Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
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paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
The reason Pfizer is only being given through hospital hubs to phase1a criteria people is because of the storage requirements of minus 70 degrees
So, No, I don't think it will become available for more people - since the vast majority of the population will be vaccinated at Dr's surgeries or pharmacies - therefore with AZ which has normal vaccine storage requirements - ie such places with pre existing storage and management of other vaccines can run it
It is possible other brands will be available down the track, who knows - but there is no suggestion of that now and as the situation stands and is likely to stand for the foreseeable future, people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand.
They have actually updated the Pfizer storage recommendations quite a while ago. It can be stored at normal freezer temperatures for up to 2 weeks. I had mine administered at a mass clinic (in a hockey rink). 🤷♀️
I wouldn’t and didn’t suggest that people have the option of choosing another brand *right now* obviously if one isn’t available - they have the option of refusing what they are offered and WAITING for another option to potentially become available at a later date.
I can’t imagine our government telling someone if they refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever get another one - but if you say that is what will happen there I’ll have to take your word for it. Glad I don’t live there.
Most vaccine providers - the Dr's surgery where I work for example - do not have medical specific freezers, normal freezer temp or not.
Hospitals would - because they would use freezers used for blood products like frozen plasma.
We do have vaccine specific fridges and tight cold chain protocol already - for all the other vaccines we already give. and AZ just gets included in that existing system.
There is absolutely no suggestion in Australia that Pfizer will be given outside of hospital hubs.
Sure, people could wait and see if another brand becomes available to them down the track - and perhaps it will, who knows.
But that is not the situation now nor likely to be in forseeable future - so hopefully most people will not take that stance,or vaccinating the population will be very slow.
(they certainly are not atm, we have waiting lists of people and vaccine appt's filling as fast as we get vaccine supply.)
No I did not say the govt is telling anyone if the refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever have another one (if they change their mind or another one later becomes available) - how on earth did you get that from what I posted???
Well you said “people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand” so not sure what else I was supposed to infer from that?
And yeah when Pfizer first came here they only did it in hospitals too, but people lost their *kitten* about how inefficient that was (for example low risk hospital clerical staff getting it before long term care residents because of “transport and storage” issues) so they quickly got their act together and figured out how to get it out in the community. It obviously can be done my Mom had Pfizer at her retirement home, and I had mine at a mass clinic that was set up in a hockey rink/community centre.
People do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand means exactly that - their only option is AZ (unless they are in criteria 1a - Pfizer through hospital hubs)
Not sure how on earth the leap went from that to 'the government telling someone if they refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever get another one' (if they change their mind or another one becomes available) - which isnt what I said at all so I'm not sure how you inferred that.
At any rate you inferred wrongly - it isnt what I said and it isnt the case.
I dont doubt that Pfizer could be given in the community or that it is done in some other places - indeed the hospital hub staff here travel to nursing homes to do so - but it isnt anywhere near as efficient as using existing staff and existng infrastructure such as already exists in surgeries and pharmacies - hence it won't be done here and isn't what is going to happen here for the general population.
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Paperpudding didn't say we won't get to have something else down the line if we don't get AZ now. True.1
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Paperpudding didn't say we won't get to have something else down the line if we don't get AZ now. True.
Well they literally told me multiple times in the conversation that the majority of the population does not have the option to EITHER wait OR choose another brand. Now they are saying that yes they can and they never said that - like it's right there in writing so idk how to even respond to that.
Honestly it doesn't matter to me enough to keep discussing it - hopefully everyone gets a good vaccine no matter where they live and the issues with AZ are worked out.2 -
Italy here. My husband (67) and I (66) reserved our vaccine slots yesterday. Here we have Pfizer, Moderna, AZ, and Johnson & Johnson (arriving in April). Johnson & Johnson will be administered in pharmacies. Here the vaccine you get depends on where you reserve a slot. We wanted Pfizer since my BIL is a cardiologist and that's what he said we should get. The Pfizer hub is a 15 min walk from us.
My husband reserved 1st and got a slot the next day (must have been a cancellation), I have my slot at the end of May. At the time of reservation, the followup dose is already reserved for 2 weeks after with the date and time given. I was very disappointed that mine will be so far out--almost 2 months, but I'm glad my husband will get coverage sooner.17 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
How do your lockdowns work - like does everything close? The lockdowns are no longer working here because most of our spread is now coming in "essential workplaces" like factories, warehouses, food processing plants. Like you are getting whole shifts of people infected and then taking it home to their families. And how does a 3 day lockdown stop the spread of something with a 14 day incubation period? I am confused about that. Like it's just not working here we have been in various stages of lockdown since December.
