Keto and Fasting has been amazing thus far.
Replies
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Heh, I was going to say something similar, Ann (except I usually do eat kind of low carb). I don't like most bread much and certainly don't have an urge to overeat it, and the breads I do like (like naan), I eat rarely. Yet I got fat and I lost weight all without changing my bread consumption (which was limited for preference reasons). Even as a kid I drove my mother crazy because I would eat sandwiches so figuring out lunches was more challenging, for example.
Only ignorant people assume carbs = bread. I get a lot of carbs from fruit and veg and beans and tubers, among other foods.6 -
Human history is much longer than you can imaging. Thousands years of evolution is definitely not correct, We talking millions years of evolution. All this amazingly long historical stretch humans did not touch even one piece of bread, one piece of sugar. What prehistoric man could find in nature is only, plants parts . like tubers, leaves, stems, very small fruits, berries. With such a little nutritious values of these parts of veggies, sure thing he turned to the meat of animals, where whole spectrum of nutrients and calories present in full.
Some people miss the point: not all carbs created equal. If they say carbs , they mean bread, for some reason. Let distinguish once and forever carbs are not only bread. Carbs are million of plants and their parts. They are not addictive, hard to eat 1 lb of kale or spinach, but it is easy to eat 1lb sandwich for some people. Bread looks good, smells good and taste very good. Such heard to resist fresh bread.
in 7 years of being on this forum I have not seen any post saying carbs are only bread.
maybe there have been some, I haven't read every single thread - but not sure where these 'some people' are.
I dont think it is something that needed to be distinguished.
Nothing wrong with eating bread - nothing wrong with not eating bread either if you don't want to or you have a medical reason or find it hard to control or whatever.
Eat it or don't eat it as you wish.
Same goes for any other food - it is just a food, like any other food
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Human history is much longer than you can imaging. Thousands years of evolution is definitely not correct, We talking millions years of evolution. All this amazingly long historical stretch humans did not touch even one piece of bread, one piece of sugar. What prehistoric man could find in nature is only, plants parts . like tubers, leaves, stems, very small fruits, berries. With such a little nutritious values of these parts of veggies, sure thing he turned to the meat of animals, where whole spectrum of nutrients and calories present in full.
Some people miss the point: not all carbs created equal. If they say carbs , they mean bread, for some reason. Let distinguish once and forever carbs are not only bread. Carbs are million of plants and their parts. They are not addictive, hard to eat 1 lb of kale or spinach, but it is easy to eat 1lb sandwich for some people. Bread looks good, smells good and taste very good. Such heard to resist fresh bread.
I don't particularly like bread, only eat it occasionally. I eat around 250g carbs daily. Evolutionary biologists will tell you that the thousands of years of human farming are plenty of time to create adaptation to eat grain. Flour is just ground grain.
I would also add that over half the population of the world eats rice (rice is a grain) as a basic go-to staple for a major portion of their daily calories.8 -
Human history is much longer than you can imaging. Thousands years of evolution is definitely not correct, We talking millions years of evolution. All this amazingly long historical stretch humans did not touch even one piece of bread, one piece of sugar. What prehistoric man could find in nature is only, plants parts . like tubers, leaves, stems, very small fruits, berries. With such a little nutritious values of these parts of veggies, sure thing he turned to the meat of animals, where whole spectrum of nutrients and calories present in full.
Some people miss the point: not all carbs created equal. If they say carbs , they mean bread, for some reason. Let distinguish once and forever carbs are not only bread. Carbs are million of plants and their parts. They are not addictive, hard to eat 1 lb of kale or spinach, but it is easy to eat 1lb sandwich for some people. Bread looks good, smells good and taste very good. Such heard to resist fresh bread.
I don't particularly like bread, only eat it occasionally. I eat around 250g carbs daily. Evolutionary biologists will tell you that the thousands of years of human farming are plenty of time to create adaptation to eat grain. Flour is just ground grain.
I would also add that over half the population of the world eats rice (rice is a grain) as a basic go-to staple for a major portion of their daily calories.
