Home school vs public school?

As a certified, licensed school teacher, I am always concerned when parents pull their children out of regular school and say they will be "homeschooling" their child from that point forward. I will share my reasons below:

4. Schools provide the opportunity for children to learn HOW to get along with others, even if the children are being bullied. Instead of retreating into a "safe" world, it is better to learn how to handle the bullying and work on developing self esteem. Running away from it doesn't build self confidence, it only pushes the real issues aside.

Only a "certified, licensed school teacher" could point to bullying as a positive aspect of school.

Kudos to all the parents who pull their kids out of schools where being picked on and beat up by larger children is seen as a good thing by the adults who run the place.

Oh thank goodness. I thought I was the only one seeing that.

Bullying is such a GOOD thing for kids. That's why there are so many programs trying to STAMP OUT bullying.

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but since I went to public school, was homeschooled AND cyberschooled over the course of my educational journey I would have to say that it would depend on the individual and what THEY want. I didn't strive in my public school: they didn't move fast enough for me and I was always ahead of the other kids, because of this my mom pulled me out to homeschool me. I didn't like it at all so I went back to public school and had the same issues. We found cyberschool and I went to one in PA called PALCS. It was without a doubt the best experience of my life. Not only was I being taught by real teachers instead of my parents, but there were many activities for the students to meet up at and many programs to be involved with. You CAN still join sports and I don't know about where you live, but in PA it was against the law to deny a homeschooled / cyberschooled kid a chance to join a sports team at the home school's team. So all that mumbo jumbo about homeschooled/cyberschooled kids being 'left out' of things is completely bogus.

In the end, it's what the child feels most comfortable with and what the parents feel would be best for their child. I will always support cyberschooling over homeschooling though, just because you have teachers showing you the work, grading it and you will have that one-on-one time with them via webcam chatrooms and the like.

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but since I went to public school, was homeschooled AND cyberschooled over the course of my educational journey I would have to say that it would depend on the individual and what THEY want. I didn't strive in my public school: they didn't move fast enough for me and I was always ahead of the other kids, because of this my mom pulled me out to homeschool me. I didn't like it at all so I went back to public school and had the same issues. We found cyberschool and I went to one in PA called PALCS. It was without a doubt the best experience of my life. Not only was I being taught by real teachers instead of my parents, but there were many activities for the students to meet up at and many programs to be involved with. You CAN still join sports and I don't know about where you live, but in PA it was against the law to deny a homeschooled / cyberschooled kid a chance to join a sports team at the home school's team. So all that mumbo jumbo about homeschooled/cyberschooled kids being 'left out' of things is completely bogus.

In the end, it's what the child feels most comfortable with and what the parents feel would be best for their child. I will always support cyberschooling over homeschooling though, just because you have teachers showing you the work, grading it and you will have that one-on-one time with them via webcam chatrooms and the like.

Kelley-- we've had friends do the cyber school in PA who also have enjoyed it. I'm in Jersey, right across the border from PA. Here in New Jersey, the New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association recently changed its bylaws, now granting access to homeschooled students.

But--

they left it up to each school district to decide eligibility. My lovely district has decided that eligibility #1 is "must be enrolled in school." Gee, tanks for nuttin.

I've contacted my state Senator and Assemblymen and supposedly legislation is underway similar to PA-- but, we'll see.

As a certified, licensed school teacher, I am always concerned when parents pull their children out of regular school and say they will be "homeschooling" their child from that point forward. I will share my reasons below:

4. Schools provide the opportunity for children to learn HOW to get along with others, even if the children are being bullied. Instead of retreating into a "safe" world, it is better to learn how to handle the bullying and work on developing self esteem. Running away from it doesn't build self confidence, it only pushes the real issues aside.

Only a "certified, licensed school teacher" could point to bullying as a positive aspect of school.

Kudos to all the parents who pull their kids out of schools where being picked on and beat up by larger children is seen as a good thing by the adults who run the place.

^LIKE

I'm out of this one. Enjoy.

