Survey time: Should a guy pay on a first date?

Yes! The women should offer to pay and the man should refuse to let her. :happy: That's how it works people.

So agree!! What has happened to chivalry and women accepting acts of chivalry? when a man opens a door for me, I smile and say thank you, when a man pulls my chair out for me, I smile and say thank you, when a man won't let me help pay for dinner, I smile and say thank you....it doesn't mean I'm any less of an equal

He should. If he asks you to go out on a date, you shouldn't have to pay.

If this was an accurate representation of society it doesn't make it right. (not sure if I consider an MFP forum to be an accurate representation of society)
A hundred years ago, most societies didn't allow women to vote; does that mean we shoud have continued that policy/law?

I was wondering when (not if) it was going to get to this. Somehow men being men and doing men things to appreciate women, always gets turned into some equal rights ridiculousness that is completely unrelated.

I think it was you who brought up the suggestion that societal norms are the right way to do things? I was just responding to that notion.

I did, however...there's a bit of a difference...as anyone with a brain well knows...between paying for a date, which is doing something small FOR someone, and suppressing the rights of a whole section of our society.

I mean...if you see those two things as anywhere near comparable...I'll just stop responding to you now, because any further rational conversation will be made absolutely pointless, considering only one of us is rational.

They are comparable just on different scales, which doesn't make it irrelevant or irrational

Why can't a woman do something small for a man, like pay for dinner? Oops, forgot you're not respnding to me anymore

So...I hunt with a 30-06. During WW2, the Navy hunted with a 120mm M1.

Gotcha, comparable on different scales.

And as for your question about a woman doing something small for a man, like paying for dinner...that's great. If she wants to, she can do so for another man.

Again...I'm stating this very, very clearly. If she's so very independant that she cannot handle and/or appreciate the fact that I've been taught to show respect for my date by paying...then one of the very fundamental things required for a real relationships is going to be missing. Unless the other parts of our relationship are stellar (and even then...chances are it won't work), she should just move on and find someone more willing to allow her to express that independance as she pleases, without respect for him or the things he may or may not have been taught.

Wow, so far according to you my husband disrespects me and to what you had just said my relationship isn't a 'real' one since we had split our first date, a relationship that works just fine without that very critical fundamental part since things like caring, loving, respecting and appreciating each other aren't fundamental, nope just that the man had paid the first date is all which matters. I'm just glad the respect in my husband and I's relationship is about the who we are instead of catering to gender roles for show.

Wow, so far according to you my husband disrespects me and to what you had just said my relationship isn't a 'real' one since we had split our first date, a relationship that works just fine without that very critical fundamental part since things like caring, loving, respecting and appreciating each other aren't fundamental, nope just that the man had paid the first date is all which matters. I'm just glad the respect in my husband and I's relationship is about the who we are instead of catering to gender roles for show.

Actually, you've completely ran off and taken what I wrote out of context.

Taking it point by point:

Your husband DOES respect you for who you are...you just clearly don't understand that part of that IS respecting that you're a woman.

Your relationship may very well not be missing anything. Any relationship I had with a woman who had no respect for my belief system, which includes in a very basic sense respecting women by supporting them (even though in essence, we obviously support each other), would be missing something.

You and your husbands relationship can be all about whatever you like it to be...I couldn't honestly care less. If it works for you, I'm happy for you (genuinely). However, when you (specifically) come out, and point out MY belief system as controlling, and that my actions should be used to 'weed out' men like myself...expect a response. If you recall, I never judged you, or your relationship. It was you and the other woman doing the judging from the word go.

So how about you stop picking my posts apart and purposely misunderstanding them?

Wow, so far according to you my husband disrespects me and to what you had just said my relationship isn't a 'real' one since we had split our first date, a relationship that works just fine without that very critical fundamental part since things like caring, loving, respecting and appreciating each other aren't fundamental, nope just that the man had paid the first date is all which matters. I'm just glad the respect in my husband and I's relationship is about the who we are instead of catering to gender roles for show.

Actually, you've completely ran off and taken what I wrote out of context.

Taking it point by point:

Your husband DOES respect you for who you are...you just clearly don't understand that part of that IS respecting that you're a woman.

Your relationship may very well not be missing anything. Any relationship I had with a woman who had no respect for my belief system, which includes in a very basic sense respecting women by supporting them (even though in essence, we obviously support each other), would be missing something.

You and your husbands relationship can be all about whatever you like it to be...I couldn't honestly care less. If it works for you, I'm happy for you (genuinely). However, when you (specifically) come out, and point out MY belief system as controlling, and that my actions should be used to 'weed out' men like myself...expect a response. If you recall, I never judged you, or your relationship. It was you and the other woman doing the judging from the word go.

So how about you stop picking my posts apart and purposely misunderstanding them?

I didn't purposely misunderstand them. You stated how you weren't saying my husband disrespects but in the same line you stated that you just don't think I see it for what it is so in a way you were stating he does. You saying that is a form of disrespect is no different then me generalizing as the pay thing being controlling since you had generalized.

