Coronavirus prep

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  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    edited March 2021
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
    Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
    Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.

    Nobody is or was 'shooting' you :*

    Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.

    Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.

    It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.


    Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something

    Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.

    Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
    Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
    Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.

    Nobody is or was 'shooting' you :*

    Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.

    Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.

    It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.


    Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something

    Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.

    Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.

    Honestly I wasn’t there (obviously) for the conversation and I didn’t grill my DIL on her exact wording.
    So since it wouldn’t suggest it to you what would you suggest might be the cause - what is the usual trigger for shingles in young healthy people? I have mostly read that is triggered by reduced immunity, illness and/or stress. Is it more accurate that the cause is just random chance in your experience?
    So correct me if I am wrong but you think it is more likely that this just occurred randomly with no identifiable stressor - than that it is somehow linked to a vaccine that directly affects the immune system? I guess to me with no other risk factor one would logically at least suspect the one risk factor that was recently introduced.


    Yes general triggers of reduced immunity, illness, stress and sometimes randomly with no identifiable trigger

    A ctually , no, it wasn't obvious you weren't there for the conversation, your previous post came across to me that you were relaying first hand what the Dr said

    Given we dont know exactly what was said and it is being relayed to us 3rd hand, and you seem to have made up your mind already, I am leaving it there.

    What I think or even what the individual doctor thinks doesn't matter - what counts is scientific measurable data.

    Apologies - it was my DIL that told me what the doctor said - I don’t attend doctor appointments with my grown children never mind my in-laws!

    One more question if you don’t mind (sorry to be a pain I am super curious about this) - what “scientifically measurable data” would be applicable here? Is there some way to determine the trigger for an individual case like this? Or any case of shingles really whatever the cause.

    Isn’t Bell’s palsy also related to the chicken pox virus reactivating? I’m just reading now that the rate of Bell’s palsy in the phase 3 vaccine trials was 3.5 to 7 times the expected rate.

    Anyway I am probably boring people with this now I am finding it super interesting but I’m sure no one else is. Thanks for the discussion!


    It may surprise you to know that it is not unusual for family members to attend consultations together - not common, but not unusual
    So when you wrote Doctor said xyz, it read to me you heard directly what he said.
    Which, as you since clarified, you in fact did not.

    Scientific data would be objective measurable data - like the incidence of shingles in people x age any given week is y, incidence within a week after x vaccine is that. Is x the same or greater than y.

    In Australia anyway,that would be easy data to obtain - shingles is a notifiable disease, vaccines are all recorded on a national registry. Easy job for data collectors to cross reference the two and see if any correlating increase in numbers.
    That is what counts,not unsubstantiated opinions

    No there is no way to quantify exact trigger, if any,or several, for an individual.

    Bells palsy is though to be related to swelling post viral or bacterial infections, some more commonly than others.
    By no means only or mostly varicella. Many viruses.
    Sometimes also occurs randomly - or without obvious pre infection.

    Thanks for the reply! I guess for the data we will have to wait then to see what happens - we are mostly only vaccinating the elderly - she works in health care (dental) so that’s why she got it early-ish. Maybe when the general population gets it there will be more data available.
    Not that it matters so much anyway to us - she has it now so it is what it is. It’s mostly just an intellectual curiosity at this point.
    I guess you will be busy soon with your own vaccine rollout. Good luck with that!
  • Gisel2015
    Gisel2015 Posts: 4,184 Member
    Considering the new variants roaming around, I (personally) will take these recommendations with a grain of salt. I will have no problem meeting with fully vaccinated people, while keeping still distance (no hugs or kisses unless they are wearing masks). But that is just me; I am too old to take unnecessary chances

    Vaccinated Americans can gather inside without masks or social distancing in certain circumstances, CDC guidelines say

    “You can visit your grandparents if you’ve been vaccinated and they have been, too,” CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said in a White House briefing Monday. “If grandparents have been vaccinated, they can visit their daughter and her family even if they have not been vaccinated, so long as the daughter and her family are not at risk for severe disease.”

    Vaccinated individuals should still wear a mask and social distance in public settings and avoid medium- to large-sized gatherings. The agency has yet to release updated guidelines on travel for those who have been vaccinated. Current CDC guidelines recommend delaying travel but provide a list of public health measures in the case that someone must travel.


    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/08/covid-vaccine-cdc-releases-new-guidelines-vaccinated-americans/6917770002/
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I listened to a TWIV quick clinical update with some interesting stuff:

    They did a quick update on the J&J vaccine now that more data has been released. They said after 28 days, J&J had a 100% effective rate as far as preventing disease requiring serious medical intervention or hospitalization. They also PCR tested everyone between 29 and 71 days after the one shot for viral particles that would show some level of asymptomatic infection leading to spread and found the vaccine was 74% effective overall. Especially considering this trial was run after some of the more worrisome variants are out there, this is another hint that the vaccines will at least greatly reduce transmission, which is kind of awesome.

