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Pfizer for teens?
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A lot has been said here about confirmation bias. I think there is another sort of bias largely at play here, where people tend to be more afraid of the harm of doing something by deliberate choice, than the exact same amount of harm (or evem greater) that happened to them from inaction. Ergo, getting long-term secondary effects from the vaccine, even though much less likely, subconsciously seems more scary than getting them from Covid (more likely).
Yup - tried to find if it has a name and it does - omission bias.
I think that is even further exasperated when the action we must chose to take or not to take impacts our children.
If anyone recognizes themselves in this, think about this: you are actively choosing to withhold vaccination from your children. You are not "waiting to make a decision" - you are making one right now to expose them to one kind of risk vs another for the duration. If something happens, it will still be because of your decision. Waiting won't make the decision easier. If you still can't decide to never vaccinate them, you know deep down you should vaccinate them but fear is holding you off.
FWIW my daughter is getting the vaccine first chance she gets - in our Canadian province school authorities will bus all children wanting to get the shot in the next 3 weeks. I am happy and grateful they are doing this and I don't know a single person who is not getting the vaccine or not letting their eligible kids have it.16 -
I agree with you with you about social media, but I really don't like how you quoted me, but edited what I actually said. Isn't that sort of like what the social media influencers do?YellowD0gs wrote: »So apparently if I'm understanding this right, the immune response can cause estrogen levels to rise. So I probably wouldn't worry for a son or if my daughter were a little older, but she is about a year away from starting menstruation and I worry about giving her something that alters her hormone levels, right now. I'll keep looking into it, though, and might reevaluate if we have an outbreak this Autumn or if a new variant looks more dangerous for kids. Right now, there's not high risk for contracting it in our area. I am still glad to have gotten it myself, but wish that particular side effect was listed with the others...
Here is an interesting video talking about estrogen and Covid(from 9 months ago)
YouTube "doctor" deleted
Just to be clear, if anybody needs any more reasons to AVOID social media medicine... Social Media Influencers paid money to discredit Pfizer vaccine.
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So apparently if I'm understanding this right, the immune response can cause estrogen levels to rise. So I probably wouldn't worry for a son or if my daughter were a little older, but she is about a year away from starting menstruation and I worry about giving her something that alters her hormone levels, right now. I'll keep looking into it, though, and might reevaluate if we have an outbreak this Autumn or if a new variant looks more dangerous for kids. Right now, there's not high risk for contracting it in our area. I am still glad to have gotten it myself, but wish that particular side effect was listed with the others...
Here is an interesting video
https://youtu.be/AoSHkuc0hp8YellowD0gs wrote: »
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I'm not a scientist, but I do have a BA in Anthropology. I had to learn how to understand research papers for that, and am pretty good at detecting false science and bias. Dr. Campbell is on You tube, but he cites information from actual research papers and will let you know where to find it... Here is another video just simply explaining the role of estrogen in immune response. I'm not saying that the vaccine is dangerous. I'm just saying that this is something I want to look at a little more before deciding to make an appointment for my daughter.
https://youtu.be/vMTNIpt-YjU
@YellowD0gs This is a webinar from the University of Genova1 -
Short answer - approval of health authority in your country is synonym of YES said by highly educated ppl in that area.
Long answer. You have to take into account that young ppl can spread virus (and die or have serious consequences too) , the more is covid spread the higher risk for mutations that can weaken or devalue current vaccination, there are also ppl that cannot be vaccinated. Currently the focus is to vaccinate ppl under highest risk but the overall goal is to vaccinate as much ppl as possible to stop the spread of virus and lower the risk of new mutations.
(sorry for my english, hope you will understand)
This is almost identical to what I'd say too.
It's supressing the virus, reducing the risk of a mutation that's not controlled. Giving time for further research. Spanish Flu took about 3 years to get under control without vaccine/today's technology. Still odd outbreaks of flu virus globally but so much easier to control now- we'll not be rid of COVID-19 but we need to be in control not it controlling us.5 -
My 11yo daughter has a heart condition. I can't wait for her age group to be approved for vaccination!! The whole family takes the flu vaccine yearly too, for the same reason: to protect her.9
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I just saw this article on line. I really hope that parents start paying attention to this possible outbreak within the teen population and help them schedule their vaccination. Even if the youngsters don't get too sick, and based on reports from COVID survivors, they may have lingering side effects too regardless of their age.
A rise in adolescent hospitalization rates is a reminder that children can suffer from the virus too, expert says
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html2 -
I know this article has a lot of truth to it, but I think this type of reporting is one reason why many people continue to distrust the government and public health. The headlines about rises in adolescent hospitalization rates without mentioning the actual numbers just seems manipulative...
I'd rather someone tell me, "Look your kid has almost a zero chance of being hospitalized from covid unless there are previous health conditions to worry about. However, we have an abundance of vaccine in America and so why not vaccinate the kids to get closer to herd immunity since we have so many adults who refuse it...if all the adults were vaccinated we'd have no reason to vaccinate healthy kids. "
From the CDC site:
Among 376 adolescents hospitalized during January 1–March 31, 2021, who received a positive SARS-CoV-2 laboratory test result, 172 (45.7%) were analyzed separately because their primary reason for admission might not have been directly COVID-19–related (Table). Among the 204 patients who were likely admitted primarily for COVID-19–related illness, 52.5% were female, 31.4% were Hispanic or Latino (Hispanic), and 35.8% were non-Hispanic Black. Overall, 70.6% had one or more underlying medical conditions, the most common of which were obesity (35.8%), chronic lung disease, including asthma (30.9%), and neurologic disorders (14.2%); 31.4% of patients required ICU admission and 4.9% required invasive mechanical ventilation, but there were no associated deaths.I just saw this article on line. I really hope that parents start paying attention to this possible outbreak within the teen population and help them schedule their vaccination. Even if the youngsters don't get too sick, and based on reports from COVID survivors, they may have lingering side effects too regardless of their age.