I also find it fascinating when talking about our ancestors that one believes they all ate the same kind of food, ignoring climate and availability. Those in tropical regions are differently than those in more northern regions.11 -
Human history is much longer than you can imaging. Thousands years of evolution is definitely not correct, We talking millions years of evolution. All this amazingly long historical stretch humans did not touch even one piece of bread, one piece of sugar. What prehistoric man could find in nature is only, plants parts . like tubers, leaves, stems, very small fruits, berries. With such a little nutritious values of these parts of veggies, sure thing he turned to the meat of animals, where whole spectrum of nutrients and calories present in full.
Some people miss the point: not all carbs created equal. If they say carbs , they mean bread, for some reason. Let distinguish once and forever carbs are not only bread. Carbs are million of plants and their parts. They are not addictive, hard to eat 1 lb of kale or spinach, but it is easy to eat 1lb sandwich for some people. Bread looks good, smells good and taste very good. Such heard to resist fresh bread.
I don't particularly like bread, only eat it occasionally. I eat around 250g carbs daily. Evolutionary biologists will tell you that the thousands of years of human farming are plenty of time to create adaptation to eat grain. Flour is just ground grain.
I would also add that over half the population of the world eats rice (rice is a grain) as a basic go-to staple for a major portion of their daily calories.
I also find it fascinating when talking about our ancestors that one believes they all ate the same kind of food, ignoring climate and availability. Those in tropical regions are differently than those in more northern regions.
yes - even there in first post quoted is - historically, humans never ate one piece of sugar, only what they found in nature as plant parts
I'm sure humans where wild sugar cane grows did eat pieces of sugar, found in nature as plant parts
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Yes, those sugars in nature, are distributed in the fiber of the plant. For 5 g of concentrated sucralose (which is our sugar) you, probably chew a whole plant of 3-4 lb shugar canes or 3-4 roots of beet.
As much as archaeology declares, the switch to agriculture made man worth in physical condition: shorter stature, teeth decay, diabetics mellitus, heart problem of all sorts, newrologic problems, arthritis, allergic reactions, leaky guts, lectin problems, inflamation of different origin.3 -
Yes, those sugars in nature, are distributed in the fiber of the plant. For 5 g of concentrated sucralose (which is our sugar) you, probably chew a whole plant of 3-4 lb shugar canes or 3-4 roots of beet.
As much as archaeology declares, the switch to agriculture made man worth in physical condition: shorter stature, teeth decay, diabetics mellitus, heart problem of all sorts, newrologic problems, arthritis, allergic reactions, leaky guts, lectin problems, inflamation of different origin.
Our table sugar is sucrose, not sucralose. Sucralose is an artificial sweetener.
Sucrose is a disaccharide, contains two monosaccharides, glucose and fructose.
Honey is also primarily glucose and fructose. Archeological evidence suggests that humans have been keeping bees for at least 9,000 years, and foraging honey much longer.
Sugar beets run around 18% sugar, and a sugar beet weighs 2 to 5 pounds. That suggests that a single small -ish sugar beet contains around 163g of sucrose. I'm sure that modern sugar beets are more sucrose-dense than their pre-agricultural forms, but just for comparison purposes, one regular modern table beet (not sugar beet so not bred for optimized sugar content) contains around 5.5g of sugar, per USDA.
It's easy to find these facts.
Sure, it's not a good idea, in terms of overall nutrition, to consume lots of sugar - to the point that it puts one over reasonable calories, or drives out other necessary nutrition, for example.11 -
Sucrose, OK I take my mistake.
For bread more goodies I just recalled: opioids content, glycimic and insulimic indexes more than pure sugar 130%, autoimmune diseases, possible autism in children.
Asian example of consuming rice is very poor example. While in USA and other western countries around 10% population diagnosed with diabetes, unfortunate Asian countries like China, India, Indonesia (all high consumption of rice) have scaled to 30% of real diagnosed diabetes of all ages including young kids.
Growth of the world diabetes increased from 9% in 2000, 12% in 2010, 16.8% in 2020. Most growth attributed to higher growing populations in Asian countries. So, no greatness about rice, like any other grains, especially GMO.