I understand your frustrations. I also am a mom, and I agree that public school in the US needs a serious kick in the *kitten*. I abhor NCLB, and feel the testing is ridiculous and not an accurate reflection of a student's ability or intelligence. I also think the testing does not fairly assess student knowledge -- there is more to a student's ability to learn than answering a few test questions.

Applause! :flowerforyou:
It's that way in college too.

I have made myself perfectly clear when it comes to home schooling children. I won't elaborate further, because someone will find a way to twist my words around, and I won't put up with that.

As for my comment "dealing with issues like bullying", perhaps I need to make myself totally clear: I DO NOT TOLERATE BULLYING BEHAVIOR AND WILL DEAL WITH IT IMMEDIATELY. And yes, I HAVE dealt with it in my school numerous times, and will walk over a pile of glass shards, nails and fish hooks to protect a child's welfare. Enough said.

I believe you, Wordnerd. But nonetheless your phrasing seemed to point out that bullying was overall something beneficial to students.

Also, there is plenty of evidence that homeschoolers do better than average. Here is a CBS report, for example:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37242551/can-homeschoolers-do-well-in-college/

I chose this report so you could not claim it was a homeschooling organization that did the research, and was therefore biased. And, as I pointed out previously, homeschooling has two facets which teachers claim are vital to educating a student: Parental Involvement and small classes. There is considerable evidence in fact that homeschooling is the most effective educational model (but I am NOT saying it is for everyone.) It is particularly imporessive how well brighter students do in the home schooling model as compared to the public school model.

In fact I have frequently heard teachers excuse the poor perfomance of certain schools because the students there had little parental involvement. With home schooling parental involvement is 100%, and class size is as small as it can get generally. Based on the results, it is the best educational model. So why aren't you praising homeschooling instead of saying you only approve of it when..... (then comes your list)? Do you have any study or data to suggest that homeschooling doesn''t work as well as people claim? Bear in mind, aprophrypical data cuts in both directions and is not really scientifically valid. I am seriously asking if you have any HARD data or studies debunking the benefits of home schooling. I have honestly never seen any such data or study, and I would be interested if you have.

I have made myself perfectly clear when it comes to home schooling children. I won't elaborate further, because someone will find a way to twist my words around, and I won't put up with that.

As for my comment "dealing with issues like bullying", perhaps I need to make myself totally clear: I DO NOT TOLERATE BULLYING BEHAVIOR AND WILL DEAL WITH IT IMMEDIATELY. And yes, I HAVE dealt with it in my school numerous times, and will walk over a pile of glass shards, nails and fish hooks to protect a child's welfare. Enough said.

I believe you, Wordnerd. But nonetheless your phrasing seemed to point out that bullying was overall something beneficial to students.

Also, there is plenty of evidence that homeschoolers do better than average. Here is a CBS report, for example:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37242551/can-homeschoolers-do-well-in-college/

I chose this report so you could not claim it was a homeschooling organization that did the research, and was therefore biased. And, as I pointed out previously, homeschooling has two facets which teachers claim are vital to educating a student: Parental Involvement and small classes. There is considerable evidence in fact that homeschooling is the most effective educational model (but I am NOT saying it is for everyone.) It is particularly imporessive how well brighter students do in the home schooling model as compared to the public school model.

In fact I have frequently heard teachers excuse the poor perfomance of certain schools because the students there had little parental involvement. With home schooling parental involvement is 100%, and class size is as small as it can get generally. Based on the results, it is the best educational model. So why aren't you praising homeschooling instead of saying you only approve of it when..... (then comes your list)? Do you have any study or data to suggest that homeschooling doesn''t work as well as people claim? Bear in mind, aprophrypical data cuts in both directions and is not really scientifically valid. I am seriously asking if you have any HARD data or studies debunking the benefits of home schooling. I have honestly never seen any such data or study, and I would be interested if you have.

