Coronavirus prep
Replies
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rheddmobile wrote: »So, Tennessee is supposedly leading the nation in new Covid cases as a percentage of population. Ugh.
I’m posting because I was reading the local paper and noticed a new phenomenon - people who died of Covid because they were unvaccinated but their families are ashamed to admit it. At least I assume that’s what’s happening. A local pastor died and his fellow pastor said he “was uncomfortable revealing his vaccination status.” Okay - does that mean your church is full of anti-vaxxers and letting them know he was vaccinated would freak them out? Or, much more likely since vaccinated people rarely die, is it that you don’t want people saying, “I told you so?”
The other was a restaurant owner whose adult daughter claimed she “didn’t know her father’s vaccination status.” Well… if my father entered the hospital with Covid I would for sure ask! How could she possibly be telling the truth about this?
It seems to me most likely that both of these articles reveal a new phenomenon, people who don’t want to admit they did something stupid and Darwin’s hammer came down on their heads.
The schadenfreude is pretty potent on social media right now. There is a dedicated subreddit, for example, to posting several excerpts from someone's anti-vax Facebook timeline to a final post announcing their (usually awful and painful) death from COVID. They scrub the identifying components, of course, but someone in your town may figure it out.
Schadenfreude is an amazing word that I just learned of this year, and found it exceeding pertinent to the last 18 months. I even brought the word up to this group a couple months ago when I first learned of it.
I find it hard to comprehend though that people would participate in a subreddit of the sort that you are describing @oocdc2 . It's a sad statement of who we are becoming.3 -
We’ve had two deaths recently in our tiny county. And I still have people in the local Facebook group I admin calling it a hoax and laughing at the idea that anyone has died
The delta variant is surging here. The teeny tiny hospital is overwhelmed with no place to send anyone who needs a transfer for any reason. They’re caring for COVID patients in the freaking ER because there’s nowhere else to put them.
So if you’re not COVID positive and you have heart attack symptoms it’s either risk death at home or risk COVID by going to the ER.
And good luck because they don’t have the staff to give anyone a cardiac cath right now….
We are so so so screwed. All because some people who could do some very easy things to mitigate this disaster flat refuse to.30 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »We’ve had two deaths recently in our tiny county. And I still have people in the local Facebook group I admin calling it a hoax and laughing at the idea that anyone has died
The delta variant is surging here. The teeny tiny hospital is overwhelmed with no place to send anyone who needs a transfer for any reason. They’re caring for COVID patients in the freaking ER because there’s nowhere else to put them.
So if you’re not COVID positive and you have heart attack symptoms it’s either risk death at home or risk COVID by going to the ER.
And good luck because they don’t have the staff to give anyone a cardiac cath right now….
We are so so so screwed. All because some people who could do some very easy things to mitigate this disaster flat refuse to.
@SModa61 circumstances like those posed above is why the subreddit is so popular, unfortunately. It's not necessarily about being cruel (though, it happens), it's about witnessing the natural consequences for someone's actions as well as being frustrated with people who cannot be bothered with promoting the general welfare of their neighbors and their nation.
What gets me when I read some of these entries is that the family is often left bankrupt and without an income. Children become orphans. And for what?20 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »We’ve had two deaths recently in our tiny county. And I still have people in the local Facebook group I admin calling it a hoax and laughing at the idea that anyone has died
The delta variant is surging here. The teeny tiny hospital is overwhelmed with no place to send anyone who needs a transfer for any reason. They’re caring for COVID patients in the freaking ER because there’s nowhere else to put them.
So if you’re not COVID positive and you have heart attack symptoms it’s either risk death at home or risk COVID by going to the ER.
And good luck because they don’t have the staff to give anyone a cardiac cath right now….
We are so so so screwed. All because some people who could do some very easy things to mitigate this disaster flat refuse to.
@SModa61 circumstances like those posed above is why the subreddit is so popular, unfortunately. It's not necessarily about being cruel (though, it happens), it's about witnessing the natural consequences for someone's actions as well as being frustrated with people who cannot be bothered with promoting the general welfare of their neighbors and their nation.
What gets me when I read some of these entries is that the family is often left bankrupt and without an income. Children become orphans. And for what?
Yesterday our health department and county commissioners had a meeting on Zoom. And described our current situation here. Which is where I got the information above.
I posted the link to the meeting to my emergency group that I admin.
This morning I woke up to a person in the group wondering why, if there were “only 3 patients last week ONE OF THEM NOT EVEN COVID!” how could the hospital be overrun with Covid patients now????
Like it was some kind of got’cha question.
Like it’s completely impossible for a 20 bed hospital to become completely overwhelmed in the space of a week during a surge of a deadly pandemic.
Like this isn’t exactly the kind of community emergency you promised to help out in when you (the person in my Facebook group )signed up for the group17 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »We’ve had two deaths recently in our tiny county. And I still have people in the local Facebook group I admin calling it a hoax and laughing at the idea that anyone has died
The delta variant is surging here. The teeny tiny hospital is overwhelmed with no place to send anyone who needs a transfer for any reason. They’re caring for COVID patients in the freaking ER because there’s nowhere else to put them.
So if you’re not COVID positive and you have heart attack symptoms it’s either risk death at home or risk COVID by going to the ER.
And good luck because they don’t have the staff to give anyone a cardiac cath right now….
We are so so so screwed. All because some people who could do some very easy things to mitigate this disaster flat refuse to.
@SModa61 circumstances like those posed above is why the subreddit is so popular, unfortunately. It's not necessarily about being cruel (though, it happens), it's about witnessing the natural consequences for someone's actions as well as being frustrated with people who cannot be bothered with promoting the general welfare of their neighbors and their nation.
What gets me when I read some of these entries is that the family is often left bankrupt and without an income. Children become orphans. And for what?
Yesterday our health department and county commissioners had a meeting on Zoom. And described our current situation here. Which is where I got the information above.
I posted the link to the meeting to my emergency group that I admin.
This morning I woke up to a person in the group wondering why, if there were “only 3 patients last week ONE OF THEM NOT EVEN COVID!” how could the hospital be overrun with Covid patients now????
