Home school vs public school?

I think it's clear from my previous posts in this thread that I support homeschooling. I also support public schooling, and private schooling. I'm pro-child. I've come to this conclusion through my own studies as I work toward my teaching certification in Language Arts, as well as my own experiences and those of people I know. Homeschooling isn't for everyone. But neither is public school. Most homeschoolers I know give their children a well-rounded education, in some cases exploring more topics than can ever be covered in public school. Some don't. Some public schools are AWESOME about looking out for the individual needs of the students. Some aren't.

The bottom line is that kids can get a fantastic education either at home or in formal schooling. What's important is the child. What does the child need? Where can the child thrive and learn best? What resources and support are available to the family? I don't see a problem with pulling a child out of school if she has severe social anxiety. Those anxieties CAN be overcome in a homeschooling environment, sometimes more easily than in a public school one. Sometimes it doesn't work. But if homeschooling doesn't work out, the child can always go back to public school, just as a student who's struggling in public school can always make the switch to homeschooling. It's not a "vs." thing. There's no fight to the finish. The ONLY important thing is the child. Making sure that child gets a good education in the safest environment possible.

My gut instinct is to worry they wouldn't be socialized enough, however each kid is different.... However I've had several friends in college who went from homeschooled to a large state university (like the size of Notre Dame, Purdue, etc) and did not adjust well at all.

I'd also worry that the parents would let their bias color their education.

I always wonder why, if a homeschooled child doesn't adjust at university, we say 'Aha! It is because they were homeschooled!', whereas if a public schooled child doesn't adjust at university, we blame something else.

I've known plenty of students from all backgrounds who didn't adjust well at university.

Note -- this isn't saying that you can't mess up homeschooling. You can. But statistically, a fair percentage of *all* students don't adjust well.

So I know I said I was out, but I want to put in my opinion on the religion thing:

I'm Christian. If I homeschooled, we'd have Christian education. But we would also be learning about the other major world religions: Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc. We are European-American, but we would also be learning about the histories of other cultural groups in our country, and around the world. I understand that in our society, white Christians are the majority. But there are countless other cultures that our children will encounter in their lives. No, we can't cover them all. But if we cover as many as possible, they will be more open-minded and accepting of differences. It's important to give kids a multicultural education, whether in public school, private school, or homeschool.

Even though we used a primarily Christian curriculum (Bob Jones anyone.... and let me remind, this was before there were many decent choices at least for those of us living overseas (in the early 90s)) as we are a Christian family... we too also learned about other religions. We have always had (for as long as I can remember) a Book of Mormon, a Quran, the Apocrypha and other books and writings on other religions in our house as well. I myself was always interested in the pantheism of the Greek and Roman persuasion....

That is terrific too! I like to hear stories like this, because it puts me at ease knowing that there are people out there who can look beyond their Christian-centric beliefs and remain open and accepting of differences of something that is solely based on a series of beliefs.

I homeschooled my children for 10 yrs then because of health issues I had to put the younger ones in public school. I really think it depends on the child also if you homeschool you have to be willing to put the work into it and do projects with your kids and do alot of hands on , discussions and field trips. We belonged to a homeschool group where we went on field trips together at least 2xs a month , we also had activity days where we would get together for sports, art, music, science projects, public speaking, etc. My kids also had their church activities, youth group and gymnastics classes. All of my older children went on to college and are doing really well. Infact 2 of my daughters went to college while still in high school and got double credit for it. So for us homeschooling worked.

I do not feel that Christian home schoolers should have to study the Quran, nor should Muslim home schoolers have to study the Bible. Since Christianity is the basis for Western Civiliztion, and the Bible is referenced in much of Western Literature, I think the study of both would be appropriate in public schools. Being a classics lover, I would also include study of the pre Christian classical world, particularly Greece and Rome. When I went to High School, fortunately, Classical Latin was required for the top academic track. I think understanding our civilization requires study of the most important books in our civilization including the Bible (but not the Quran - different civilization.) I certainly have no objection to the study of any religious text as a secular subject, but I would prefer the Bible since it is so basic to our culture.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Many of our words, morals, laws, etc... are founded off of the Christian faith. That's just how it works when you live in the Western world. It doesn't hurt to learn a little bit about what Christianity believes, even if you're not teaching children it's necessarily true.

It would also be nice to teach kids a little about the First Nations people and their faith systems as well though.

It also doesn't hurt to teach children about OTHER faiths, because it leads to acceptance, tolerance, and the willingness to remain open minded instead of coming across as judgmental and exclusionary. Not to mention sanctimonious and self-righteous.

Doesn't hurt but there's only so much time and room in a classroom and I should think the religions prevalent in our society would be the ones that should take pride of place in the educational process.