Wow, so far according to you my husband disrespects me and to what you had just said my relationship isn't a 'real' one since we had split our first date, a relationship that works just fine without that very critical fundamental part since things like caring, loving, respecting and appreciating each other aren't fundamental, nope just that the man had paid the first date is all which matters. I'm just glad the respect in my husband and I's relationship is about the who we are instead of catering to gender roles for show.

Actually, you've completely ran off and taken what I wrote out of context.

Taking it point by point:

Your husband DOES respect you for who you are...you just clearly don't understand that part of that IS respecting that you're a woman.

Your relationship may very well not be missing anything. Any relationship I had with a woman who had no respect for my belief system, which includes in a very basic sense respecting women by supporting them (even though in essence, we obviously support each other), would be missing something.

You and your husbands relationship can be all about whatever you like it to be...I couldn't honestly care less. If it works for you, I'm happy for you (genuinely). However, when you (specifically) come out, and point out MY belief system as controlling, and that my actions should be used to 'weed out' men like myself...expect a response. If you recall, I never judged you, or your relationship. It was you and the other woman doing the judging from the word go.

So how about you stop picking my posts apart and purposely misunderstanding them?

I didn't purposely misunderstand them. You stated how you weren't saying my husband disrespects but in the same line you stated that you just don't think I see it for what it is so in a way you were stating he does. You saying that is a form of disrespect is no different then me generalizing as the pay thing being controlling since you had generalized.

Ooook.

Lets try this again.

Reread what I wrote. I never said he didn't respect you, as a matter of fact in the initial post I made about your husband I CLEARLY wrote the opposite. I said you very likely don't understand the fact that part of how he respects you for who you are (remember?), is in fact respecting that you are a woman.

Funny that that's the only thing you could grab hold of out of all my responses to your argument.

The thing is you can do something for a man and still allow him to feel like a man. You can make him dinner in future dates. You could plan out dates further down the line etc. Or keep it simple: make him a sandwich and rub his back while he watches the game.

For the most part, I think with guys their options are a little more limited when it comes to showing their appreciation. Men and women just express their feelings differently. To a guy, paying for your dinner and opening the door is how he shows he really cares about you. When someone does something nice for you and you're like "No thanks I got it!" It comes across as more of "No thanks, I don't need you"

If the situation was different. Lets say you made dinner for your guy thinking it would be a sweet gesture but instead he responded to it like "No thanks but I can make my own food" How would you feel?

I would kiss your rosy red little cheeks, if I didn't think I would be allergic to dayglo yellow fur!

Wow, so far according to you my husband disrespects me and to what you had just said my relationship isn't a 'real' one since we had split our first date, a relationship that works just fine without that very critical fundamental part since things like caring, loving, respecting and appreciating each other aren't fundamental, nope just that the man had paid the first date is all which matters. I'm just glad the respect in my husband and I's relationship is about the who we are instead of catering to gender roles for show.

Actually, you've completely ran off and taken what I wrote out of context.

Taking it point by point:

Your husband DOES respect you for who you are...you just clearly don't understand that part of that IS respecting that you're a woman.

Your relationship may very well not be missing anything. Any relationship I had with a woman who had no respect for my belief system, which includes in a very basic sense respecting women by supporting them (even though in essence, we obviously support each other), would be missing something.

You and your husbands relationship can be all about whatever you like it to be...I couldn't honestly care less. If it works for you, I'm happy for you (genuinely). However, when you (specifically) come out, and point out MY belief system as controlling, and that my actions should be used to 'weed out' men like myself...expect a response. If you recall, I never judged you, or your relationship. It was you and the other woman doing the judging from the word go.

So how about you stop picking my posts apart and purposely misunderstanding them?

I didn't purposely misunderstand them. You stated how you weren't saying my husband disrespects but in the same line you stated that you just don't think I see it for what it is so in a way you were stating he does. You saying that is a form of disrespect is no different then me generalizing as the pay thing being controlling since you had generalized.

Ooook.

Lets try this again.

Reread what I wrote. I never said he didn't respect you, as a matter of fact in the initial post I made about your husband I CLEARLY wrote the opposite. I said you very likely don't understand the fact that part of how he respects you for who you are (remember?), is in fact respecting that you are a woman.

Funny that that's the only thing you could grab hold of out of all my responses to your argument.

The thing is you can do something for a man and still allow him to feel like a man. You can make him dinner in future dates. You could plan out dates further down the line etc. Or keep it simple: make him a sandwich and rub his back while he watches the game.

For the most part, I think with guys their options are a little more limited when it comes to showing their appreciation. Men and women just express their feelings differently. To a guy, paying for your dinner and opening the door is how he shows he really cares about you. When someone does something nice for you and you're like "No thanks I got it!" It comes across as more of "No thanks, I don't need you"

If the situation was different. Lets say you made dinner for your guy thinking it would be a sweet gesture but instead he responded to it like "No thanks but I can make my own food" How would you feel?

