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To Keto or Not To Keto?
Replies
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Has anyone used keto diet for bi-polar disorder or depression?0
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svsiemers2018 wrote: »Has anyone used keto diet for bi-polar disorder or depression?
There is some science but not a lot that supports the assertion that a ketogenic diets help and I suspect there will be more studies going forward. Keto diets are also very hard to adhere to when starting out which is mostly to do with electrolyte balance which could actually result in exacerbating depression.
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Sinisterbarbie1 wrote: »Hi - I’ve been reading this thread the last couple of days because I have known a lot of people who have been super successful with keto and I was therefore always tempted to try it, but didn’t, because while I understood the appeal for them and the ease of the concept for someone who likes to eat protein heavy, possibly fat heavier foods than many people would consume regularly when cutting calories, and theoretically not have to keep track, the eating style never appealed to me (certainly not long term) because I love fruits and vegetables. In my very limited and unscientific personal observation, the people who were most successful were not the people who were eating bunless cheesburgers twice a day and cheese taco shells stuffed with eggs and cheese for breakfast, but people who were eating leaner proteins, and actually eating some green things mixed in with those. When I look at my own eating habits honed through what keeps me happy with CICO I too eat primarily a mix of lean proteins and lots of green veggies (and fruit) although probably relying more on plant based proteins or dairy to get the protein I need. This is not to say I eat a keto diet. I am just pointing out that people tend to argue/make assumptions from the extremes, (you are posting on the debate club, after all so I would expect no less) and in reality if you look below the surface there are a lot of commonalities in what works, which the posters on this thread keep pointing out, whether they mean to or not. its just outside packaging and degrees that differs or allow us to differentiate ourselves or affiliate ourselves with one tribe or another.
I’ve learned a lot from the thread precisely because I don’t have any particular view on keto and I don’t feel terribly passionate about CICO either (I didn’t actually know what the label meant before joining MFP a few months ago and by then I had already lost 40+ pounds doing it without anyone giving me any rules or books or team CICO swag
). Really interesting!
Just curious, are these people you know in real life and see in person from time to time? I have a few friends who post enthusiastically on FB about keto...until they don't, and when I see them in person I note they've gained weight back. Then they start posting enthusiastically about keto again, and the cycle continues.
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neanderthin wrote: »svsiemers2018 wrote: »Has anyone used keto diet for bi-polar disorder or depression?
There is some science but not a lot that supports the assertion that a ketogenic diets help and I suspect there will be more studies going forward. Keto diets are also very hard to adhere to when starting out which is mostly to do with electrolyte balance which could actually result in exacerbating depression.
I can say from personal experience that my bi-polar depression is non-existent when I stay in ketosis. But you are right, it is tough to stay there. However, it is also very nice to wake up in the morning and not have your first thought be "Why am I still alive?" When I wake up and think yet again about suicide, then I remember what I ate (potato chips are my downfall), swear I will never do it again because no potato chip is worth feeling the way I do the next morning. Wish I could find a bi-polar keto buddy to have on my speed dial. Sigh . . .
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I tried keto… I wouldn’t swear by it but I do well with low-carb, personally. Calories in, calories out matter more than any fad diet imo.0
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I can say from personal experience that my bi-polar depression is non-existent when I stay in ketosis. But you are right, it is tough to stay there. However, it is also very nice to wake up in the morning and not have your first thought be "Why am I still alive?" When I wake up and think yet again about suicide, then I remember what I ate (potato chips are my downfall), swear I will never do it again because no potato chip is worth feeling the way I do the next morning. Wish I could find a bi-polar keto buddy to have on my speed dial. Sigh . . .
