Building Muscle vs. Losing Weight

That's untrue... Just eat at a small deficit with plenty of protein. I put on muscle while losing weight.

How do you know?

I cant speak for her, But I put on over an inch on my arms, chest, traps and calves even though my waist went from a size 46 to a size 32.

That's untrue... Just eat at a small deficit with plenty of protein. I put on muscle while losing weight.

How do you know?

I cant speak for her, But I put on over an inch on my arms, chest, traps and calves even though my waist went from a size 46 to a size 32.

A couple of things to note here:

1) you are a guy - she is not
2) you mentioned before - you had newbie gains
3) more strength training = more water in muscle = greater measurements

That's untrue... Just eat at a small deficit with plenty of protein. I put on muscle while losing weight.

How do you know?

I cant speak for her, But I put on over an inch on my arms, chest, traps and calves even though my waist went from a size 46 to a size 32.

A couple of things to note here:

1) you are a guy - she is not
2) you mentioned before - you had newbie gains
3) more strength training = more water in muscle = greater measurements

1. Like I said I cant speak for her, only for myself.
2. yes I did have newbie gains which I stated that I did.
3. your right, strength training + more water in the muscle= greater measurements, but water levels in your body flucuate, my body measurements never did after the 4th or 5th month. Plus I lost 83 lbs of fat at the same time so my muscles retaining water would not be enough to cause to lose that many inches of fat plus gain inches as well.

That's untrue... Just eat at a small deficit with plenty of protein. I put on muscle while losing weight.

How do you know?

I cant speak for her, But I put on over an inch on my arms, chest, traps and calves even though my waist went from a size 46 to a size 32.

A couple of things to note here:

1) you are a guy - she is not
2) you mentioned before - you had newbie gains
3) more strength training = more water in muscle = greater measurements

1. Like I said I cant speak for her, only for myself.
2. yes I did have newbie gains which I stated that I did.
3. your right, strength training + more water in the muscle= greater measurements, but water levels in your body flucuate, my body measurements never did, after the 4th or 5th month. Plus I lost 83 lbs of fat at the same time so my muscles retaining water would not be enough to cause to lose that many inches of fat plus gain inches as well.

Improved neuromuscular response plus the above most certainly would. Particularly as a male.

I've gained a total of 1.5" in my right arm since my surgery in February. Are you going to tell me that's all new muscle...or any of it for that matter? How has it gained so much size, strength, and density...with no new muscle?

If I was 7 pounds overweight and my goal was to burn fat, build muscle, I would do this:

Eat QUALITY food at your maintenance/TDEE level and resistance/strength train.

You will recomp your body - fat to muscle. Body fat % decrease. You will be leaner, look leaner .. but you may WEIGH the same on the scale.

Bump to read later. Based on my personal experience I don't think I really gained any "new muscle" when I first began strength training; however, I could see more muscle definition because I was losing body fat. The muscle was there...I just couldn't see it before. Good luck to you on your journey.

I love these threads.... when all the special little snowflakes come out.... so certain that they defy the laws of nature, yet never can substantiate their claims with actual scientifically proven tests (ie. body scan, etc).

Those of you that aren't obese, and are building muscle on a deficit. What is your body using to build that muscle with? You're already in a deficit, causing the weight loss, but somehow, magically, are building muscle without a substantial energy source. Not to mention these ladies lack the testosterone levels that are needed for faster muscle gains.

I think bodybuilders the world over should copy your magical routines, because you're gaining muscle on a faster pace than they can. /end sarcasm

^^this

I had a DEXA scan the other day - am going to have one in a few months.

I am female (obviously I hope!), am eating at a deficit, have been back to strength training for a few months (no more newbie gains) and fully expect my muscle to have no more than remained the same but probably to have decreased when I have my next one.

I have been resistance training for a while, but nothing to serious. My estimated TDEE is 3,500 - 3,700 calories. I have been eating at 3,000 calories. As I said before, i gained about 7 pounds LBM, and 2lbs of fat, but my physique made a big change, I look like i lost 10-15lbs in a month.

My question to you would be the same as to the earlier post - how do you KNOW? The only way to really have an accurate deterimination is a DEXA scan. Other methods of calculating are inaccurate and to not differentiate between muscle and other 'stuff' included in the LBM calculation (which includes water). Also, other methods are very variable depending on the user (if caliper) and hydtration plus they only really look at subcutaneous fat and not visceral fat.

Dexa doesn't differentiate between LBM or bodyfat. Dexa also uses weight before the scan from my understanding, hydration or dehydration can throw the thing off as well, this is true for any method. To get a %, you need total mass. If total mass is involved, then it's not fully accurate.

DEXA does differentiate. It actually splits out fat mass, tissue mass, lean mass and mineral content mass (looking at my chart as I type). It actually gives grams of each so the %ages are just a product of math - not the mass of each element.

