What Was Your Work Out Today?

@nossmf

I love this story.

I especially like your take-away; can't change the past but can make changes going forward. That's wisdom.

💪😊🏋🏻‍♂️

Treadmill - 1 hr, 3.0 mph, 12% incline

I haven't reported in for a few days, and kind of mostly haven't worked out. But boy, have I been shoveling/sweeping snow, mostly at the friend's house where I was cat-sitting.

I did do a short 10k +3' stationary bike ride on Valentine's day, 102W average, over 80% Z, remainder below.

Saturday, did some shoveling, didn't track the time, probably 45-60'.

Sunday, about 1:16 moving snow around.

Monday, more snow, 49'.

Today, friend was coming home so I was more thorough (I have an AWD small SUV, she has a small 2WD sedan), about 2:49 shoveling/sweeping snow, and chipping ice.

Tonight, rowing team practice, the usual warm-up, stretching, pause drill and stroke progressions to start, then 4 x (1500m on, 3' off), with a strokes per minute rating increase each 500m, except a decrease on the last piece. As usual, I rowed at easy pace through most of the "off" bit. I forgot to wear the chest belt so don't have fully reliable HR data (too much arm flexion, so the wrist HRM drops out sometimes) but it looks like at least 13' Z4, 16' Z3. I did see it claiming 120bpm at some points where I know it was higher. Wrapped up with some more stretching.

Thought tonight's stationary bike ride might be poor, since my legs still felt a little cooked from the unusual activities of the past few days - I was already up to 456 Garmin intensity minutes for the week just from Monday/Tuesday - but it was OK. Back at 60' + 33' CD, 96W average, 16 pseudo-miles at 15.2 mph, overwhelmingly Z3 . . . plus another 125 intensity minutes, Garmin says.

KevinD6112 wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Thought tonight's stationary bike ride might be poor, since my legs still felt a little cooked from the unusual activities of the past few days - I was already up to 456 Garmin intensity minutes for the week just from Monday/Tuesday - but it was OK. Back at 60' + 33' CD, 96W average, 16 pseudo-miles at 15.2 mph, overwhelmingly Z3 . . . plus another 125 intensity minutes, Garmin says.

what in the world does all that mean? I do stationary bike a lot and am curious. Thanks

I rode my stationary bike for an hour (60'), and afterward added an immediate 3-minute cool down (typo in there, should've been 3' CD but I accidentally typed 33' - oops). Usually, I start the cool down at the average power (in watts) for the hour ride, then try to drop it by 10 watts at each minute mark. That'll usually get my heart rate below 125 beats per minute before I stop pedaling.

The bike, which is technically a bike ergometer so gives me various semi-accurate statistics, said my average power output over the whole 63 minutes was 96 watts (96W average), and claimed I went 16 miles at an average of 15.2 miles per hour even though I was stock-still on the stationary bike in my living room so they weren't real miles (16 pseudo-miles at 15.2 mph). This is a kind of high-moderate-ish steady state pace, not stellar or super fast, even for my demographic.

My Garmin watch tracks my heart rate in 5 zones, zone 1 being the lowest. Well, technically, there's sort of a zone zero, not even counted as exercise. Zone 1, for me, starts at 91 beats per minute. The highest zone, zone 5, extends all the way up to my tested maximum heart rate.

The watch said 56 minutes and 27 seconds of this ride was in zone 3, which was 88% of the total time (so overwhelmingly Z3). If it matters, Z3 currently happens to be 127 to 144 beats per minute in my case based on maximum and resting heart rate. The rest of the ride's heart rate was below that - mostly occurred at the start, but a teensy bit more below zone 3 at the end of the cool down, too. The Garmin said there was another 22 beat per minute drop after I stopped pedaling, in what it saw as the recovery period post-exercise.

You didn't ask, maybe because you have a Garmin yourself and understood it, but the "intensity minutes" thing is basically Garmin's way of tracking that mainstream experts' idea that for basic health and fitness we should get 150 minutes per week of moderate cardiovascular exercise, or 75 minutes of more intense exercise, or a proportionate combination.

Garmin looks at intensity of the exercise the user did, splits the exercise time into moderate minutes and intense minutes. It then multiplies the intense minutes by 2, and adds the doubled intense minutes to the moderate minutes to get "intensity minutes" as a total. So after last night's (Wednesday) ride, I was at 581 of the expert-recommended 150 minutes I'd want to target for the Monday to Sunday week.