Maybe try carnivore for 30 days and see how you feel. There not much science yet on carnivore but I suspect with the amount of anecdotally positive feedback and the one study from Harvard seems to back that up. Basically it's the ultimate elimination diet. I would talk to your Dr. first though.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Sinisterbarbie1 wrote: »Hi - I’ve been reading this thread the last couple of days because I have known a lot of people who have been super successful with keto and I was therefore always tempted to try it, but didn’t, because while I understood the appeal for them and the ease of the concept for someone who likes to eat protein heavy, possibly fat heavier foods than many people would consume regularly when cutting calories, and theoretically not have to keep track, the eating style never appealed to me (certainly not long term) because I love fruits and vegetables. In my very limited and unscientific personal observation, the people who were most successful were not the people who were eating bunless cheesburgers twice a day and cheese taco shells stuffed with eggs and cheese for breakfast, but people who were eating leaner proteins, and actually eating some green things mixed in with those. When I look at my own eating habits honed through what keeps me happy with CICO I too eat primarily a mix of lean proteins and lots of green veggies (and fruit) although probably relying more on plant based proteins or dairy to get the protein I need. This is not to say I eat a keto diet. I am just pointing out that people tend to argue/make assumptions from the extremes, (you are posting on the debate club, after all so I would expect no less) and in reality if you look below the surface there are a lot of commonalities in what works, which the posters on this thread keep pointing out, whether they mean to or not. its just outside packaging and degrees that differs or allow us to differentiate ourselves or affiliate ourselves with one tribe or another.
I’ve learned a lot from the thread precisely because I don’t have any particular view on keto and I don’t feel terribly passionate about CICO either (I didn’t actually know what the label meant before joining MFP a few months ago and by then I had already lost 40+ pounds doing it without anyone giving me any rules or books or team CICO swag ). Really interesting!
Just curious, are these people you know in real life and see in person from time to time? I have a few friends who post enthusiastically on FB about keto...until they don't, and when I see them in person I note they've gained weight back. Then they start posting enthusiastically about keto again, and the cycle continues.
100% yes. It just doesn't seem sustainable to me. I said it previously, I've never actually met someone in person who has done Keto and kept it off. And I work in an office with ALOT of younger/middle aged women. Haven't met any men who've tried it oddly enough.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Sinisterbarbie1 wrote: »Hi - I’ve been reading this thread the last couple of days because I have known a lot of people who have been super successful with keto and I was therefore always tempted to try it, but didn’t, because while I understood the appeal for them and the ease of the concept for someone who likes to eat protein heavy, possibly fat heavier foods than many people would consume regularly when cutting calories, and theoretically not have to keep track, the eating style never appealed to me (certainly not long term) because I love fruits and vegetables. In my very limited and unscientific personal observation, the people who were most successful were not the people who were eating bunless cheesburgers twice a day and cheese taco shells stuffed with eggs and cheese for breakfast, but people who were eating leaner proteins, and actually eating some green things mixed in with those. When I look at my own eating habits honed through what keeps me happy with CICO I too eat primarily a mix of lean proteins and lots of green veggies (and fruit) although probably relying more on plant based proteins or dairy to get the protein I need. This is not to say I eat a keto diet. I am just pointing out that people tend to argue/make assumptions from the extremes, (you are posting on the debate club, after all so I would expect no less) and in reality if you look below the surface there are a lot of commonalities in what works, which the posters on this thread keep pointing out, whether they mean to or not. its just outside packaging and degrees that differs or allow us to differentiate ourselves or affiliate ourselves with one tribe or another.
I’ve learned a lot from the thread precisely because I don’t have any particular view on keto and I don’t feel terribly passionate about CICO either (I didn’t actually know what the label meant before joining MFP a few months ago and by then I had already lost 40+ pounds doing it without anyone giving me any rules or books or team CICO swag ). Really interesting!
Just curious, are these people you know in real life and see in person from time to time? I have a few friends who post enthusiastically on FB about keto...until they don't, and when I see them in person I note they've gained weight back. Then they start posting enthusiastically about keto again, and the cycle continues.
100% yes. It just doesn't seem sustainable to me. I said it previously, I've never actually met someone in person who has done Keto and kept it off. And I work in an office with ALOT of younger/middle aged women. Haven't met any men who've tried it oddly enough.
Pretty much all diets have notoriously very poor success rates with most failing in the 90% range and that includes calorie counting. A lifestyle change with supportive behavioral modifications is pretty much the only way to increase the odds. Anecdotally I've been low carb with periods of ketosis for over 20 years with success, so it can be done but I find people generally like eating the foods they do so much they apparently will accept the consequences, or at least it appears that way, or is it more complicated than that.2 -
Very true!1
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@kshama2001 sorry I wasn’t paying attention to the thread so didn’t notice your question until just now, but I have to tell you that I just saw one of the people I was referring to in my post a few weeks ago after not having seen him in person since before COVID. We used to see each other all the time at conferences. He has put on about 40 pounds during the pandemic. I would say that isn’t a fair time to judge, except I lost more than 70 lbs in the same time frame.0
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I’ve done a lot of research on the keto diet & know several people who have had great success with it; however, they’ve all gained the weight back that they lost!
