Coronavirus prep
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We got our first shot in March, the second in early April, at our pharmacy. Moderna. Both shots we received hand outs. My husband got blood clots in his left knee, that traveled to his lungs, in late May, and was hospitalized for 5 days. The specialist did say it “may have” been a result of the vaccine, but that was not specified as the cause.
For those of us that live in the US, we see commercials on tv every day for prescription drugs, and vaccines, that go through a list of possible side affects from taking the drug, or vaccine. Point being, there’s no drug that is 100% safe for everyone, neither prescription or over the counter medications. The benefits, in the majority of people, outweigh the risk.
Almost 680,000 deaths in the US. The deadliest disease in US history. Pretty grave statistic.11 -
I signed up for the vaccine on line and there was a form I was supposed to read that had all the info about the meaning of "approved for emergency use" and potential side effects. Then when I went to the site I signed a paper with the same info which they kept.
I got a sticker too
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missysippy930 wrote: »
snip
Almost 680,000 deaths in the US. The deadliest disease in US history. Pretty grave statistic.
Can anyone imagine what the current death toll would be if we were in the same situation now as in 1918 regarding vaccines and effective treatments?10 -
rheddmobile wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »In passenger seat and skipped over much of above, but will go back later. I will describe the experience of good friends which I do find concerning.
Husband got his second Moderna shot. That night, he got sick. You can debate whether related or not. Description used words like paralysis, but nurse wife ultimately labeled if seizure. Brought to er and admitted. Tests done. Wife asked for antibody assessment several times, out of concern of vaccine reaction. Was refused. Was told no proof of causality and “not on list”. IMO if one never examines an oddly timed illness for consideration of association, then how does it ever get on the list. And if only items on the list get considered, then new problems are never identified. Anyhow, assuming this was all described to me accurately, I find it concerning and makes me wonder about all kinds on claims.
Quick edit: this gentleman also had confirmed COVID Xmas 2020.
If he had the vaccine recently, you would expect him to have antibodies. How would that remotely qualify as evidence that the vaccination caused the stroke?
Blood clots are one of the known and recognized side effects of these vaccines, some manufacturers more than others. Don't act like it's so far outside the realm of possibility.
I'm not. I'm questioning what the implication of being refused an antibody test is supposed to be. There doesn't seem to be any question of whether he had the vaccine. What would screening for antibodies prove? It's irrelevant but is included in the anecdote as though it shows some malfeasance on the part of the medical team.
I’m pretty sure this is just confusion on the part of someone who’s not a medical expert. There are different kinds of antibodies. Testing for antibodies against the coronavirus would, as you said, be pointless since they would be expected in someone who had received the vaccine. However, in someone having an autoimmune reaction to a vaccine, a test will reveal antibodies against their own body’s neural cells, called antigangliocide antibodies. It would be quite reasonable to ask for such a test, especially since the wife was a medical professional, and not outside the realm of possibility for a small hospital’s ER to be staffed with dummies who refused it, since Guillain-Barre is pretty rare and one of those things that gets misdiagnosed by doctors who aren’t looking for it.
In any case, it has nothing to do with blood clots, which is a whole different thing. Testing for antibodies would not reveal whether a blood clot that caused a stroke was the result of the vaccine, there is no simple test for that. And finding that a blood clot caused a stroke would mean that it wasn’t Guillain-Barre.
@rheddmobile I sincerely appreciate your efforts to address the anecdote I shared, and unfortunately I can only share what I was told, and did not, not do not, have the knowledge you all have to ask more specific questions. IMM, what I assumed I was being told is that the husband's symptoms, per the friend's analysis, pointed to an overload of COVID antibodies and thus causing the reaction. So to me, the idea of asking to test COVID antibodies to see if they were inappropriately high would have made sense. From what you have said above, it sounds like my thoughts/assumptions make no sense. Is that correct that natural infection plus two vaccinations could not produce nor show (through testing) an unhealthy level of COVID antibodies?
An overload of antibodies against an illness isn’t really a thing. As long as the antibodies are targeting the virus, having a lot of them is what’s supposed to happen. Antibodies are specific and don’t attack anything except the thing they target. There can be a problem if antibodies mistakenly attack some other cells of the body, which is what’s called an autoimmune response.