I'm not AGAINST home schooling, what more do you need from me to hear that? I am AGAINST parents who take a rather lenient approach to home schooling by NOT monitoring their children's work, teaching them irrelevant or incorrect information, allowing the student to learn "whatever" they want instead of what they SHOULD be learning, and parents who are unqualified to teach their children (regardless of having access to the internet). For example, I have seen shows where "homeschool" parents claim their children are learning music. How? They give them an instrument and say "make noise, that's your lesson." How can a parent with NO musical background claim to be able to teach a child all the intricacies of reading notes, doing scales, the circle of fifths, etc, WITHOUT ANY MUSICAL EDUCATION? Or, a parent who takes their children to ride rollercoasters and says "Here's your physics lesson today, up and down we go!" WITHOUT explaining the concepts of terminal velocity, potential versus kinectic energy, inertia, etc. THESE are the people who frighten me - the ones who aren't really "teaching their children" anything practical or in-depth.

Homeschool programs containing curriculum decided by the state, monitored by teachers, and given by parents are the ONLY ones I approve of. The rest are dangerous and do not prepare a child for the real world.

Now, have I made myself TOTALLY CLEAR?

"Homeschool programs containing curriculum decided by the state, monitored by teachers, and given by parents are the ONLY ones I approve of. The rest are dangerous and do not prepare a child for the real world."


Wow. Finally. Someone who was honest enough to say it. The STATE owns the children. The STATE has to decide what is taught to my children to make their education acceptable. Despite hundreds of years of parents educating their children, it is now only teachers who can truly validate a homeschool program.

I pray our country never comes to make your approval standards normative.

I have made myself perfectly clear when it comes to home schooling children. I won't elaborate further, because someone will find a way to twist my words around, and I won't put up with that.

As for my comment "dealing with issues like bullying", perhaps I need to make myself totally clear: I DO NOT TOLERATE BULLYING BEHAVIOR AND WILL DEAL WITH IT IMMEDIATELY. And yes, I HAVE dealt with it in my school numerous times, and will walk over a pile of glass shards, nails and fish hooks to protect a child's welfare. Enough said.

I believe you, Wordnerd. But nonetheless your phrasing seemed to point out that bullying was overall something beneficial to students.

Also, there is plenty of evidence that homeschoolers do better than average. Here is a CBS report, for example:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37242551/can-homeschoolers-do-well-in-college/

I chose this report so you could not claim it was a homeschooling organization that did the research, and was therefore biased. And, as I pointed out previously, homeschooling has two facets which teachers claim are vital to educating a student: Parental Involvement and small classes. There is considerable evidence in fact that homeschooling is the most effective educational model (but I am NOT saying it is for everyone.) It is particularly imporessive how well brighter students do in the home schooling model as compared to the public school model.

In fact I have frequently heard teachers excuse the poor perfomance of certain schools because the students there had little parental involvement. With home schooling parental involvement is 100%, and class size is as small as it can get generally. Based on the results, it is the best educational model. So why aren't you praising homeschooling instead of saying you only approve of it when..... (then comes your list)? Do you have any study or data to suggest that homeschooling doesn''t work as well as people claim? Bear in mind, aprophrypical data cuts in both directions and is not really scientifically valid. I am seriously asking if you have any HARD data or studies debunking the benefits of home schooling. I have honestly never seen any such data or study, and I would be interested if you have.

I'm not AGAINST home schooling, what more do you need from me to hear that? I am AGAINST parents who take a rather lenient approach to home schooling by NOT monitoring their children's work, teaching them irrelevant or incorrect information, allowing the student to learn "whatever" they want instead of what they SHOULD be learning, and parents who are unqualified to teach their children (regardless of having access to the internet). For example, I have seen shows where "homeschool" parents claim their children are learning music. How? They give them an instrument and say "make noise, that's your lesson." How can a parent with NO musical background claim to be able to teach a child all the intricacies of reading notes, doing scales, the circle of fifths, etc, WITHOUT ANY MUSICAL EDUCATION? Or, a parent who takes their children to ride rollercoasters and says "Here's your physics lesson today, up and down we go!" WITHOUT explaining the concepts of terminal velocity, potential versus kinectic energy, inertia, etc. THESE are the people who frighten me - the ones who aren't really "teaching their children" anything practical or in-depth.

Homeschool programs containing curriculum decided by the state, monitored by teachers, and given by parents are the ONLY ones I approve of. The rest are dangerous and do not prepare a child for the real world.

