Coronavirus prep
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paperpudding wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »yes, interesting difference.
Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.
was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.
Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.
(shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)
Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.
In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.
I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.
Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.
That's just a personal observation.
That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.
Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines
Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...
My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.
Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.
All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.
In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.
That's interesting.
Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.
Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.
And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.
Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?
I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.
Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.
On the contrary - I am certain it is not.
As I said in my earlier post about live vaccines and someone pointed out that the shingles vaccine in US is not a live vaccine
and the shingles vaccine in Australia is - we are still using Zostavax.
But as also stated in my earlier post, I do not claim universal observation - only my own observation, which I explained where it was coming from.
Also - back to original point - here in Australia people are told not to have Covid vaccine 1 week either side of ANY other vaccine7 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »Well now I'm really curious...
I got the flu and Covid booster (#3) on Sunday with absolutely no side effects to either. Every now and then, I'd bend down to get something in the kitchen and think, "Is that a headache starting?" but then, no. I kept thinking that surely something was going to happen to make me feel awful, but again, no. So when I hear people grateful that they felt terrible post-vaccine, Covid or flu, "because at least I know it's working," I get to wondering, "Is it not working for me?" According to that logic, nothing's working. I didn't react to either Covid 1 or 2. Other than a sore arm, I haven't had any reaction, and I'm guessing that if you stuck a needle into my arm and injected something harmless, I'd still have a sore arm.
Interestingly, I thought (too late) to come here to see what people's thoughts on getting Covid booster + flu together would be. If I had to weigh in, I'd be saying, "It was nothing," but I doubt that's the case.
FWIW, I had both shingles shots too, and other than feeling like I was going to lose my arm both times, no reaction.
It is still working for you - as in providing immunity against disease.
Some people get side effects and some don't - this is unrelated to how effectively the vaccine works at doing its job of providing immunity from disease.8 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »Well now I'm really curious...
I got the flu and Covid booster (#3) on Sunday with absolutely no side effects to either. Every now and then, I'd bend down to get something in the kitchen and think, "Is that a headache starting?" but then, no. I kept thinking that surely something was going to happen to make me feel awful, but again, no. So when I hear people grateful that they felt terrible post-vaccine, Covid or flu, "because at least I know it's working," I get to wondering, "Is it not working for me?" According to that logic, nothing's working. I didn't react to either Covid 1 or 2. Other than a sore arm, I haven't had any reaction, and I'm guessing that if you stuck a needle into my arm and injected something harmless, I'd still have a sore arm.
Interestingly, I thought (too late) to come here to see what people's thoughts on getting Covid booster + flu together would be. If I had to weigh in, I'd be saying, "It was nothing," but I doubt that's the case.
FWIW, I had both shingles shots too, and other than feeling like I was going to lose my arm both times, no reaction.
The bolded part seems logical. But insulin users do not experience this.
My husband injects insulin 5 times a day.
Zero soreness. Not even if he hits a small blood vessel and gets a small bruise.
Yet his arm was a bit sore after last year’s and this year’s flu shots, and after his COVID shots.
The soreness is a sign of the vaccine working.
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paperpudding wrote: »yes, interesting difference.
Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.
was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.
Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.
(shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)
Have they said why the gap? I've been trying to decide which to get first in case I want a gap between them (I just became eligible based on the 6 months for the booster).
@lemurcat2: I'm getting my booster Friday and am debating about whether or not to get the flu shot at the same time so if you get both before then, please report back.1 -
LazyBlondeChef wrote: »I had the first shingles vaccine two months ago and had a sore arm and large swollen red bump. The redness became brownish and has slowly lightened to where it is only slightly visible now so I imagine it'll eventually completely fade away. I'm dreading the second shot which I've scheduled for early next month. Pfizer on the other hand was less painful though I had some fatigue both times and felt "off" in a non specific way. But I often feel off because my allergies are never ending.
I had no side effects from prior flu shots but I've only done them twice. Never had the flu and never felt the need but decided to start getting them as I got older (in my 60s). I've an appointment later this week for one. I've read in several places that people are having more side effects this year than in the past which is concerning.
I was originally going to do the shingles and flu at the same time but found mixed information on whether or not to do that so in the end chose not to.
I might have had a horrible shingles vaccine reaction in May, but part or all of that may have been Anaplasmosis, because I was diagnosed with that 11 days after my shingles shot.
Never-the-less, I am still getting shot two and need to hurry up and make an appointment already. I should make that for next Friday. (Getting Covid booster this Friday.)2 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »girlwithcurls2 wrote: »Well now I'm really curious...
I got the flu and Covid booster (#3) on Sunday with absolutely no side effects to either. Every now and then, I'd bend down to get something in the kitchen and think, "Is that a headache starting?" but then, no. I kept thinking that surely something was going to happen to make me feel awful, but again, no. So when I hear people grateful that they felt terrible post-vaccine, Covid or flu, "because at least I know it's working," I get to wondering, "Is it not working for me?" According to that logic, nothing's working. I didn't react to either Covid 1 or 2. Other than a sore arm, I haven't had any reaction, and I'm guessing that if you stuck a needle into my arm and injected something harmless, I'd still have a sore arm.