Like it was some kind of got’cha question.
Like it’s completely impossible for a 20 bed hospital to become completely overwhelmed in the space of a week during a surge of a deadly pandemic.
Like this isn’t exactly the kind of community emergency you promised to help out in when you (the person in my Facebook group )signed up for the group
The irony is almost more than I can hold in my mind.8 -
rheddmobile wrote: »So, Tennessee is supposedly leading the nation in new Covid cases as a percentage of population. Ugh.
I’m posting because I was reading the local paper and noticed a new phenomenon - people who died of Covid because they were unvaccinated but their families are ashamed to admit it. At least I assume that’s what’s happening. A local pastor died and his fellow pastor said he “was uncomfortable revealing his vaccination status.” Okay - does that mean your church is full of anti-vaxxers and letting them know he was vaccinated would freak them out? Or, much more likely since vaccinated people rarely die, is it that you don’t want people saying, “I told you so?”
The other was a restaurant owner whose adult daughter claimed she “didn’t know her father’s vaccination status.” Well… if my father entered the hospital with Covid I would for sure ask! How could she possibly be telling the truth about this?
It seems to me most likely that both of these articles reveal a new phenomenon, people who don’t want to admit they did something stupid and Darwin’s hammer came down on their heads.
The schadenfreude is pretty potent on social media right now. There is a dedicated subreddit, for example, to posting several excerpts from someone's anti-vax Facebook timeline to a final post announcing their (usually awful and painful) death from COVID. They scrub the identifying components, of course, but someone in your town may figure it out.
Schadenfreude is an amazing word that I just learned of this year, and found it exceeding pertinent to the last 18 months. I even brought the word up to this group a couple months ago when I first learned of it.
I find it hard to comprehend though that people would participate in a subreddit of the sort that you are describing @oocdc2 . It's a sad statement of who we are becoming.
I read an article today that referred to vaxenfreude, meaning the feeling of pleasure that the vaccinated supposedly feel when they hear the unvaccinated have gotten covid and been hospitalized or died.
I suppose there are people that actually feel pleasure. For me, it's more an inability to feel compassion for them. I think many of us were are already at a point of compassion fatigue after reading just a small sampling of the first 500,000 who died in the U.S., or whatever the number is where one is, during 2020 when they had no vaccine option and in many or most cases were just trying to continue to be able to pay their rent or mortgage, utilities, etc., or possibly provide health care, first-responder services, and other essential services. My well of compassion is running pretty dry, and I feel inclined to reserve it for people who didn't essentially play Russian roulette with the virus while evincing zero sense of responsibility for protecting others. I'll feel compassion for a friend who, despite being vaccinated, ended up catching the virus, most likely from another vaccinated person, and was extremely sick for two weeks, and even had to go the emergency room.16 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »So, Tennessee is supposedly leading the nation in new Covid cases as a percentage of population. Ugh.
I’m posting because I was reading the local paper and noticed a new phenomenon - people who died of Covid because they were unvaccinated but their families are ashamed to admit it. At least I assume that’s what’s happening. A local pastor died and his fellow pastor said he “was uncomfortable revealing his vaccination status.” Okay - does that mean your church is full of anti-vaxxers and letting them know he was vaccinated would freak them out? Or, much more likely since vaccinated people rarely die, is it that you don’t want people saying, “I told you so?”
The other was a restaurant owner whose adult daughter claimed she “didn’t know her father’s vaccination status.” Well… if my father entered the hospital with Covid I would for sure ask! How could she possibly be telling the truth about this?
It seems to me most likely that both of these articles reveal a new phenomenon, people who don’t want to admit they did something stupid and Darwin’s hammer came down on their heads.
The schadenfreude is pretty potent on social media right now. There is a dedicated subreddit, for example, to posting several excerpts from someone's anti-vax Facebook timeline to a final post announcing their (usually awful and painful) death from COVID. They scrub the identifying components, of course, but someone in your town may figure it out.
Schadenfreude is an amazing word that I just learned of this year, and found it exceeding pertinent to the last 18 months. I even brought the word up to this group a couple months ago when I first learned of it.
I find it hard to comprehend though that people would participate in a subreddit of the sort that you are describing @oocdc2 . It's a sad statement of who we are becoming.
I read an article today that referred to vaxenfreude, meaning the feeling of pleasure that the vaccinated supposedly feel when they hear the unvaccinated have gotten covid and been hospitalized or died.
I suppose there are people that actually feel pleasure. For me, it's more an inability to feel compassion for them. I think many of us were are already at a point of compassion fatigue after reading just a small sampling of the first 500,000 who died in the U.S., or whatever the number is where one is, during 2020 when they had no vaccine option and in many or most cases were just trying to continue to be able to pay their rent or mortgage, utilities, etc., or possibly provide health care, first-responder services, and other essential services. My well of compassion is running pretty dry, and I feel inclined to reserve it for people who didn't essentially play Russian roulette with the virus while evincing zero sense of responsibility for protecting others. I'll feel compassion for a friend who, despite being vaccinated, ended up catching the virus, most likely from another vaccinated person, and was extremely sick for two weeks, and even had to go the emergency room.
Yup.
Same.
It kind of reminds me of how I felt when my stepson racked his balls.
Scene: Vancouver BC. During Expo 86.
His dad, myself, and a small group of friends were walking about ten blocks to The Old Spaghetti Factory.
There was a brick retaining wall. At first it was only about two feet high, but as we progressed the street was declining in slope and the brick retaining wall was level.
I kept asking my then ten year old stepson to get down, and he kept refusing. As we came close to a spot where the post of a street sign of some sort was embedded in the top of the brick wall I was almost pleading with my stepson to get down. At this point the wall was about five feet high.
My stepson chose to grab the post of the street sign and try to swing around it á la Gene Kelly in Singing In The Rain.
But he missed.
One leg landed on the top of the wall and the other leg hit the edge of the top of the wall right over his knee, and scraped all the way up… it was hot. Summer. He was wearing skimpy 80’s shorts.
It wasn’t at all pretty. And I was sorry he was in pain…. But I had been telling him to get down off the wall.