It sounds like you may have heard something about a cytokine storm, which is an inflammatory response within the body where cytokines are overproduced and attack everything. A cytokine isn’t an antibody, it’s a type of protein. Cytokine storms are a common way for people to die from covid but aren’t normally a response to vaccination - I looked briefly and didn’t see any info on this as a known side effect.12 -
rheddmobile wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »In passenger seat and skipped over much of above, but will go back later. I will describe the experience of good friends which I do find concerning.
Husband got his second Moderna shot. That night, he got sick. You can debate whether related or not. Description used words like paralysis, but nurse wife ultimately labeled if seizure. Brought to er and admitted. Tests done. Wife asked for antibody assessment several times, out of concern of vaccine reaction. Was refused. Was told no proof of causality and “not on list”. IMO if one never examines an oddly timed illness for consideration of association, then how does it ever get on the list. And if only items on the list get considered, then new problems are never identified. Anyhow, assuming this was all described to me accurately, I find it concerning and makes me wonder about all kinds on claims.
Quick edit: this gentleman also had confirmed COVID Xmas 2020.
If he had the vaccine recently, you would expect him to have antibodies. How would that remotely qualify as evidence that the vaccination caused the stroke?
Blood clots are one of the known and recognized side effects of these vaccines, some manufacturers more than others. Don't act like it's so far outside the realm of possibility.
I'm not. I'm questioning what the implication of being refused an antibody test is supposed to be. There doesn't seem to be any question of whether he had the vaccine. What would screening for antibodies prove? It's irrelevant but is included in the anecdote as though it shows some malfeasance on the part of the medical team.
I’m pretty sure this is just confusion on the part of someone who’s not a medical expert. There are different kinds of antibodies. Testing for antibodies against the coronavirus would, as you said, be pointless since they would be expected in someone who had received the vaccine. However, in someone having an autoimmune reaction to a vaccine, a test will reveal antibodies against their own body’s neural cells, called antigangliocide antibodies. It would be quite reasonable to ask for such a test, especially since the wife was a medical professional, and not outside the realm of possibility for a small hospital’s ER to be staffed with dummies who refused it, since Guillain-Barre is pretty rare and one of those things that gets misdiagnosed by doctors who aren’t looking for it.
In any case, it has nothing to do with blood clots, which is a whole different thing. Testing for antibodies would not reveal whether a blood clot that caused a stroke was the result of the vaccine, there is no simple test for that. And finding that a blood clot caused a stroke would mean that it wasn’t Guillain-Barre.
@rheddmobile I sincerely appreciate your efforts to address the anecdote I shared, and unfortunately I can only share what I was told, and did not, not do not, have the knowledge you all have to ask more specific questions. IMM, what I assumed I was being told is that the husband's symptoms, per the friend's analysis, pointed to an overload of COVID antibodies and thus causing the reaction. So to me, the idea of asking to test COVID antibodies to see if they were inappropriately high would have made sense. From what you have said above, it sounds like my thoughts/assumptions make no sense. Is that correct that natural infection plus two vaccinations could not produce nor show (through testing) an unhealthy level of COVID antibodies?
An overload of antibodies against an illness isn’t really a thing. As long as the antibodies are targeting the virus, having a lot of them is what’s supposed to happen. Antibodies are specific and don’t attack anything except the thing they target. There can be a problem if antibodies mistakenly attack some other cells of the body, which is what’s called an autoimmune response.
It sounds like you may have heard something about a cytokine storm, which is an inflammatory response within the body where cytokines are overproduced and attack everything. A cytokine isn’t an antibody, it’s a type of protein. Cytokine storms are a common way for people to die from covid but aren’t normally a response to vaccination - I looked briefly and didn’t see any info on this as a known side effect.
@rheddmobile I don't remember the word cytokine used. If there is an appropriate moment, maybe I will reach back out to my friend for clarification. Thanks for the further explanation about antibodies.
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I'm in the US. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a drive-through run by a local hospital system. In the line of cars before the first shot, we were given a written handout that included information about side effects. There was enough time in the line to read that handout, i.e., it wasn't right at the check-in where the shot was administered.