People who are serious about cycling look at Functional Threshold Power (FTP) as a key metric, testing it periodically and using it to plan progressive training. It's usually expressed either as watts, or watts per kilogram of body weight for comparability across people of different sizes. If you're interested, this seems like a reasonable overview article about cycling FTP and how to use it in training, with the caveat that I'm not a cyclist so I don't look at training in that way.

https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/what-ftp-really-means-to-cyclists/

I hope that makes sense now! If you have questions, please ask.

I know no one else here cares about all those details in my posts, but summing it up that way helps me stay focused on whether I'm keeping my workouts reasonable, making progress or not, etc. . . . a self-accountability thing.

I've been a cardiovascular-sport athlete for around 23 years (rower, not cyclist; the cycling is cross training and fun variety, plus alternating activity helps my aging body - now at age 69 - recover better). I started rowing while still obese, stayed obese training pretty hard for a dozen years, and even competing in both on water and machine rowing. I got used to tracking my workouts in ways like the above for training purposes, so have just kept doing it. I don't use cyclist metrics like percent FTP because I'm not really a cyclist.

You should just see how arcane my notation for the Winter rowing machine workouts can be! Stats for on-water rowing are probably more intelligible, though I semi-avoid the more obscure notations for either of those that we use among our rowing tribe.

Are you sorry you asked?

Today's gym workout: 18 min rowing machine, moderate pace, then 15 minutes calisthenics on the mat.

Today's plan is 3 mile run and stationary bike for 20 mins.

Leg Day

Squats 5x10
Deadlifts 5x5
Seated Calf Extend 4x10
Cable Crunch 3x10 <<superset>> Machine Low Back Extend 3x10 <<superset>> Plank 3x90s

Decided to completely change up my leg day (again). Used the hex bar for my deadlifts, was quite pleased to be able to work up in weight to where I stopped when I got hurt using the straight bar, but the hex bar had zero discomfort.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

KevinD6112 wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Thought tonight's stationary bike ride might be poor, since my legs still felt a little cooked from the unusual activities of the past few days - I was already up to 456 Garmin intensity minutes for the week just from Monday/Tuesday - but it was OK. Back at 60' + 33' CD, 96W average, 16 pseudo-miles at 15.2 mph, overwhelmingly Z3 . . . plus another 125 intensity minutes, Garmin says.

what in the world does all that mean? I do stationary bike a lot and am curious. Thanks

I rode my stationary bike for an hour (60'), and afterward added an immediate 3-minute cool down (typo in there, should've been 3' CD but I accidentally typed 33' - oops). Usually, I start the cool down at the average power (in watts) for the hour ride, then try to drop it by 10 watts at each minute mark. That'll usually get my heart rate below 125 beats per minute before I stop pedaling.

The bike, which is technically a bike ergometer so gives me various semi-accurate statistics, said my average power output over the whole 63 minutes was 96 watts (96W average), and claimed I went 16 miles at an average of 15.2 miles per hour even though I was stock-still on the stationary bike in my living room so they weren't real miles (16 pseudo-miles at 15.2 mph). This is a kind of high-moderate-ish steady state pace, not stellar or super fast, even for my demographic.

My Garmin watch tracks my heart rate in 5 zones, zone 1 being the lowest. Well, technically, there's sort of a zone zero, not even counted as exercise. Zone 1, for me, starts at 91 beats per minute. The highest zone, zone 5, extends all the way up to my tested maximum heart rate.

The watch said 56 minutes and 27 seconds of this ride was in zone 3, which was 88% of the total time (so overwhelmingly Z3). If it matters, Z3 currently happens to be 127 to 144 beats per minute in my case based on maximum and resting heart rate. The rest of the ride's heart rate was below that - mostly occurred at the start, but a teensy bit more below zone 3 at the end of the cool down, too. The Garmin said there was another 22 beat per minute drop after I stopped pedaling, in what it saw as the recovery period post-exercise.

You didn't ask, maybe because you have a Garmin yourself and understood it, but the "intensity minutes" thing is basically Garmin's way of tracking that mainstream experts' idea that for basic health and fitness we should get 150 minutes per week of moderate cardiovascular exercise, or 75 minutes of more intense exercise, or a proportionate combination.

