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Pfizer for teens?
Replies
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I'm not a scientist, but I do have a BA in Anthropology. I had to learn how to understand research papers for that, and am pretty good at detecting false science and bias. Dr. Campbell is on You tube, but he cites information from actual research papers and will let you know where to find it... Here is another video just simply explaining the role of estrogen in immune response. I'm not saying that the vaccine is dangerous. I'm just saying that this is something I want to look at a little more before deciding to make an appointment for my daughter.
https://youtu.be/vMTNIpt-YjU
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I'm not a scientist, but I do have a BA in Anthropology. I had to learn how to understand research papers for that, and am pretty good at detecting false science and bias. Dr. Campbell is on You tube, but he cites information from actual research papers and will let you know where to find it... Here is another video just simply explaining the role of estrogen in immune response. I'm not saying that the vaccine is dangerous. I'm just saying that this is something I want to look at a little more before deciding to make an appointment for my daughter.https://youtu.be/vMTNIpt-YjU
I haven’t researched this aspect yet, but I think it is definitely something to consider, especially with developing bodies! The question was asked why someone would be hesitant to have the shot for their teen and I feel this is a very logical concern that fits the theme of this thread. They don’t know the long term effects, it’s still so new... I feel like the vaccine is thought so highly of that it is “innocent until proven guilty” (and by guilty, at this point, I think anything short of a smoking gun for high percentages of death seems to be deemed worth the risk for the greater societal good).
I am working toward a plastic free kitchen due to more findings on hormone disruption, and have come across a couple recent articles (all totally unrelated, from completely different sources) talking about a drastic decline in male sperm count and various fertility issues with females painting a very gloomy picture for the future.
I want to have conversations with people about this, to gather information so that I can then do my own research... but being called names for attempting to learn is not a two way conversation by any means. It very much has the feel of “my way or the highway” and I think that is furthering the divide. You can’t educate by yelling insults at someone. And honestly, for some people, those harsh, knee jerk reactions when someone is truly just trying to join in a conversation to gathers facts from other sources might be what causes them to sink their heels in that much harder.6 -
I agree, thank you!!!1
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I agree, thank you!!!
May 17: "I'm still hesitant about it without any good reason to be.."
May 19: "I have always been very regular, predictable and so I know for sure this is a side effect."
You looked until you found a “good reason”. This is - literally - the definition of confirmation bias.
“Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.”
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Yes, because by May 19th I've experienced this side effect that is explained well in this article.Sorry to you all who think TMI!!!! but this isn't misinformation...I have always been very regular, predictable and so I know for sure this is a side effect. :/So until I know for sure, why, I'm holding out a little longer before making my daughter's appt...
https://whowhatwhy.org/2021/05/15/how-the-moderna-vaccine-got-us-talking-about-periods/
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I think it would be more helpful to find science debunking the topic I brought up, instead of attempting psychology. Thank you, though, for the attempt. hahaI agree, thank you!!!
May 17: "I'm still hesitant about it without any good reason to be.."
May 19: "I have always been very regular, predictable and so I know for sure this is a side effect."
You looked until you found a “good reason”. This is - literally - the definition of confirmation bias.
“Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.”
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I think that is essentially human nature, we all have that tendency in some way or another don’t we? I can see that in spousal arguments, teenagers making their case about something (recalling a prior conversation months ago “but you saaaiiiid...!”). Even studies that are funded by a party that has a specific interest... those data points and numbers can often times be molded to their desires which is why many people are now leery of information, even when presented statistics.I agree, thank you!!!
May 17: "I'm still hesitant about it without any good reason to be.."
May 19: "I have always been very regular, predictable and so I know for sure this is a side effect."
You looked until you found a “good reason”. This is - literally - the definition of confirmation bias.
“Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.”
ETA: It can also go both ways, people ignoring information so that their view point can stand strong. Those that are all in for the vaccine can easily cite the positives and gloss over potential side effects... those that are leery of it will use that same information to show why they are against it - cite the side effects and gloss over potential positives. Same information given to two different people, two different emotional reactions, two different end responses.2 -
I agree, thank you!!!
May 17: "I'm still hesitant about it without any good reason to be.."
May 19: "I have always been very regular, predictable and so I know for sure this is a side effect."
You looked until you found a “good reason”. This is - literally - the definition of confirmation bias.
“Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.”
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@NVintage
So, if you're claiming that the vaccine disrupts estrogen because of the immune response, then wouldn't the actual virus (which causes a worse immune response) also be disruptive and change estrogen?
**Edit** to say apparently, yes:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/long-covid-and-periods-the-unspoken-impact-on-female-well-being
Covid19 is such a crap-shoot, there is so much more at stake if you do catch it.
I cannot understand why you would chance that.7 -
moonangel12 wrote: »
I think that is essentially human nature, we all have that tendency in some way or another don’t we? I can see that in spousal arguments, teenagers making their case about something (recalling a prior conversation months ago “but you saaaiiiid...!”). Even studies that are funded by a party that has a specific interest... those data points and numbers can often times be molded to their desires which is why many people are now leery of information, even when presented statistics.I agree, thank you!!!
May 17: "I'm still hesitant about it without any good reason to be.."
May 19: "I have always been very regular, predictable and so I know for sure this is a side effect."
You looked until you found a “good reason”. This is - literally - the definition of confirmation bias.
“Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.”
ETA: It can also go both ways, people ignoring information so that their view point can stand strong. Those that are all in for the vaccine can easily cite the positives and gloss over potential side effects... those that are leery of it will use that same information to show why they are against it - cite the side effects and gloss over potential positives. Same information given to two different people, two different emotional reactions, two different end responses.
Yeah it is definitely human nature. If someone is afraid of the vaccine they will be drawn to information that reinforces those fears.
I had a discussion about Covid vaccines and ADE (antibody dependent enhancement) yesterday with someone who cited that as a reason not to vaccinate. The problem with that stance is that if ADE becomes an issue with new variants, then infection with Covid would also trigger the same reaction on reinfection as the vaccine would.
So the solution to that is to vaccinate as many people as possible in order to mitigate the risk of that happening.
Same with the estrogen issue - if the vaccine triggers it then so would a Covid infection. And if we don't get the pandemic under control then we will all be infected anyway.
So of course I am going to be frustrated that people who are doing the right thing (in my estimation) by getting the vaccine, are being put a risk by those who refuse to do it. Nothing is without risk - the risk of the pandemic raging on long enough to spawn more deadly variants is much greater than the risk of the vaccine.
With all the illness and death (not to mention the mental health crisis) this pandemic has brought not vaccinating for fear of having a heavier than normal period strikes me as a flimsy excuse at this point. I mean stress and taking Advil affect your period - so what?
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I think it would be more helpful to find science debunking the topic I brought up, instead of attempting psychology. Thank you, though, for the attempt. hahaI agree, thank you!!!
May 17: "I'm still hesitant about it without any good reason to be.."
May 19: "I have always been very regular, predictable and so I know for sure this is a side effect."
You looked until you found a “good reason”. This is - literally - the definition of confirmation bias.
“Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.”
The pandemic in general is impacting menstrual cycles.
"441/46% reported a change in their menstrual cycle since the beginning of the pandemic. 483/53% reported worsening premenstrual symptoms, 100/18% reported new menorrhagia (p = 0.003) and 173/30% new dysmenorrhea (p < 0.0001) compared to before the pandemic. 72/9% reported missed periods who not previously missed periods (p = 0.003) and the median number of missed periods was 2 (1–3)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8030584/7 -
I think it would be more helpful to find science debunking the topic I brought up, instead of attempting psychology. Thank you, though, for the attempt. hahaI agree, thank you!!!
May 17: "I'm still hesitant about it without any good reason to be.."
May 19: "I have always been very regular, predictable and so I know for sure this is a side effect."
You looked until you found a “good reason”. This is - literally - the definition of confirmation bias.
“Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.”
The pandemic in general is impacting menstrual cycles.
"441/46% reported a change in their menstrual cycle since the beginning of the pandemic. 483/53% reported worsening premenstrual symptoms, 100/18% reported new menorrhagia (p = 0.003) and 173/30% new dysmenorrhea (p < 0.0001) compared to before the pandemic. 72/9% reported missed periods who not previously missed periods (p = 0.003) and the median number of missed periods was 2 (1–3)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8030584/
Looks like stress is the major factor of concern in that study.
