged up with wishes that you and your fiance have a full recovery, and very soon.
Keep us posted, OK? ((Virtual Hugs))8 -
cosmiqrecovery wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »cosmiqrecovery wrote: »as of this week i'm officially a two-time covid haver. this time it's mild at least, but i have zero appetite and it's making my eating disorder want to act up.
Wow, very interesting. How between the two times was it? Did you get a test both times? Did you test negative after you had it the first time and recovered? Sorry for all the questions I am just very interested in those who have had it twice because we are still unsure of how much immunity having it once provides. You say it was worst the first time right?
I am so sorry you are having to deal with this again though. I hope you feel better ASAP sending hugs.
thank you, and that's okay questions are fine! i half meant my comment as an unspoken AMA anyway.
so my first bout was in march, before testing was widely available. there was a point where i was having horrible chest pains that scared me into going to the er and i tried to get tested there, but the nurse said they had *SIXTEEN TESTS* to last the *MONTH* so unless you were elderly or dying you got nothing but a bill for time wasted. this time my fiance caught it first and we both got tested as soon as more severe symptoms started. their test came back positive, mine came back negative, but 1. it was rapid testing and we were warned in advance that false results are more likely that way, and 2. we live together so they had already been coughing around me, no tmi but we had been intimate, and i just figured it was inevitable that i'd get it. we still went through the motions of quarantining separately in the same house for a few days, just in case i still had some antibodies left in me, but wednesday i started showing the same symptoms in the same order. this time is like nothing compared to march though. right now i'm fatigued, my chest feels a bit heavy, i can't eat worth a damn and i have a slight cough. last time it took me about a day of symptoms to cough myself mute. not hoarse, fully mute. it was like living in one of those nightmares where suddenly you can't scream. i could barely walk the full perimeter of my 500sqf apartment without needing a break. every muscle and bone in my body hurt like i'd been hit by a truck. it was pure distilled hell, and it's why i've taken this stuff so seriously since the beginning, it's really a russian roulette situation. sure you're probably going to get a mild case, but when you don't? goooooood luck
@cosmiqrecovery, I'm so sorry you're going through this . . . even once, let alone a second time. It's generous of you to come here and answer questions.
Sending strength-rays in your direction, packaged up with wishes that you and your fiance have a full recovery, and very soon.
Keep us posted, OK? ((Virtual Hugs))
thank you, hugs and well wishes back to you
we're both just glad it's not as serious as last time. we'll get through it fine. and hey if my anecdotal experience can help someone be more serious about covid, i'll post my story everywhere, yknow? like i'm in my mid-twenties, i'm a bodybuilder, a runner, a vegan, all kinds of labels people might see and assume i'm too healthy to get hit with even close to the worst of this disease, but i did anyway. it literally doesn't matter what level of health you're at before, if you pick up a nasty strain it'll knock you on your happy a*s regardless. 12 -
I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.18 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
/takes the deep breath before the plunge into "Disagree" oblivion
Could you have stepped back, held your breath, and then pulled down your mask just long enough so the clerk could see your face? Or, did she want total removal for the entire transaction?
I would bet money that her manager insisted she check faces to confirm IDs. There is a middle ground to be had here, but it would depend on how snotty the clerk was being about it...
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Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
Last spring there was a story about a store in New York city that had a sign up saying that there were no masks allowed in the store. Have no idea how that all shook out over time.
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Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
Last spring there was a story about a store in New York city that had a sign up saying that there were no masks allowed in the store. Have no idea how that all shook out over time.
It wasn't no masks allowed in store... it was pull your mask down and get your face captured by the door with the camera before you can enter. The store owner was robbed 3 times i believe before installing that rule.8 -
Well NYC is on the verge of going all remote for school. Sad times for my kids.6
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Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
It's really hard to tell your age with a mask on and I don't blame the clerk for wanting to see your face. If they don't card/at least visually see that you are of age they can lose their liquor license and I think it's pretty terrible of you to refuse to pull down your mask for 1 second so they can follow the law /shrug. If they refused to allow you to wear the mask at all maybe you'd have a good argument or right to be upset but it's pretty selfish of you to refuse to allow them to verify your age (plus even if you gave the the ID to her...with a mask on how exactly would the clerk verify it was you if they can't see your face?).
If you go to the airport TSA makes you lower your mask so they can verify your face/ID match....completely reasonable and acceptable.1 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
Last spring there was a story about a store in New York city that had a sign up saying that there were no masks allowed in the store. Have no idea how that all shook out over time.
It wasn't no masks allowed in store... it was pull your mask down and get your face captured by the door with the camera before you can enter. The store owner was robbed 3 times i believe before installing that rule.
