Building Muscle vs. Losing Weight
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I've just come to the conclusion that the entire argument of whether your are 'building muscle or just losing fat' is just really irrelevant to 99% of the people who ask about it. What do most people really want to know when they ask this question? I believe that most people's question can be translated to:
Can I become more toned by heavy lifting as I lose body fat?
Yes, you can.
Can you get stronger by heavy lifting on a calorie deficit?
Yes, you can.
Will heavy lifting help preserve my muscle on a calorie deficit?
Yes, it will.
Can heavy lifting be a good alternative to cardio while losing weight?
Yes, it can be.
I would assume that covers most of the people who ask the question about gaining muscle on a deficit.
Ha! Pretty much. :-) My arms looked freaking AMAZING when I got pregnant with my daughter. Like approaching Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 level of awesome. I'd like that level of definition back, along with no muffin top. ;-)0 -
Your LBM and Body fat don't have separate metabolic rates, your entire body has one metabolic rate. You can't pick and choose what tissue gets supported by the calories you eat, and which tissues don't. Not to mention, body fat is a major endocrine organ, and has a lot more responsibilities for human survival than muscle does, which makes body fat a higher priority when it comes to a calorie deficit. Your body will not build muscle in a calorie deficit at the expense of burning more fat tissue, that goes completely against the evolution of human biology.Awesome. It's just something that I keep seeing repeated on here. Again and again and again. :-P
I haven't figured out how to reset my macros, but I do tend to be consistently over in my protein... especially on weight training days.
Alas, there really is a lot of crap in the forums from people who don't really know what they are talking about.
You can and will build muscle while in deficit. Even better, the more muscle you build, the higher you metabolism will be, because lean muscle burns more calories than fat.
Just stick with the program. Log you calories. Stay just under the limit every day. Exercise. You WILL lose weight.
Really? Would you care to explain how the human body can magically grow NEW tissue while you aren't eating enough to sustain the current amount of tissue you have? Do you also believe that if you are holding 10 blocks in your hand, you can build a tower 12 blocks high without going and picking up 2 more blocks from somewhere? How exactly do you think the human body can magically create new tissue out of thin air? Just think about it logically for a few minutes...
Who said it's magically out of thin air? The key is "which tissue are you sustaining, fat or muscle?
This was already discussed in a previous forum. But I'll give you a recap. Take me for example when i started MFP, 50% bodyfat, 210 pounds LBM... Lets say I eat to support 40% body fat. Which for example lets just say 4,000 calories. What happens when i eat 3,000 calories and lift intensely? Yet my LBM has a metabolic rate lets say of 2,000... Where does the extra 1000 calories go?
Which is why we strength train when our goal is to lose bodyfat...to tell our bodies hormonally not to save that major organ, and instead save muscle.
Thanks again Tiger.0 -
Do you also believe that if you are holding 10 blocks in your hand, you can build a tower 12 blocks high without going and picking up 2 more blocks from somewhere?
^ Sticky please.0 -
Ok, I didn't have time to follow all the reading so it may have already been said, but don't worry about the scale. Get you a good seamstress tape or one of the self retracting ones, and worry more about how you measure out and how you fit into your clothes. If you lift you will tone out (I believe I read that each pound of muscle added burns another 50 cal, but who really cares) and just let the mirror be your judge. I actually kept my weight steady while lifting super heavy (for me anyway) eating high calories, and doing virtually no cardio. If you want to tone it up good, do both the weights and some cardio. One comment for ya though, you may consider the fact that you are overtraining. Working out is one of those times where more is not always the best way to go. Find a good balance.0
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Your LBM and Body fat don't have separate metabolic rates, your entire body has one metabolic rate. You can't pick and choose what tissue gets supported by the calories you eat, and which tissues don't. Not to mention, body fat is a major endocrine organ, and has a lot more responsibilities for human survival than muscle does, which makes body fat a higher priority when it comes to a calorie deficit. Your body will not build muscle in a calorie deficit at the expense of burning more fat tissue, that goes completely against the evolution of human biology.Awesome. It's just something that I keep seeing repeated on here. Again and again and again. :-P
I haven't figured out how to reset my macros, but I do tend to be consistently over in my protein... especially on weight training days.
Alas, there really is a lot of crap in the forums from people who don't really know what they are talking about.