Unless you’re willing to eat the keto lifestyle forever, then you will regain the weight as you start increasing your carb intake & because of fluid retention.
I never support a diet that gives up any food groups because it’s absolutely not necessary! Why live in misery by not eating carbs? You can easily lose weight while eating cake, ice cream, pizza, & all the yummy things.3 -
the_real_me_lissa wrote: »I’ve done a lot of research on the keto diet & know several people who have had great success with it; however, they’ve all gained the weight back that they lost!
Unless you’re willing to eat the keto lifestyle forever, then you will regain the weight as you start increasing your carb intake & because of fluid retention.
I never support a diet that gives up any food groups because it’s absolutely not necessary! Why live in misery by not eating carbs? You can easily lose weight while eating cake, ice cream, pizza, & all the yummy things.
As long as you maintain your energy balance (CICO), the only thing you will gain back is the water needed to store the extra glucose that the carbs deliver to your body. You will NOT gain it all back simply because you are eating carbs...
As for the misery part, some people are quite happy cutting back on or completely giving up carbs and are not 'miserable' because of it.5 -
the_real_me_lissa wrote: »You can easily lose weight while eating cake, ice cream, pizza, & all the yummy things.
Yikes! I am unable to let this one go by without comment. While it is possible for most people to lose weight eating the type of things you mentioned, I doubt it is easy for very many of them. For those of us who experience overpowering carb cravings - it is impossible. Impossible because we are unable to stop at just a couple of pieces of pizza or just one donut. I'm talking about more than cravings. Its getting the shakes and physical pain from eating high glycemic items (most with added sugar and/or flour) even if we are staying well within our calorie limits. Worse, carb cravings feel almost exactly like very strong hunger pains and are most easily eliminated by consuming more carbs that will have us feeling starved again 2 hours later. What is easy, is staying away from food items that cause this kind of reaction.
That's the beauty of keto. Eating enough to stay healthy without feeling hungry because of carb cravings. Keto does not eliminate any food group, but it does place limits. Keto does not cause weight loss. Eating fewer calories than are expended does that. Keto, and various other low carb programs, just makes eating fewer calories easier for some people. Everyone is different and individual carbohydrate tolerance will vary from person to person. Finding what works personally for each of us that can become our forever way of eating and staying healthy should be the goal. Strict keto is not for me, but if that is what works for someone else, then I say have at it.
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While it is possible for most people to lose weight eating the type of things you mentioned, I doubt it is easy for very many of them.
I disagree.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like. ( pizza, cake , whatever)
Not in unlimited quantity or frequency, of course
Most people can do that without uncontrollable carb cravings.
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paperpudding wrote: »While it is possible for most people to lose weight eating the type of things you mentioned, I doubt it is easy for very many of them.
I disagree.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like. ( pizza, cake , whatever)
Not in unlimited quantity or frequency, of course
Most people can do that without uncontrollable carb cravings.
You mean most people except the 72% of Americans who are overweight or obese. Sorry I couldn't resist. But yeah, people can lose weight eating anything, unfortunately it's how long can they continue to do it without looking at a possible critique at what they eat and in what quantities. When people do critique their diet, it can and does lead down the low carb and keto pathway or at least for many.0 -
paperpudding wrote: »While it is possible for most people to lose weight eating the type of things you mentioned, I doubt it is easy for very many of them.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like. ( pizza, cake , whatever)
Not in unlimited quantity or frequency, of course
Most people can do that without uncontrollable carb cravings.
I have no problem agreeing with this.
Its a matter of degree that was directed at everyone by @the_real_me_lissa . "Easily" is saying the objective (losing weight while eating whatever one likes) can be achieved without effort or trouble. That is an absolute.
To say something is easier in this instance is a comparison of different methods to achieve an identical objective. It's use was quantified to, "most people." It might be true for all I know. To limit the quantity or frequency of consuming foods you like is still a degree of denial which implies a smidgen or more of effort.