That's pretty much how North Korea educates their children - they only learn about their own culture, and to heck with the rest of the world. And we all know how well North Korea has accepted and gets along with the rest of the Western world.

Except there is a difference between us and North Korea... we are multicultural, with many sociatal influences... we also provide (whether directly or indirectly) access to information that is outside of our culture and society... Whereas, North Korea is not and does not.

There is an analogy in there that says: "If a person focuses solely on one specific idealogy to the exclusion of everything else, then that is indoctrination, not education." If a person only teaches Christianity (or Judaism or Buddhism or Communism, etc) to the exclusion of all other religions, then that is indoctrination, not education. It sets the person who is being taught up to learn that "all else does not matter, because this is all you need to know". It fascinates me how people can claim to be Christian, yet not be willing to accept others' points of view. Technically, that's in direct opposition to Christ's teachings about loving others as He has loved you.

I think it's clear from my previous posts in this thread that I support homeschooling. I also support public schooling, and private schooling. I'm pro-child. I've come to this conclusion through my own studies as I work toward my teaching certification in Language Arts, as well as my own experiences and those of people I know. Homeschooling isn't for everyone. But neither is public school. Most homeschoolers I know give their children a well-rounded education, in some cases exploring more topics than can ever be covered in public school. Some don't. Some public schools are AWESOME about looking out for the individual needs of the students. Some aren't.

The bottom line is that kids can get a fantastic education either at home or in formal schooling. What's important is the child. What does the child need? Where can the child thrive and learn best? What resources and support are available to the family? I don't see a problem with pulling a child out of school if she has severe social anxiety. Those anxieties CAN be overcome in a homeschooling environment, sometimes more easily than in a public school one. Sometimes it doesn't work. But if homeschooling doesn't work out, the child can always go back to public school, just as a student who's struggling in public school can always make the switch to homeschooling. It's not a "vs." thing. There's no fight to the finish. The ONLY important thing is the child. Making sure that child gets a good education in the safest environment possible.

Thanks for writing the post I was going to write so that all I have to do is say that I agree 100%

From someone that has done both with my children homeschool and public school I agree. I think parental involvement plays a big role in it either way. What works best for one child might not work for another child we are all different

Acceptance to me means: "You're Jewish and I'm fine with that, now tell me about your religion so I can understand it better." Not, "I accept you are Jewish and I want to be like you. Where do I sign up?"

I have homeschooled my 3 kids for the past 6 years. My oldest went to public school until 6th grade and my youngest until 3rd grade. The choice to pull them out was the best decision I ever made. This topic brings out different opinions from different people. I don't think it is fair to just assume that kids will not have healthy social skills just because they are homeschooled. I did not need my 1 year old to be around another 1 year old in order to teach him and to encourage him to walk. I did not need him to be around other children his age to teach him how to love, respect, cherish, believe in himself, go after his dreams, love God and so many other things. In fact, it was taking him away from that environment, that allowed me to do just that. I could care less is my child scores an 800 on some standardized testing, just to feel accomplished in this world. Loving others, respecting others and living life to the fullest is much more rewarding for a child. My son graduates next year and people are always commenting on what a beautiful person he is. I did that ... not a public school. God blessed me to be his mother and his teacher. And I did not need a college education to doh either. So if homeschooling is something to consider, I welcome it always. I think it depends on what each parent feels their child needs. It should always be the parents choice.

I was home schooled until high school, then private boarding school until I went overseas. I skipped grades and had a 4.0 all through college.

My children are in public schools. I am less than enthusiastic about their education, particularly my 1st grader. She is extremely bright and advanced, yet her teacher is trying to force her into the slow, plodding, dreary work being done in the classroom, day after day. After repeated conferences with her teacher to try to figure out how to keep from destroying my daughter's enthusiasm and fascination with learning, I have given up on this teacher and am proceeding with a separate educational plan outside of school. Like I actually have time for this with two jobs, two other children, a spouse, and 6 days per week workout schedule!! And yet, how can I not do as much as I can to keep her interested in learning? She was doing 2nd grade work before she even started 1st grade, and we are now on to her multiplication tables and fractions. The same thing happened to my son, but I wasn't wise enough or prepared enough to deal with it, so he dropped out of school from boredom in 9th grade. He is now going back to college to be an architect, thankfully.

Also, I don't think that most public high schools do a damn thing to help kid's social skills. They certainly teach a lot about bullying, cliches, gangs, alcohol/drugs, snobbishness, and peer pressure. If I had another doable option, my teenage daughter would not be in one. This experience is not making her a better person. I'm sure there are good schools out there, just not zoned for my area.