Now that the long term care homes are protected we really need to shift our vaccine strategy away from age groups categories and use exposure risk factors instead if we want to get this under control here.1 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
I just had a quite heated discussion with a friend who is absolutely freaked out about covid and who has family in Australia. She felt strongly that the Australian strategy is much better than what we have here, but refused to understand the strategy would be impossible to legally implement here due to differences in judicial and executive organization (we spent a good hour trying to explain this to her, two lawyers and one Master of Political Sciences). Not saying one type of organizing government is better than the other (and I’m not here for any debate), but I do agree with her that having the ability to keep covid numbers as low as in Australia by acting fast would be great.
For healthcare we have a dual system, with excellent(ish) free public healthcare and parallel private healthcare that’s commonly offered as an employment perk (it’s mandatory, to an extent). In the last year, public and private sector have really pulled together to provide most efficient solutions, and I know last spring some private clinics in the countryside were taken over by the state because the resources were needed and we were under state of emergency that allowed it. Last spring public healthcare was still an absolute mess so I relied on company healthcare for testing, but now I’ve been tested through the public system in privately run sites and everything works smoothly.
I haven’t really used public healthcare much since I was done with my public-healthcare braces at 15 (had great employment healthcare and university students’ healthcare here is organized through a hybrid foundation system), but now I’m firmly within the public healthcare system as all maternity healthcare is organized publicly, so I’ve visited the local public healthcare center a couple of times. They have a big vaccination site there, but no testing and no treatment of covid patients. Testing is done at the drive-in and walk-in sites nearby, and I think covid treatment is centralized to specific hospitals and clinics. So far no stadiums etc. that I’ve heard of. The closest to a non-medical site I’ve heard of is a public service hub that operates within a nearby mall, they have a healthcare clinic but I’ve understood the vaccination site is spread to some sort of library event space adjacent to the healthcare clinic.
We’re still vaccinating risk groups and age groups that are retired, but I know the state has agreed with private operators that once we start vaccinating largely employed age groups, the state will distribute vaccines to private clinics and cover the costs of vaccinating employed people through employment healthcare. It makes sense since private operators have large facilities and plenty of staff, so vaccines can be distributed more efficiently. These private operators have experience in mass vaccinations too, since they run seasonal flu shots every year and commonly offer companies the option of nurses traveling to workplaces to vaccinate everyone who wants it. Not likely to happen for remote work folks, but would probably make things very efficient for factories and other workplaces that run fully on-site. Don’t know if that’s possible for covid vaccines with freezer temperatures, though.0 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
How do your lockdowns work - like does everything close? The lockdowns are no longer working here because most of our spread is now coming in "essential workplaces" like factories, warehouses, food processing plants. Like you are getting whole shifts of people infected and then taking it home to their families. And how does a 3 day lockdown stop the spread of something with a 14 day incubation period? I am confused about that. Like it's just not working here we have been in various stages of lockdown since December.
Now that the long term care homes are protected we really need to shift our vaccine strategy away from age groups categories and use exposure risk factors instead if we want to get this under control here.
I'm no expert. I just do what I'm told and our ways of dealing with it are working very well so I'll keep doing what we are asked for the short time we may need a mask and I always trying to social distance and wash/use sanitiser. We haven't even had Covid here other than when one politician flew in and it was lucky she didn't spread it. Sh went straight to hospital when she had symptoms and that was a long time back , close to a year I guess since it was when this all started.
In the big cities is where there is a small amount of Covid now and then but they do get it under control fast. I think it's mainly doing well because it's not out of control which large numbers of people affected and the contact tracers find everyone quickly so they are quarantined right away.5 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
How do your lockdowns work - like does everything close? The lockdowns are no longer working here because most of our spread is now coming in "essential workplaces" like factories, warehouses, food processing plants. Like you are getting whole shifts of people infected and then taking it home to their families. And how does a 3 day lockdown stop the spread of something with a 14 day incubation period? I am confused about that. Like it's just not working here we have been in various stages of lockdown since December.
