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Pfizer for teens?

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  • NVintageNVintage Member Posts: 601 Member Member Posts: 601 Member
    I think people should be able to choose, but they shouldn't complain about not being able to travel, go to public schools, or anything else that might be a risk to others. & I think that is how it is, already, here in the US. Schools and travel will probably require covid vaccinations in addition to the other ones that have already been requiring for years.
    My mom doesn't go anywhere and just sees her caretaker and medical providers who hopefully have all been vaccinated. She wears a mask when we see her, and we visit outside. I don't think that she's risking anyone else's health except her own. I do wish she felt comfortable getting the vaccine. I would hate to see her forced to get it against her will, though.

    Have you heard about this?

    The power for states to mandate vaccines lies in the Constitution and a 1905 Supreme Court Case. In Jacobson v. Massachusetts, the Supreme Court upheld the Cambridge Board of Health's authority to require a smallpox inoculation under the 10th Amendment that grants state police powers.

    Still considered a "perfectly good law," according to Tribe, Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene is looking to increase support for rejecting the ruling. In the We Will Not Comply Act, which Greene introduced last week, would express to the Senate that Jacobson should be overturned.

    "This case set a terrible precedent that endorses mandatory state vaccination laws under the 'police power,'" Greene said in a statement.
    https://www.newsweek.com/can-government-force-you-get-covid-19-vaccine-questions-surround-vaccine-passports-1581385
    edited May 17
  • NVintageNVintage Member Posts: 601 Member Member Posts: 601 Member
    I agree. I haven't seen any mandates here that would be anything new. I remember having to have a lot of extra vaccinations when getting hired as a CNA 25 years ago before working in a nursing home...
  • fitom80fitom80 Member Posts: 167 Member Member Posts: 167 Member
    I fully understand your mindflow based on that experience. Covid mrna vaccine is different kind of vaccine although there are risks of consequences including death. But mRNA is not new, only the sequence used against covid and we know from scientific perspective that there could hardly be a long term harm(there is no mechanism for that happen).On the other hand.. MMR.. most of us never faced measles, mumps or rubella, we never had to worry about our children in this way. So we lack this experience and face only experience with vaccines, their occasional negative consequences, so we never got the respest to that deseases. There are also known long term serious consequences of most deseases we vaccinate againt (after years) and covid looks like one of these. Nobody is today talking about it. Much could be written esp. by more educated ppl. than me.
    But I appreciate you are open minded and you didn't made definite conclusion based on your negative experience.(what unfortunatelly lot of ppl did)

  • NVintageNVintage Member Posts: 601 Member Member Posts: 601 Member
    I don't mind at all! Thanks for posting the article. I do follow Oklahoma and Cherokee Nation and think that they've been really successful, but I think it depends on the tribe. Ok, N and S. Dakota, most other places with a big Native population are at an advantage, hopefully, with low population density. But if there are 2.6 million Natives, then it might not be so good because the Indian Health Service has only reported 742,033 having at least the first dose on the vaccine tracker. I don't know about all tribes, but in Cherokee Nation there are around 390, 000 citizens, I think, and at least a third of those live outside Ok and so don't actually use the IHS..
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    NVintage wrote: »
    I agree 100%, and I am planning to schedule my daughter's vaccination when I go in for my second one! I was just responded to those that said that they don't understand the fear and hesitancy, and just saying that I can understand it. It is frustrating, but there are some people that don't want to be vaccinated because of a different religion or concept of health or healing, and that is their right...not always just because of misinformation or distrust. Natives have a lot of historical reasons to distrust the government, but I remember reading that some Shawnees from Ohio, refused to agree to remove to Indian territory without having smallpox vaccine protection in the 1830s! I actually think my grandmother's odd beliefs came from our Mennonite ancestors. As far as I can speculate, to her it contradicted faith or spiritual based healing.?:/ I think with my mom, it might be more a distrust of the medicine and fear of side effects, though.
    fitom80 wrote: »
    NVintage wrote: »
    I feel fortunate to be able to understand both points of view. I know that a lot of people are not getting it because of misinformation, but for others it's really a cultural thing and maybe legitimate reasons to be skeptical passed down from previous generations. Sometimes quite rational, believe it or not! My grandmother who was of Native American, English, and Swiss Mennonite ancestry came up with some pretty good answers not to take any medicines (even when she was diagnosed with diabetes) and she lived til she was 86! I tend to relate to the other side of my family, though, who sees this as just craziness..
    With deepest respect and understanding to what you have written...
    The distrust of your grandmother has maybe roots in "white man medicine".
    What has most cultures in common is reverence to life. Giving trust to all different medical scientists behind research, validation and approval of covid vaccines is expression of it.(many of them working day and night, not a kind of cheap glorification but truth) It's not a kind of "white man medicine".
    My grandfather lived almost as long as your granny. He was hard smoker since childhood. So, is this one experience enought to make a conclusion that doctors are not true about danger of smoking? The truth is that he could lost 10 years becase he had clogged vessel (only serious diseasse he faced) and modern medicine gave him additional 10 years of life.