Garmin looks at intensity of the exercise the user did, splits the exercise time into moderate minutes and intense minutes. It then multiplies the intense minutes by 2, and adds the doubled intense minutes to the moderate minutes to get "intensity minutes" as a total. So after last night's (Wednesday) ride, I was at 581 of the expert-recommended 150 minutes I'd want to target for the Monday to Sunday week.

People who are serious about cycling look at Functional Threshold Power (FTP) as a key metric, testing it periodically and using it to plan progressive training. It's usually expressed either as watts, or watts per kilogram of body weight for comparability across people of different sizes. If you're interested, this seems like a reasonable overview article about cycling FTP and how to use it in training, with the caveat that I'm not a cyclist so I don't look at training in that way.

https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/what-ftp-really-means-to-cyclists/

I hope that makes sense now! If you have questions, please ask.

I know no one else here cares about all those details in my posts, but summing it up that way helps me stay focused on whether I'm keeping my workouts reasonable, making progress or not, etc. . . . a self-accountability thing.

I've been a cardiovascular-sport athlete for around 23 years (rower, not cyclist; the cycling is cross training and fun variety, plus alternating activity helps my aging body - now at age 69 - recover better). I started rowing while still obese, stayed obese training pretty hard for a dozen years, and even competing in both on water and machine rowing. I got used to tracking my workouts in ways like the above for training purposes, so have just kept doing it. I don't use cyclist metrics like percent FTP because I'm not really a cyclist.

You should just see how arcane my notation for the Winter rowing machine workouts can be! Stats for on-water rowing are probably more intelligible, though I semi-avoid the more obscure notations for either of those that we use among our rowing tribe.

Are you sorry you asked?

not at all, Im very grateful for the in depth answer, Im always wanting to learn more when it comes to fitness and this is amazing. Thank you

nossmf wrote: »

Thursday

Workout: Cardio - Treadmill - 1 hr, 3.2 mph, 12% incline

Going from 3.0 mph to 3.1 mph had been going pretty well the last couple weeks, so I tried doing 3.2 mph this time. Got it done, but wow, was the sweat pouring off of me! Not sure how much I was dragging due to working out in the afternoon instead of my usual morning, vs simply pushing the speed up. But I really feel I earned that one!

Friday

Strength: Upper Body, DB Day

DB Bench Press BB Bench Press <<superset>> 1A DB Row 5x5
Incline Cable Fly 3x10
1A Pulldown 3x10
DB Shrugs 3x10
DB Arnold Press 3x10
DB Hammer Curl <<superset>> Lying DB Extend 3x10
Cable Side Crunches 2x10 <<alternate>> Side Plank 2x15 sec
Leg Press Drop Set 7x6 reps

Swapped the normally scheduled DB Bench for BB Bench, just to get more practice with the correct bar placement. While I was doing the cable side crunches I watched a gym buddy doing drop sets on the leg press, while another guy was watching in awe. The three of us struck up a conversation, and the next thing I know I'm warming up my legs to do a leg press drop set to match the other two guys, friendly gym competition thing. This was of course a super drop set, where the weight dropped six times for a total of 7 sets. One guy did 4 reps per, the original guy 5 reps, I had to show them both up and do 6. Felt great, but here's hoping I didn't inadvertently screw up my actual leg day tomorrow, lol.

1 hour at 3.2 on a 12% is wild, thats outstanding,.....Id need to call 911 after 3 minutes

KevinD6112 wrote: »

AnnPT77 I couldnt figure out how to edit my comment so Ill ask here,.....I loveeee lifting weights, do you think using the rowing machine would have a negative effect on my backworkouts, tiring it out too much?

Maybe. It depends.

First, let me say this: I'm not expert with weight lifting, though I've had some periods where I did it regularly. Other people should answer lifting questions. The complicating factor IMO is that some serious lifters seem to have a negative attitude toward intense cardio.

At the 50000 foot level, overdoing any form of exercise, or combination of exercises, will have a negative effect on fitness progress. Unfortunately for online advice-giving, what constitutes "overdoing" depends on the individual, and the combination of exercises. Some important variables about the exercise are the duration, frequency and intensity of the exercise sessions. The definition of "intensity" is activity specific, could be pace for running or rowing, could be rep/set count plus weight for lifting, etc.