Interestingly, I thought (too late) to come here to see what people's thoughts on getting Covid booster + flu together would be. If I had to weigh in, I'd be saying, "It was nothing," but I doubt that's the case.
FWIW, I had both shingles shots too, and other than feeling like I was going to lose my arm both times, no reaction.
The bolded part seems logical. But insulin users do not experience this.
My husband injects insulin 5 times a day.
Zero soreness. Not even if he hits a small blood vessel and gets a small bruise.
Yet his arm was a bit sore after last year’s and this year’s flu shots, and after his COVID shots.
The soreness is a sign of the vaccine working.
Yes but insulin is injected sub cutaneous and most people do it into the abdomen - so, not the muscle of the arm so not really an apples to apples comparison.
Most other s/c abdominal injections don't result in soreness either - Prolia, for example.
Soreness is not a sign of the vaccine working or not working - it is a sign of local reactions to an ingredient
Most local reactions are not to the vaccine itself but additives like stabiliser, preservative etc.
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I always thought the sore arm was muscle soreness from having a sharp object inserted, liquid of some sort injected in to a "dense" space - not soreness caused by the vaccine itself - and that the soreness was increased if you used your muscles, hence the "no strenuous activity with that arm" for things like tetanus, regular boosters and the covid shots.
I get a stinging sensation from injected local anaesthetic which doesn't seem affected by injection into muscle, sub-cutaneous or both - all injections of local anaesthetic I've experienced have stung like bee/wasp venom until the anaesthetic kicked in- none of my vaccinations have had the liquid itself sting, just the "bite" as the needle goes in which can be minor (covid) or major (tetanus/depo).1 -
I’ve had the old shingles shot & the newer 2 dose shingles shot, flu shots every year & 2 Moderna COVID shots. Only reaction that I remember for any of them is a sore arm.1
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girlwithcurls2 wrote: »Well now I'm really curious...
I got the flu and Covid booster (#3) on Sunday with absolutely no side effects to either. Every now and then, I'd bend down to get something in the kitchen and think, "Is that a headache starting?" but then, no. I kept thinking that surely something was going to happen to make me feel awful, but again, no. So when I hear people grateful that they felt terrible post-vaccine, Covid or flu, "because at least I know it's working," I get to wondering, "Is it not working for me?" According to that logic, nothing's working. I didn't react to either Covid 1 or 2. Other than a sore arm, I haven't had any reaction, and I'm guessing that if you stuck a needle into my arm and injected something harmless, I'd still have a sore arm.
Interestingly, I thought (too late) to come here to see what people's thoughts on getting Covid booster + flu together would be. If I had to weigh in, I'd be saying, "It was nothing," but I doubt that's the case.
FWIW, I had both shingles shots too, and other than feeling like I was going to lose my arm both times, no reaction.
According to the virologists on TWIV, there is no connection between vaccine side effects and effectiveness.
As far as arm soreness, it's possible you're just a very well hydrated person who moves your arms around a lot My understanding is both help reduce swelling and pain. 5 -
I finally got around to making an appointment for my flu shot, and my doctor's been bugging me to get a Tdap booster so I added that one on too.
I got J&J, so I figure I'll give it a little more time to see what they recommend and for the data on which booster and when.1 -
sheahughes wrote: »I always thought the sore arm was muscle soreness from having a sharp object inserted, liquid of some sort injected in to a "dense" space - not soreness caused by the vaccine itself - and that the soreness was increased if you used your muscles, hence the "no strenuous activity with that arm" for things like tetanus, regular boosters and the covid shots.
I get a stinging sensation from injected local anaesthetic which doesn't seem affected by injection into muscle, sub-cutaneous or both - all injections of local anaesthetic I've experienced have stung like bee/wasp venom until the anaesthetic kicked in- none of my vaccinations have had the liquid itself sting, just the "bite" as the needle goes in which can be minor (covid) or major (tetanus/depo).
Sting as it goes in (whatever it is) and local reaction ( as in redness, swelling, sore arm afterward) are not usually related
Some substances are naturally stingier than others
Local anasthetic very much so.
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Also, on this point - sting as vaccines go in is often related to giver using alcohol wipe on the area first.
It is not neccesary or recomended to do so - although harmless, it does make it sting more.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »Also, on this point - sting as vaccines go in is often related to giver using alcohol wipe on the area first.
It is not neccesary or recomended to do so - although harmless, it does make it sting more.
That’s interesting. I’ve always been swiped by a swab of something pre-vaccine. What are they using? I’ve always assumed it was an alcohol swab.0 -
It possibly is.
Many people still do so but isnt neccesary or recomended.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »It possibly is.
Many people still do so but isnt neccesary or recomended.
Thanks!
Probably just a policy here.0 -
missysippy930 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »It possibly is.
Many people still do so but isnt neccesary or recomended.
Thanks!
Probably just a policy here.
Possibly.
Or an Old habits die hard thing.4 -
I know in the mid-90's, as a type 1 diabetic, I was taught that we should swab with alcohol before piercing the skin. The logic was that we kill anything harmful on our skin before we create an opening where it gets inside our body. I'm aware that this has changed in recent years, but things like that take a lot of time before everyone actually implements that change.9
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »yes, interesting difference.
Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.
was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.
Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.
(shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)
Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.
In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.
I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.
Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.
That's just a personal observation.
That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.
Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines
Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...
My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.
Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.
All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.
In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.
That's interesting.
Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.
Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.
And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.
Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?
I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.
Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.
Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)
I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.
I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.
I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
How old were you when you got it? I am 56.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »yes, interesting difference.
Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.
was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.
Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.
(shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)
Have they said why the gap? I've been trying to decide which to get first in case I want a gap between them (I just became eligible based on the 6 months for the booster).
@lemurcat2: I'm getting my booster Friday and am debating about whether or not to get the flu shot at the same time so if you get both before then, please report back.
I will. It likely will be either Thursday or Friday, but right now I'm leaning toward Thursday for logistical reasons.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »SuzySunshine99 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »yes, interesting difference.
Even back in March/April when flu vaccines were at their peak here - ie just before southern hemisphere winter - one week gap was the thing.
was 2 week gap initially but then reduced to 1.
Sometimes inconvenient for people but that's what it is.
(shingles vaccine may be different in US recomendations because it is a live vaccine - the others are not)
Our shingles vaccine (US) is inactivated.
In that case I can't think of any reason why other vaccines are considered OK with covid vaccine but shingles vaccine is not.
I'm not sure...it might not be a medical reason, but more of a comfort issue.
Very few people I know have ever had a noticeable reaction to a flu vaccine. But almost everyone I know has had some sort of reaction (mild to severe) from the COVID and shingles vaccines.
That's just a personal observation.
That hasn't been my observation - and I give a lot of vaccines in my job.
Hasn't been any more local reactions in covid or shingles vs flu vaccines
Hmmm...again, just my personal observations...
My workplace provides flu vaccines every year, and most employees take them.
Over the years, I've heard one or two of my co-workers say they were a little tired or sore the next day.
All of my co-workers have now been vaccinated for COVID (by mandate). Well over half talked about moderate to severe reactions....fevers, headaches, exhaustion, etc. Very few people said they had little to no reaction.
In my little world, it's a very stark difference between the two vaccines.
That's interesting.
Many people I know have had no reaction to the covid vac or minor reactions only - not everyone, and I haven't kept statistics to say what percentage - but many people.
Not heard of anyone having issues with shingles vaccine here.
And the starting point of all this wasn't whether covid vac causes reactions but why other vaccines, in US, can be given co currently with covid vac but shingles cannot.
Are you certain that the shingles vax where you are is the same as in countries others are reporting from?
I know nothing about vaccines, but understand that sometimes the recommended or available ones can differ by nation.
Background reason for asking: The "old" shingles vax in the US - a zoster live vaccine (ZVL, Zostavax) had no significant reputation for unusual side effects, among those I know. The newer one, a recombinant zoster vaccine (RZV, Shingrix) has quite a reputation among people I know for side effects - not super severe, but the pretty-unpleasant soreness, swelling, fever, etc. - perhaps especially after the second shot.
Yeah I am scared to get the shingles vaccine (although I do want it) because I have heard the side effects are nasty - worse than the Covid vaccine. I guess I thought it was just common knowledge that it gives a bad reaction.
Both my husband and I had our first ever flu shot in the fall, and both Covid shots. Covid shots were definitely worse reactions (although not super severe for either of us.)
I can't imagine risking shingles (which you can't even avoid by not mixing with other people, since the virus is lying dormant in your body) and its potential for months or even years of pain for fear of the brief discomfort of the recombinant shingles vaccine.
I was so glad when I was finally able to get the shingles vaccine. When I first thought about it, I was told I was too young, then I was told I had to get a prescription from my doctor, then none of the pharmacies I went to had it in stock .... I'd say it took close to five years from when I first started thinking about it to get the vaccine. No, I wasn't devoting massive amounts of time and energy to trying to get it, but at least several times a year I would stop by a pharmacy that listed it as available only to run into roadblock. I've known people who had really bad cases of shingles that deeply impacted their quality of life, so it was a real relief to get the vaccine, despite the soreness, headache, and fatigue. It only lasted one to two days.
I am going to get it. I had the prescription a couple of years ago but when I went to fill it it was expensive (like $400) so I decided to wait until it was covered - which I think is 60 here. Then two people in my 6 person office got shingles within weeks of each other so I decided I should get it. But now I have looked into it more and it apparently doesn't last that long - they are saying people who get it younger than 60 might not be protected later in life when the risk of shingles complications is higher. So on the fence as to whether I should wait 4 more years.
How old were you when you got it? I am 56.
Ohhh that's not good news. I think I got the shingles vax right after I turned 50 because it was covered on my drug benefit plan.
Two women in my office got shingles too. One almost lost her vision because of it and was encouraging everyone to get vaxxed. There was also a younger gal who got some weird variation that only affected her face. It took them forever to diagnose it as shingles and I've seen the photos, it was awful. She was hospitalized for a long time and ended up being off work for six months.7
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