    Still early, but no serious side effects have been reported yet, just soar arm and fatigue. They noted that J&J uses the same vaccine platform for their ebola vaccine, which has been given to over 200,000 people over the last decade, so there is every reason to be confident in the safety.

    They also mentioned that many studies are now showing no benefit to treatment with convalescent plasma, it just doesn't seem to help at all.

    The standard at this point is monoclonal antibodies early in disease, and steroids in those who are very ill. If you test positive and have ANY increased risk factors, you should advocate for yourself and make sure you get the monoclonal antibody serum if at all positive.

    Speaking of plasma, a branch of this place just opened near me:

    https://octapharmaplasma.com/about

    I thought they were going to GIVE treatments, and expected them to close again quickly. But it looks like they are collecting blood, which seems like an odd business model.
  • Noreenmarie1234
    Noreenmarie1234 Posts: 7,492 Member
    I will definitely be interested in getting this test if it is ever readily accessible....
    "The first-of-its-kind test for detecting whether someone was infected withCOVID-19 in the past -- using the body's T-cells -- was granted emergency authorization by the Food and Drug Administration late Friday night."

    For those who were never confirmed cases or who were tested or antibodies past the three month mark.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fda-authorizes-cell-test-game-changer-covid-19/story?id=76318248&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I listened to a TWIV quick clinical update with some interesting stuff:

    They did a quick update on the J&J vaccine now that more data has been released. They said after 28 days, J&J had a 100% effective rate as far as preventing disease requiring serious medical intervention or hospitalization. They also PCR tested everyone between 29 and 71 days after the one shot for viral particles that would show some level of asymptomatic infection leading to spread and found the vaccine was 74% effective overall. Especially considering this trial was run after some of the more worrisome variants are out there, this is another hint that the vaccines will at least greatly reduce transmission, which is kind of awesome.

    Still early, but no serious side effects have been reported yet, just soar arm and fatigue. They noted that J&J uses the same vaccine platform for their ebola vaccine, which has been given to over 200,000 people over the last decade, so there is every reason to be confident in the safety.

    They also mentioned that many studies are now showing no benefit to treatment with convalescent plasma, it just doesn't seem to help at all.

    The standard at this point is monoclonal antibodies early in disease, and steroids in those who are very ill. If you test positive and have ANY increased risk factors, you should advocate for yourself and make sure you get the monoclonal antibody serum if at all positive.

    Speaking of plasma, a branch of this place just opened near me:

    https://octapharmaplasma.com/about

    I thought they were going to GIVE treatments, and expected them to close again quickly. But it looks like they are collecting blood, which seems like an odd business model.

    I knew some college students who basically used getting paid for their plasma as a side gig.

    I don't remember the spiel I got the first few times I gave blood, but I think plasma is used in several traumatic injury type treatments. When I was donating platelets, they also used to take a bag of plasma too.
    It was illegal to get paid for blood/blood component donations in NY, but now that I'm in VA I noticed there are a couple of collection businesses around here.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,118 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I listened to a TWIV quick clinical update with some interesting stuff:

    They did a quick update on the J&J vaccine now that more data has been released. They said after 28 days, J&J had a 100% effective rate as far as preventing disease requiring serious medical intervention or hospitalization. They also PCR tested everyone between 29 and 71 days after the one shot for viral particles that would show some level of asymptomatic infection leading to spread and found the vaccine was 74% effective overall. Especially considering this trial was run after some of the more worrisome variants are out there, this is another hint that the vaccines will at least greatly reduce transmission, which is kind of awesome.

    Still early, but no serious side effects have been reported yet, just soar arm and fatigue. They noted that J&J uses the same vaccine platform for their ebola vaccine, which has been given to over 200,000 people over the last decade, so there is every reason to be confident in the safety.

    They also mentioned that many studies are now showing no benefit to treatment with convalescent plasma, it just doesn't seem to help at all.

    The standard at this point is monoclonal antibodies early in disease, and steroids in those who are very ill. If you test positive and have ANY increased risk factors, you should advocate for yourself and make sure you get the monoclonal antibody serum if at all positive.

    Speaking of plasma, a branch of this place just opened near me:

    https://octapharmaplasma.com/about

    I thought they were going to GIVE treatments, and expected them to close again quickly. But it looks like they are collecting blood, which seems like an odd business model.

    I knew some college students who basically used getting paid for their plasma as a side gig.

    I don't remember the spiel I got the first few times I gave blood, but I think plasma is used in several traumatic injury type treatments. When I was donating platelets, they also used to take a bag of plasma too.
    It was illegal to get paid for blood/blood component donations in NY, but now that I'm in VA I noticed there are a couple of collection businesses around here.