Sorry about man who started this thread. He just wanted to share with community his success story of eating no bread and other high processed food. He did not specified how much he and his wife weighted before started keto. But my impression was around 360-400 lb. I wanted be as close as possible to his specific needs. I repeat again, that keto/low carb may not be perfect for everybody. People with normal metabolism could eat what they want , but specifically this man and woman have already have eaten their load of bread. It is very good, that keto worked for them. I hope for the close future it will be working for them also5 -
Apologies for adding to digression on your thread, OP.
You and your girlfriend are doing great! It's kind of magical when people find the healthy way of eating that works best for them, and it sounds like you've done that. Good show!
I was thinking I'd already posted to this effect, after your amazing 7/27 photo update post. I had not, and I'm sorry.
Keep up the great work, and we'll look forward to more wonderful updates!2 -
Human history is much longer than you can imaging. Thousands years of evolution is definitely not correct, We talking millions years of evolution. All this amazingly long historical stretch humans did not touch even one piece of bread, one piece of sugar. What prehistoric man could find in nature is only, plants parts . like tubers, leaves, stems, very small fruits, berries. With such a little nutritious values of these parts of veggies, sure thing he turned to the meat of animals, where whole spectrum of nutrients and calories present in full.
Some people miss the point: not all carbs created equal. If they say carbs , they mean bread, for some reason. Let distinguish once and forever carbs are not only bread. Carbs are million of plants and their parts. They are not addictive, hard to eat 1 lb of kale or spinach, but it is easy to eat 1lb sandwich for some people. Bread looks good, smells good and taste very good. Such heard to resist fresh bread.
First off..... wrong about hunter gatherers diets being primarily meat based. Is actually heavily plant based. This is a breakdown by season of the Hadza's diet6 -
Sucrose, OK I take my mistake.
For bread more goodies I just recalled: opioids content, glycimic and insulimic indexes more than pure sugar 130%, autoimmune diseases, possible autism in children.
Asian example of consuming rice is very poor example. While in USA and other western countries around 10% population diagnosed with diabetes, unfortunate Asian countries like China, India, Indonesia (all high consumption of rice) have scaled to 30% of real diagnosed diabetes of all ages including young kids.
Growth of the world diabetes increased from 9% in 2000, 12% in 2010, 16.8% in 2020. Most growth attributed to higher growing populations in Asian countries. So, no greatness about rice, like any other grains, especially GMO.
Sorry about man who started this thread. He just wanted to share with community his success story of eating no bread and other high processed food. He did not specified how much he and his wife weighted before started keto. But my impression was around 360-400 lb. I wanted be as close as possible to his specific needs. I repeat again, that keto/low carb may not be perfect for everybody. People with normal metabolism could eat what they want , but specifically this man and woman have already have eaten their load of bread. It is very good, that keto worked for them. I hope for the close future it will be working for them also
ummmm... so whole grains, like rice are bad for you??? Let's ask the blue zones....
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Congratulations on your success.
I for one would never consider someone fasting to be crazy. People have been doing it through out history in many different cultures and religions.
Good luck. I am a little concerned you are pushing yourself too hard, but you can always relax the diet a bit if it becomes too much.3 -
For bread more goodies I just recalled: opioids content, glycimic and insulimic indexes more than pure sugar 130%, autoimmune diseases, possible autism in children.
Oh dear, that is really silly.
Please provide any sources that support such assertions.
bread is just a food - eat it or dont eat it, thats all.14 -
Human history is much longer than you can imaging. Thousands years of evolution is definitely not correct, We talking millions years of evolution. All this amazingly long historical stretch humans did not touch even one piece of bread, one piece of sugar. What prehistoric man could find in nature is only, plants parts . like tubers, leaves, stems, very small fruits, berries. With such a little nutritious values of these parts of veggies, sure thing he turned to the meat of animals, where whole spectrum of nutrients and calories present in full.