I can't remember where I put it (or even whether I kept it). From memory, I think it mentioned only the more common side effects, but included something about where to get more information. At the time, again from memory, I think some of the very rare but serious side effects had not yet been identified/confirmed (like the blood clots).
I'm not doubting Lynn's account in the slightest, just saying that - as with so many things - experiences in different parts of the US, maybe even experiences with different vaccine providers in the same area, will have been different.
We're weird that way over here, folks in other places with central administration of these things.
Yes, we are. When said at the pop-up vax site I went to "in the U.S.," I didn't mean to imply that my experience would reflect all experiences in the U.S. Was just trying to say my experience was different from the person I was responding to, who I think is in the U.K.3 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »In Washington State. I got my vaccines at a local grocery store pharmacy. I was given a paper to read and sign. I don’t think I was given anything to take home but I might have and just tossed it.
My husband got his shots at the VA in Seattle. Same thing. But he also got a sticker.
An I Got Vaxed sticker, like an I Voted sticker? Now I'm jealous.5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I'm in the US. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a drive-through run by a local hospital system. In the line of cars before the first shot, we were given a written handout that included information about side effects. There was enough time in the line to read that handout, i.e., it wasn't right at the check-in where the shot was administered.
I can't remember where I put it (or even whether I kept it). From memory, I think it mentioned only the more common side effects, but included something about where to get more information. At the time, again from memory, I think some of the very rare but serious side effects had not yet been identified/confirmed (like the blood clots).
I'm not doubting Lynn's account in the slightest, just saying that - as with so many things - experiences in different parts of the US, maybe even experiences with different vaccine providers in the same area, will have been different.
We're weird that way over here, folks in other places with central administration of these things.
Yes, we are. When said at the pop-up vax site I went to "in the U.S.," I didn't mean to imply that my experience would reflect all experiences in the U.S. Was just trying to say my experience was different from the person I was responding to, who I think is in the U.K.
Oh, yes, of course - I understand. I was just trying to expand on the messy diversity of US experience.
Also, I got a sticker . . . so I am *extra* cool. 🤣
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »I'm in the US. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a drive-through run by a local hospital system. In the line of cars before the first shot, we were given a written handout that included information about side effects. There was enough time in the line to read that handout, i.e., it wasn't right at the check-in where the shot was administered.
I can't remember where I put it (or even whether I kept it). From memory, I think it mentioned only the more common side effects, but included something about where to get more information. At the time, again from memory, I think some of the very rare but serious side effects had not yet been identified/confirmed (like the blood clots).
I'm not doubting Lynn's account in the slightest, just saying that - as with so many things - experiences in different parts of the US, maybe even experiences with different vaccine providers in the same area, will have been different.
We're weird that way over here, folks in other places with central administration of these things.
Yes, we are. When said at the pop-up vax site I went to "in the U.S.," I didn't mean to imply that my experience would reflect all experiences in the U.S. Was just trying to say my experience was different from the person I was responding to, who I think is in the U.K.
Oh, yes, of course - I understand. I was just trying to expand on the messy diversity of US experience.
Also, I got a sticker . . . so I am *extra* cool. 🤣
Have I showed y’all my vaccine card holder?
It hangs nicely on my bag.
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »I personally know no one in my life who has died from covid.
I have personal connections to two people who died from the covid vaccine.
Please be respectful of this when pushing the vaccine or denigrating those who choose not to take it.
The thing is, I don’t believe you, because so few people around the world have died following the vaccine that for a single person to know two of them is astronomically unlikely.
Exactly!
Not comfortable with calling each other liars here. We may have differing opinions, but I go in with the premise that, especially when people are making personal statements, they are telling the truth.
Spokesperson for the CDC stated just a week ago, "To date, CDC has not detected any unusual or unexpected patterns for deaths following immunization that would indicate that COVID vaccines are causing or contributing to deaths, outside of the 3 confirmed deaths following the Janssen vaccine."
For the poster to have known 2 of the 3 people who have died in the US from getting the vaccine seems like a stretch to me. I'm going to have to differ in opinion on this.
The poster who is claiming they know 2 people who have died from the COVID vaccine may be relying on VAERS, which is notoriously bad. As in claiming someone who dies in an auto accident a day or two after getting a vaccine is a vaccine related death.