I'd say: Think about total exercise load in terms of cumulative physical stress and fatigue: If we aren't very fit, any exercise is more stress than it would be for a fitter person. If we're well accustomed to a particular exercise at a particular intensity and duration, that exercise is less stress than some different thing we're quite new to doing, even if generically fit, because conditioning can be very activity specific. Too much total stress constitutes overdoing, and leads to under-recovery and over-fatigue.

Personally, I think the sweet spot for total exercise load is a schedule that's manageably challenging overall, and in each session. Ideally, while the exercise would be challenging while we do it, and we might have a few minutes of "whew" right after finishing the session, we want to be energized for the rest of the day(s), not fatigued to the point of dragging through the rest of life. With strength challenging exercise specifically, there may be some sore muscles - DOMS, delayed onset muscle soreness - when doing a new thing the first couple/few times, which is a little different from fatigue. DOMS is usually temporary.

If someone is new to exercise, I'd encourage them to work up gradually to a full exercise schedule, to avoid overdoing. Overdoing can be counter-productive for fitness development because we don't have enough recovery time in our schedule. Recovery - the time between sessions - is when the magic happens, the body rebuilding better after the useful stress of exercise. Overdoing can also be counter-productive for calorie burn because dragging through our days from fatigue will tend to bleed calorie burn out of daily life as we rest more and do less because of that fatigue.

An issue with rowing, for combining it with lifting, is the rowing can be somewhat strength challenging to a large number of muscle groups. That means it can compete more with lifting than some other types of cardio
when it comes to getting adequate recovery.

If your priority is general fitness, I'd probably suggest lifting before rowing if done on the same day, to give priority to strength development. (That would be my advice even though I'd personally do the rowing first, because rowing is my priority. My goals are different from general fitness, in other words.)

I'll let the lifting experts here give more nuanced advice about strength training routines, but very, very generically, it would be common to recommend that someone allow a full day of recovery after working a given muscle group, before working that same muscle group again. That could mean that alternating days, rowing day then lifting day, on repeat - that could hinder recovery, especially if new to rowing. For that reason, if doing both, I'd probably put both on the same day, to allow better recovery time. There are pros and cons, and the answer might depend on how conditioned the exerciser is to either or both activities, plus the nature of the strength training routine (i.e., does rowing stress the same muscle groups or different ones from the strength training).

Do you think the rowing machine is good cardio?

I do. It uses more muscle groups than most cardiovascular exercises, and even very fit people can be challenged by the activity. Elite rowers are very, very cardiovascularly fit people, up there with sports like cross-country skiing, speed skating, etc.

I do have a caveat: Most people I see using rowing machines in gyms have some misunderstandings and technical issues, because rowing is more technical than things like biking or elliptical. I see people doing things that will limit their long term ability to get a good workout, but more worrisomely, I see them doing things that can lead to injuries long term. Sadly, even many gym trainers row technically incorrectly.

If rowing, it's quite important to learn good technique. There are beginner videos at the Concept 2 web site or from Dark Horse Rowing on YouTube that show and describe good basic technique.

Out of the rowing machine, elliptical, stairmachine and stationary bike, which do you think is the best for burning the calories, based on say 75% effort? Thanks

I'm going to throw a curve ball here. I'd never tell someone to pick an exercise based on its calorie burn. I think what we want is the exercise we personally enjoy the most, or at least tolerate doing the best and find practical to do. (For some people, that calculation will include whether they can do the activity while combining it with something distracting like watching TV/videos, listening to podcasts, reading books, or whatever.)

I think what we're really trying to achieve is lifelong fitness, including healthy weight. In that context, exercise we'll actually do because we enjoy it is 100% more beneficial than a theoretically perfect exercise that feels miserable when we do it, so we procrastinate, skip it, or drop it entirely at the slightest excuse. Weight loss isn't a project with an end date, after which we "go back to normal". It's an experimental process looking for a "new normal" set of healthier habits we can live with long term, in my opinion, habits that can continue almost on autopilot when other parts of life get challenging.