That seems very reasonable to me. I've often pointed out to my husband lately that it's funny that a year ago we'd never be allowed in places with a mask on but now we have to wear them...and curious if their rates of robbery has gone up due to the fact that people would be really hard to identify and therefore feel like it's worth the risk.2 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
It's really hard to tell your age with a mask on and I don't blame the clerk for wanting to see your face. If they don't card/at least visually see that you are of age they can lose their liquor license and I think it's pretty terrible of you to refuse to pull down your mask for 1 second so they can follow the law /shrug. If they refused to allow you to wear the mask at all maybe you'd have a good argument or right to be upset but it's pretty selfish of you to refuse to allow them to verify your age (plus even if you gave the the ID to her...with a mask on how exactly would the clerk verify it was you if they can't see your face?).
If you go to the airport TSA makes you lower your mask so they can verify your face/ID match....completely reasonable and acceptable.
Ok, less judgement please. No need jump to call me selfish and pretty terrible.
Perhaps you missed the part where I said she wouldn't even look at my ID. Had she said she wanted to see my face in order to check the ID was mine and asked me to pull down my mask for a moment it might have been a different conversation, I can understand a polite request to march the ID against the face of the person presenting it. However, she was extremely rude and insisted she would not look at my ID card at all and I had to fully take the mask off. I don't see that as her just "following the law".
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I don't mean to start a big debate about the merits of masks again, I just found the shop assistant very rude.11
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Redordeadhead wrote: »Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
It's really hard to tell your age with a mask on and I don't blame the clerk for wanting to see your face. If they don't card/at least visually see that you are of age they can lose their liquor license and I think it's pretty terrible of you to refuse to pull down your mask for 1 second so they can follow the law /shrug. If they refused to allow you to wear the mask at all maybe you'd have a good argument or right to be upset but it's pretty selfish of you to refuse to allow them to verify your age (plus even if you gave the the ID to her...with a mask on how exactly would the clerk verify it was you if they can't see your face?).
If you go to the airport TSA makes you lower your mask so they can verify your face/ID match....completely reasonable and acceptable.
Ok, less judgement please. No need jump to call me selfish and pretty terrible.
Perhaps you missed the part where I said she wouldn't even look at my ID. Had she said she wanted to see my face in order to check the ID was mine and asked me to pull down my mask for a moment it might have been a different conversation, I can understand a polite request to march the ID against the face of the person presenting it. However, she was extremely rude and insisted she would not look at my ID card at all and I had to fully take the mask off. I don't see that as her just "following the law".
Might have been a bit harsh but let's not pretend this whole thread isn't full of judgement. Obviously I was not there and have no idea how rude the clerk was or if they started off rude or what. But I will say that if masks are going to be with us long term then we all need to be more understanding of the clerks who work in places like that (or airports or whatever) and if they ask us to remove the mask to look at your face briefly (and you can put it right back up) we should immediately comply and just get over it. They aren't paid enough for any of us to refuse or be rude about it /shrug. Maybe you were perfectly nice about it and their attitude was left over from someone else...but you refused to comply with what they wanted you to do to be in their store and you don't get to complain about it if you want to be able to go in there.3 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
It's really hard to tell your age with a mask on and I don't blame the clerk for wanting to see your face. If they don't card/at least visually see that you are of age they can lose their liquor license and I think it's pretty terrible of you to refuse to pull down your mask for 1 second so they can follow the law /shrug. If they refused to allow you to wear the mask at all maybe you'd have a good argument or right to be upset but it's pretty selfish of you to refuse to allow them to verify your age (plus even if you gave the the ID to her...with a mask on how exactly would the clerk verify it was you if they can't see your face?).
If you go to the airport TSA makes you lower your mask so they can verify your face/ID match....completely reasonable and acceptable.
Ok, less judgement please. No need jump to call me selfish and pretty terrible.
Perhaps you missed the part where I said she wouldn't even look at my ID. Had she said she wanted to see my face in order to check the ID was mine and asked me to pull down my mask for a moment it might have been a different conversation, I can understand a polite request to march the ID against the face of the person presenting it. However, she was extremely rude and insisted she would not look at my ID card at all and I had to fully take the mask off. I don't see that as her just "following the law".
Might have been a bit harsh but let's not pretend this whole thread isn't full of judgement. Obviously I was not there and have no idea how rude the clerk was or if they started off rude or what. But I will say that if masks are going to be with us long term then we all need to be more understanding of the clerks who work in places like that (or airports or whatever) and if they ask us to remove the mask to look at your face briefly (and you can put it right back up) we should immediately comply and just get over it. They aren't paid enough for any of us to refuse or be rude about it /shrug. Maybe you were perfectly nice about it and their attitude was left over from someone else...but you refused to comply with what they wanted you to do to be in their store and you don't get to complain about it if you want to be able to go in there.