Now, have I made myself TOTALLY CLEAR?

Perhaps.. Perhaps not. It sounded at first that what you were objecting to was unschooling. But when you said, "Homeschooling programs containing curriculum decided by the state, monitored by teachers and given by parents are the only ones I approve of." then it sounded like you were objecting to virtually every homeschooling situation.

First of all, I should tell you that when we decided to homeschool we did so for several reasons, one of which was that we did NOT want the state to tell us what to teach and what our children had to know. Since we were in Connecticut we have complete leeway in any event, but at the time the superintendents were lobbying the legislature to restrict home schooling. To make a long story short, we kicked the superintendents' butts.

The model we used for our home school was the WELL TRAINED MIND. This is a classical homeschooling model based on the trivium, including Latin, rhetoric and other non traditional subjects. Neither my wife nor I have ever taken an education course in our lives, but we both have advanced degrees. We had no problem setting up our home school, and in fact I became the de facto Latin teacher for all the home schoolers in my area. We used a local church and had weekly Latin instruction. (I have studied both classical Greek and classical Latin.)

You are quite correct in saying that we had no subject matter knowledge of certain subjects, although physics was NOT one of those subjects, so we utilized other homeschooing classes (e.g., ballroom dancing, Shaolin Kempo Karate, et al) for some subjects and other resources (outside piano lessions) and the local community college for others. Eventually our kids took so many community college courses they matriculated as degree students and both earned their Associates Degree. My son got his AA when he was 17, then transferred as a junior to the University of Connecticut where he graduated with honors at age 19. My daughter actually earned her associates a year ago when she was 15, but we kept her enrolled in the community college because we didn't want to send a 15 year old off to live in the dorms. She will be receiving her Associates Degree June 1st, and has also been accepted as a transfer student to UConn. My son is finishing up his first year of law school.

What we did saved us a ton of money, and eliminated a lot of what we considered wasteful time. Homeschooling is quite efficient, and has the advantage of allowing a kid to pursue their interests. My daughter, for example is a brilliant (if I do say so myself) creative writer, and she applied to the highly competative Iowa Young Writers' Studio, was accepted and will soon be leaving for that. (600 highly recommended high school and home school kids apply, and only 132 are accepted based their writing sample.)

I am giving you all of this detail because I do want to impress on you the fact that the state's curriculum is not necessarily the best, and it is the essence of democracy that that not everyone be put in the same mold. The cookie cutter mentality is in fact one of my big objections to government schools I really think we did a good job as non-professionals, and we know plenty of others who have done the same. Our kids are above average but not geniuses. I believe that any above average kid can thrive using the strategy we employed, and can do better than if they had stayed in public school. My kids are younger than most college freshmen, and are entering, or have entered the University as juniors. We have saved the cost of two years of education, and we saved years of time.

Homeschooling rules!

I just would also like to add that everyone seems to be using examples of people they know in their.

My brother who was homeschooled...

I know a girl who was home schooled and...

You can't make a generalization from one example. Please, let's think scientifically here and stop going off on a whim.

Thanks.

Signed, educational researcher.

Wow, lots of debating going on here...so I didn't read through the whole thread. But I'm going to throw in my two cents.

I was homeschooled my entire life (along with my 5 siblings). I never went to public school (well, not until college). I have seen homeschooling done "right", and I have seen it done "wrong". If anyone is considering homeschooling, I recommend taking the following into account:

1. (And this is priority #1) What is best for the child? What type of environment would they do better in? This isn't an easy question to answer, and it depends a lot on HOW you would be homeschooling them.
2. How much time do you have to spend teaching your child? My mom was a "stay-at-home" mom, and therefore we had a parent around to sit down with us and teach us.
3. How educated are you? Do you really know enough about a subject to teach someone? My parents were both smart and had college degrees. My mom was better with social studies and English, and my dad was better with advanced math and science. So when we were younger, my mom handled most of our schooling, and when we got to the high school years, my dad handled more of it. This arrangement worked out pretty well. But I have also parents that aren't very educated homeschool their children, and the result wasn't so great. On the flip side of the coin, depending on the subject, it can be fun to learn together! Example: maybe you don't know much about Greek or Roman history, but you can read and learn about it together as a family.
4. How structured will your schooling be? Will you have set classroom hours? Planned lessons? Or play it by ear? This will probably depend a lot on your family schedule and the type of environment your child works best in. Some families have set school hours, with specific subjects at specific times. Our family tried to have somewhat of a regular schedule, but we didn't do our schoolwork in any particular order. Also, since I am ADD, homeschooling allowed me to do more of my work when I was feeling focused. However, that's not always how it works in the real world, and having a regulated schedule might have helped me deal with my ADD better. Also, this is one of the things I often see done very wrong with homeschool families: I see a lot of families with no real structure and no curriculum, and the kids basically running wild.
5. What kind of social interactions will your child be getting? Very important! This is one of the highly debated issues with homeschooling, and is often done very very wrong...but it can be done right. When I was in college and people found out I had been homeschooled, they would say "wow! but you're normal!" We were involved in all sorts of stuff as a kid: church groups, scouting, sports, co-ops, etc. Check to see what kind of co-op groups are available in your area. We had co-op groups that regularly met for stuff like music, art, history, and PE. Some clubs at local schools are open to homeschoolers, too. I was on a robotics team in high school that was through our local high school, but also open to homeschoolers. You can also get involved with various camps that are run through public school programs or The Y. If your child wants to play a sport competitively, that might be an issue...but I think there are ways around that, too.
6. What kind of curriculum will you be teaching? I think some states have more specific requirements than others, and you may be required to follow certain guidelines. I remember when I was younger, my parents had to submit their curriculum for review, and we had to take standardized tests every year (these requirements changed at some point, though).
7. What subjects will you be teaching? There are standard subjects that everyone should know. And again, you might have certain state requirements. Colleges expect certain subjects to be taught in high school, and if you don't do it then you might have trouble in college, or even trouble getting in. But one of the great things about homeschooling is that you can tailor the classes to the child's interests. (This can be especially good for kids with asperger's or other forms of autism.) Example: my little sister is currently obsessed with everything Japanese...so she is working on learning to read/write/speak Japanese and studying Japanese history and culture.
8. Will you have other classes, or have someone else teaching your child? If you are not knowledgeable in a particular area, you can sign your child up for a class or get a tutor. Example: if you're not familiar enough with pre-calculus, you can sign up for a class at a local tech school.
9. I know I had more points in mind, but I can't remember them at the moment...I might add more later.

All that being said, I don't plan to homeschool my own children. Why? Firstly, both of us will probably be working, so we won't have someone at home all day to teach. Secondly, I know myself, and I would probably slack off on having a regular, structured curriculum. Thirdly, I believe public schools are just fine (maybe even better) AS LONG AS THE PARENTS ARE INVOLVED. I am not going to dump my kids into a school system and expect someone else to teach my child everything without me having to do anything. I will make sure my kids at least know how to read and count before they go to school, and I will be involved with their learning once they do.

wordnerd-- I'm a Christian, but my kids are taught both theories.

Homeschool programs containing curriculum decided by the state, monitored by teachers, and given by parents are the ONLY ones I approve of. The rest are dangerous and do not prepare a child for the real world.

Now, have I made myself TOTALLY CLEAR?


I'm sorry. But my children are MY children. They do not and have not ever belonged to the state. The CREATOR of the universe entrusted ME with their lives and souls. I, alone, will be held accountable for their upbringing, not you and certainly not the state. It is my duty to protect them from harm, to raise them to be conscientious, to teach them our beliefs, and to love them unconditionally. If they have all the "education" the world has to offer, yet their souls perish, all is lost. So, as far as I am able, I will protect their hearts, souls and bodies from the nastiness of the world until such a time comes that they are ready to take on the world themselves with firm foundations set in place. I will educate them in the areas that I believe are important to their upbringing, which for us not only includes math, reading, history and science, but most importantly, the Word of G_d.