    This is a bit of a digression, but since it's your thread and you introduced this subtopic, I'll take the risk of following up, and hope you won't mind.

    Interestingly, recently I'm hearing reports that indigenous groups in the US appear to have among the highest vaccination rates. For example:

    https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/covid-19-vaccination-american-indian-alaska-native-people/

    I don't have a link to the particular reports, but I've heard some reports (radio) that were interviewing tribal leaders, who said some relevant factors were relatively high trust in tribal health clinics, a recognition in these groups that elders (valued in US indigenous cultures) were at very high risk, and that sort of thing.

  • NVintageNVintage Member Posts: 601 Member Member Posts: 601 Member
    I don't blame you! Luckily my daughter hasn't had any allergic reactions, and I'm still hesitant about it without any good reason to be..
    33gail33 wrote: »
    NVintage wrote: »
    I hope this doesn't get deleted for being political. It is a subject of health and fitness, though! Do you all think that the risks of covid outweigh the risks of adverse reactions to vaccine in pre-teens and teenagers? Is it worth it for healthy kids to be vaccinated?

    Have there been adverse reactions to the Pfizer vaccine? I haven't heard of any. I don't have teens my kids are in their 20's and are all getting it. I honestly don't understand why everyone is so hesitant about this vaccine compared to the 20 or so their kids have already had.
    Maybe I am simple but the idea that 0.3 ml of a substance designed to trigger a specific immune response would have some sort of random negative effect years down the road seems bizarre and far fetched to me. I wouldn't be worried at all about it.
    I hesitate jumping in to any discussion on vaccines, but I wanted to give my quick point of view... I am not antivax at all, but I did put on the brakes a bit when my 3rd child had a horrendous reaction to the MMR as a baby/toddler (her pediatrician said in her 30 years she had never seen anything like it... side note, I don’t think it was ever reported. I had to get their shot records when we moved and her MMR boosters are listed as “parent refusal” even though her pediatrician made it very clear she should never have another one again 😡). That daughter has a host of allergies and sensitivities. My fourth has some as well, but not to the same extent so we were slow and methodical with his vaccinations. I also have some auto immune issues and am one that if there is a side effect to be had, I am going to have it so I am definitely leery for now. Once more time passes and more information is gathered I will be more comfortable, but for now I still feel like we are in a trial state for this particular vaccine.

    Again, I am not antivax by any means, I just want more time and info before making that decision. We are only a year and some change out from even discovering the virus, I just feel like it was too fast so I am a bit skeptical of the long term effects at this point.