In the context of this keto thread, I think any statement that claims we are all making ourselves miserable if we don't eat cake and ice cream while trying to lose weight because it is easy should be challenged. I'm still on the fence about the pizza thing though.
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Limiting pizza and ice-cream is one thing, but keto is so restrictive I wouldn't even be able to eat 'proper' amounts of vegetables and fruit. Just the butternut squash I ate with dinner yesterday would be too many carbs for keto.
Any diet that limits my intake of fruit and vegetables is a big no no in my book. I could possibly, maybe handle a lower carb diet than I'm following, but keto is several bridges too far for me.2 -
the_real_me_lissa wrote: »I’ve done a lot of research on the keto diet & know several people who have had great success with it; however, they’ve all gained the weight back that they lost!
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Unless you’re willing to eat the keto lifestyle forever, then you will regain the weight as you start increasing your carb intake & because of fluid retention.
I never support a diet that gives up any food groups because it’s absolutely not necessary! Why live in misery by not eating carbs? You can easily lose weight while eating cake, ice cream, pizza, & all the yummy things.
IMO, you're on shaky ground telling people what's - for them - "not necessary", "living in misery", or will let them "easily lose weight".
It's great that that works for you. It also works for me, though I'm not a huge cake/cookie person - more the ice cream/pizza fan, myself. Not exclusively that, of course, because I also love me some veggies and fruits, in truly massive quantities (part of why I wouldn't choose keto personally).
It should be possible to say what you don't like about an eating approach, why you wouldn't do it, without being dismissive about what others might choose to do, it seems like? (It's also a pretty terrible way to persuade others to our own way of thinking, IME, if that's among the intentions.)
Keto is compatible with a reasonably nutritious overall way of eating. (I can understand a critique about ways of eating that don't permit reasonable nutrition.)
That people you know who did keto regained the weight is no indication of much of anything. Statistically, most people who lose weight by any method regain the weight. Among people I know, I know many who've lost weight, and only a tiny number who started materially overweight then stayed at a healthy weight long term. I can think of 3 offhand, and I'm one of them . . . but very nearly everyone I know has "dieted for weight loss" at some point, without great long-term success. (The only exceptions are some always-slim people, whose habits/preferences seemingly semi-automagically regulate their weight.)
IMO, long term success is about picking a sustainable method that relies on habits that relatively easy and happy to continue long term, almost on autopilot. For some people, that may be keto. For others, it may not.
Pretty sure you didn't read the thread before posting. That's obviously permissible, just fine, but it does tend to have implications for a person's reputation here, if that matters to a person.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »While it is possible for most people to lose weight eating the type of things you mentioned, I doubt it is easy for very many of them.
I disagree.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like. ( pizza, cake , whatever)
Not in unlimited quantity or frequency, of course
Most people can do that without uncontrollable carb cravings.
You mean most people except the 72% of Americans who are overweight or obese. Sorry I couldn't resist. But yeah, people can lose weight eating anything, unfortunately it's how long can they continue to do it without looking at a possible critique at what they eat and in what quantities. When people do critique their diet, it can and does lead down the low carb and keto pathway or at least for many.
No - I mean the people trying to lose weight, like my post said.
72% of Americans may be overweight or obese but they are not all trying to lose weight nor are those trying to do so using a method that is easier for them
Sorry , I dislike what I said being misrepresented.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like (pizza, cake whatever) although obviously one needs to limit quantity and frequency
and No, I don't agree that critiquing one's diet leads to low carb or keto for many - for a few perhaps but I would say they are in the minority of all people trying to lose weight and/or improve their nutrition
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paperpudding wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »While it is possible for most people to lose weight eating the type of things you mentioned, I doubt it is easy for very many of them.
I disagree.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like. ( pizza, cake , whatever)
Not in unlimited quantity or frequency, of course
Most people can do that without uncontrollable carb cravings.
You mean most people except the 72% of Americans who are overweight or obese. Sorry I couldn't resist. But yeah, people can lose weight eating anything, unfortunately it's how long can they continue to do it without looking at a possible critique at what they eat and in what quantities. When people do critique their diet, it can and does lead down the low carb and keto pathway or at least for many.
No - I mean the people trying to lose weight, like my post said.