I feel the same about antimaskers who die of COVID.
I am sorry they died. But I’m more sorry they chose not to listen to what doctors have been saying for almost two years now.17 -
Yup, natural consequences. Sometimes it's the best teacher. But sadly, in these times, it may be the last teacher.
If people would get rid of the 'it'll never happen to me' attitude. How can they believe in such far-fetched ideas such as micro-chips yet disbelieve all the science? SMH 15 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
I read an article today that referred to vaxenfreude, meaning the feeling of pleasure that the vaccinated supposedly feel when they hear the unvaccinated have gotten covid and been hospitalized or died.
I suppose there are people that actually feel pleasure. For me, it's more an inability to feel compassion for them. I think many of us were are already at a point of compassion fatigue after reading just a small sampling of the first 500,000 who died in the U.S., or whatever the number is where one is.
100%
I don't feel joy or pleasure when people die. I am just done with feeling bad about it. At this point if you choose to not have the vaccine and you die from Covid that is 100% on you. Just like i don't have a lot of compassion when people do other stupid things and die. They did it to themselves.
So no, I don't feel joy or pleasure. I feel tired and all I can think of is "You were warned." Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.18 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
I read an article today that referred to vaxenfreude, meaning the feeling of pleasure that the vaccinated supposedly feel when they hear the unvaccinated have gotten covid and been hospitalized or died.
I suppose there are people that actually feel pleasure. For me, it's more an inability to feel compassion for them. I think many of us were are already at a point of compassion fatigue after reading just a small sampling of the first 500,000 who died in the U.S., or whatever the number is where one is.
100%
I don't feel joy or pleasure when people die. I am just done with feeling bad about it. At this point if you choose to not have the vaccine and you die from Covid that is 100% on you. Just like i don't have a lot of compassion when people do other stupid things and die. They did it to themselves.
So no, I don't feel joy or pleasure. I feel tired and all I can think of is "You were warned." Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I understand the ambivalence towards people who bear the consequences of their own choices -- not happy to see them suffer, not sad that what they chose freely had the predicted consequences. Their choice.
The lamentable part, obviously, is when consequences harm others who had no involvement or even resisted the choice. There are so, so many consequences for children trying to go to school and patients trying to access healthcare and healthcare workers who would like a 40-50 hour work week. How any public servant can, with a straight face, say prevention measures are a personal choice with no consequences for others is truly beyond the pale. We are all paying the price for this.
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the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
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I dont know if any of you are on my friends list, if so, you saw this yesterday afternoon, possibly. Yesterday afternoon I was out working in one of our barns and HAPPENED to have my phone on me (okay, I was also taking pics LOL- but truly, i dont USUALLY have my phone out there with me) and it was the school, saying my son had been exposed to covid and i needed to come get him NOW. What follows below tells the rest of the story. This is an email that I sent to one of the reporters that my best friend knows at our local paper. Bestie thought her reporter friend would be very interested in knowing the answer to the questions I (we both) had...
Hello,
You may find this as interesting and perplexing as myself and my best friend did. Between the two of us, we have three students at (school) High. All three are fully vaccinated, as are we. Today, on the third day of school, I received a call from the school nurse saying that my son had been in direct contact with someone with covid and I needed to come pick him up. I was in the middle of something, the nurse sounded a bit harried (which is to be expected) and I did not even think about this until I was on my way to the school. I had called my friend to see if she had also received the call. No, but she says... "Your son is fully vaccinated. Why are you having to pick him up? That's not what the State or CDC guidelines say." I had no answer. Hung up with her, called the school. "My son has been fully vaccinated. I don't remember ever being asked for this information. Would you like me to bring the card or a copy of it so he can stay in school?". After being out on hold for a brief moment, I was told that no, that the 'vaccines apparently were 'useless' and that it was a 10 day quarantine OR we could do a PCR test on September 12 and if negative, bring the results to the school and he could come back'.
I asked again at the school, why a fully vaccinated child had to leave, who was showing no symptoms, who wore a mask all day, and where the child who tested positive ALSO wore a mask all day. I just got shrugged shoulders in response.
My questions are:
When did this school policy change and why were parents not notified?
Why does school policy seem to override State or CDC Guidelines (again, without notification to parents). Is this just (school) or County-wide? An actual policy or knee jerk reaction?
Why does the school get to determine that a vaccine is or is not effective (and science has proven that having the vaccine lessens the chance of getting covid as well as decreases the intensity of it for the majority of people if you DO get it, even with the Delta variant). A school employee telling a parent they don't even KNOW, that a CDC approved vaccine is 'useless' is gross negligence as far as I am concerned, regardless of what that employee's personal feelings are on the matter.
and finally...
If TEACHERS or other staff are directly exposed, are THEY subject to a 10 day quarantine as well? If not... WHY? Because up until this point, the policy was that if they had been fully vaccinated and were showing no symptoms, that even if they had been exposed, they were still allowed (and I believe, expected) to work. If they are going to quarantine 40 students for being exposed to one positive student, but not a teacher who was ALSO exposed, what is the point of allowing the teacher to stay (or bus driver, or cafeteria worker, or janitor, etc) to, in theory, expose even more people? Where is the logic in that?
(end email)
I'm sure eventually my mind would have stumbled on all of these things but right when I got the call I was like 'hurry up and do what I'm doing (Yes I was taking pics but I was also doing other stuff out there LOL) and hurry up AND remember the dates the nurse gave me cause when I asked if she was sending home a letter with these dates she said NO thats why im calling, and i didnt exactly have paper and pen with me out in a BARN. so when i pulled out of my driveway and called bestie and she said that i was like 'oh damn. youre right! why didnt i think of that!' APPARENTLY it doesnt even matter
and i would honestly be shocked (in the area that we live in) if even a half of these kids are vaccinated that qualify for it. So this might be an ongoing thing. and this is exactly (one of the reasons) WHY both of us opted to get the vaccines for our kids. so all of these other people can NOT and thats fine and they can be sent home every other week for 10 days, and as long as our kids remain healthy and show no signs of having it, they can keep carrying their happy little *kitten* to school. 21 -
Does anyone else feel a disconnect from the people around them? Cases are rising fast here; my county is back to High transmission status, but nobody is wearing a mask.