You can and will build muscle while in deficit. Even better, the more muscle you build, the higher you metabolism will be, because lean muscle burns more calories than fat.
Just stick with the program. Log you calories. Stay just under the limit every day. Exercise. You WILL lose weight.
Really? Would you care to explain how the human body can magically grow NEW tissue while you aren't eating enough to sustain the current amount of tissue you have? Do you also believe that if you are holding 10 blocks in your hand, you can build a tower 12 blocks high without going and picking up 2 more blocks from somewhere? How exactly do you think the human body can magically create new tissue out of thin air? Just think about it logically for a few minutes...
Who said it's magically out of thin air? The key is "which tissue are you sustaining, fat or muscle?
This was already discussed in a previous forum. But I'll give you a recap. Take me for example when i started MFP, 50% bodyfat, 210 pounds LBM... Lets say I eat to support 40% body fat. Which for example lets just say 4,000 calories. What happens when i eat 3,000 calories and lift intensely? Yet my LBM has a metabolic rate lets say of 2,000... Where does the extra 1000 calories go?
I don't care about what any study/book/theory says. I care about evidence and results. Your "BODY" has a metabolic rate, which is dependent on the other factors mentioned.
Answer this question... Someone losing 50lbs of fat... one did it from pure cardio, another pure resistance training, would their body look the same? If not, what is the difference.
PS... my 7lbs weight gain with a decreased body fat... must be a fluke i guess.
Easy: they will look different because one will lose lean mass and the other will maintain. Maybe put on 1-2 lb of lean mass do to noob gains, and even then not everyone will be genetically predisposed to get a whole pound out of newb gains in a calorie deficit.
And nobody here is saying you can't put on muscle, just that you need to gain weight to do it appreciably. So yeah, your 7 lb gain would allow prob half of that to be muscle, maybe more if you have newb gains. If you were in a calorie deficit, though, you would not be gaining because you are definitionally not supplying your body with enough calories to maintain your current weight, let alone gain weight.0 -
Your LBM and Body fat don't have separate metabolic rates, your entire body has one metabolic rate. You can't pick and choose what tissue gets supported by the calories you eat, and which tissues don't. Not to mention, body fat is a major endocrine organ, and has a lot more responsibilities for human survival than muscle does, which makes body fat a higher priority when it comes to a calorie deficit. Your body will not build muscle in a calorie deficit at the expense of burning more fat tissue, that goes completely against the evolution of human biology.Awesome. It's just something that I keep seeing repeated on here. Again and again and again. :-P
I haven't figured out how to reset my macros, but I do tend to be consistently over in my protein... especially on weight training days.
Alas, there really is a lot of crap in the forums from people who don't really know what they are talking about.
You can and will build muscle while in deficit. Even better, the more muscle you build, the higher you metabolism will be, because lean muscle burns more calories than fat.
Just stick with the program. Log you calories. Stay just under the limit every day. Exercise. You WILL lose weight.
Really? Would you care to explain how the human body can magically grow NEW tissue while you aren't eating enough to sustain the current amount of tissue you have? Do you also believe that if you are holding 10 blocks in your hand, you can build a tower 12 blocks high without going and picking up 2 more blocks from somewhere? How exactly do you think the human body can magically create new tissue out of thin air? Just think about it logically for a few minutes...
Who said it's magically out of thin air? The key is "which tissue are you sustaining, fat or muscle?
This was already discussed in a previous forum. But I'll give you a recap. Take me for example when i started MFP, 50% bodyfat, 210 pounds LBM... Lets say I eat to support 40% body fat. Which for example lets just say 4,000 calories. What happens when i eat 3,000 calories and lift intensely? Yet my LBM has a metabolic rate lets say of 2,000... Where does the extra 1000 calories go?
I don't care about what any study/book/theory says. I care about evidence and results. Your "BODY" has a metabolic rate, which is dependent on the other factors mentioned.
Answer this question... Someone losing 50lbs of fat... one did it from pure cardio, another pure resistance training, would their body look the same? If not, what is the difference.
PS... my 7lbs weight gain with a decreased body fat... must be a fluke i guess.
Easy: they will look different because one will lose lean mass and the other will maintain. Maybe put on 1-2 lb of lean mass do to noob gains, and even then not everyone will be genetically predisposed to get a whole pound out of newb gains in a calorie deficit.