Now that the long term care homes are protected we really need to shift our vaccine strategy away from age groups categories and use exposure risk factors instead if we want to get this under control here.
The short lockdowns are implemented to give time for contact tracing to occur. The goal is only to buy some time without community spread so that everyone who is a possible contact will be put into home quarantine. If you are a contact, then you get the full 14 days. Locations of spread are publicised, and people are pretty compliant, so they have been effective. When we had more widespread transmission, the lockdown was much stronger, and lasted longer until cases were low enough to have good contact tracing again.15 -
Paperpudding didn't say we won't get to have something else down the line if we don't get AZ now. True.
Well they literally told me multiple times in the conversation that the majority of the population does not have the option to EITHER wait OR choose another brand. Now they are saying that yes they can and they never said that - like it's right there in writing so idk how to even respond to that.
Honestly it doesn't matter to me enough to keep discussing it - hopefully everyone gets a good vaccine no matter where they live and the issues with AZ are worked out.
What I said was the majority of the population does not have any option about which brand they will get - atm it is Pfizer for criteria 1a people via hospital hubs and AZ for rest of population via approved Drs surgeries or pharmacies
There are no plans to change that.
So, correct, you do not atm have the option to choose another brand - nor is that likely to change.
I did not say people cannot wait (they might be waiting forever, who knows) to get another brand when/if it is ever available or that if they refuse AZ now they cannot change their mind and have it or any other hypthotical brands available in hypothetical future.
Not sure what else you saw right there in writing, you seem to be seeing things I did not say - this is same thing I have said all along and is the situation here
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Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
In the US the large venues are used to get the most shots in arms as soon as possible. In our smaller city there is an arena being used (large enough to hold 10,000 people. There is plenty of parking. You check in at socially distanced stations in the large, open, lobby area then proceed to the arena floor (size of a hockey rink) where you get directed to one of 30 tables where you get your shot (they are processing 500+ people an hour). After your shot there is another area where you are asked to wait for 15 minutes to make sure no reaction. There are medical professionals available in case there are any issues.
This type of process is much more efficient both in terms of getting the shot to people and doing it in socially distancing manner than having people go to a hospital or medical office and weave though narrow halls around the regular patients of the facility. Now if someone has allergies they can go to their doctor and get a shot if they're worried about it, but the mass vaccination sites are much more efficient for most people.
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Mondowefte wrote: »Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
How do your lockdowns work - like does everything close? The lockdowns are no longer working here because most of our spread is now coming in "essential workplaces" like factories, warehouses, food processing plants. Like you are getting whole shifts of people infected and then taking it home to their families. And how does a 3 day lockdown stop the spread of something with a 14 day incubation period? I am confused about that. Like it's just not working here we have been in various stages of lockdown since December.
Now that the long term care homes are protected we really need to shift our vaccine strategy away from age groups categories and use exposure risk factors instead if we want to get this under control here.
The short lockdowns are implemented to give time for contact tracing to occur. The goal is only to buy some time without community spread so that everyone who is a possible contact will be put into home quarantine. If you are a contact, then you get the full 14 days. Locations of spread are publicised, and people are pretty compliant, so they have been effective. When we had more widespread transmission, the lockdown was much stronger, and lasted longer until cases were low enough to have good contact tracing again.
That makes sense - we keep getting to the point where contact tracing is impossible. I remember at the beginning they said that contact tracing was the key to stopping the spread, but once it gets to a certain point it just becomes out of control, and that keeps happening here. We lockdown the cases go down, we open up and they go up again. Now the variants are spreading and it is out of control once again.
Last summer we were down to around 50 cases as day I think, I'm not sure why we couldn't have kept the numbers low where as you can. Well it's because our politicians are useless and always one step behind I guess. They are more afraid of offending people than actually stopping it from coming in, they refuse to close travel down. Now we have the Brazilian variant spreading on the other end of the country from us (BC) so I'm sure that will be here next, and I don't know if the vaccines even work on that strain. We are over 3000 cases a day now in our province.
I think the idea was that once all the elderly people, (who were hit hard in the first wave) are vaccinated cases might go up but hospitalizations and deaths will go down. Now with the new variants spreading like crazy they are telling us that hospitalizations and deaths among younger people are increasing, and our ICU's are still full. I don't even know what to think anymore.3 -
I did my first sort-of post-vax thing, I think coloring slightly outside the lines of the CDC recommendations, even (unlike me).