72% of Americans may be overweight or obese but they are not all trying to lose weight nor are those trying to do so using a method that is easier for them
Sorry , I dislike what I said being misrepresented.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like (pizza, cake whatever) although obviously one needs to limit quantity and frequency
and No, I don't agree that critiquing one's diet leads to low carb or keto for many - for a few perhaps but I would say they are in the minority of all people trying to lose weight and/or improve their nutritionpaperpudding wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »While it is possible for most people to lose weight eating the type of things you mentioned, I doubt it is easy for very many of them.
I disagree.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like. ( pizza, cake , whatever)
Not in unlimited quantity or frequency, of course
Most people can do that without uncontrollable carb cravings.
You mean most people except the 72% of Americans who are overweight or obese. Sorry I couldn't resist. But yeah, people can lose weight eating anything, unfortunately it's how long can they continue to do it without looking at a possible critique at what they eat and in what quantities. When people do critique their diet, it can and does lead down the low carb and keto pathway or at least for many.
No - I mean the people trying to lose weight, like my post said.
72% of Americans may be overweight or obese but they are not all trying to lose weight nor are those trying to do so using a method that is easier for them
Sorry , I dislike what I said being misrepresented.
I think for most people it is easier to lose weight without denying yourself foods you like (pizza, cake whatever) although obviously one needs to limit quantity and frequency
and No, I don't agree that critiquing one's diet leads to low carb or keto for many - for a few perhaps but I would say they are in the minority of all people trying to lose weight and/or improve their nutrition
Well, I did say except the 72% and yeah, the low carb diet has become very popular for a reason and I didn't say it was the majority, I said for many and many could still be a minority. And I agreed with you that people can lose weight eating whatever they like and personally don't really care what people eat or do to lose weight as long as it's sustainable and they can keep it off. Cheers.
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the_real_me_lissa wrote: »I’ve done a lot of research on the keto diet & know several people who have had great success with it; however, they’ve all gained the weight back that they lost!
Unless you’re willing to eat the keto lifestyle forever, then you will regain the weight as you start increasing your carb intake & because of fluid retention.
I never support a diet that gives up any food groups because it’s absolutely not necessary! Why live in misery by not eating carbs? You can easily lose weight while eating cake, ice cream, pizza, & all the yummy things.
I have run many diets to include keto. I thought, for the most part, that is was fairly easy. I got down to 163 with this "diet". I mainly came off of it because i shifted my focus on lifting and keto kills lifting performance, even when keto adapted. I know sit between 167-170 but that is also because it's holiday season, so I tear up some food and enjoy the unintentional muscle gains from the increase food loading.
To also, point out that almost any diet has a high failure rate because people never incorporate the mechanisms for long-term success. It doesn't matter which diet you follow at the end of the day, but what matters is your ability to understand the strategies to maintain energy balance.
That is why I've been able to keep off my weight for the past 12 years and have always fluctuated between 165 lb and 170 lb, with the exception of when i went beast mode on a Disney vacation 😂.
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the_real_me_lissa wrote: »I’ve done a lot of research on the keto diet & know several people who have had great success with it; however, they’ve all gained the weight back that they lost!
.
Unless you’re willing to eat the keto lifestyle forever, then you will regain the weight as you start increasing your carb intake & because of fluid retention.
I never support a diet that gives up any food groups because it’s absolutely not necessary! Why live in misery by not eating carbs? You can easily lose weight while eating cake, ice cream, pizza, & all the yummy things.
IMO, you're on shaky ground telling people what's - for them - "not necessary", "living in misery", or will let them "easily lose weight".
It's great that that works for you. It also works for me, though I'm not a huge cake/cookie person - more the ice cream/pizza fan, myself. Not exclusively that, of course, because I also love me some veggies and fruits, in truly massive quantities (part of why I wouldn't choose keto personally).
It should be possible to say what you don't like about an eating approach, why you wouldn't do it, without being dismissive about what others might choose to do, it seems like? (It's also a pretty terrible way to persuade others to our own way of thinking, IME, if that's among the intentions.)
Keto is compatible with a reasonably nutritious overall way of eating. (I can understand a critique about ways of eating that don't permit reasonable nutrition.)