Dying in an auto accident after getting a vaccine is tragic. But it’s not a result of the vaccine.
Coming back to this comment because I just got home from an appointment with a naturopathic doctor. She asked if I have been vaccinated. When I said yes she was relieved because she has to work very hard to convince many of her patients that vaccines are OK.
She’s up to date on the actual science, and is extremely frustrated with people who are refusing to get vaccinated.
And if a kitten NATUROPATHIC doctor is saying the COVID vaccines are safe?
Seriously. Game. Set. Match.
Get your jab.20 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Alabama man dies after being turned away from 43 hospitals as Covid packs ICUs, family says
When Ray DeMonia was having a cardiac emergency last month, his Alabama family waited anxiously for a nearby hospital with available space in its intensive care unit.
But in a state where coronavirus infections and unvaccinated patients have overwhelmed hospitals in recent months, finding an available ICU bed was an ordeal. It was so difficult, his family wrote this month, that the hospital in his hometown of Cullman, Ala., contacted 43 others in three states — and all were unable to give him the care he needed.
DeMonia, who was eventually transferred to a Mississippi hospital about 200 miles away, died at 73 on Sept. 1 — three days shy of his birthday.
Raven DeMonia, his daughter, told The Washington Post on Sunday that it was “shocking” when the family was told that dozens of ICUs were unable to treat her father.
“It was like, ‘What do you mean?’ ” she said when she found out her father was being airlifted to a Mississippi hospital. “I never thought this would happen to us.”
Now, in DeMonia’s obituary, his family is urging those who remain unvaccinated to get immunized to help hospitals that have been pushed to their limits and struggling to treat emergencies not related to the pandemic. His daughter told The Post he was vaccinated against the coronavirus.
“In honor of Ray, please get vaccinated if you have not, in an effort to free up resources for non COVID related emergencies,” the family wrote. “He would not want any other family to go through what his did.”
And another one.
A Texas veteran in his 40’s. Got a gall stone with a complication. No beds. So he died.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/
This makes me angry.10 -
we live in virginia. my husband and I receive most of our healthcare in NC. we were vaccinated at a drive through clinic provided by our PCP in march. we received handouts regarding side effects and potential issues at the time of vaccination.
my son was vaccinated here in VA in june? right when the vaccine was approved for kids. At a drugstore. We signed up online. I dont recall getting a handout but I imagine we did?2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I'm in the US. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a drive-through run by a local hospital system. In the line of cars before the first shot, we were given a written handout that included information about side effects. There was enough time in the line to read that handout, i.e., it wasn't right at the check-in where the shot was administered.
I can't remember where I put it (or even whether I kept it). From memory, I think it mentioned only the more common side effects, but included something about where to get more information. At the time, again from memory, I think some of the very rare but serious side effects had not yet been identified/confirmed (like the blood clots).
I'm not doubting Lynn's account in the slightest, just saying that - as with so many things - experiences in different parts of the US, maybe even experiences with different vaccine providers in the same area, will have been different.
We're weird that way over here, folks in other places with central administration of these things.
Yes, we are. When said at the pop-up vax site I went to "in the U.S.," I didn't mean to imply that my experience would reflect all experiences in the U.S. Was just trying to say my experience was different from the person I was responding to, who I think is in the U.K.
Oh, yes, of course - I understand. I was just trying to expand on the messy diversity of US experience.
Same here, as well as the UK poster's claim that vaccine hesitancy in the US is because we aren't as "lucky" to get hard copy side effects sheets as those in the UK -- which is both untrue as a generalization about the US (and they are available online even for those who did not get them in hardcopy, generally where one would have signed up for the earlier vaxx appointments when they weren't available at every pharmacy -- and a rather odd conclusion IMO.5 -
Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............2
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »I'm in the US. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a drive-through run by a local hospital system. In the line of cars before the first shot, we were given a written handout that included information about side effects. There was enough time in the line to read that handout, i.e., it wasn't right at the check-in where the shot was administered.
I can't remember where I put it (or even whether I kept it). From memory, I think it mentioned only the more common side effects, but included something about where to get more information. At the time, again from memory, I think some of the very rare but serious side effects had not yet been identified/confirmed (like the blood clots).