My oldest will graduated college a year early, my 14 year old has written and published a book, my 16 year old teaches himself chemistry and gets straight A's on all his exams. I'm really not worried about hoping for your or the state's approval.


PS To the moderator, remember how someone complained about skimpy photos and everyone jumped on the person, claiming that we are all adults here? Well, the same applies to this discussion and I would hope that you will not delete my post simply because I shared my reasons for homeschooling my children. Thanks.


Aha - I see your point of view is based on religious principles. I'm curious to know if your science instruction interferes with your religious beliefs? I am not being snarky, but I really do want to know how the two are integrated into the instruction. I am Catholic but also an evolutionist. Fortunately for ME, the Catholic church recognizes evolution as a possible THEORY. And no, I am not going to turn this into a debate between the two, so please don't go there. I just want to know how you teach both simultaneously when both theories highly contradict each other.

Given that neither theory can be proven, and both are a matter of faith, how is it that one faith theory can be taught without the "religious" attack, while the other cannot? Why is faith in random chance okay to teach, but faith in an intelligent designer not? Why is theory A, which cannot be repeated or proven, considered "science", while theory B, which cannot be repeated or proven, considered "religion"? How can any thinking person not see the bias in this approach?

I have made myself perfectly clear when it comes to home schooling children. I won't elaborate further, because someone will find a way to twist my words around, and I won't put up with that.

As for my comment "dealing with issues like bullying", perhaps I need to make myself totally clear: I DO NOT TOLERATE BULLYING BEHAVIOR AND WILL DEAL WITH IT IMMEDIATELY. And yes, I HAVE dealt with it in my school numerous times, and will walk over a pile of glass shards, nails and fish hooks to protect a child's welfare.

BUT, I do believe children MUST be given the tools and tactics to deal with social issues like bullying, anxiety, etc. They need to learn how to face their fears, instead of retreat from them. How? I'm not sure, but hiding from the world is not the answer, nor is allowing the bullying behavior to go unnoticed and not addressed. The child must learn to stand up for himself/herself, tell a parent or adult, and not let it go. Bear in mind that MOST bullying behavior happens outside the view or control of a teacher (because, well, that's the best time and place to do it, right?) There is only so much we educators can do -- the rest is up to the child and the parents. If it is the teacher who is bullying the kid, that teacher should be immediately fired, to heck with the contract.

As a parent whose two kids were bullied, AND someone who was bullied herself all through middle school AND high school, I can assure you that my self confidence and self esteem continues to be affected to this day. One of the main reasons I became a middle school teacher is to help students in that age group find their voice and their courage to deal with their issues. That is my JOB as a teacher and role model, and I accept it happily.

A final note: I am also a black belt in tae kwon do. My teenage daughter (the one who has been bullied) takes martial arts as a way to build confidence and self esteem. She is very capable of handling herself in a variety of difficult situations. I totally advocate that children who feel weak and unempowered take confidence building courses, martial arts being one of them. It isn't a license to beat someone up, it's a way to teach discipline, control and empowerment.

How does one build self esteem and self confidence? By being confronted with bullies and learning how to deal with that behavior or by building that self esteem BEFORE having to confront the bullies of this world? Have there been studies done on this?

In my experience homeschooling allowed me to build my self-confidence and self-esteem PRIOR to being bullied. I emerged from homeschooling with confidence and swagger. The first time I experienced bullying was in my early adulthood and I was able to handle it just as well as anyone else who had experienced bullying earlier in life... if not better (judging by the people I know).

My siblings emerged from public school beaten down and socially crippled.

That's just my experience but the people in my family have the opinion now that if children are raised in friendly environments, where they aren't having to deal with conflict, they are able to more fully develop their sense of self worth and confidence. Of course this is probably highly dependent on the personality of the child.

I think it'd be an interesting thing to study. To figure out if children thrive BEST in environments devoid of inter-personal conflict (in the form of emotional, physical abuse from bullies) or if they thrive best when confronted with these challenges.

How can any thinking person not see the bias in this approach?

Because one is written in a religious text--the Bible. The other is not. However, it's your choice to teach what you'd like