Yeah, this thread is full of judgement for people who refuse to take this health crisis seriously and are endangering others and prolonging our misery.
18 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »I don't mean to start a big debate about the merits of masks again, I just found the shop assistant very rude.
Not to worry, there is no debate about mask merits
Hey folks - doing a quick clean up of this discussion.
We really hope our US members are following public health guidelines and wearing a mask when out in public.
Whether or not we should be wearing masks in public settings is not up for debate in our community during this global pandemic. If you are choosing not to wear a mask in a recommended situation you may not promote it here.9 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
According to the article the positive people will only be treating Covid patients, so there shouldn’t be any more risk to general patients - the spaces to access Covid patients have already had Covid patients in them. The main problem seems to be mixing positive and not positive healthcare workers, which could be resolved by putting them in separate hospitals (if anyone had a lick of sense, which it seems they don’t).lynn_glenmont wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »North Dakota's governor announced the state will allow healthcare workers who have tested positive for Covid-19 to continue working in coronavirus units, officials announced this week.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-dakota-lets-healthcare-workers-covid-stay-job-record-surge-n1247487
Was very surprised to see this.
It will be interesting to see how the general public in North Dakota responds. Do people become reluctant to go to hospitals for treatment when they should, because they think they'll catch covid there? Do they use this as an example to justify not quarantining themselves when they're covid-positive but asymptomatic?
I'm also wondering if anyone has studied the effects of stress and long hours of physical work on initially asymptomatic cases. Will this put asymptomatic health care workers at greater risk of becoming symptomatic?
If things are so bad in terms of cases outweighing local resources, it seems a little short-sighted for the only government response to be, "let's let covid-positive health care workers continue working." What's next? Let's let folks without medical training start performing surgery?
Isolating patients by condition in different hospitals isn't really a good option in parts of the country where you're lucky if there's a hospital within 100 miles. You'd have people dying because they couldn't get to a hospital that would take them within the time they needed care.
Sorry if it's bad form to quote my own post, but there was just a story on NBC News apropos of this point about a man who needed emergency surgery for a brain infection who nearly died because he couldn't get into a local hospital because of covid.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/covid-19-forces-man-to-travel-miles-from-home-for-emergency-surgery-95891013611
4 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
But you weren't even the one making the purchase, right? Was your husband wearing a mask? Did she ask him to remove his? Or was she implying he might be making the purchase on behalf of a minor (you)?
I'm trying to get my mind around this. It sounds ... wacko, to use the technical term.
ETA: Just to be clear, not in any way implying you're not completely within your rights declining to make a purchase under conditions that would expose you to health risks and put you in a position of going against public health recommendations. I would have walked away, too. Of course, I have a strange habit of overbuying alcohol when I really don't drink that much, so there's always plenty at home to "shop"' from.6 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
It's really hard to tell your age with a mask on and I don't blame the clerk for wanting to see your face. If they don't card/at least visually see that you are of age they can lose their liquor license and I think it's pretty terrible of you to refuse to pull down your mask for 1 second so they can follow the law /shrug. If they refused to allow you to wear the mask at all maybe you'd have a good argument or right to be upset but it's pretty selfish of you to refuse to allow them to verify your age (plus even if you gave the the ID to her...with a mask on how exactly would the clerk verify it was you if they can't see your face?).
If you go to the airport TSA makes you lower your mask so they can verify your face/ID match....completely reasonable and acceptable.
Her not pulling down her mask in no way forced them to not follow the law, since they decided to leave without a purchase.8 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
It's really hard to tell your age with a mask on and I don't blame the clerk for wanting to see your face. If they don't card/at least visually see that you are of age they can lose their liquor license and I think it's pretty terrible of you to refuse to pull down your mask for 1 second so they can follow the law /shrug. If they refused to allow you to wear the mask at all maybe you'd have a good argument or right to be upset but it's pretty selfish of you to refuse to allow them to verify your age (plus even if you gave the the ID to her...with a mask on how exactly would the clerk verify it was you if they can't see your face?).
If you go to the airport TSA makes you lower your mask so they can verify your face/ID match....completely reasonable and acceptable.
Ok, less judgement please. No need jump to call me selfish and pretty terrible.
Perhaps you missed the part where I said she wouldn't even look at my ID. Had she said she wanted to see my face in order to check the ID was mine and asked me to pull down my mask for a moment it might have been a different conversation, I can understand a polite request to march the ID against the face of the person presenting it. However, she was extremely rude and insisted she would not look at my ID card at all and I had to fully take the mask off. I don't see that as her just "following the law".