I'm not doubting Lynn's account in the slightest, just saying that - as with so many things - experiences in different parts of the US, maybe even experiences with different vaccine providers in the same area, will have been different.
We're weird that way over here, folks in other places with central administration of these things.
Yes, we are. When said at the pop-up vax site I went to "in the U.S.," I didn't mean to imply that my experience would reflect all experiences in the U.S. Was just trying to say my experience was different from the person I was responding to, who I think is in the U.K.
Oh, yes, of course - I understand. I was just trying to expand on the messy diversity of US experience.
Also, I got a sticker . . . so I am *extra* cool. 🤣
I got a handout but no sticker
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Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............
Those who sign up online obviously have access to a smartphone or computer. The site I went to early on was online sign-up, so I didn't even think about looking for a sheet about side effects since it had been provided when I signed up. I think they did hand me something (I don't recall for sure since I didn't bother looking at it and tossed it later) and they made us wait after to make sure no immediate allergic reaction, and of course one could ask questions of the people there.
I also seriously doubt that anyone who wanted one couldn't ask for one either, but -- more significantly -- the idea that people are vaccine hesitant since hard copies of the warnings are not obviously available for the taking at some (I would bet very few) sites when people went to the sites after having already decided to get the vax makes absolutely no sense.
Those who got the vax at pharmacies (as is more common now since they are available there and have been for months, of course) seem to be saying the sheet is provided, as is the case IME with other vaccines at the pharmacy.6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »
Of the three 80's+ individuals in our family, only one has a smart phone. As for library, in our town, the library was by pickup only for most of COVID so certainly their computers were useless to people during those times, and that is if people were even willing to go out into a public space like the library.
That said, all three of those people happen to be fully vaccinated so they did get the information they needed in order to decide to get themselves vaccinated.3 -
So, you are happy for 15% of your population to be disadvantaged! Their lives are expected to be lesser? Disadvantage is not necessarily the same as being lazy or inadequate, or having a disability, it can can be down to circumstances beyond their control, being in the wrong place at the wrong time leading to low disposable incomes. These people should have access to good information too and not just about vaccines. It is possible some of these people will have someone who will do research for them, but by no means all. Seems like, devil take the hindmost. Similar to the attitude towards the less developed countries and for the record, I don't like the divisiveness we have here either.2
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What is the argument about handouts? I think we're barking up the wrong tree here. I don't think anyone is influenced either way due to a paper handout. I got one along with some other paperwork, and most people just tossed everything in the trash on their way out.
People who have questions about the vaccine, but don't have internet access, can do it the old-fashioned way and call their doctor.15 -
So, you are happy for 15% of your population to be disadvantaged!
Not sure what you are talking about here. Because they (allegedly, I haven't checked the figures) don't have computers or smartphones? Like kshama said, computers are available in various public places like libraries (and were made available in a homeless shelter I've volunteered at) and when we had virtual school my city made a huge effort to provide all school kids with iPads if they didn't have them (our local public school system is high percentage lower income).
Or do you mean something covid related? I don't believe we've identified any way that people without smartphone or computers are disadvantaged in connection with covid currently.These people should have access to good information too and not just about vaccines.
And they do. As many people pointed out, hard copy warnings/information sheets re the vaccines are commonly provided, and presumably more so at places where they weren't necessarily provided online when one signed up. And while the US is quite varied, I suspect that if you ask for a hard copy sheet most places that didn't routinely have them available (often probably bc sign up was online so online access had been provided) would give you one even if they weren't routinely doing so. I also know that my city has done special outreach since the beginning of vaccine availability to poorer areas of the city (and less white areas of the city), as well as to older folks from less advantaged backgrounds (some 70-y-o doctor in the wealthier burbs usually didn't need such outreach, of course), and that includes providing information in depth about the vaccine, so your knee jerk assumption that people in the US generally -- and especially those who are vaccine hesitant -- are such because hard copy warnings aren't available at vaccine sites (which I don't think is widely true even if it is possible that at the occasional site one for some reason couldn't access them) makes no sense, again. My personal suspicion is that vaccine hesitancy tends to be more associated with internet rabbit holes that push conspiracy theories and fear-mongering about the vaccine than a lack of access to the internet or whether or not sites one visits after deciding to get vaxxed have hard copy sheets about side effects available.