I was inside someone's house, without a mask, for the first time since the pandemic started involving guidelines & restrictions here, i.e., since March 2020. Some very good out of town friends (married couple) were at their cottage here, and I haven't seen them in person (brief driveway visit) since December 2020. They're both more than 2 weeks past 2nd vaccinations, and have continued being very cautious about masks/isolating. I'm not *quite* 2 weeks past vaccination #2 (it's been about 9 days), and have been quite cautious.
I'd been mulling things over knowing they'd be in town, wanting to see them; even talked it over with a very level headed, smart, retired RN friend. My friends were caring, totally open to fully masked visit, but did want to show me around their condo. (I've been there lots, but may stay there while some work is done at my place, so they wanted to show me some technical stuff about utilities & such.)
I went and picked up take-out for all of us. It was a lovely day, so mostly we ate outside on the deck, but did spend some time inside without masks afterwards. I was worried that I'd feel twitchy, even after having decided it was OK enough, but it was fine.
Really nice, even. I don't feel worried, but am watching to see if it ends up being fine, as I expect.
It doesn't sound like you colored outside the CDC lines, as you were with only one other living group. Unless you count 9 vs 14 days as outside the line. On that point, I'm reading that as more data is collected, the vaccines appear more effective than initially thought after 1st dose AND more likely to prevent asymptomatic spread. That data arrived subsequent to the 2-week guidance. I'm glad you had a good visit and it felt good to you!
I'm wondering how I'll adjust to post pandemic crowds. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable (still don't like outdoor dining where strangers feel too close and talk too loud), and sometimes I feel fine (spent Easter with parents, indoors, without masks for first time in well over a year).
ETA: How are you guys thinking about post-vaccine get togethers with friends? Many of my friends have had both doses and are talking about gathering locally in May and traveling to be together in June. I realize the DCD wants folks to wait until July, but this is what I'm hearing. Curious what others are thinking/planning.4 -
Last summer we were down to around 50 cases as day I think, I'm not sure why we couldn't have kept the numbers low where as you can. Well it's because our politicians are useless and always one step behind I guess. They are more afraid of offending people than actually stopping it from coming in, they refuse to close travel down. Now we have the Brazilian variant spreading on the other end of the country from us (BC) so I'm sure that will be here next, and I don't know if the vaccines even work on that strain. We are over 3000 cases a day now in our province.
I live in Finland so climates are somewhat comparable, and here it was the same thing with summer. According to any research and media reports I’ve read, the summer ”break” from the spread as well as the surge in the fall were a result of several factors: warmer weather makes people spend more time outdoors even when socializing, making it harder for the virus to spread (certainly not impossible), the Finnish lifestyle generally favors retreating to summer cabins and other secluded areas in the summer, schools and group hobbies are on break, people are on vacation from work and spend more time with their families and less time with others. I don’t know how these lifestyle factors compare to Canada, but here those were factors.
On the positive side, I just learned that my mom got her vaccine appointment. She’s in her late 50s but has some risk factors, so she’s now booked.9 -
Just checking in with some not-so-good news about the possible impact of the U.K. variant on children.
https://abc7.com/health/kids-now-playing-huge-role-in-spread-of-covid-19-variant-expert-says/10486843/6 -
I wouldn't be booking anything overseas anywhere for now. There is no guarantee Aussies will be allowed into NZ anytime soon. Only time will tell. Could be a long time yet.
Also I find it crazy sports people are playing still if they aren't 100% sure they don't have Covid. Really. Dumb. Who are the nut jobs in charge that are allowing it to happen without properly testing everyone? Guess money is more important than a couple of weeks off beforehand to make sure everyone is safe. I feel sorry for their families more than anything since they'll be catching it off the players.
Athletes, coaches, etc on sports teams are all tested on a daily basis. Players can also opt out of practicing and playing if they choose.4 -
Last summer we were down to around 50 cases as day I think, I'm not sure why we couldn't have kept the numbers low where as you can. Well it's because our politicians are useless and always one step behind I guess. They are more afraid of offending people than actually stopping it from coming in, they refuse to close travel down. Now we have the Brazilian variant spreading on the other end of the country from us (BC) so I'm sure that will be here next, and I don't know if the vaccines even work on that strain. We are over 3000 cases a day now in our province.