Some people miss the point: not all carbs created equal. If they say carbs , they mean bread, for some reason. Let distinguish once and forever carbs are not only bread. Carbs are million of plants and their parts. They are not addictive, hard to eat 1 lb of kale or spinach, but it is easy to eat 1lb sandwich for some people. Bread looks good, smells good and taste very good. Such heard to resist fresh bread.
I don't particularly like bread, only eat it occasionally. I eat around 250g carbs daily. Evolutionary biologists will tell you that the thousands of years of human farming are plenty of time to create adaptation to eat grain. Flour is just ground grain.
To piggyback off your point:
I enjoy bread when I choose to eat it. I can also go weeks without eating it.
When I say "carbs," I don't mean "bread." The idea that low carbers have a better idea of what carbohydrates are than those of us who regularly eat a moderate-to-high carbohydrate diet is kind of ridiculous. We KNOW carbohdyrates are found in a variety of foods, some of them quite nutrient-dense. That's why we choose to eat the way we do!6 -
Yes, those sugars in nature, are distributed in the fiber of the plant. For 5 g of concentrated sucralose (which is our sugar) you, probably chew a whole plant of 3-4 lb shugar canes or 3-4 roots of beet.
As much as archaeology declares, the switch to agriculture made man worth in physical condition: shorter stature, teeth decay, diabetics mellitus, heart problem of all sorts, newrologic problems, arthritis, allergic reactions, leaky guts, lectin problems, inflamation of different origin.
I'm really curious how archaeologists have documented "leaky gut," given that it's a controversial diagnosis even today with live patients.12 -
Sardinia, Italy are part of Midditerenian rigion. It is exactly that part of the world which was a rule maker for menu items like shishkabab, kebab, prosciutto, soppressata, salami, coppa, pizza. And you want to suggest that these people did not know how to make and prepare meats. To present those colorful diagrams, some of the people, oddly chosen living in the area of interest who age over 100 y/o were sent special questionnaires with questions what did you eat last year, last 10 years, last 50 years, last 100 years. Do you think these people of 100 years and over could remember what they eat? They hardly remember what they eat yesterday...
The other point of errors, is some disagreement between what can be considered as MEAT. On this question "did you eat meat?" They can answer " NO meat I eat," b/c they don t even consider poultry, fish, crabs, octopus, sheep, pork as meat. For many nationals, meat it means cow meat only.
The third point is disagreement between perception of food names. You may say pizza is meat dish, but Amarican society calles pizza vegetable dish. Olive leaves are veggies or meat dish? Stuffed cabbage is veggies or meat?
Now, if you want to include wild bees honey in your menu, think again. Wild bees are such an angry animals, that you have to be super pro to get single ounce of honey from their nest.
Now tubers in hadza" menu". If you try those tubers, you probably spit them the same time. They unbelievably hard to chew, nasty in taste and have very little nutritious value. Comparing them with modern carefully selectionned thru thousands years will be stupid, at least .
For example watermelon of prehistoric times were size of walnut, little tarty yellow, hard skinned fruits. Apples were look and taste like our modern crap apples.
So those diagrams have very little truth information3 -
On Okinawa diagram, nobody told you what style of eating those people have. But it is a very special comment has to be done. They eat first about 2 times a day, consuming only 80% of fullness feeling in the stomach. With this style of eating any food, even cake or pop corn turn in to heath food.3
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So, no source for your bread and opiods autism etc claims then10
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Read books of dr Benjamin Bickman, Robert Lustig, Paul Mason, Kriss Knobbe, Sten Ekberg, Diet Doctor Brad Scher, Peter Attia. Or just listen their podcasts, especially I recommend Metabolic Classroom with short and dens exploration of the nutrition matter.
I just find out that Sardinia Centenarians questionnaires were done in the period of lent, when these very religion people have to low or out-rite reject any meat product. So I suggest, to take these studies with grain of salt3 -
You may say pizza is meat dish, but Amarican society calles pizza vegetable dish.
I don't think you should assume that most Americans consider pizza a vegetable dish. It's not at all uncommon for Americans to eat pizza without any vegetables on it at all (other than the culinary vegetable of tomato).
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