When I stopped to get gas yesterday, I looked at the man standing on the other side of the pump and tallied up how long he must have been there filling up his truck, how close I would be (less than six feet) and how transmissible Delta is - I put a mask on.12 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »I dont know if any of you are on my friends list, if so, you saw this yesterday afternoon, possibly. Yesterday afternoon I was out working in one of our barns and HAPPENED to have my phone on me (okay, I was also taking pics LOL- but truly, i dont USUALLY have my phone out there with me) and it was the school, saying my son had been exposed to covid and i needed to come get him NOW. What follows below tells the rest of the story. This is an email that I sent to one of the reporters that my best friend knows at our local paper. Bestie thought her reporter friend would be very interested in knowing the answer to the questions I (we both) had...
Hello,
You may find this as interesting and perplexing as myself and my best friend did. Between the two of us, we have three students at (school) High. All three are fully vaccinated, as are we. Today, on the third day of school, I received a call from the school nurse saying that my son had been in direct contact with someone with covid and I needed to come pick him up. I was in the middle of something, the nurse sounded a bit harried (which is to be expected) and I did not even think about this until I was on my way to the school. I had called my friend to see if she had also received the call. No, but she says... "Your son is fully vaccinated. Why are you having to pick him up? That's not what the State or CDC guidelines say." I had no answer. Hung up with her, called the school. "My son has been fully vaccinated. I don't remember ever being asked for this information. Would you like me to bring the card or a copy of it so he can stay in school?". After being out on hold for a brief moment, I was told that no, that the 'vaccines apparently were 'useless' and that it was a 10 day quarantine OR we could do a PCR test on September 12 and if negative, bring the results to the school and he could come back'.
I asked again at the school, why a fully vaccinated child had to leave, who was showing no symptoms, who wore a mask all day, and where the child who tested positive ALSO wore a mask all day. I just got shrugged shoulders in response.
My questions are:
When did this school policy change and why were parents not notified?
Why does school policy seem to override State or CDC Guidelines (again, without notification to parents). Is this just (school) or County-wide? An actual policy or knee jerk reaction?
Why does the school get to determine that a vaccine is or is not effective (and science has proven that having the vaccine lessens the chance of getting covid as well as decreases the intensity of it for the majority of people if you DO get it, even with the Delta variant). A school employee telling a parent they don't even KNOW, that a CDC approved vaccine is 'useless' is gross negligence as far as I am concerned, regardless of what that employee's personal feelings are on the matter.
and finally...
If TEACHERS or other staff are directly exposed, are THEY subject to a 10 day quarantine as well? If not... WHY? Because up until this point, the policy was that if they had been fully vaccinated and were showing no symptoms, that even if they had been exposed, they were still allowed (and I believe, expected) to work. If they are going to quarantine 40 students for being exposed to one positive student, but not a teacher who was ALSO exposed, what is the point of allowing the teacher to stay (or bus driver, or cafeteria worker, or janitor, etc) to, in theory, expose even more people? Where is the logic in that?
(end email)
I'm sure eventually my mind would have stumbled on all of these things but right when I got the call I was like 'hurry up and do what I'm doing (Yes I was taking pics but I was also doing other stuff out there LOL) and hurry up AND remember the dates the nurse gave me cause when I asked if she was sending home a letter with these dates she said NO thats why im calling, and i didnt exactly have paper and pen with me out in a BARN. so when i pulled out of my driveway and called bestie and she said that i was like 'oh damn. youre right! why didnt i think of that!' APPARENTLY it doesnt even matter and i would honestly be shocked (in the area that we live in) if even a half of these kids are vaccinated that qualify for it. So this might be an ongoing thing. and this is exactly (one of the reasons) WHY both of us opted to get the vaccines for our kids. so all of these other people can NOT and thats fine and they can be sent home every other week for 10 days, and as long as our kids remain healthy and show no signs of having it, they can keep carrying their happy little *kitten* to school.
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
6 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »I dont know if any of you are on my friends list, if so, you saw this yesterday afternoon, possibly. Yesterday afternoon I was out working in one of our barns and HAPPENED to have my phone on me (okay, I was also taking pics LOL- but truly, i dont USUALLY have my phone out there with me) and it was the school, saying my son had been exposed to covid and i needed to come get him NOW. What follows below tells the rest of the story. This is an email that I sent to one of the reporters that my best friend knows at our local paper. Bestie thought her reporter friend would be very interested in knowing the answer to the questions I (we both) had...
Hello,
You may find this as interesting and perplexing as myself and my best friend did. Between the two of us, we have three students at (school) High. All three are fully vaccinated, as are we. Today, on the third day of school, I received a call from the school nurse saying that my son had been in direct contact with someone with covid and I needed to come pick him up. I was in the middle of something, the nurse sounded a bit harried (which is to be expected) and I did not even think about this until I was on my way to the school. I had called my friend to see if she had also received the call. No, but she says... "Your son is fully vaccinated. Why are you having to pick him up? That's not what the State or CDC guidelines say." I had no answer. Hung up with her, called the school. "My son has been fully vaccinated. I don't remember ever being asked for this information. Would you like me to bring the card or a copy of it so he can stay in school?". After being out on hold for a brief moment, I was told that no, that the 'vaccines apparently were 'useless' and that it was a 10 day quarantine OR we could do a PCR test on September 12 and if negative, bring the results to the school and he could come back'.
I asked again at the school, why a fully vaccinated child had to leave, who was showing no symptoms, who wore a mask all day, and where the child who tested positive ALSO wore a mask all day. I just got shrugged shoulders in response.
My questions are:
When did this school policy change and why were parents not notified?
Why does school policy seem to override State or CDC Guidelines (again, without notification to parents). Is this just (school) or County-wide? An actual policy or knee jerk reaction?