I live in Finland so climates are somewhat comparable, and here it was the same thing with summer. According to any research and media reports I’ve read, the summer ”break” from the spread as well as the surge in the fall were a result of several factors: warmer weather makes people spend more time outdoors even when socializing, making it harder for the virus to spread (certainly not impossible), the Finnish lifestyle generally favors retreating to summer cabins and other secluded areas in the summer, schools and group hobbies are on break, people are on vacation from work and spend more time with their families and less time with others. I don’t know how these lifestyle factors compare to Canada, but here those were factors.
On the positive side, I just learned that my mom got her vaccine appointment. She’s in her late 50s but has some risk factors, so she’s now booked.
It's similar here with more outdoor activities and vacations and such, but there might be more economic disparity here? I'm not sure how it is in Finland.
So yes my family and I spend a lot of time in the summer at our cottage north of the city, and my son and his fiancee who live in the city often came out to our suburban home and stayed here with us during the summer, just to stay away from people (they have a small apartment).
But there might be a bit more population density here in the cities, and there are many folks who don't have the privilege of getting away. There are 6 million people in the metropolitan area where I live, and 15 million in the province.
I know that summer was better and then it got worse again in the fall in most places. But it seems that other jurisdictions that have done better have imposed travel restrictions between areas in the country, and even curfews. Our politicians are very hesitant to impose tighter restrictions, so I think that has also been a factor here.
That's great that your mother is getting her vaccine!
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Last summer we were down to around 50 cases as day I think, I'm not sure why we couldn't have kept the numbers low where as you can. Well it's because our politicians are useless and always one step behind I guess. They are more afraid of offending people than actually stopping it from coming in, they refuse to close travel down. Now we have the Brazilian variant spreading on the other end of the country from us (BC) so I'm sure that will be here next, and I don't know if the vaccines even work on that strain. We are over 3000 cases a day now in our province.
I live in Finland so climates are somewhat comparable, and here it was the same thing with summer. According to any research and media reports I’ve read, the summer ”break” from the spread as well as the surge in the fall were a result of several factors: warmer weather makes people spend more time outdoors even when socializing, making it harder for the virus to spread (certainly not impossible), the Finnish lifestyle generally favors retreating to summer cabins and other secluded areas in the summer, schools and group hobbies are on break, people are on vacation from work and spend more time with their families and less time with others. I don’t know how these lifestyle factors compare to Canada, but here those were factors.
On the positive side, I just learned that my mom got her vaccine appointment. She’s in her late 50s but has some risk factors, so she’s now booked.
It's similar here with more outdoor activities and vacations and such, but there might be more economic disparity here? I'm not sure how it is in Finland.
So yes my family and I spend a lot of time in the summer at our cottage north of the city, and my son and his fiancee who live in the city often came out to our suburban home and stayed here with us during the summer, just to stay away from people (they have a small apartment).
But there might be a bit more population density here in the cities, and there are many folks who don't have the privilege of getting away. There are 6 million people in the metropolitan area where I live, and 15 million in the province.
I know that summer was better and then it got worse again in the fall in most places. But it seems that other jurisdictions that have done better have imposed travel restrictions between areas in the country, and even curfews. Our politicians are very hesitant to impose tighter restrictions, so I think that has also been a factor here.
That's great that your mother is getting her vaccine!
I think economic disparity is definitely a factor, it’s even visible when looking at how infections are spread within Helsinki area. The infections are disproportionately focused on specific areas of the city, and those areas generally have lower average income, bigger household sizes and, unfortunately, since they are immigrant-favored areas there are cultural and language barriers regarding spreading information and practicing covid-safe habits. From what I understand, after finding out about these demographic issues the city has hired testing and contact tracing and communications staff that speaks languages of major immigrant groups, and it has helped.
It’s same here, many don’t have the privilege of leaving town for summer cottages or wherever people go. However, the fact that many do leave benefits those who stay, since there’s less population density in the city. As nothing is black and white, there’s a big issue with the mass movement to cottages: healthcare capacity is planned based on where people are registered to live, so those countryside areas don’t have healthcare capacity for all those summer cottage residents to be getting sick with an epidemic spread at, say, a local village grocery store somewhere in the countryside. This is one of the main reasons there was an internal border closure between greater Helsinki area and the rest of the country a year ago, as the virus had only spread within Helsinki area at that point.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I wouldn't be booking anything overseas anywhere for now. There is no guarantee Aussies will be allowed into NZ anytime soon. Only time will tell. Could be a long time yet.