A rise in adolescent hospitalization rates is a reminder that children can suffer from the virus too, expert says
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
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So that was 200-300 kids out of about 25 million?
https://www.childstats.gov/AMERICASCHILDREN/tables/pop1.asp0 -
That were hospitalized. What percentage of kids with Covid do you think end up in the hospital? (Rhetorical question I don't know the exact number but I assume it is fairly low).
Which means that many more kids are infected, and capable of spreading the virus to those who have risk factors and/or can't get vaccinated or don't mount an immune response to the vaccine. It also means many more kids might have long term complications (which are not dependent on the severity of illness.)
Do you think that your kids risk of hospitalization from the vaccine is higher than 200-300 in 25 million?
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Good question!:D We also have to take into account the risk of exposure... 100% if vaccinated versus maybe 1 in 1,000 chance at most of being exposed to covid in my area right now (would be a lot less if more adults were vaccinated.)That were hospitalized. What percentage of kids with Covid do you think end up in the hospital? (Rhetorical question I don't know the exact number but I assume it is fairly low).
Which means that many more kids are infected, and capable of spreading the virus to those who have risk factors and/or can't get vaccinated or don't mount an immune response to the vaccine. It also means many more kids might have long term complications (which are not dependent on the severity of illness.)
Do you think that your kids risk of hospitalization from the vaccine is higher than 200-300 in 25 million?
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Also, is it ethical for wealthy countries to start vaccinating low risk children, while developing countries need vaccines for their elderly people?2
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Also, is it ethical for wealthy countries to start vaccinating low risk children, while developing countries need vaccines for their elderly people?
When the "wealthy" countries have an abysmal healthcare system, yes.
Go into the inner cities and rural poor areas of the U.S. and tell people with no health insurance that they should wait for their vaccine because the country is so "wealthy".11 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Also, is it ethical for wealthy countries to start vaccinating low risk children, while developing countries need vaccines for their elderly people?
When the "wealthy" countries have an abysmal healthcare system, yes.
Go into the inner cities and rural poor areas of the U.S. and tell people with no health insurance that they should wait for their vaccine because the country is so "wealthy".
Where in the U.S. do people not have Access to health insurance or state-funded plans?
I got it for free on my state's insurance marketplace when Obamacare kicked in - 2014 or so.3 -
cmriverside wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Also, is it ethical for wealthy countries to start vaccinating low risk children, while developing countries need vaccines for their elderly people?
When the "wealthy" countries have an abysmal healthcare system, yes.
Go into the inner cities and rural poor areas of the U.S. and tell people with no health insurance that they should wait for their vaccine because the country is so "wealthy".
Where in the U.S. do people not have Access to health insurance or state-funded plans?
I got it for free on my state's insurance marketplace when Obamacare kicked in - 2014 or so.
State plans depend on the state you live in. Some states have refused Medicaid expansion (Wyoming, Texas, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Mississippi, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Kansas and Florida)
About 30 million people in the U.S. are uninsured. Many more have crappy insurance that is designed to bankrupt you if you get seriously ill.
What's messed up is that a Supreme Court ruling is expected by July that could strike down the ACA. That would result in an additional 23 million people having to find a different plan or go without.8 -
ah. Well, I guess I'm glad I moved away from Florida...and for a lot more reasons than insurance. I admit, I don't know how that works, haven't kept up with it, don't care, etc. I guess you make do with what's in front of you.1
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Some people do have insurance but their deductible is so high, 3-5k a year that it prevents them from seeking care. For some the monthly payments are 700+ per month. The very poor typically qualify for Medicaid and get everything free. It is those just above that threshold or even lower middle class who have a hard time.7
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Also, is it ethical for wealthy countries to start vaccinating low risk children, while developing countries need vaccines for their elderly people?
Yes this is not a simple moral dilemma. There are 25000 ppl in the world dying daily from hunger (10000 children). There are also simply treatable diseases many ppl in third world unnecessarily are dying from. In this context it doesn't sounds as dilemma but cynicism.
On the other hand and if it helps to challenge the dilemma...i have to add that there are ppl that cannot be vaccinated between us. Currently we need to achieve more than 80%( new mutations) to have a chance to protect them and unfortunately without children this is not possible.4 -
Also, is it ethical for wealthy countries to start vaccinating low risk children, while developing countries need vaccines for their elderly people?
This is part of the debate currently in the UK.
The vaccine has been approved for use for 12 - 15 years old as being safe and effective.
But the decision has not yet been made whether to actively vaccinate this age group.
Do remember the impact of the virus is not solely around suffering adverse reactions to COVID which are typically but not exclusively mild in that age group, think of the missed education and social isolation too.
This wouldn't be the only vaccine given to children for the benefit of society as a whole of course.
There's not an easy answer whether we should prioritise vaccinating a low risk group, which besides the benefits to that cohort also reduces infection spread, versus donating to COVAX for vaccinating high risk groups in other countries. A targetted response to outbreaks and hotspots is one option.3
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