And nobody here is saying you can't put on muscle, just that you need to gain weight to do it appreciably. So yeah, your 7 lb gain would allow prob half of that to be muscle, maybe more if you have newb gains. If you were in a calorie deficit, though, you would not be gaining because you are definitionally not supplying your body with enough calories to maintain your current weight, let alone gain weight.
He's saying he gained that weight on a calorie deficit.
I know better than to argue with him (we have history, this isn't our first discussion)...not because he's right or wrong (in this case I feel he's wrong, other than the obvious newbie gains we've all mentioned), but because it'll devolve into 72 pages of crap with no clear points made, lots of misunderstood arguments on either side, and the rest of the MFP membership shaking their heads while clicking on another thread.0 -
I hate when people say they gained weight in a calorie deficit... they aren't doing it right then.
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I'd say pick what works the best for you but as for me, I'm losing weight first and then toning up/building muscle. I figure that's quite an easy approach
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Try a LeanGains recomp diet, if you are willing to do IF and be OCD about your macros
What is IF?0 -
Try a LeanGains recomp diet, if you are willing to do IF and be OCD about your macros
What is IF?
Intermittent Fasting0 -
Try a LeanGains recomp diet, if you are willing to do IF and be OCD about your macros
What is IF?
Intermittent Fasting
I've never heard of this. Can someone please explain?0 -
Try a LeanGains recomp diet, if you are willing to do IF and be OCD about your macros
What is IF?
Intermittent Fasting
I've never heard of this. Can someone please explain?
You can go to www.leangains.com0 -
Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.
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You obviously haven't read all the posts about it on MFP.0 -
Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.
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You obviously haven't read all the posts about it on MFP.
And thankfully, the myth that you can is very slowly being put in its grave where it belongs.0 -
Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.
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You obviously haven't read all the posts about it on MFP.
And thankfully, the myth that you can is very slowly being put in its grave where it belongs.
But how can we completely discount those that say they have built muscle on a deficit - are they lieing or just sadly mistaken every single time?0 -
Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.
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You obviously haven't read all the posts about it on MFP.
And thankfully, the myth that you can is very slowly being put in its grave where it belongs.
But how can we completely discount those that say they have built muscle on a deficit - are they lieing or just sadly mistaken every single time?
The unbiased truth? They are often mistaken. If you read these threads (and there's usually 1-2 a day) that are invariably posted by women...they almost always say "I've been working out lifting weights for TWO WHOLE WEEKS!!...and I've gained TONS OF MUSCLE in my legs!!" When questioned about their routine, they're lifting 10lb dumbbells in some kind of effort at a split routine (not really conducive to beginner success, even if they were doing it correctly), or worse...machines chosen at random from the gym floor. They tell us they're religiously eating on a deficit (who knows how they calculated that deficit, of if they even truly are hitting it as they say), and that their protein is spot on (again...the single solitary prevalent commonality I've seen in diaries on these forums is that 90% of women don't get enough protein). So...with even just these few variables (there's more...but posting from my phone is a pain), and that crappy routine...do you truly beleive they're gaining muscle?
The answer is no, and it's emphatically no when you look at the fact that here is substantial scientific proof out there that when all the variables ARE controlled (actual deficit, proper protein intake, excellent program), it's physiologically impossible.0 -
Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.
[/url]
You obviously haven't read all the posts about it on MFP.
And thankfully, the myth that you can is very slowly being put in its grave where it belongs.
But how can we completely discount those that say they have built muscle on a deficit - are they lieing or just sadly mistaken every single time?
Don't worry, i'll show them :-)
Who, those that sadly think they have built muscle?0 -
Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.
[/url]
You obviously haven't read all the posts about it on MFP.
And thankfully, the myth that you can is very slowly being put in its grave where it belongs.
But how can we completely discount those that say they have built muscle on a deficit - are they lieing or just sadly mistaken every single time?
Don't worry, i'll show them :-)
Dude, even if you do manage to gain any real muscle on a deficit, all you're going to prove is that a VERY DEDICATED MAN (read: testosterone) who is CAREFULLY CONTROLLING THE VARIABLES and MAXIMIZING THEM IN HIS FAVOR....MIGHT put on a few lbs more than expected, since he was pretty overweight when he started.