I just don't get why this has to be hill that people want to die on. The science says, with a few exceptions for the obese, newbies gains and atheletes reconditioning, you cannot gain muscle on a deficit. Chris has explained over and over why people see size gains. It's neuromuscular adaption of EXISTING muscle tissue. Yes you get bigger. Yes you get stronger, yes you look better. But you likely didn't grow new muscle cells unless you fit into one of the categories above. And newbie gains are minimal at best.

Why does this really matter to those who claim you did grow muscle tissue. Is it not enough to have a better developed muscle structure, less fat, more strength and look great?? Do you really need to believe that you've beaten the laws of biophysiology too?? Hey, you've accomplished a lot. You look and feel better and you are more healthy. Can't you just give it a rest??!!

Not sure who told you that you cannot build muscle while in a caloric def. That's not true. Eat lots of protein while loosing weight and building muscle to fuel your muscles. Youll be just fine.

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Finally and thank you... I ate at a really high deficit for over three years and kept protein high and I had no problem minting and building muscle and losing body fat.

Posts like this just make me want to smash my face into my desk repeatedly.

I just don't get why this has to be hill that people want to die on. The science says, with a few exceptions for the obese, newbies gains and atheletes reconditioning, you cannot gain muscle on a deficit. Chris has explained over and over why people see size gains. It's neuromuscular adaption of EXISTING muscle tissue. Yes you get bigger. Yes you get stronger, yes you look better. But you likely didn't grow new muscle cells unless you fit into one of the categories above. And newbie gains are minimal at best.

Why does this really matter to those who claim you did grow muscle tissue. Is it not enough to have a better developed muscle structure, less fat, more strength and look great?? Do you really need to believe that you've beaten the laws of biophysiology too?? Hey, you've accomplished a lot. You look and feel better and you are more healthy. Can't you just give it a rest??!!

Posts like these are why I don't...

Usually.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how I gained over 1.5" on my right arm...and am still gaining, in just a few short months, while all my other measurements are going down again (cutting bodyfat at this time).

okay that sounds cool. I just saw some guy get it down, saw that they weighed him before, looked like it was part of the calculation. How much does a dexa cost?

The actual machine should do the weighing. Mine was $69 - only took about 15 minutes start to finish. I actually found it a little depressing as my BF% was a lot higher than the online calculators and caliper method showed - mainly because of where I have most of my fat (comfirmed by the scan to be in my *kitten* - not surpising to me!) and probably also due to visceral fat. The nice additional bit of information that I got from it was that I have a super duper bone density.

I just don't get why this has to be hill that people want to die on. The science says, with a few exceptions for the obese, newbies gains and atheletes reconditioning, you cannot gain muscle on a deficit. Chris has explained over and over why people see size gains. It's neuromuscular adaption of EXISTING muscle tissue. Yes you get bigger. Yes you get stronger, yes you look better. But you likely didn't grow new muscle cells unless you fit into one of the categories above. And newbie gains are minimal at best.

Why does this really matter to those who claim you did grow muscle tissue. Is it not enough to have a better developed muscle structure, less fat, more strength and look great?? Do you really need to believe that you've beaten the laws of biophysiology too?? Hey, you've accomplished a lot. You look and feel better and you are more healthy. Can't you just give it a rest??!!

Nope, the reason I posted my results is because 90 + % of the people on MFP. are newbies to lifting and also over weight, ( the people who can gain muscle while on a deficit) And in my opinion weight training is the single most important thing I did to change my body ( to me weight training is like finding the fountain of youth!) and dont want anyone to be discouraged from implementing a weight training program of their own because they read these threads and might think its not worth the effort.

I kind of figured you had a helpful reason behind it...you're a good guy from all I've seen.

The problem is...your results (and I still doubt you've gained much, if any actual mass)...aren't typical (even for newbies...you've pushed HARD...like I did, and most just don't) for one, for two...they only really apply to men. Women in general...even the most naturally testosterone filled one you can pick out of a crowd...will not have the same results.

And here's the thing...seeing all of these posts about building muscle on a deficit...turns them AWAY from lifting. Most women don't want to build muscle...and that's good because they can't easily. But seeing a relatively well built guy saying over and over that they will (which again...the evidence says they won't)...is disheartening.

Do you get what I mean?

Also...I still want to know your opinion on why I'm working my way towards gaining 2" (over 1.5" now) on my right biceps. The answer applies directly to your specific circumstances.

I just don't get why this has to be hill that people want to die on. The science says, with a few exceptions for the obese, newbies gains and atheletes reconditioning, you cannot gain muscle on a deficit. Chris has explained over and over why people see size gains. It's neuromuscular adaption of EXISTING muscle tissue. Yes you get bigger. Yes you get stronger, yes you look better. But you likely didn't grow new muscle cells unless you fit into one of the categories above. And newbie gains are minimal at best.