That people you know who did keto regained the weight is no indication of much of anything. Statistically, most people who lose weight by any method regain the weight. Among people I know, I know many who've lost weight, and only a tiny number who started materially overweight then stayed at a healthy weight long term. I can think of 3 offhand, and I'm one of them . . . but very nearly everyone I know has "dieted for weight loss" at some point, without great long-term success. (The only exceptions are some always-slim people, whose habits/preferences seemingly semi-automagically regulate their weight.)
IMO, long term success is about picking a sustainable method that relies on habits that relatively easy and happy to continue long term, almost on autopilot. For some people, that may be keto. For others, it may not.
Pretty sure you didn't read the thread before posting. That's obviously permissible, just fine, but it does tend to have implications for a person's reputation here, if that matters to a person.
Shaky ground and obviously permissible but reputation could be in question? Interesting post where the thought police of Oceania came to mind. Cheers.2 -
For me I can eat 1500 calories of good carbs veggies grains fruit and gain weight. If I eat 1500 calories of keto I lose weight1
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For me I can eat 1500 calories of good carbs veggies grains fruit and gain weight. If I eat 1500 calories of keto I lose weight
Over what period are we taking that you tried both methods? Because it's true short-term due to losing water weight from the reduction in carbs in keto.3 -
Kind of vague really. Studies don't back this up. Different dietary strategies when controlled in a ward type setting show basically no difference from one diet to another. Good point on the water weight, but again this is short lived. Cheers.2 -
@mtaratoot posted: "My truck burns gasoline when I drive it even if I break open the dashboard and yank off the dial for the fuel gauge."
thank you - understood the first part - heard it much that our body only needs so much fuel and excess gas runs out of the car, in our body ends up in weight gain. the rest is a new2me thought - very helpful.
otherwise not sharing anything decisive in support of the original question to keto or not to keto (clever title) - but rather, sharing my personal observations.... after reading this and other discussions about keto, low carb, and the great sugar/food addictions conversations....
practically speaking, imho, for me, keto food choices is an approach, like the mediteranean diet plan or any meal plan diet is an approach that suggest types of food to eat. 1 way or another, we need to understand how much our bodies need and when too much is too much. That can be some sort of formal counting system (e.g. calorie counting, weight watcher points, food exchange plans, OR following a plan someone else designed and calculated OR some other technique such as moderating by the fit of clothes or whatever a person tries.... hopefully tries things that are helpful for the body and emotionally satisfying.
Different things work at different times for me... and it's ok to evolve... Certainly the fad diets the women in our family did when I was young, like the cabbage soup diet were not emotionally tolerable, and it wasn't long before we threw down the towel and went back to eating/feasting/treating without restrictions.
As to emerging research - sometimes I read threads and get caught in the semantics. Whether one calls something a food addiction or eating disorder or behavioral problem - it helps me to sort through the technical info and find the kernels of truth. Excess/Overeating leads to weight gain. In some people, overeating carbs or combinations of foods can trigger a chemical response in the brain (as measured by PET scans, etc) similar to drugs/alcohol and, for some people, it can trigger a voracious appetite. This response to overeating/eating particular combinations of foods seems to be for 'some people and not necessarily all people' similar to 'some people and not necessarily all people' become physically and/or emotionally dependant on alcohol and some never do...
Further, it seems addictions (food/alcohol/drug abuse) tend to be progressive over usage and time - so food abuse may not appear to be a problem in early stages, at a younger age/in the beginning of a behavioral abuse until later when it becomes an impairment for the person - and in the end stages lead to death (think super-morbid obesity) and the person feels utterly powerless to stop, change, lose the weight and keep it off - they say maybe only 1 or 2% who are in the super-obese range actually manage to lose weight which means 98-99% fail to keep it off, even after the weight loss surgery. This is a dire statistic that reflects how deadly serious the issue is and how tough it is to lose the weight and keep it off, by any method.
It seems to me - when someone is so far into behavioral overeating with triggered voracious appetite going - starting any particular eating approach, whether keto or a proscribed meal plan, can seem hellacious. How does one go from eating say 6k to 10k cals a day to say 1,500 or even 2400... or whatever - emotionally for a person it can feel impossibly restrictive and intolerable... I would suggest when someone throws down the towel, quits and dives back into food - it is not the failure of the meal plan... And going from a state of out of control eating for someone who is super-overweight - is way more complicated than just starting a calorie deficit diet and entails relearning to live life without abusing food - in the same manner as overcoming any of the commonly accepted addictions that include both relearning how to live life without the substance (behavioral changes) AND abstinence (which you can't with food because you must eat, so instead need to moderate to eat enough, not too much).