Why does the school get to determine that a vaccine is or is not effective (and science has proven that having the vaccine lessens the chance of getting covid as well as decreases the intensity of it for the majority of people if you DO get it, even with the Delta variant). A school employee telling a parent they don't even KNOW, that a CDC approved vaccine is 'useless' is gross negligence as far as I am concerned, regardless of what that employee's personal feelings are on the matter.
and finally...
If TEACHERS or other staff are directly exposed, are THEY subject to a 10 day quarantine as well? If not... WHY? Because up until this point, the policy was that if they had been fully vaccinated and were showing no symptoms, that even if they had been exposed, they were still allowed (and I believe, expected) to work. If they are going to quarantine 40 students for being exposed to one positive student, but not a teacher who was ALSO exposed, what is the point of allowing the teacher to stay (or bus driver, or cafeteria worker, or janitor, etc) to, in theory, expose even more people? Where is the logic in that?
(end email)
I'm sure eventually my mind would have stumbled on all of these things but right when I got the call I was like 'hurry up and do what I'm doing (Yes I was taking pics but I was also doing other stuff out there LOL) and hurry up AND remember the dates the nurse gave me cause when I asked if she was sending home a letter with these dates she said NO thats why im calling, and i didnt exactly have paper and pen with me out in a BARN. so when i pulled out of my driveway and called bestie and she said that i was like 'oh damn. youre right! why didnt i think of that!' APPARENTLY it doesnt even matter and i would honestly be shocked (in the area that we live in) if even a half of these kids are vaccinated that qualify for it. So this might be an ongoing thing. and this is exactly (one of the reasons) WHY both of us opted to get the vaccines for our kids. so all of these other people can NOT and thats fine and they can be sent home every other week for 10 days, and as long as our kids remain healthy and show no signs of having it, they can keep carrying their happy little *kitten* to school.
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.9 -
If you read, she asked the school for an explanation first and received one which is in opposition to current CDC guidelines.Theoldguy1 wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »I dont know if any of you are on my friends list, if so, you saw this yesterday afternoon, possibly. Yesterday afternoon I was out working in one of our barns and HAPPENED to have my phone on me (okay, I was also taking pics LOL- but truly, i dont USUALLY have my phone out there with me) and it was the school, saying my son had been exposed to covid and i needed to come get him NOW. What follows below tells the rest of the story. This is an email that I sent to one of the reporters that my best friend knows at our local paper. Bestie thought her reporter friend would be very interested in knowing the answer to the questions I (we both) had...
Hello,
You may find this as interesting and perplexing as myself and my best friend did. Between the two of us, we have three students at (school) High. All three are fully vaccinated, as are we. Today, on the third day of school, I received a call from the school nurse saying that my son had been in direct contact with someone with covid and I needed to come pick him up. I was in the middle of something, the nurse sounded a bit harried (which is to be expected) and I did not even think about this until I was on my way to the school. I had called my friend to see if she had also received the call. No, but she says... "Your son is fully vaccinated. Why are you having to pick him up? That's not what the State or CDC guidelines say." I had no answer. Hung up with her, called the school. "My son has been fully vaccinated. I don't remember ever being asked for this information. Would you like me to bring the card or a copy of it so he can stay in school?". After being out on hold for a brief moment, I was told that no, that the 'vaccines apparently were 'useless' and that it was a 10 day quarantine OR we could do a PCR test on September 12 and if negative, bring the results to the school and he could come back'.
I asked again at the school, why a fully vaccinated child had to leave, who was showing no symptoms, who wore a mask all day, and where the child who tested positive ALSO wore a mask all day. I just got shrugged shoulders in response.
My questions are:
When did this school policy change and why were parents not notified?
Why does school policy seem to override State or CDC Guidelines (again, without notification to parents). Is this just (school) or County-wide? An actual policy or knee jerk reaction?
Why does the school get to determine that a vaccine is or is not effective (and science has proven that having the vaccine lessens the chance of getting covid as well as decreases the intensity of it for the majority of people if you DO get it, even with the Delta variant). A school employee telling a parent they don't even KNOW, that a CDC approved vaccine is 'useless' is gross negligence as far as I am concerned, regardless of what that employee's personal feelings are on the matter.
and finally...
If TEACHERS or other staff are directly exposed, are THEY subject to a 10 day quarantine as well? If not... WHY? Because up until this point, the policy was that if they had been fully vaccinated and were showing no symptoms, that even if they had been exposed, they were still allowed (and I believe, expected) to work. If they are going to quarantine 40 students for being exposed to one positive student, but not a teacher who was ALSO exposed, what is the point of allowing the teacher to stay (or bus driver, or cafeteria worker, or janitor, etc) to, in theory, expose even more people? Where is the logic in that?
(end email)
I'm sure eventually my mind would have stumbled on all of these things but right when I got the call I was like 'hurry up and do what I'm doing (Yes I was taking pics but I was also doing other stuff out there LOL) and hurry up AND remember the dates the nurse gave me cause when I asked if she was sending home a letter with these dates she said NO thats why im calling, and i didnt exactly have paper and pen with me out in a BARN. so when i pulled out of my driveway and called bestie and she said that i was like 'oh damn. youre right! why didnt i think of that!' APPARENTLY it doesnt even matter and i would honestly be shocked (in the area that we live in) if even a half of these kids are vaccinated that qualify for it. So this might be an ongoing thing. and this is exactly (one of the reasons) WHY both of us opted to get the vaccines for our kids. so all of these other people can NOT and thats fine and they can be sent home every other week for 10 days, and as long as our kids remain healthy and show no signs of having it, they can keep carrying their happy little *kitten* to school.
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Since the vaccine is only about 50% effective against infection, and infected vaccinated people are just as contagious, I’m not sure I don’t agree with the school. There’s some evidence that vaccinated people aren’t infectious unless they are also symptomatic but I consider parents completely untrustworthy when it comes to determining whether their children have symptoms and keeping them at home. About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
11 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
When my husband was a ranger pathfinder they downright experimented on him - didn’t ask permission, just told them the military was experimenting to see whether blood doping would improve physical performance at high altitude. Blood doping is pretty well understood today but was a new idea in 1988. Anyway I was surprised to learn that they didn’t require the vax until after approval since that didn’t seem to be a policy back in the day!