And as far as the study design, asking participants to recall what happened over a long time isn't the best way to get data, as they may forget details or misjudge severity.2 -
I fully intend to vaccinate my teens. My daughter already has had both her hers, she just turned 18, and my 15YO is a scheduled. My youngest is 11 and not eligible yet, he will be in August.
First, I do think everyone needs to weigh the medical risk to themselves and their children. There are individuals in our society who can not receive vaccines for very legitimate medical reasons. Those individuals rely on the rest of us to get vaccinated so that they are also protected.
Me and my children have never had adverse reactions to any vaccinations beyond the usual sore arm and occasional fever. We do not have any known allergies, and we do not have any medical issues that would mean it would be dangerous to get the vaccine. We are low risk and I feel it’s our duty to society to protect others who can’t get vaccinated.
I know people are concerned with the rapid approval of using these vaccines. However, the Covid vaccine has actually been being developed now for over 10 years. With the emergence of the virus it finally got funding and the backing needed finish the process. Yes, testing went fast but no steps were skipped. For me this just highlights how capable we actually are of developing life saving medical treatments, and how much our bureaucratic process bogs down science.
The reason other vaccines took so long is not because it made them safer, it’s because our system and process for making them faster is broken.
I respect someone choosing not to vaccinate for any reason, but is also support a business or entity who chooses to tell unvaccinated individuals they are not allowed entry. We all make choices in life, and those choices come with consequences good and bad. I make the choices that are right for me and my family and align with our values. I also accept the consequences that come with those choices.13 -
No, but it doesn't make sense to use irrational fears to pressure people into vaccinating children any more than it does for adults to go unvaccinated if they're at higher risk for complications.
Being more concerned about the vaccine due to the 37 women who have reported heavier periods post-vaccine is not more rational than being concerned about COVID variants.
What's happening is that there are free-floating sub-rational fears about vaccinations just looking for anything to latch on to.7 -
So apparently if I'm understanding this right, the immune response can cause estrogen levels to rise. So I probably wouldn't worry for a son or if my daughter were a little older, but she is about a year away from starting menstruation and I worry about giving her something that alters her hormone levels, right now. I'll keep looking into it, though, and might reevaluate if we have an outbreak this Autumn or if a new variant looks more dangerous for kids. Right now, there's not high risk for contracting it in our area. I am still glad to have gotten it myself, but wish that particular side effect was listed with the others...
Here is an interesting video talking about estrogen and Covid(from 9 months ago)
[snipped video link]
You know what else increases estrogen? Saturated fat. I learned this in December and since then have drastically reduced my fat and sat fat consumption and my periods are lighter. (I also increased fiber.) This month my period was 48% lighter than in December.
I have an MRI Monday and I'm really curious to see if my fibroids are smaller as well. My subjective impression is that they are, and I can't wait to see what the scan says.
So take away her cheese and everything will balance out
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That is interesting! I haven't heard of that before. She actually doesn't eat cheese anyway, haha! If she did I probably wouldn't mess with that as long as it was in moderation.
The more I read about that crazy side effect, the more I think it is the immune system and stress-not anxiety stress-but the stress that your body is in while recuperating. I bet there were a lot more than 37 women, and that it is under-reported...It probably happens with other vaccines, too.
I think two of the best things you can do for teens is to provide a healthy diet and a low stress environment for them to live!kshama2001 wrote: »So apparently if I'm understanding this right, the immune response can cause estrogen levels to rise. So I probably wouldn't worry for a son or if my daughter were a little older, but she is about a year away from starting menstruation and I worry about giving her something that alters her hormone levels, right now. I'll keep looking into it, though, and might reevaluate if we have an outbreak this Autumn or if a new variant looks more dangerous for kids. Right now, there's not high risk for contracting it in our area. I am still glad to have gotten it myself, but wish that particular side effect was listed with the others...
Here is an interesting video talking about estrogen and Covid(from 9 months ago)
[snipped video link]
You know what else increases estrogen? Saturated fat. I learned this in December and since then have drastically reduced my fat and sat fat consumption and my periods are lighter. (I also increased fiber.) This month my period was 48% lighter than in December.
I have an MRI Monday and I'm really curious to see if my fibroids are smaller as well. My subjective impression is that they are, and I can't wait to see what the scan says.