Therefore, I'd strongly encourage you to try different exercises, and do ones that you enjoy more, and want to get better at. I love rowing so much I'd do it even if it weren't good for me, but it is. That's been a great thing, for me. (Truth in advertising: I love rowing the shells on water in season; I do the rowing machine in Winter less enthusiastically but do it anyway to stay in shape so I'll be ready to row boats come Spring. )

Apologies: Another essay. Sadly, I'm like that. 🙄🤷

Let the strength guys here tell you about lifting . . . but don't let anyone tell you "cardio will kill your gains". Yes, a person needs recovery in their schedule. Beyond that, intense cardio load might be an issue for serious bodybuilders, but even then some of it's probably a time budget and recovery issue, not an absolute. Good rowers don't look like bodybuilders, but they also aren't weasel-looking skeletons with no muscle. 😉 (Yes, they also lift as part of training.)

You can figure out what your fitness and athletic goals are, and you don't need to do it right away. Good basic strength and cardiovascular fitness are a reasonable basis for any goals you might choose in future, including the goal of a generally healthy and happy life. Start there, try things, you'll figure it out.

Best wishes!

AnnPT77 wrote: »

KevinD6112 wrote: »

AnnPT77 I couldnt figure out how to edit my comment so Ill ask here,.....I loveeee lifting weights, do you think using the rowing machine would have a negative effect on my backworkouts, tiring it out too much?

Maybe. It depends.

First, let me say this: I'm not expert with weight lifting, though I've had some periods where I did it regularly. Other people should answer lifting questions. The complicating factor IMO is that some serious lifters seem to have a negative attitude toward intense cardio.

@KevinD6112

To follow up on what @AnnPT77 wrote, cardio may have some negative effect on the value of your strength training. It doesn't have to though. It also depends on your goals.

Cardio is great. It supports a different part of our fitness from lifting. Lifting is great. It supports a different part of our fitness from cardio. As I understand, the interference can come if you do a lot of steady-state cardio immediately after a strength workout. There's several approaches to minimize this.

You could do cardio on different days from strength. That's my general approach. I do whole body workouts when I do strength training. Some people do leg days and upper body days. That doesn't leave many days for cardio. You could do your cardio earlier in the day and do strength later. You could even just do your cardio BEFORE your strength work. It very well could cause some fatigue that might limit your strength workout, but you might be less likely to reduce the benefits of the strength workout.

I do a short cool-down on the treadmill after a strength workout. It's short enough that it isn't an issue. I sometimes do a longer warm-up either on the treadmill or the ergometer. If I want to maximize the value of each, I just do them on different days. Swim today, lift tomorrow. Row the next day.

I can say that even if you reduce the benefits of your strength work by doing lots of cardio after, you're still better off than doing NOTHING. Keep sticking to it!

So today is going to be a repeat of yesterday for me. 3 mile run and 20 mins stationary bike. Stretching and foam rolling.

I'm a huge proponent of lifting, who does cardio mostly for heart health and to burn a few more calories during the week. I'm also a huge football fan, and you better believe those guys do both cardio and lifting on a regular basis!

I agree with the suggestion to alternate days of lifting with days of cardio, if each is done at a moderate or less intensity. (If you lift so hard or cardio so hard that you literally cannot walk to the locker room after, that is greater than moderate intensity.) Doing both on the same day is feasible, a little harder from a time spent exercising perspective, but doable.

Now begins the forever debate: should I do cardio first then lift, or lifting first then cardio? Lots of people have different opinions, and a lot of them boil down to figuring out which is more important to you, strength/muscle gains or cardio gains.

I say it's irrelevant, because the number one goal of every exerciser should be: stay safe, do not get hurt. This applies to lifting (proper form, don't lift too heavy) as well as cardio (stretch, warmup first, don't swim in the open ocean if you're still learning basic strokes). When it comes to doing one type or the other first, my opinion is to always do lifting first, and it's not because I'm a lifter. I came to this same conclusion back when I was a runner in school who was forced to do minimal lifting each week, hating every minute of it. (That's a whole other story...)

So why lift first? Simple: a tired lifter is more likely to get injured than a tired cardio. If you cardio tired, what often happens is you reduce intensity, either on purpose or subconsciously, making a less effective workout that does not hurt you. If you lift tired, your form can break down, your grip can slip, your joints can buckle, and next thing you know you are lying on the ground having just had a large piece of iron drop on top of you, possibly breaking bones, probably lots of bruising, possible sprained joints or torn ligaments from you desperately trying to either catch the weight or move it off path to NOT land on top of you.

*****

TL/DR: Best is to separate lifting and cardio sessions, either on different days or different times of day.
If doing them back-to-back, lift before cardio for safety.