He also got shots for plague, yellow fever, and a bunch of other stuff people don’t usually get. It’s possible that you and your friend had a reaction to something other than the flu shot if you got stuff for some of the exotic diseases at the same time. Those shots lay you out flat for a whole day, they plan for it.5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »So, Tennessee is supposedly leading the nation in new Covid cases as a percentage of population. Ugh.
I’m posting because I was reading the local paper and noticed a new phenomenon - people who died of Covid because they were unvaccinated but their families are ashamed to admit it. At least I assume that’s what’s happening. A local pastor died and his fellow pastor said he “was uncomfortable revealing his vaccination status.” Okay - does that mean your church is full of anti-vaxxers and letting them know he was vaccinated would freak them out? Or, much more likely since vaccinated people rarely die, is it that you don’t want people saying, “I told you so?”
The other was a restaurant owner whose adult daughter claimed she “didn’t know her father’s vaccination status.” Well… if my father entered the hospital with Covid I would for sure ask! How could she possibly be telling the truth about this?
It seems to me most likely that both of these articles reveal a new phenomenon, people who don’t want to admit they did something stupid and Darwin’s hammer came down on their heads.
The schadenfreude is pretty potent on social media right now. There is a dedicated subreddit, for example, to posting several excerpts from someone's anti-vax Facebook timeline to a final post announcing their (usually awful and painful) death from COVID. They scrub the identifying components, of course, but someone in your town may figure it out.
Schadenfreude is an amazing word that I just learned of this year, and found it exceeding pertinent to the last 18 months. I even brought the word up to this group a couple months ago when I first learned of it.
I find it hard to comprehend though that people would participate in a subreddit of the sort that you are describing @oocdc2 . It's a sad statement of who we are becoming.
I read an article today that referred to vaxenfreude, meaning the feeling of pleasure that the vaccinated supposedly feel when they hear the unvaccinated have gotten covid and been hospitalized or died.
I suppose there are people that actually feel pleasure. For me, it's more an inability to feel compassion for them. I think many of us were are already at a point of compassion fatigue after reading just a small sampling of the first 500,000 who died in the U.S., or whatever the number is where one is, during 2020 when they had no vaccine option and in many or most cases were just trying to continue to be able to pay their rent or mortgage, utilities, etc., or possibly provide health care, first-responder services, and other essential services. My well of compassion is running pretty dry, and I feel inclined to reserve it for people who didn't essentially play Russian roulette with the virus while evincing zero sense of responsibility for protecting others. I'll feel compassion for a friend who, despite being vaccinated, ended up catching the virus, most likely from another vaccinated person, and was extremely sick for two weeks, and even had to go the emergency room.
Right now I’m having the same trouble feeling compassion for my husband’s stepbrother and his wife, who were vocal antivaxxers and are now on their third week of feeling really ill with Covid. On the one hand I hope they stay out of the hospital. On the other hand, they are both jerks, and they deserve this. They tried really hard to convince my husband’s father, a lung cancer survivor who just had an angioplasty, to not get the vaccine. I’m glad he listened to reason and got the vaccine, and I don’t feel at all kindly towards the stepson who tried hard to put his health at risk.
Seriously, if you have kids, how would you feel about a friend who told them seatbelts are for sissies, or a friend’s mother who said, “We are not a seatbelt family, on our carpool day seatbelts are not allowed in this car?” Even if your child survived I bet you wouldn’t want them to keep driving with that family, and if you heard they ended up in the hospital following an accident, what would you feel about it?19 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
I'm ex military as well and in 1990 got really sick immediately after the flu shot (and just that vaccine.) I didn't get the flu shot again until fall 2020, as it was very strongly encouraged by multiple medical professionals and I didn't want to need care for the flu while COVID was going on. I'm a side sleeper and had difficulty sleeping on that arm for a night or two, but that was it for symptoms.
I had a really bad reaction to the shingles vaccine earlier this year, but it was still better than getting shingles.
My COVID vax reaction was in between the two, but just some easily manageable fatigue for less than a full day and actually less sore of an arm than the flu shot.11 -
rheddmobile wrote: »
If you read, she asked the school for an explanation first and received one which is in opposition to current CDC guidelines.Theoldguy1 wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »I dont know if any of you are on my friends list, if so, you saw this yesterday afternoon, possibly. Yesterday afternoon I was out working in one of our barns and HAPPENED to have my phone on me (okay, I was also taking pics LOL- but truly, i dont USUALLY have my phone out there with me) and it was the school, saying my son had been exposed to covid and i needed to come get him NOW. What follows below tells the rest of the story. This is an email that I sent to one of the reporters that my best friend knows at our local paper. Bestie thought her reporter friend would be very interested in knowing the answer to the questions I (we both) had...
Hello,
You may find this as interesting and perplexing as myself and my best friend did. Between the two of us, we have three students at (school) High. All three are fully vaccinated, as are we. Today, on the third day of school, I received a call from the school nurse saying that my son had been in direct contact with someone with covid and I needed to come pick him up. I was in the middle of something, the nurse sounded a bit harried (which is to be expected) and I did not even think about this until I was on my way to the school. I had called my friend to see if she had also received the call. No, but she says... "Your son is fully vaccinated. Why are you having to pick him up? That's not what the State or CDC guidelines say." I had no answer. Hung up with her, called the school. "My son has been fully vaccinated. I don't remember ever being asked for this information. Would you like me to bring the card or a copy of it so he can stay in school?". After being out on hold for a brief moment, I was told that no, that the 'vaccines apparently were 'useless' and that it was a 10 day quarantine OR we could do a PCR test on September 12 and if negative, bring the results to the school and he could come back'.
I asked again at the school, why a fully vaccinated child had to leave, who was showing no symptoms, who wore a mask all day, and where the child who tested positive ALSO wore a mask all day. I just got shrugged shoulders in response.
My questions are:
When did this school policy change and why were parents not notified?
Why does school policy seem to override State or CDC Guidelines (again, without notification to parents). Is this just (school) or County-wide? An actual policy or knee jerk reaction?