Also I find it crazy sports people are playing still if they aren't 100% sure they don't have Covid. Really. Dumb. Who are the nut jobs in charge that are allowing it to happen without properly testing everyone? Guess money is more important than a couple of weeks off beforehand to make sure everyone is safe. I feel sorry for their families more than anything since they'll be catching it off the players.
Athletes, coaches, etc on sports teams are all tested on a daily basis. Players can also opt out of practicing and playing if they choose.
That daily testing doesn't seem to be working very well does it? Someone a page or two back said they were catching it while playing their sport so obviously they to go into isolation for two weeks before a game. When we had the Australian Open tennis on and international players arrived they had to go into isolation. Some of them got tested before flying over and got here with Covid!2 -
They discussed A-Z on TWIV in more depth this week. To boil it down, they said the incidence of blood clots was no greater than in the general pop, BUT acknowledged the fact that those few affected were under 55 women was unusual,as we're the specifics of the cases. They said that while it could be coincidental, it requires study. However, they said that you still have a better chance right now of getting a bad case of covid than you do of getting dangerous blood clots from the A-Z vaccine, so they don't think countries who are relying on A-Z should withdraw it and risk prolonging the pandemic.
There was a deep dive discussion on the differences between A-Z and the other major vaccines, and I was not able to follow any of it
They also mentioned that there's been a lot of "drama" around the A-Z trial and rollout and while they're convinced the A-Z vaccine is a good vaccine, it's a shame A-Z has made such a mess of the whole thing.
As they look further into this, I wonder if there will be a history of hormonal birth control (after 35) and smoking, and other factors that increase the risk of blood clots. The specificity of the demographic makes me think there will be other commonalities as well.6 -
They discussed A-Z on TWIV in more depth this week. To boil it down, they said the incidence of blood clots was no greater than in the general pop, BUT acknowledged the fact that those few affected were under 55 women was unusual,as we're the specifics of the cases. They said that while it could be coincidental, it requires study. However, they said that you still have a better chance right now of getting a bad case of covid than you do of getting dangerous blood clots from the A-Z vaccine, so they don't think countries who are relying on A-Z should withdraw it and risk prolonging the pandemic.
There was a deep dive discussion on the differences between A-Z and the other major vaccines, and I was not able to follow any of it
They also mentioned that there's been a lot of "drama" around the A-Z trial and rollout and while they're convinced the A-Z vaccine is a good vaccine, it's a shame A-Z has made such a mess of the whole thing.
The article I read said that the blood clot reaction was similar to a rare reaction one might get with other drugs, specifically heparin, and it is similar to a rare auto immune response. Of course if you are taking one of the drugs that also rarely causes this reaction (like heparin I guess) you would weigh the risks against the benefits of the drug for whatever problem you are treating.
The problem with the vaccine causing the same reaction is that you are giving it to young healthy people who are not ill yet and may never be - so the risk assessment gets a little more tricky. That's the summary I read about it anyway - I guess we will see what Canada decides on it. I agree though they did make a mess of it - I don't know if the Astra Zeneca vaccine will ever be well accepted here now.
Heparin is a blood thinner. I didn’t realize clots were a potential side effect.1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Just something that happened yesterday to me unusual during my workout. Don't know if it had anything to do with the shot on Friday or not, but I push my workouts pretty hard (I do cardio 6 days a week for around an hour a day).
Did a 1K (machine) row TT (timed test). I know it's an odd thing to do -- my version of pushing hard on the treadmill but the treadmill is a rower instead. I was feeling a bit off yesterday AM, but it's not that unusual for me to push hard when I'm not feeling 100%. This is the rowing machine equivalent of an 800m all out run. I did a warmup as well (1000 meters, around five minutes). I do this type of stuff often, two times a week, so this isn't anything out of the ordinary. I often do 500m X 8 (half the distance, a little less hard, but 8 reps) once or twice a month. Usually my HR drops like a rock during recovery, which is a good sign.
Yesterday was different. HR stayed high, had a nasty cough and felt like garbage. Maybe the coughing had a lot to do with the HR not dropping, but it took like 10 minutes for the HR to drop back to normal from significantly elevated. Perhaps the shot along with allergens in the air and just a bit of a warmer day. Felt like exercise induced asthma that lasted for hours, severe for around 30 to 40 minutes. I've had exercise induced asthma years ago in my youth, when I was in way worse aerobic shape than I am now, but nothing like this in the last 10 years, so I felt the timing to be odd.