Beyond my personal experience-it's up to each family to decide what is best for their children.

Doesn't hurt but there's only so much time and room in a classroom and I should think the religions prevalent in our society would be the ones that should take pride of place in the educational process.
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That's pretty much how North Korea educates their children - they only learn about their own culture, and to heck with the rest of the world. And we all know how well North Korea has accepted and gets along with the rest of the Western world.
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I guess you are not a history teacher. That is how they've done it in this country for most of its history, and in every other European country. American exceptionalism has been the rule for over 200 years. And if you think that the British, say, were any different, you should read Rudyard Kipling. I personally think it is a far better idea to understand your own culture before you try to understand someone elses. In fact, I will say you have to understand your own before you can understand another.

As a certified, licensed school teacher, I am always concerned when parents pull their children out of regular school and say they will be "homeschooling" their child from that point forward. I will share my reasons below:

1. Qualifications/educational level of parents - Can a parent reach and teach their child the important things that child needs to know? Do they know what "developmentally appropriate" is for their child's age? Are the parents knowledgeable enough about the curriculum to present it in ways the child understands?

2. Is the curriculum relevant? Is the child learning what should be learned, versus what the parents want that child to learn? (some HS programs offer "revisionist" history, where important truths are conveniently left out - eg, slavery, holocaust, etc) There are certain skill sets/requirements all children MUST know in order to be well rounded adults. Slanted or inaccurate information can negatively affect a child's future.

3. Is the parent willing to sit by their child, invest the time, and hold their children accountable for their school work? Many parents nowadays have to work, and trusting their young child to stay home and do their school work all on line is a recipe for disaster. My daughter's friend is now being homeschooled (due to bullying) and guess what? This girl only gets 5 hours of weekly school work, which is less than one full day's worth of schooling. In a WEEK.

4. Schools provide the opportunity for children to learn HOW to get along with others, even if the children are being bullied. Instead of retreating into a "safe" world, it is better to learn how to handle the bullying and work on developing self esteem. Running away from it doesn't build self confidence, it only pushes the real issues aside.

I hope this provides you with some real information to make a very educated choice. I'm not anti-HS, I am against homeschool programs that end up causing more harm than good. Make sure your child is being monitored on a regular, weekly basis, by qualified school teachers, and is learning STATE curriculum standards. If those criteria are met, then a HS program should be okay overall.

First of all, let me say that I absolutely agree that not everyone is cut out for homeschooling. It does take a lot of time and dedication. The bottom line is the parents need to be involved in their child's education, whether it be public, private, or home school. As a side note, here is a VERY short list of famous homeschoolers who thrived and were/are very successful adults: Louis Armstrong, George Washington, George Patton, Jennifer Love Hewitt, Ray Kroc, Clara Barton, The Wright Brothers, Thomas Jefferson, Susan B. Anthony, and Beatrix Potter. The list could go on and on.

1. I have a friend who was homeschooled by his mother, who only had a high school diploma. He graduated at 15 and started college. He is very successful today. It is not all about the parents, though. The parents job is to teach the child to have a love for learning, so that they will explore and learn on their own. One can present material, but one cannot force someone to learn. There are innumerable resources for home schoolers. I home school my two children and I would not even begin to pretend I can teach chemistry. Therefore, we joined a co-op, where all the high school classes are taught by parents who have a college degree and know and are able to teach the material. We also use standardized testing every year to make sure we are on track. I also find it curious that if one must be "certified," then why do most public school systems allow people who have very little college hours, and may not even be majoring in education, subsitute teach?

2. I have never heard of anyone (I have been home schooling for 6 years) purposefully leaving out important historical events in teaching their child. Frankly, that is just absurd.

3. It absolutely does take an investment of time and holding the children responsible for their work .... which is why we joined a co-op. We go once a week for history, reading/writing, and science, from 9 to 3. The children then have homework to do the rest of the week in these subjects that is due the next Monday. We do the other subjects at home. Also, just as a side note about your friend's daughter. I don't know how old she is, but younger grades can absolutely cover an entire week's worth of schooling in very little time. The fact is one can just cover more material in a shorter amount of time when it is one-on-one. In public school, there is a lot of time spent getting the whole class lined up to go to the bathroom, recess, or lunch. There is time spent waiting for Johnny to find his work in his folder so that everyone is on the same page. There is time spent dealing with behavior problems. Consequently, just because a student may be at school for 8 hours does not mean they are receiving 8 hours of instruction. In fact, when you take the time from all those factors, it is nowhere near 8 hours.