Why does the school get to determine that a vaccine is or is not effective (and science has proven that having the vaccine lessens the chance of getting covid as well as decreases the intensity of it for the majority of people if you DO get it, even with the Delta variant). A school employee telling a parent they don't even KNOW, that a CDC approved vaccine is 'useless' is gross negligence as far as I am concerned, regardless of what that employee's personal feelings are on the matter.
and finally...
If TEACHERS or other staff are directly exposed, are THEY subject to a 10 day quarantine as well? If not... WHY? Because up until this point, the policy was that if they had been fully vaccinated and were showing no symptoms, that even if they had been exposed, they were still allowed (and I believe, expected) to work. If they are going to quarantine 40 students for being exposed to one positive student, but not a teacher who was ALSO exposed, what is the point of allowing the teacher to stay (or bus driver, or cafeteria worker, or janitor, etc) to, in theory, expose even more people? Where is the logic in that?
(end email)
I'm sure eventually my mind would have stumbled on all of these things but right when I got the call I was like 'hurry up and do what I'm doing (Yes I was taking pics but I was also doing other stuff out there LOL) and hurry up AND remember the dates the nurse gave me cause when I asked if she was sending home a letter with these dates she said NO thats why im calling, and i didnt exactly have paper and pen with me out in a BARN. so when i pulled out of my driveway and called bestie and she said that i was like 'oh damn. youre right! why didnt i think of that!' APPARENTLY it doesnt even matter and i would honestly be shocked (in the area that we live in) if even a half of these kids are vaccinated that qualify for it. So this might be an ongoing thing. and this is exactly (one of the reasons) WHY both of us opted to get the vaccines for our kids. so all of these other people can NOT and thats fine and they can be sent home every other week for 10 days, and as long as our kids remain healthy and show no signs of having it, they can keep carrying their happy little *kitten* to school.
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Since the vaccine is only about 50% effective against infection, and infected vaccinated people are just as contagious, I’m not sure I don’t agree with the school. There’s some evidence that vaccinated people aren’t infectious unless they are also symptomatic but I consider parents completely untrustworthy when it comes to determining whether their children have symptoms and keeping them at home. About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.12 -
UK, the Cricket series between Us and India has been brought to an early end. Because of Covid in the support team in the Indian side. The decision to withdraw was only taken 2 hours before the game was to start which I agree is short notice. I feel the team should be able to act in the interests of anyone in that team be they players or the back room people. India did not feel they could be sure there would be no more transmission on the field. The players were pcr tested and had not tested positive but close contact and all..................
Now Spectators are being filmed complaining of all the inconvenience it has caused them. Having to try to cancel tonight's accommodation, and the waste of their travel time and and fairs etc. I understand the tickets will be refunded. Yes its a pain but to me is worth the risk of passing covid to anyone. I think they said 80% of us are now fully vaccinated but it carries no guarantee that you won't get it, only that your chances of surviving it are so much better, but the jury is out again because of the Delta Variant.5 -
LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »I dont know if any of you are on my friends list, if so, you saw this yesterday afternoon, possibly. Yesterday afternoon I was out working in one of our barns and HAPPENED to have my phone on me (okay, I was also taking pics LOL- but truly, i dont USUALLY have my phone out there with me) and it was the school, saying my son had been exposed to covid and i needed to come get him NOW. What follows below tells the rest of the story. This is an email that I sent to one of the reporters that my best friend knows at our local paper. Bestie thought her reporter friend would be very interested in knowing the answer to the questions I (we both) had...
Hello,
You may find this as interesting and perplexing as myself and my best friend did. Between the two of us, we have three students at (school) High. All three are fully vaccinated, as are we. Today, on the third day of school, I received a call from the school nurse saying that my son had been in direct contact with someone with covid and I needed to come pick him up. I was in the middle of something, the nurse sounded a bit harried (which is to be expected) and I did not even think about this until I was on my way to the school. I had called my friend to see if she had also received the call. No, but she says... "Your son is fully vaccinated. Why are you having to pick him up? That's not what the State or CDC guidelines say." I had no answer. Hung up with her, called the school. "My son has been fully vaccinated. I don't remember ever being asked for this information. Would you like me to bring the card or a copy of it so he can stay in school?". After being out on hold for a brief moment, I was told that no, that the 'vaccines apparently were 'useless' and that it was a 10 day quarantine OR we could do a PCR test on September 12 and if negative, bring the results to the school and he could come back'.
I asked again at the school, why a fully vaccinated child had to leave, who was showing no symptoms, who wore a mask all day, and where the child who tested positive ALSO wore a mask all day. I just got shrugged shoulders in response.
My questions are:
When did this school policy change and why were parents not notified?
Why does school policy seem to override State or CDC Guidelines (again, without notification to parents). Is this just (school) or County-wide? An actual policy or knee jerk reaction?
Why does the school get to determine that a vaccine is or is not effective (and science has proven that having the vaccine lessens the chance of getting covid as well as decreases the intensity of it for the majority of people if you DO get it, even with the Delta variant). A school employee telling a parent they don't even KNOW, that a CDC approved vaccine is 'useless' is gross negligence as far as I am concerned, regardless of what that employee's personal feelings are on the matter.
and finally...
If TEACHERS or other staff are directly exposed, are THEY subject to a 10 day quarantine as well? If not... WHY? Because up until this point, the policy was that if they had been fully vaccinated and were showing no symptoms, that even if they had been exposed, they were still allowed (and I believe, expected) to work. If they are going to quarantine 40 students for being exposed to one positive student, but not a teacher who was ALSO exposed, what is the point of allowing the teacher to stay (or bus driver, or cafeteria worker, or janitor, etc) to, in theory, expose even more people? Where is the logic in that?