I can't seem to find any advice except for "exercise as normal" related to the vaccines. Maybe just a one off day for me. Who knows. In general, it's not a great idea to push hard unless you feel 100%, so certainly partly my fault, but I certainly won't be pushing my HR past 90% max again until I'm feeling 100% from this round or the second Pfizer shot.
Asthma is frequently an autoimmune issue, so maybe your immune system, being triggered after the vax, then flared up with a bit of your old exercise-induced asthma? When I got COVID last March, I developed some pretty nasty, progressively worse asthma in the weeks and months after. Never needed an inhaler before COVID, but now I have two, even a full year later. It took about 9 months to get my running pace back to something near normal. I'm also the type who works out vigorously most days of the week. I wonder if you would have developed full blown asthma like I did, if you'd had COVID. At least now you're vaxxed, so you probably won't have to find out!
That makes sense. I don't know, but it's the only time I've ever taken a baby aspirin after a workout and thought, this might be what a heart attack feels like! But no tightness in chest and no pain, other than not being able to breath well and the wind pipe feeling like it was constricting. Super slow day today and feeling much better.
I big part of the reason I moved to AZ from Ohio was, of all things, I was allergic to fresh cut grass. I started to go anaphylactic a couple of times there mowing the lawn. It is indeed scary when you suddenly can't breath. There's also a ton of pollen out right now in Tucson. We have these little yellow weeds that are all over. Brittlebush is the nickname for it. This is pretty much similar to the hill behind my house right now.
https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/shrub/encfar/all.html
I'm glad you're getting back to your normal paces again. That's frustrating to work that hard and have a huge setback.
My allergies were terrible in Oklahoma. The cotton. OMG. It could literally catch in your throat and choke you!2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I wouldn't be booking anything overseas anywhere for now. There is no guarantee Aussies will be allowed into NZ anytime soon. Only time will tell. Could be a long time yet.
Also I find it crazy sports people are playing still if they aren't 100% sure they don't have Covid. Really. Dumb. Who are the nut jobs in charge that are allowing it to happen without properly testing everyone? Guess money is more important than a couple of weeks off beforehand to make sure everyone is safe. I feel sorry for their families more than anything since they'll be catching it off the players.
Athletes, coaches, etc on sports teams are all tested on a daily basis. Players can also opt out of practicing and playing if they choose.
That daily testing doesn't seem to be working very well does it? Someone a page or two back said they were catching it while playing their sport so obviously they to go into isolation for two weeks before a game. When we had the Australian Open tennis on and international players arrived they had to go into isolation. Some of them got tested before flying over and got here with Covid!
The problem with mitigation testing, even if it's daily, is that it's still just a snapshot of that moment in time. With uncertainty about when exactly a person becomes contagious vs when they test positive for the virus, it's not a perfect system.
Profesional team sports are very different than the one-off events like a tennis tournament.
Pro leagues cannot have their players isolate for the duration of their seasons. Their seasons are many months long, they play multiple times per week and practice nearly every day. They travel, although some leagues here (pro hockey and basketball), have altered their schedules to try to limit travel. You can't ask someone, even someone with a multi-million dollar contract, to stay away from their families for 6 months.
Pro sports is big business, and is still bleeding money, as many teams are still playing in empty arenas. Lots of jobs depend on this industry...and not just the jobs of millionaires and billionaires, so there's a great desire to make it work, even with the risks involved.6 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I wouldn't be booking anything overseas anywhere for now. There is no guarantee Aussies will be allowed into NZ anytime soon. Only time will tell. Could be a long time yet.
Also I find it crazy sports people are playing still if they aren't 100% sure they don't have Covid. Really. Dumb. Who are the nut jobs in charge that are allowing it to happen without properly testing everyone? Guess money is more important than a couple of weeks off beforehand to make sure everyone is safe. I feel sorry for their families more than anything since they'll be catching it off the players.
Athletes, coaches, etc on sports teams are all tested on a daily basis. Players can also opt out of practicing and playing if they choose.
That daily testing doesn't seem to be working very well does it? Someone a page or two back said they were catching it while playing their sport so obviously they to go into isolation for two weeks before a game. When we had the Australian Open tennis on and international players arrived they had to go into isolation. Some of them got tested before flying over and got here with Covid!