So take away her cheese and everything will balance out
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Whatever side effects one gets from a vaccine, the effects of the actual virus will be amplified even more than that. It makes more sense to fear the actual virus than the vaccine for that virus.11
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That is interesting! I haven't heard of that before. She actually doesn't eat cheese anyway, haha! If she did I probably wouldn't mess with that as long as it was in moderation.
The more I read about that crazy side effect, the more I think it is the immune system and stress-not anxiety stress-but the stress that your body is in while recuperating. I bet there were a lot more than 37 women, and that it is under-reported...It probably happens with other vaccines, too.
I think two of the best things you can do for teens is to provide a healthy diet and a low stress environment for them to live!kshama2001 wrote: »So apparently if I'm understanding this right, the immune response can cause estrogen levels to rise. So I probably wouldn't worry for a son or if my daughter were a little older, but she is about a year away from starting menstruation and I worry about giving her something that alters her hormone levels, right now. I'll keep looking into it, though, and might reevaluate if we have an outbreak this Autumn or if a new variant looks more dangerous for kids. Right now, there's not high risk for contracting it in our area. I am still glad to have gotten it myself, but wish that particular side effect was listed with the others...
Here is an interesting video talking about estrogen and Covid(from 9 months ago)
[snipped video link]
You know what else increases estrogen? Saturated fat. I learned this in December and since then have drastically reduced my fat and sat fat consumption and my periods are lighter. (I also increased fiber.) This month my period was 48% lighter than in December.
I have an MRI Monday and I'm really curious to see if my fibroids are smaller as well. My subjective impression is that they are, and I can't wait to see what the scan says.
So take away her cheese and everything will balance out
After my 2nd Moderna shot, my period was late, heavier than normal and I had horrendous cramps and even digestive issues with it. Then, I got my period again 2 weeks later. I actually went to the gyno because I thought there might be something wrong. Up until then, I was quite regular. It could be because of the vaccine, or it could be cause I'm heading into perimenopause at age 44. However, that doesn't influence my decision to give the vaccine to my daughter once she's eligible (she's 9).6 -
@speakeasy76
I'm 44, too. I am pretty sure it was the vaccine, for me, because it is so rare for that to happen with me...It was just for two days, like you said, and then normal. Weird! I am leaning toward getting my daughter vaccinated in August before school starts. I'm planning to over research til then and see how kids do with it.
Do you think that's true for kids, though? I thought most the time they just got a runny nose or something...while adults have it worse and might get pneumonia.Whatever side effects one gets from a vaccine, the effects of the actual virus will be amplified even more than that. It makes more sense to fear the actual virus than the vaccine for that virus.
ALL-
It is a new type of vaccine technology never approved for humans until now, right? What is wrong with researching it before deciding if I think it's worth it? Statistics clearly show 18-55 year olds are the main ones spreading it and over 55 are the ones that are mostly hospitalized. I think it's more important to focus on these groups. I am glad to have t available to kids and if my daughter was in a high risk group I wouldn't hesitate.
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@speakeasy76
I'm 44, too. I am pretty sure it was the vaccine, for me, because it is so rare for that to happen with me...It was just for two days, like you said, and then normal. Weird! I am leaning toward getting my daughter vaccinated in August before school starts. I'm planning to over research til then and see how kids do with it.
Do you think that's true for kids, though? I thought most the time they just got a runny nose or something...while adults have it worse and might get pneumonia.Whatever side effects one gets from a vaccine, the effects of the actual virus will be amplified even more than that. It makes more sense to fear the actual virus than the vaccine for that virus.
ALL-
It is a new type of vaccine technology never approved for humans until now, right? What is wrong with researching it before deciding if I think it's worth it? Statistics clearly show 18-55 year olds are the main ones spreading it and over 55 are the ones that are mostly hospitalized. I think it's more important to focus on these groups. I am glad to have t available to kids and if my daughter was in a high risk group I wouldn't hesitate.
I haven't researched this deeply, but from reports I've seen, the occurrence of even potentially severe long-haul-type side effects of Covid was *not* strongly correlated with severity of the initial disease. IOW, a mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic case could have serious long term complications. Not sure whether that aspect differs by age.
I'm not saying this to push at you, because I think it's reasonable to be concerned and want to research. I mention it simply as an aspect of the situation you might want to consider and include in the scope of that research. If I had kids, I would.3
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