It also strikes me that you are often very quick to interpret anything that is said about the US in the worst possible and stereotypical way.14 -
Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............
The majority of people in the US signed up for their vaccine appointment online (75-80%-ish) Some people who don't use computers (such as some of my older techno-phobic relatives) had their children or friends/others sign up for them online. Those people who had someone else sign up for them online probably didn't see the side effect info, unless they went to a site for the shot - like I did - where even those who signed up online got an info sheet.
Details about the technology issues with sign up, from a well-known mainstream research organization:
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2021/09/01/the-role-of-technology-in-covid-19-vaccine-registration/
I feel like you have an inaccurate, incomplete understanding of the circumstances in the US, in this situation, perhaps based on hearing reports of the less well-handled cases and believing those stories are representative.
It's been very far from perfect, but there's just no basis for anyone saying that vaccine hesitancy is because people don't get vaccine side effect info when they go to get the vaccine . . . that doesn't even really hang together as a theory. People who are hesitant or resistant to getting the vaccines are not going to the vaccine sites, so giving everyone there an handout wouldn't be all that helpful against hesitancy, would it? (Extensive other communication measures have been used, including some coverage of common side effects on radio, TV, social media, via community centers, churches that aren't anti-vax, senior citizen organizations, etc.)
In fact, people here are so well-informed about allllll the side effects that in addition to knowing about actual side effects, they even "know" about side effects that don't actually exist. (<= That's a joke, but very dark, sadly not false.)
The semi-organized spreading of false information about the vaccines is one quite major factor causing vaccine hesitance or resistance here . . . though it's not the only cause of hesitancy.14 -
Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............
The majority of people in the US signed up for their vaccine appointment online (75-80%-ish) Some people who don't use computers (such as some of my older techno-phobic relatives) had their children or friends/others sign up for them online. Those people who had someone else sign up for them online probably didn't see the side effect info, unless they went to a site - like I did - where even those who signed up online got an info sheet.
Details about the technology issues with sign up, from a well-known mainstream research organization:
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2021/09/01/the-role-of-technology-in-covid-19-vaccine-registration/
I feel like you have an inaccurate, incomplete understanding of the circumstances in the US, in this situation, perhaps based on hearing reports of the less well-handled cases and believing those stories are representative.
It's been very far from perfect, but there's just no basis for anyone saying that vaccine hesitancy is because people don't get vaccine side effect info when they go to get the vaccine . . . that doesn't even really hang together as a theory. People who are hesitant or resistant to getting the vaccines are not going to the vaccine sites, so giving everyone there an handout wouldn't be all that helpful against hesitancy, would it? (Extensive other communication measures have been used, including some coverage of common side effects on radio, TV, social media, via community centers, churches that aren't anti-vax, senior citizen organizations, etc.)
In fact, people here are so well-informed about allllll the side effects that in addition to knowing about actual side effects, they even "know" about side effects that don't actually exist. (<= That's a joke, but very dark, sadly not false.)
The semi-organized spreading of false information about the vaccines is one quite major factor causing vaccine hesitance or resistance here . . . though it's not the only cause of hesitancy.
And where is this semi-organized spreading of false information about the vaccines happening? Online.
https://www.counterhate.com/disinformationdozen
The Disinformation Dozen
Why platforms must act on twelve leading online anti-vaxxers
Just twelve anti-vaxxers are responsible for almost two-thirds of anti-vaccine content circulating on social media platforms. This new analysis of content posted or shared to social media over 812,000 times between February and March uncovers how a tiny group of determined anti-vaxxers is responsible for a tidal wave of disinformation - and shows how platforms can fix it by enforcing their standards.
https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_750e5af82aea4920a270b1c5a8b094c2.pdf
My anti-vax aunt is a long time follower of # 2.13 -
So, you are happy for 15% of your population to be disadvantaged! Their lives are expected to be lesser? Disadvantage is not necessarily the same as being lazy or inadequate, or having a disability, it can can be down to circumstances beyond their control, being in the wrong place at the wrong time leading to low disposable incomes. These people should have access to good information too and not just about vaccines. It is possible some of these people will have someone who will do research for them, but by no means all. Seems like, devil take the hindmost. Similar to the attitude towards the less developed countries and for the record, I don't like the divisiveness we have here either.