  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 20,279 Member Member, Premium Posts: 20,279 Member
    NVintage wrote: »
    I don't mind at all! Thanks for posting the article. I do follow Oklahoma and Cherokee Nation and think that they've been really successful, but I think it depends on the tribe. Ok, N and S. Dakota, most other places with a big Native population are at an advantage, hopefully, with low population density. But if there are 2.6 million Natives, then it might not be so good because the Indian Health Service has only reported 742,033 having at least the first dose on the vaccine tracker. I don't know about all tribes, but in Cherokee Nation there are around 390, 000 citizens, I think, and at least a third of those live outside Ok and so don't actually use the IHS..
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    NVintage wrote: »
    I agree 100%, and I am planning to schedule my daughter's vaccination when I go in for my second one! I was just responded to those that said that they don't understand the fear and hesitancy, and just saying that I can understand it. It is frustrating, but there are some people that don't want to be vaccinated because of a different religion or concept of health or healing, and that is their right...not always just because of misinformation or distrust. Natives have a lot of historical reasons to distrust the government, but I remember reading that some Shawnees from Ohio, refused to agree to remove to Indian territory without having smallpox vaccine protection in the 1830s! I actually think my grandmother's odd beliefs came from our Mennonite ancestors. As far as I can speculate, to her it contradicted faith or spiritual based healing.?:/ I think with my mom, it might be more a distrust of the medicine and fear of side effects, though.
    fitom80 wrote: »
    NVintage wrote: »
    I feel fortunate to be able to understand both points of view. I know that a lot of people are not getting it because of misinformation, but for others it's really a cultural thing and maybe legitimate reasons to be skeptical passed down from previous generations. Sometimes quite rational, believe it or not! My grandmother who was of Native American, English, and Swiss Mennonite ancestry came up with some pretty good answers not to take any medicines (even when she was diagnosed with diabetes) and she lived til she was 86! I tend to relate to the other side of my family, though, who sees this as just craziness..
    With deepest respect and understanding to what you have written...
    The distrust of your grandmother has maybe roots in "white man medicine".
    What has most cultures in common is reverence to life. Giving trust to all different medical scientists behind research, validation and approval of covid vaccines is expression of it.(many of them working day and night, not a kind of cheap glorification but truth) It's not a kind of "white man medicine".
    My grandfather lived almost as long as your granny. He was hard smoker since childhood. So, is this one experience enought to make a conclusion that doctors are not true about danger of smoking? The truth is that he could lost 10 years becase he had clogged vessel (only serious diseasse he faced) and modern medicine gave him additional 10 years of life.

    This is a bit of a digression, but since it's your thread and you introduced this subtopic, I'll take the risk of following up, and hope you won't mind.

    Interestingly, recently I'm hearing reports that indigenous groups in the US appear to have among the highest vaccination rates. For example:

    https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/issue-brief/covid-19-vaccination-american-indian-alaska-native-people/

    I don't have a link to the particular reports, but I've heard some reports (radio) that were interviewing tribal leaders, who said some relevant factors were relatively high trust in tribal health clinics, a recognition in these groups that elders (valued in US indigenous cultures) were at very high risk, and that sort of thing.

    Article I linked says "Federal data show that 32% of AIAN people had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, compared to 19% of White people, 16% of Asian people, 12% of Black people and 9% Hispanic people of as of April 5, 2021.State data similarly find higher vaccination rates among AIAN people compared to other groups." Your numbers (742,033/2.6M) would be 28.5%, so if the Feds have sources other than IHS, those a fairly close numbers, it seems like. Of course, all of the data for all groups has changed since 4/5/21, presumably by quite a lot, so who knows.