I would kiss your rosy red little cheeks, if I didn't think I would be allergic to dayglo yellow fur!

This is what you had wrote and reread it

"The fact remains that part of who you are, is a woman. If he doesn't respect that part as well...then he doesn't respect you (understand, I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm saying you likely don't see it for what it is)."

It looks like a polite way of trying to say he does disrespect me but without trying to be forward and just say it and as I stated before I did get alot of your prior posts but I don't see how this is any different on you calling me out about generalizing 'controlling' if you are doing the same with disrespect. If that's not what you meant fine but how you first wrote it it is not very clear.

Actually, you've completely ran off and taken what I wrote out of context.

Taking it point by point:

If you recall, I never judged you, or your relationship. It was you and the other woman doing the judging from the word go.

So how about you stop picking my posts apart and purposely misunderstanding them?

But you called me irrational....isn't that judging me?

Bravo! Excellent, on topic response!

First, what you wrote, if not irrational...was certainly a huge stretch.

Second, I...and those who believe as I do (that men should pay for the first date at minimum) were clearly judged first.

Would you like to comment on topic? Or have you run out of pertinent arguments that prove somehow that me paying for dates is controlling?

Yes, I expect the man to pay. If he asked me out. I also expect my man to hold the door open for me. These men seem to be a rare commidity these days though.

Its rare because those guys keep getting shut down by all the women who feel they need to prove how independent they are. Everyone gets it: a women can get a job and be independent. I have a good job and I'm independent but that doesn't mean that I'll be rude and shut down every guy who wants to pay for dates, hold doors open, order for me and pull out my chair.

I think some women just have hang ups for whatever reason. Maybe they had issues growing up or something, who knows. Whether it be from a man or whatever, when someone does something nice for you its only polite to allow them to do it. If a man offers to pay for you, then let him pay. It's not a control thing, he's just trying to be nice.

I'm so glad I'm not a man lol. You guys try to be nice to a girl and she just calls you a psycho control freak. Crazy.

UMMMM... YES! And if he doesn't walk out and stick him with the bill anyway. And even before you get to the restaurant, the man should be opening car and restaurant doors for you, pullin' out your chair, etc. If he isn't, he is not the kind of man you want anyway! Some guys these days have no idea what it means to be a gentleman and too many women are letting them get away with it. Women: expect your man to be a gentleman, and if he isn't right now, HE CAN BE TAUGHT!

Taught?? Seriously?? You are why guys think all girl are crazy bitches...

Did he ask you out? Then hell yes!

not sure! Really i think pay half and half, but I don't know if a guy would dig that lol... would they?

UMMMM... YES! And if he doesn't walk out and stick him with the bill anyway. And even before you get to the restaurant, the man should be opening car and restaurant doors for you, pullin' out your chair, etc. If he isn't, he is not the kind of man you want anyway! Some guys these days have no idea what it means to be a gentleman and too many women are letting them get away with it. Women: expect your man to be a gentleman, and if he isn't right now, HE CAN BE TAUGHT!

Taught?? Seriously?? You are why guys think all girl are crazy bitches...

THANK YOU! I'm not a man or anything, but I don't think a man would appreciate basically being put on the same level as children or pets who can be "taught" or "trained."

Hello all,
I havent read all of the comments in depth so apologise if I am repeating anyone but I believe this question is all about self worth!

Women do not value themselves enough in this day and age and if you are taken out for dinner think back 50/60 yrs and act how those ladies would act. Graciously accept to be taken out and paid for..................you are worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Believe it!!!!!! Trust yourself girls and do not even take out any money, imagine how much the man offering thinks that you are worth then! Not in a big headed way, of course! Any man will tell you he wants to treat a woman, make her feel good and special. If all fails he can always wash up

UMMMM... YES! And if he doesn't walk out and stick him with the bill anyway. And even before you get to the restaurant, the man should be opening car and restaurant doors for you, pullin' out your chair, etc. If he isn't, he is not the kind of man you want anyway! Some guys these days have no idea what it means to be a gentleman and too many women are letting them get away with it. Women: expect your man to be a gentleman, and if he isn't right now, HE CAN BE TAUGHT!

Taught?? Seriously?? You are why guys think all girl are crazy bitches...

THANK YOU! I'm not a man or anything, but I don't think a man would appreciate basically being put on the same level as children or pets who can be "taught" or "trained."

Actually, most of us just think it's cute. Men in general don't become offended by gender stereotypes. I don't scratch myself in public, nor pass gas in a crowded restaurant just to see everyones reactions...but my little brother does, and so I know there's a basis for those stereotypes.

I'm not sure why such a large sector of the female population do. Actually, I should correct that. I'm not sure why the small sector of the female population that DOES get offended by it, has to have such a big mouth about it.