4. I completely disagree that homeschoolers are sheltered from the "real world." The opposite is true. The whole "socialization" argument is just ridiculous. Let me temper this by saying I have known of some kids that were homeschooled that are socially awkward, but, guess what? I've known public schoolers that are socially awkward, too! When will a child EVER be in a situation again where they will be with 20-30 people exactly their age. My children spend time during the week with children much younger than themselves, with children their age, and with adults of all ages. The socialization argument cannot hold water. Period.

I am not anti-public school, but I am against making judgements on something one hasn't experienced himself and making unfounded assumptions. This would be a good time to mention that my children attended public school for the first five years. My children had some good experiences in public school and some bad ones, but we, personally, are MUCH better off homeschooling now.

there is no right or wrong answer, it is what is best for the child

From the point of view of a "certified, licensed school teacher," homeschooling can be suspicious. I have seen it done terribly - to the point where DHS gets involved - and I have seen it done perfectly.

It shouldn't really seem suspicious. In the state of Florida, if I am not mistaken, if you are a home schooler you are *required* to show some form of progress to show that your child isn't falling behind.

Many States are this way, if I am not mistaken.

Some states do. But here in Connecticut, the state statutes merely say that children are expected to be educated in various academic subjects, including Connecticut history. The responsibility, according to state law, falls on the parents to see this is accomplished. Even filing a notice of intent to home-school with the public schools is suggested, not mandated by the state education department, but that is not law. So home schoolers can fly solo if they like. This may make some people nervous, but what I saw firsthand through the various home-school groups we joined was a lot of diverse styles of conscientious home-schooling. And most things came out in the wash, as the old expression goes.

Same in Jersey.

Sure, there are some bad apples....like in all things.....but with good parenting....like in all things.... It works very well.

That's what I'm talking about. When a program is following standards, is staying in contact with educators, and conscientious parents who are willing to work with their kids, then I'm all for it. Just like lumping all home schools into a category, I refuse to allow anyone to lump education that takes place in a classroom into the same category of ineffectiveness. I gave very legitimate and good reasons when I responded, and I am not going to apologize for my opinion. To be labeled as "spewing educational mumbo jumbo clap trap" is downright rude.

Not asking you to apologize for your opinion. Just stating that in several states it is required for that homeschooler to show progression. I am with you for the not lumping into categories because it can be offensive to many people. That is all.

And if I want to home school my kids, what's it to you what they learn??

This problem with this line of thinking is that then the movie Idiocracy is no longer just a movie... it turns into real life.. YIKES! :noway:

I disagree. The last thing I want my kids to have is a typical education. They didn't have one and now they are reaching for the stars. I am delighted with how far off the grid we were. My kids are probably 5 years above their same age peers. And believe me, they are not geniuses.

I'll take this one:

There is an analogy in there that says: "If a person focuses solely on one specific idealogy to the exclusion of everything else, then that is indoctrination, not education." If a person only teaches Christianity (or Judaism or Buddhism or Communism, etc) to the exclusion of all other religions, then that is indoctrination, not education. It sets the person who is being taught up to learn that "all else does not matter, because this is all you need to know". It fascinates me how people can claim to be Christian, yet not be willing to accept others' points of view. Technically, that's in direct opposition to Christ's teachings about loving others as He has loved you.

You make some valid points. Catholic Christianity, however, does not deny that those who do not share our “creed” can have valid insights. In fact, Catholicism claims that our faith (by “faith” I mean the framework or context for understanding reality and our place in it that is made up of the specific truth-claims we make) perfects/completes and harmonizes the truths that people can discover through the God-given faculty of reason. Consequently, we are open to truth wherever it may be found. These truths that others may see more clearly than we do may enable us to better understand our own faith. That does not mean, however, that we cannot be sure of our beliefs or that we can never take a stand on anything. Although I believe, for instance, that Jesus is the Son of God and Savior of the world, those who do not share these beliefs may have deep and meaningful insights into, let’s say, the natural laws by which this world operates (“science”) or insights into how to have interior peace even when devastating things happen to us (far eastern philosophies/religions). I would also not take these facts to mean that a parent has to teach his/her children about every religion or philosophical system in order to avoid an unhealthy “indoctrination.” Most children (and adults, for that matter) are not sufficiently developed in their intellectual abilities to adequately evaluate belief-systems. In these cases, learning the belief-system that is cherished by those who raise them is an important step to becoming a thoughtful and respectful human being. If you don’t first understand your own thinking or world-view it will be very difficult to adequately evaluate or dialog with others. Additionally, I don’t think a parent or a pastor has to teach other religions to their children/congregations. It is certainly justifiable for a parent to want to instill in his/her children the teachings of their belief-system (“indoctrination”). It is possible to do this in such a way, I think, that they become respectful human persons who do not immediately assume everyone else is wrong about everything since they don’t profess the same creed.