    Yeah, I had friends in college even back in the 1970s that gave plasma for cash, at businesses like that. Don't know about now, but they used to be more common in college towns and in very low income areas or areas with a lot of unemployment/homelessness.
  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,371 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    ElioraFR wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
    Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
    Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.

    Nobody is or was 'shooting' you :*

    Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.

    Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.

    It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.


    Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something

    Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.

    Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
    Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
    Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.

    Nobody is or was 'shooting' you :*

    Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.

    Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.

    It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.


    Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something

    Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.

    Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.

    Honestly I wasn’t there (obviously) for the conversation and I didn’t grill my DIL on her exact wording.
    So since it wouldn’t suggest it to you what would you suggest might be the cause - what is the usual trigger for shingles in young healthy people? I have mostly read that is triggered by reduced immunity, illness and/or stress. Is it more accurate that the cause is just random chance in your experience?
    So correct me if I am wrong but you think it is more likely that this just occurred randomly with no identifiable stressor - than that it is somehow linked to a vaccine that directly affects the immune system? I guess to me with no other risk factor one would logically at least suspect the one risk factor that was recently introduced.

    Experience only for what it’s worth. I had shingles twice, once in my 20’s and in my mid 40’s. I’m 71 now. Most of my major stresses have been in my 50’s and 60’s. I kind of feel like stress is something of a factor in shingles, just not the whole cause. I haven’t decided whether to get a vaccination for shingles. Still waiting to see when I can get the Covid-19 one.

    I can say it is very very painful. Thank goodness it only lasted a few days.

    After this I am definitely going to get the shingles vaccine once I am done with the Covid series. I almost got it a couple of years ago when 2 people out of my 7 person office got shingles within a couple weeks of each other. I had the prescription to fill but it was I think $400, so I cheaped out and decided to wait until I am 60 and it is covered under our gov't plan. Think I'll just suck it up and pay for rather than wait another 5 years. :smiley:

    I had heard that there was a greater likelihood of developing shingles if one had chicken pox as an adult (although apparently this is not substantiated) so I was begging for that vaccine as soon as I turned 50. Fortunately my drug benefit plan covered it... but not the $20 fee for the pharmacist to inject it.
  • Theo166
    Theo166 Posts: 2,564 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I listened to a TWIV quick clinical update with some interesting stuff:

    They did a quick update on the J&J vaccine now that more data has been released. They said after 28 days, J&J had a 100% effective rate as far as preventing disease requiring serious medical intervention or hospitalization. They also PCR tested everyone between 29 and 71 days after the one shot for viral particles that would show some level of asymptomatic infection leading to spread and found the vaccine was 74% effective overall. Especially considering this trial was run after some of the more worrisome variants are out there, this is another hint that the vaccines will at least greatly reduce transmission, which is kind of awesome.

    Still early, but no serious side effects have been reported yet, just soar arm and fatigue. They noted that J&J uses the same vaccine platform for their ebola vaccine, which has been given to over 200,000 people over the last decade, so there is every reason to be confident in the safety.

    They also mentioned that many studies are now showing no benefit to treatment with convalescent plasma, it just doesn't seem to help at all.

    The standard at this point is monoclonal antibodies early in disease, and steroids in those who are very ill. If you test positive and have ANY increased risk factors, you should advocate for yourself and make sure you get the monoclonal antibody serum if at all positive.

    Speaking of plasma, a branch of this place just opened near me:

    https://octapharmaplasma.com/about

    I thought they were going to GIVE treatments, and expected them to close again quickly. But it looks like they are collecting blood, which seems like an odd business model.

    Donated blood and plasma is processed and sold for a very nice return. I've read a pint of blood can go for $180 to $300, depending on demand. A liter of plasma that costs a company about $150 to collect/process can sell for around $500—a substantial markup in any industry..

    VICE: America Is Selling Blood for Big Profits to the Rest of the World
  • lkpducky
    lkpducky Posts: 17,580 Member
    I will definitely be interested in getting this test if it is ever readily accessible....
    "The first-of-its-kind test for detecting whether someone was infected withCOVID-19 in the past -- using the body's T-cells -- was granted emergency authorization by the Food and Drug Administration late Friday night."

    For those who were never confirmed cases or who were tested or antibodies past the three month mark.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fda-authorizes-cell-test-game-changer-covid-19/story?id=76318248&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm
    Would just anyone who suspects they had COVID-19 be able to get it or would you have to be a long hauler (still feeling sick)? My husband strongly suspects that he had it in January 2020 but didn’t qualify for testing at the time.

  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    Research in UK is beginning to suggest having the vaccine can help with "long covid" symptoms.