So she was insisting you remove your mask and then get within arm's length of her to hand her the ID? I would have had to leave to be sure I wouldn't give into the temptation to comply with the mask-removal request and then cough as hard as I could when I handed her the ID.7 -
I no longer have to worry about getting carded and seeing my face to verify ID my age. Since COVID, I decided to let my silver/grey come in and now have granny hair. :P14
-
Redordeadhead wrote: »Redordeadhead wrote: »I had an interesting experience today. I was denied the possibility to make a purchase in a shop because I refused to take off my mask.
I entered a shop to join my husband, who was in the process of purchasing a bottle of whisky. We are both 15 years over the legal drinking age. In this country, the use of masks in public spaces is strongly recommended by the government and a shop can refuse entry to you if you do not wear one.
Well, in my case, the assistant rudely demanded that I remove my mask. When I said I would not, and pointed out the existence of a pandemic, she refused to continue the sale. I offered to her my ID, which clearly shows I'm over 30, but she would not even look at it and said I do not want to see your ID, you need to remove your mask. Needless to say, we left without buying anything.
It's really hard to tell your age with a mask on and I don't blame the clerk for wanting to see your face. If they don't card/at least visually see that you are of age they can lose their liquor license and I think it's pretty terrible of you to refuse to pull down your mask for 1 second so they can follow the law /shrug. If they refused to allow you to wear the mask at all maybe you'd have a good argument or right to be upset but it's pretty selfish of you to refuse to allow them to verify your age (plus even if you gave the the ID to her...with a mask on how exactly would the clerk verify it was you if they can't see your face?).
If you go to the airport TSA makes you lower your mask so they can verify your face/ID match....completely reasonable and acceptable.
Ok, less judgement please. No need jump to call me selfish and pretty terrible.
Perhaps you missed the part where I said she wouldn't even look at my ID. Had she said she wanted to see my face in order to check the ID was mine and asked me to pull down my mask for a moment it might have been a different conversation, I can understand a polite request to march the ID against the face of the person presenting it. However, she was extremely rude and insisted she would not look at my ID card at all and I had to fully take the mask off. I don't see that as her just "following the law".
Might have been a bit harsh but let's not pretend this whole thread isn't full of judgement. Obviously I was not there and have no idea how rude the clerk was or if they started off rude or what. But I will say that if masks are going to be with us long term then we all need to be more understanding of the clerks who work in places like that (or airports or whatever) and if they ask us to remove the mask to look at your face briefly (and you can put it right back up) we should immediately comply and just get over it. They aren't paid enough for any of us to refuse or be rude about it /shrug. Maybe you were perfectly nice about it and their attitude was left over from someone else...but you refused to comply with what they wanted you to do to be in their store and you don't get to complain about it if you want to be able to go in there.
Or we could just decide that that particular transaction isn't worth the risk, and if stores/services discover too many people feel that way that it impacts their business, they can innovate some method to meet their ID needs while preserving recommended public health conditions. For example: (1) put your ID down on the counter; (2) step behind the plexiglass barrier; (3) clerk picks up ID; (4) customer removes mask; (5) clerk compares ID and customer's face; (6) clerk places ID back on counter; (7) customer replaces mask and retrievers ID. Given that most retail places in my area have already installed some sort of plexiglass barrier at checkout stations, that doesn't seem like much of a lift.
8 -
I no longer have to worry about getting carded and seeing my face to verify ID my age. Since COVID, I decided to let my silver/grey come in and now have granny hair. :P
Yeah, gotta say I'm not in much danger of being carded, even with a mask on.
I suppose there could be minors out there dying their hair gray in the scopes of scoring some alcohol ...?2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I no longer have to worry about getting carded and seeing my face to verify ID my age. Since COVID, I decided to let my silver/grey come in and now have granny hair. :P
Yeah, gotta say I'm not in much danger of being carded, even with a mask on.
I suppose there could be minors out there dying their hair gray in the scopes of scoring some alcohol ...?
Ya, I know things are getting bad when my adult daughter comments on how great my eyes look and it turns out that I put on mascara that day. Something that used to be non-negotiable.
9 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I no longer have to worry about getting carded and seeing my face to verify ID my age. Since COVID, I decided to let my silver/grey come in and now have granny hair. :P
Yeah, gotta say I'm not in much danger of being carded, even with a mask on.
I suppose there could be minors out there dying their hair gray in the scopes of scoring some alcohol ...?
I was with my husband a few years ago (no masks) and I was over 40. I mean it's pretty obvious I'm not under age - silver streaks in my hair, wrinkles and all that. I didn't bring my wallet because he was buying. The girl at the register looked like she should have been carded her own self. She wanted to see both of our IDs. She refused to sell to us when I said I didn't have mine. I couldn't believe it. My husband was pissed. The sign said "if you LOOK like you're under 30, you must show ID." I said, "thanks for the compliment, but I dont really look that young." She wasn't having it. That's only happened once tho. Nobody else even asks my age. Some people are just stickers I guess.2
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