Why does this really matter to those who claim you did grow muscle tissue. Is it not enough to have a better developed muscle structure, less fat, more strength and look great?? Do you really need to believe that you've beaten the laws of biophysiology too?? Hey, you've accomplished a lot. You look and feel better and you are more healthy. Can't you just give it a rest??!!

Nope, the reason I posted my results is because 90 + % of the people on MFP. are newbies to lifting and also over weight, ( the people who can gain muscle while on a deficit) And in my opinion weight training is the single most important thing I did to change my body ( to me weight training is like finding the fountain of youth!) and dont want anyone to be discouraged from implementing a weight training program of their own because they read these threads and might think its not worth the effort.

I kind of figured you had a helpful reason behind it...you're a good guy from all I've seen.

The problem is...your results (and I still doubt you've gained much, if any actual mass)...aren't typical (even for newbies...you've pushed HARD...like I did, and most just don't) for one, for two...they only really apply to men. Women in general...even the most naturally testosterone filled one you can pick out of a crowd...will not have the same results.

And here's the thing...seeing all of these posts about building muscle on a deficit...turns them AWAY from lifting. Most women don't want to build muscle...and that's good because they can't easily. But seeing a relatively well built guy saying over and over that they will (which again...the evidence says they won't)...is disheartening.

Do you get what I mean?

Also...I still want to know your opinion on why I'm working my way towards gaining 2" (over 1.5" now) on my right biceps. The answer applies directly to your specific circumstances.

Chris your a good guy aswell and there is nothing wrong with us disagreeing.:drinker: I will be back later to answer your questions ( and like you always point out to women that they shouldn't expect to see the same gains as men but regardless its still very much worth their time to lift) But I have to leave for a wedding. But here is a pic of me at 25 year old right after started gaining my weight, I was 180 lbs back then and then my current pic at 213 lbs and a smaller waist. I didnt gain 33 + lbs of muscle between then and now just from being lazy, eating bad, drinking alot of beer and gaining 50 lbs of fat. ( if you are correct about me just losing fat and uncovering my existing muscle)
( not saying I didnt gain muscle from gaining fat) Be back later.

I just got into an arguement with someone today about this very thing. I have gained muscle and I have lost weight. Everybody is different. My legs are bigger. My arms and back are much more defined. My stomach is flattened out. My hips and stomach are smaller but my legs are bigger. My pants fit really badly right now. Too small in some places and too big in others. I like having muscletone so this really doesn't bother me. I just have to find pants that are cut differently. I still have about 5 more pounds to lose. I'm going to continue to eat at a deficit and alternate cardio one day with strength training the next until my weight is where I want it, then I will up my calories to maintain. I feel great.

Bigger legs can be from more water and glycogen storage. More definition means less fat, not necessarily muscle being built.
Seeing muscle fools a lot of people into thinking that they built it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Chris your a good guy aswell and there is nothing wrong with us disagreeing. I will be back later to answer your questions ( and like you always point out to women that they shouldn't expect to see the same gains as men but regardless its still very much worth their time to lift) But I have to leave for a wedding. But here is a pic of me at 25 year old right after started gaining my weight, I was 180 lbs back then and then my current pic at 213 lbs and a smaller waist. I didnt gain 33 + lbs of muscle between then and now just from being lazy, eating bad, drinking alot of beer and gaining 50 lbs of fat. ( if you are correct about me just losing fat and uncovering my existing muscle)
( not saying I didnt gain muscle from gaining fat) Be back later.

I think you would be amazed at how much muscle is built on a caloric surplus (particularly over time!) when you're carrying around a crapload of weight just moving your body around. Yes, this includes in your arms, shoulders, back, everywhere. My little brother is a perfect example. He went from overweight/obese, to this picture in his first year of strength training (I wish I had a before picture!).



Eating on a calorie deficit, being anal about his protein intake, and hard strength training did that. It was all existing mass, with the size stimulated by neuromuscular response, and glycogen storage. He gained over 3" on his arms alone.

All with existing muscle.

Oh, and for the record...this picture was after 6mos of bulking, and 3mos cutting, net weight gain was only 4lbs:



Not a lot of difference in size...is there.

You can and will build muscle while in deficit. Even better, the more muscle you build, the higher you metabolism will be, because lean muscle burns more calories than fat.

This statement is deceptive and frustrating to someone like me. This implies that any muscle growth = faster metabolism = fat flying off of you. It does not happen like that...

This is true because a pound of muscle burns from 6 - 35 calories per day, depending on who did the study, more than a pound of fat. It is a lot of work to add even one pound of muscle...I wouldn't rely on the fat burning capabilities of a little extra muscle.