Your example, if it does in fact fly in the face of what we've been saying, has not a single thing in common with any of the posts these women are making, and in fact...is just going to hurt their overall efforts in the long run. If you were a 29yr old, borderline obese and/or highly overweight woman doing this, it might hold some validity.0 -
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Female. Eating at a deficit. Lifting heavy. NOT gaining muscle.0 -
I was speaking to a PT who said that she has trained a number of women, and has seen some of them really bulk up in their thighs, particularly those 5ft 4in and under.0
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I gained lean muscle as a newbie while losing 83 lbs. But I had newbie gains, was over weight, tried to only lose 1 lb. per week, 2 at the most and consumed over 1 gram of protein for every lb. of bodyweight each and every day.0
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That's more or less true, but don't worry about it. It's mostly an issue for intermediate and advanced lifters who have hit a point where gains are tougher to come by. The body needs a caloric excess to build muscle, and a caloric deficit to lose weight (fat or muscle). So you can see why those two processes are at odds with each other.
But beginners or relative beginners can see gains in both at the same time. You can get stronger, much stronger, while still losing bodyfat %. Give it all you've got at the gym and give it all you've got in the kitchen, and you'll be reaching your goals sooner than you think.
David's right. All I can add is Think about your goals. Do you want to bulk up? Look better? Be healthier? Be able to do more? Many weightlifters--especially males--concentrate on increasing muscle size without building stamina and flexibility. If your goal is to be able to walk longer, run longer and get your luggage across the airport terminal you may want a different program than the guy who wants the broadest shoulders and largest chest and arms.0 -
I do the same lifting program as pro body builders at my gym but I also do Insanity to be functional, because I want to be able to do more than be good at tanning and posing in the mirror.That's more or less true, but don't worry about it. It's mostly an issue for intermediate and advanced lifters who have hit a point where gains are tougher to come by. The body needs a caloric excess to build muscle, and a caloric deficit to lose weight (fat or muscle). So you can see why those two processes are at odds with each other.
But beginners or relative beginners can see gains in both at the same time. You can get stronger, much stronger, while still losing bodyfat %. Give it all you've got at the gym and give it all you've got in the kitchen, and you'll be reaching your goals sooner than you think.
David's right. All I can add is Think about your goals. Do you want to bulk up? Look better? Be healthier? Be able to do more? Many weightlifters--especially males--concentrate on increasing muscle size without building stamina and flexibility. If your goal is to be able to walk longer, run longer and get your luggage across the airport terminal you may want a different program than the guy who wants the broadest shoulders and largest chest and arms.0 -
I also had the same problem until one of friends, tought me a simple trick!
After my strength exercises I always have a small banana or apple after my whey protein. It tricks your body to absorb banana as a carb and use protein to build muscles! The body needs both in the same time to build muscles. At first I was afraid maybe using carb exactly after my exercise would make me to gain more weight but after 2 weeks now I started to build muscles and also lose 3.8 lb. hope it would be useful for you too!0 -
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That's untrue... Just eat at a small deficit with plenty of protein. I put on muscle while losing weight.0
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That's untrue... Just eat at a small deficit with plenty of protein. I put on muscle while losing weight.
How do you know?0 -
I love these threads.... when all the special little snowflakes come out.... so certain that they defy the laws of nature, yet never can substantiate their claims with actual scientifically proven tests (ie. body scan, etc).
Those of you that aren't obese, and are building muscle on a deficit. What is your body using to build that muscle with? You're already in a deficit, causing the weight loss, but somehow, magically, are building muscle without a substantial energy source. Not to mention these ladies lack the testosterone levels that are needed for faster muscle gains.
I think bodybuilders the world over should copy your magical routines, because you're gaining muscle on a faster pace than they can. /end sarcasm0 -
Very nicely saidThat's more or less true, but don't worry about it. It's mostly an issue for intermediate and advanced lifters who have hit a point where gains are tougher to come by. The body needs a caloric excess to build muscle, and a caloric deficit to lose weight (fat or muscle). So you can see why those two processes are at odds with each other.
But beginners or relative beginners can see gains in both at the same time. You can get stronger, much stronger, while still losing bodyfat %. Give it all you've got at the gym and give it all you've got in the kitchen, and you'll be reaching your goals sooner than you think.
The most important thing is to stay motivated. Too often people learn about something or hear someone say something that they let get them down and then they use that as an excuse to not keep pushing forward. Don't let that happen to you. Lift+Portion Control=Results0
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