    FWIW, some of the interviews I've heard have been in-state to Michigan. We do have a number of Native residents here, probably more concentrated in areas that (among the non-Native population) have been pretty rebellious about public health measures. I believe this would be Anishinaabe (Odawa, Pottawatomi, Ojibwe) primarily, here, but I'm not very knowledgeable. Not nearly as big a Native population here as in your area, though. I think only around 45,000.
  • NVintageNVintage Member Posts: 601 Member Member Posts: 601 Member
    Oh, thanks for doing the math!!!! It's not as low as I thought just looking at it, & It would be a little more than the 28.5 because of people getting vaccinated outside the communities. (I'm really not that bad at math, but got 2 hours of sleep last night due to pulled chest muscles. I might be out of my element today talking statistics, haha! :blush: & I will admit I went total hypochondriac thinking it was heart inflammation, until I remembered carrying two bedside tables over my head and down the stairs and that I am almost 45, too old to be doing stuff like that!)
    edited May 18
  • NVintageNVintage Member Posts: 601 Member Member Posts: 601 Member
    That might be true, but then people who are excited to get the vaccine might have them to thank for being able to get an appointment easily(at least here, where I live). I was able to get a next day appointment, and only had a five minute wait even though I got there 20 minutes early by accident!
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    NVintage wrote: »
    I hope this doesn't get deleted for being political. It is a subject of health and fitness, though! Do you all think that the risks of covid outweigh the risks of adverse reactions to vaccine in pre-teens and teenagers? Is it worth it for healthy kids to be vaccinated?

    Have there been adverse reactions to the Pfizer vaccine? I haven't heard of any. I don't have teens my kids are in their 20's and are all getting it. I honestly don't understand why everyone is so hesitant about this vaccine compared to the 20 or so their kids have already had.
    Maybe I am simple but the idea that 0.3 ml of a substance designed to trigger a specific immune response would have some sort of random negative effect years down the road seems bizarre and far fetched to me. I wouldn't be worried at all about it.
    I hesitate jumping in to any discussion on vaccines, but I wanted to give my quick point of view... I am not antivax at all, but I did put on the brakes a bit when my 3rd child had a horrendous reaction to the MMR as a baby/toddler (her pediatrician said in her 30 years she had never seen anything like it... side note, I don’t think it was ever reported. I had to get their shot records when we moved and her MMR boosters are listed as “parent refusal” even though her pediatrician made it very clear she should never have another one again 😡). That daughter has a host of allergies and sensitivities. My fourth has some as well, but not to the same extent so we were slow and methodical with his vaccinations. I also have some auto immune issues and am one that if there is a side effect to be had, I am going to have it so I am definitely leery for now. Once more time passes and more information is gathered I will be more comfortable, but for now I still feel like we are in a trial state for this particular vaccine.

    Again, I am not antivax by any means, I just want more time and info before making that decision. We are only a year and some change out from even discovering the virus, I just feel like it was too fast so I am a bit skeptical of the long term effects at this point.

    Well if someone is going to have an allergic reaction to a vaccine how is waiting for more information going to help that? They will still have an allergic reaction now or later. Wouldn't checking the ingredients to see if there are any commonalities with whatever caused the previous reactions be more prudent?

    When I said I hadn't heard of any negative reactions maybe I should have specified that doesn't include allergic reactions, which obviously can happen with anything, and don't really say anything about the safety of a substance (I'm allergic to chick peas and I'm pretty sure billions of people safely eat them).

    Fwiw my coworker had an allergic reaction to the flu vaccine years ago, was told never to get another one, and got the Pfizer shot last week without incident.
    I have also had the experience of a vaccine being recalled shortly after my son had received it. So yes, a bit hesitant with one so new and largely untested.

    So you are waiting until it is “tested” on everyone else who chooses to get it until you decide?
    I mean I guess that is your choice but if everyone decided to do that then we would all be in the same boat as India right now. I guess I could have done the “wait and see” but once cases started raging here I couldn’t get my vaccine fast enough.
    If that isn’t the case where you are it is probably because other stepped up and got their vaccine - I just hope that people like you realize that other people who step up to take the vaccine are the reason that you have the luxury of making that choice.

    edited May 18
  • NVintageNVintage Member Posts: 601 Member Member Posts: 601 Member
    I'm aggravated more by international travelers than those hesitant to get a vaccine.. At some point, though, I had to just go with the live and let live philosophy and just hope for the best, because as much as we think our way is the best way for everyone there's going to be at least a billion other people on the planet who will disagree!
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