(end email)
I'm sure eventually my mind would have stumbled on all of these things but right when I got the call I was like 'hurry up and do what I'm doing (Yes I was taking pics but I was also doing other stuff out there LOL) and hurry up AND remember the dates the nurse gave me cause when I asked if she was sending home a letter with these dates she said NO thats why im calling, and i didnt exactly have paper and pen with me out in a BARN. so when i pulled out of my driveway and called bestie and she said that i was like 'oh damn. youre right! why didnt i think of that!' APPARENTLY it doesnt even matter and i would honestly be shocked (in the area that we live in) if even a half of these kids are vaccinated that qualify for it. So this might be an ongoing thing. and this is exactly (one of the reasons) WHY both of us opted to get the vaccines for our kids. so all of these other people can NOT and thats fine and they can be sent home every other week for 10 days, and as long as our kids remain healthy and show no signs of having it, they can keep carrying their happy little *kitten* to school.
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
At my workplace, it doesn't matter if someone has been exposed (vaccinated or not), they have to come to work unless they are having symptoms. That is what HR says when someone has been exposed to someone outside of work. But when we had a bunch of people exposed at work, HR demanded they all take the day off and get tested before returning. Sometimes these inconsistent policies are frustrating. Even worse, they don't actually help minimize transmission.20 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
My work started Biden's policy August 1 on our own. Unvaxed employees must submit the email they receive from the testing site, either positive or negative to HR not later than noon on Monday. If HR hasn't received the email by the start of business Monday morning, the employee is required to stay home and use their PTO until the email is received.
If it's not received by noon...like literally if it's 12:01, the employee receives a "strike" and is required to stay home and use their leave the rest of the day and until the email is received by HR as well as a verbal reprimand and reminder of the protocols and consequences for breaking those protocols. A second "strike" results in a two day unpaid suspension and a formal written reprimand to be placed in the employees file. A third "strike" is immediate termination of employment.
Employees are given 1 hour of leave during the work week to go get tested. In the beginning, many of them were waiting until Friday and knocking off an hour early to go get tested. A couple weeks after we implemented, it became mandatory for educators to do the same and other companies in town also adopted making test sites once again relatively busy and getting results went from 24 hours or less to now about 72+ hours, so quite a few people ended up with a strike. They fought it of course, saying they have no control over how long the results take...the response was pretty much that there's no requirement to wait until the end of the day on Friday to test.
17 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.4 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to10 -
I just can't imagine what kind of nightmare this is going to turn into for certain industries to try and enforce this. I used to work for a large trucking company, and many of the truckers would go on the road for weeks at a time. They wouldn't have access to testing sites while on the road, and that demographic seems to have a large overlap with the anti-vax, so will all the drivers jump ship and go work for smaller transportation firms that are exempt from the regulations? It will be interesting to see how the economics of it all plays out.6
-
cwolfman13 wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.
As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.
Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to
Yes, and I think that while some people may feel okay using a fake vaccine card to, say, get into a concert...the same people might be very hesitant to submit one officially to their employer. The consequences of getting caught would be much greater.
Just like some people would use a fake ID to get into a bar while underage...but wouldn't try to use one for getting on an airplane.12 -
SummerSkier wrote: »the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.
I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.
She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.
Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
I'm not certain of this, but I think some states already had some kind of central record of these, through the health departments somehow. I can't prove it, but my impression was that my state (Michigan) was checking people who signed up for the "I got vaxed" lottery against some central data repository, making sure the entrants were really vaxed. Not positive, though.
Whether employers would be able to validate against those records or not is a separate question. (Note that in at least some places they can do background checks, criminal records checks, I think validate drivers' licenses, for sure can validate other licenses, etc. I'm not saying I think states would turn over some central vax database to employers (if it exists) but that there might be a portal for authorized entities to provide identification and vax info, get back a "real" or "no" indication.)4 -
LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.8 -
callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
I am a high school teacher. I had a student who was in my classroom who has tested positive for Covid. He is out of course. Because I am fully vaccinated and also have no symptoms, I do not need to quarantine. At the high school, we are not requiring masks for anyone, but a fair number of students choose to wear them and some teachers too. Wearing a mask does not affect if a person needs to quarantine with close contact in our school.
Our state does mandate all students and staff to wear masksTheoldguy1 wrote: »
The school doesn't need parents running to newspaper without letting the administration calmly explaining the situation to you and if needed sending a clarification email out to the parents.
They have enough to do without being bugged by a local paper.
Well, maybe if they had answered my questions (to TWO different employees) or followed their OWN policies, I would not have.rheddmobile wrote: »About the second time some parent said, “Oh, we knew he had the sniffles but he has fall allergies,” or, “We gave her a Tylenol to bring her fever down because I can’t take time off work to stay with her,” I also would be changing the policy to say all exposed students are treated as symptomatic until proven otherwise.
Do that and at any given time, you will be having over half the school out waiting for covid tests to come back.Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Saw that. She needed to have some additional discussion/clarification with the school.
My wife was a supervisor for a special ed district when this all started. They were getting updates on procedures from the state government, regional office of education, seeing things on the news often not the exact same thing.
Got to remember nobody in the school is an expert on handling a pandemic. Need to cut them some slack, they are trying to do the right thing.
Doing the best they can - all they need to do is follow their OWN school system guidelines. Which they were NOT.
INTERESTINGLY enough... my best friend received a call from the school this morning telling HER to come pick up HER children. She flat out refused. Said that they had been vaccinated and that unless they were displaying symptoms, that THEY were in violation of their OWN policy by demanding that she pick them up. That she would be more than happy to bring them a copy of their vaccine card for their records and provide that information.
She was told to email a copy of it to a certain person at the main office, and her children remained in school.
Guess whose son will be in school Monday morning? Unless of course, he seems to get sick between now and then, or is running a temperature. I will check. But assuming all is well, I will email that person, and take him to school a bit late. With a copy of the card as well.
Sounds to me like there's a consistency problem. Employees don't seem to know what the policy is. They need a straightforward plan that is made clear to all and consistently followed.
It's not OK if school officials are negotiating terms with some parents and steamrolling others. Seems that pushier parents are being allowed to email vax cards and keep their kids in class if they insist, while more passive parents are picking their kids up and quarantining, even though the situation is the same. I guess if there isn't a "difficult" parent putting pressure on them, it's easier to just send everyone home and not have to deal.
This is incompetent management. The implementation needs to be equitable. Either all the vaxxed are offered opportunity to prove status and stay in school, or all go home and quarantine. Pick a policy and stick with it.13
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