The problem with mitigation testing, even if it's daily, is that it's still just a snapshot of that moment in time. With uncertainty about when exactly a person becomes contagious vs when they test positive for the virus, it's not a perfect system.
Profesional team sports are very different than the one-off events like a tennis tournament.
Pro leagues cannot have their players isolate for the duration of their seasons. Their seasons are many months long, they play multiple times per week and practice nearly every day. They travel, although some leagues here (pro hockey and basketball), have altered their schedules to try to limit travel. You can't ask someone, even someone with a multi-million dollar contract, to stay away from their families for 6 months.
Pro sports is big business, and is still bleeding money, as many teams are still playing in empty arenas. Lots of jobs depend on this industry...and not just the jobs of millionaires and billionaires, so there's a great desire to make it work, even with the risks involved.
We ask our service people here in the US to stay away from there families for 6 months on a regular basis and they don't have multimillion $ contracts. God bless them.
With that said, I do hope we can make sports work.14 -
Just curious I haven't really been watching the news. Are they still saying that fully vaccinated people can be asymptomatic & possibly spread Covid? I've read it both ways that yes you can and no you can't.2
-
RetiredAndLovingIt wrote: »Just curious I haven't really been watching the news. Are they still saying that fully vaccinated people can be asymptomatic & possibly spread Covid? I've read it both ways that yes you can and no you can't.
The data is starting to show that it's unlikely you can carry and spread it after vaccination, but not impossible. There's no yes or no answer right now. All the variants of the virus make it complicated.5 -
They discussed A-Z on TWIV in more depth this week. To boil it down, they said the incidence of blood clots was no greater than in the general pop, BUT acknowledged the fact that those few affected were under 55 women was unusual,as we're the specifics of the cases. They said that while it could be coincidental, it requires study. However, they said that you still have a better chance right now of getting a bad case of covid than you do of getting dangerous blood clots from the A-Z vaccine, so they don't think countries who are relying on A-Z should withdraw it and risk prolonging the pandemic.
There was a deep dive discussion on the differences between A-Z and the other major vaccines, and I was not able to follow any of it
They also mentioned that there's been a lot of "drama" around the A-Z trial and rollout and while they're convinced the A-Z vaccine is a good vaccine, it's a shame A-Z has made such a mess of the whole thing.
The article I read said that the blood clot reaction was similar to a rare reaction one might get with other drugs, specifically heparin, and it is similar to a rare auto immune response. Of course if you are taking one of the drugs that also rarely causes this reaction (like heparin I guess) you would weigh the risks against the benefits of the drug for whatever problem you are treating.
The problem with the vaccine causing the same reaction is that you are giving it to young healthy people who are not ill yet and may never be - so the risk assessment gets a little more tricky. That's the summary I read about it anyway - I guess we will see what Canada decides on it. I agree though they did make a mess of it - I don't know if the Astra Zeneca vaccine will ever be well accepted here now.
Heparin is a blood thinner. I didn’t realize clots were a potential side effect.
Yes it is given for blood clots - but it does have this same known rare reaction that affects platelet counts (Thrombocytopenia) so treatment with heparin would make the reaction worse. Like anyone who has this rare reaction to the vaccine should not be treated with heparin, is my understanding.
0 -
Does anyone with science knowledge have any ideas as to why one vaccine would trigger this reaction, while similar vaccines created to induce the same immune response wouldn't?
It makes me wonder if it has more to do with the age group targeted by that vaccine, than the specific vaccine itself, and maybe once the other vaccines are used more widely in lower age groups we might run into the same issue with them?1 -
Does anyone with science knowledge have any ideas as to why one vaccine would trigger this reaction, while similar vaccines created to induce the same immune response wouldn't?
It makes me wonder if it has more to do with the age group targeted by that vaccine, than the specific vaccine itself, and maybe once the other vaccines are used more widely in lower age groups we might run into the same issue with them?
Or something about the standard adjunct (inactive) ingredients in one formulation vs. another, in theory. (There are definitely drugs that one can react to poorly because of their inactive ingredients, due to allergies or sensitivities, including - I believe - some other vaccines.)3 -
In Canada (Toronto area), got my first shot today - Pfizer. So far, so good (no side effects or anything yet)!12
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