Practically speaking for me, Keto and low carb meal plans help me initially to break the voracious appetite, and food choices go along, hand in hand, with working on all the behavioral things that need to be addressed in attitudes, beliefs, ideas and ways I overeat ~ that need to be resolved in order to actually lose and keep off the weight. Work in progress... i have not overcome this yet - but I hate to think it is not possible.... it is just way more involved that CICO or Keto... Sorting out what works best personally for each person is what leads to progress for each person... Grateful there's more than one approach available 5 -
LifeChangz wrote: »Different things work at different times for me... and it's ok to evolve... Certainly the fad diets the women in our family did when I was young, like the cabbage soup diet were not emotionally tolerable, and it wasn't long before we threw down the towel and went back to eating/feasting/treating without restrictions.
So, so many people are desperate to find a diet plan that will actually work that they latch onto every new fad that comes along in the hopes that this "plan" will work. Only to discover that not only did their latest effort not work, but was counterproductive because they ended up heavier than ever when the overly restrictive fad-plan got too hard to continue. The problem is exacerbated by weight loss gurus and internet influencers making a living by promising foolproof results if "their" plan is followed. One of the great things about MFP and the forums here is the chance to know of the experiences of other, real, people trying to lose weight and be fit.LifeChangz wrote: »Practically speaking for me, Keto and low carb meal plans help me initially to break the voracious appetite, and food choices go along, hand in hand, with working on all the behavioral things that need to be addressed in attitudes, beliefs, ideas and ways I overeat ~ that need to be resolved in order to actually lose and keep off the weight. Work in progress... i have not overcome this yet - but I hate to think it is not possible.... it is just way more involved that CICO or Keto... Sorting out what works best personally for each person is what leads to progress for each person... Grateful there's more than one approach available
Amen!
I would add that discovering the triggers that lead to overeating and poor choices, be they emotional, medical, quality of sleep, food type, or whatever is part of what leads to progress too. Finding ways to avoid these triggers in our individual "forever way of eating" while being happy and healthy is a goal worthy of effort. Keto and low-carb are tools in the box of possibilities that might help with this goal.
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On another note, Dave MacLeod, an elite Scottish climber, believes that the keto diet was useful for his depression. He did a TLDR video on it, which is very detailed. (Disclaimer: I don't use keto myself, as I like some carbs.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9dtfNZahKw 0 -
That’s really interesting- I think keto was originally developed as a treatment for severe epilepsy. Wonder what it is about no carbs that affects the brain? 🤔On another note, Dave MacLeod, an elite Scottish climber, believes that the keto diet was useful for his depression. He did a TLDR video on it, which is very detailed. (Disclaimer: I don't use keto myself, as I like some carbs.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9dtfNZahKw
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claireychn074 wrote: »
That’s really interesting- I think keto was originally developed as a treatment for severe epilepsy. Wonder what it is about no carbs that affects the brain? 🤔On another note, Dave MacLeod, an elite Scottish climber, believes that the keto diet was useful for his depression. He did a TLDR video on it, which is very detailed. (Disclaimer: I don't use keto myself, as I like some carbs.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9dtfNZahKw
It's not the no carbs really but the effect that ketone bodies and more specifically, butyrate which is an end product of fat metabolism get's utilized by the brain as a fuel, and bypasses the glucose pathway and supplies energy for the brain where glucose metabolism might be dysfunctional in epileptics and people with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and dementia for example and considering people with diabetes are at a much higher risk of dementia, around 60% greater risk, some scientists feel that insulin resistance can happen or spread to the brain and is sometimes referred to diabetes 3, which isn't a real medical term just a term that the some of the medical community feels is appropriate at this time. imo
The Military are experimenting with ketone esters to be consumed 30 minutes before objectives for brain clarity and cognition awareness for example and the esters is because implementing the diet is too difficult when it comes to compliance. But in the context of the ketogenic diet it's basically to mimic starvation which produces ketones and removing carbs creates the same environment without actually starving, which is kind of important. It's all a little confusing, trust me on that one. That clip is 4hrs and I haven't watched it, just mentioning that, but I might if I can find the time.0
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