If that was in response to my post about 85% of people in the US having a smart phone, what an odd set of conclusions...I'm in the same Political Spectrum neighborhood as Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela, lol.
My 83 year old mother doesn't have a smart phone, and she is certainly not disadvantaged. Age appears to be more predictive for not having a smart phone than income.
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/10 -
Interestingly, the only handout I can recall getting at the public health unit mass vaccination clinic was my "receipt" with the date/time/type/lot number etc sort of info. I don't think there was anything given about side effects unless you got Astra Zeneca. I had no effects whatsoever so I didn't bother to seek out any information online afterwards.
It doesn't seem to have affected compliance here since we're at 83% of population 12+ fully vaccinated.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
Guess what. Not all of us are American for one. I know many without smart phones especially older people and for one my parents wouldn't even think about using a computer at a library since they never used one in their whole lives. They have phones but would never use the internet etc on it. Just because you can doesn't mean the rest of the world is up to it.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
Guess what. Not all of us are American for one. I know many without smart phones especially older people and for one my parents wouldn't even think about using a computer at a library since they never used one in their whole lives. They have phones but would never use the internet etc on it. Just because you can doesn't mean the rest of the world is up to it.
The branch of this discussion that started the post you replied to . . . was about people in the US not having access to information about the vaccine at the time of the sign-up or vaccination, more or less. Hence the US being the relevant geographic reference. Someone in the UK was advancing the idea that it was better to be in England, because they got the info in a handout. Around 75-80% of USAians signed up for the vax online, and the info was available where they signed up. 85% of USAians have smartphones. Someone with a smartphone could sign up online, get the info online.
The point was about info being available to USAians, countering the odd idea that people here in the US were vaccine hesitant (or something like that) because we didn't get a handout like they did in the UK.
Of course different things are true in different countries.12 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
Guess what. Not all of us are American for one. I know many without smart phones especially older people and for one my parents wouldn't even think about using a computer at a library since they never used one in their whole lives. They have phones but would never use the internet etc on it. Just because you can doesn't mean the rest of the world is up to it.
The branch of this discussion that started the post you replied to . . . was about people in the US not having access to information about the vaccine at the time of the sign-up or vaccination, more or less. Hence the US being the relevant geographic reference. Someone in the UK was advancing the idea that it was better to be in England, because they got the info in a handout. Around 75-80% of USAians signed up for the vax online, and the info was available where they signed up. 85% of USAians have smartphones. Someone with a smartphone could sign up online, get the info online.
The point was about info being available to USAians, countering the odd idea that people here in the US were vaccine hesitant (or something like that) because we didn't get a handout like they did in the UK.
Of course different things are true in different countries.
No problem.. go on.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
OK, but free access to the Internet in public libraries wasn't much help while libraries were closed for in-person services during covid shutdowns. Some libraries have been able lend out hot spot devices, but there's no guarantee that everybody had access. Or that they could afford a device with a user interface to access the Internet if there was a hot spot available to them. Or, if their library was doing in-person services, that the library's hours worked with the their work hours, commuting hours, child-duty hours, etc. I saw something in an advice column recently to the effect that we should always remember "not everybody can." Not everybody can get online.
3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »
OK, but free access to the Internet in public libraries wasn't much help while libraries were closed for in-person services during covid shutdowns. Some libraries have been able lend out hot spot devices, but there's no guarantee that everybody had access. Or that they could afford a device with a user interface to access the Internet if there was a hot spot available to them. Or, if their library was doing in-person services, that the library's hours worked with the their work hours, commuting hours, child-duty hours, etc. I saw something in an advice column recently to the effect that we should always remember "not everybody can." Not everybody can get online.
There are multiple avenues for information. 85% of Americans do have phones with internet. Those with young children would be in the 18-29 or 30-49 age bracket, where only 4-5% don't have smart phones. Here in Massachusetts it was just a few months when both vaccines were available and libraries were shut down. And, as said above, people could also call their doctors.
I'm going to continue to advocate for library use because so many people are not aware of this wonderful free resource.6
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