Guys can never be right can they??

Ps. For the record, I'd walk through the streets naked screaming "EUREKA!" before I'd dare ask my man to pick up tampons for me!!! He'd do it, I'm sure...but I'd be embarrassed!

And, yes my man puts up with a lot...and he does a lot for me. And I love him mucho.

Chris,

I don't think you even understand where I am coming from. It really does make me sad. I feel more and more like I am not allowed to say what I think, or what my experiences are, because you have labelled me a troll and a man hater when I am neither. I say what I say because I genuinely believe them and feel them. I'm not trolling, but participating in the discussion. While I did not appreciate the comments made by Op generalizing men and women and relationships between the two, as it does not reflect my reality as a woman in a relationship with a man, and because those generalizations have hurt me when applied to me, I did appreciate the OPs post and said as much in the second half of my first post. You reporting me for that was what lured me onto the defensive.

My perpective on the roles men and women play in relationships belongs in this thread as much as yours.

Umeboshi- I feel that you are hurting your cause by continuing this debate. I'm 100% down with trannies and tranny rights and getting more awareness out there, but this forum isn't the place to go on like this. I would recommend in your first post saying what you gotta say and letting it be. I will try to take my own advice.

This is just lame. Chris, you could have just as easily said "epi, it might be different for some, but for me this post makes sense." you think I am a man hater, but your actions make you come off as a misogynist and a homophobe. I get that you called her MTF her "boyfriend" just to piss her off, but saying things like that will hurt other people as well.

I dont think she should go to a thread praising men in a heterosexual relationship if she indeed is NOT in a heterosexual relationship with a man.

I would agree with you here (and I do agree with the rest of what you said), but we'd lose.

She IS in a hetero relationship. I don't care if he calls himself Suzie and dresses like her grandmother (it's well within his rights, and more power to him if it makes him happy)...guy parts, make a guy. She felt the need to point that out, she can deal with the consequences.

Chris,

I don't think you even understand where I am coming from. It really does make me sad. I feel more and more like I am not allowed to say what I think, or what my experiences are, because you have labelled me a troll and a man hater when I am neither. I say what I say because I genuinely believe them and feel them. I'm not trolling, but participating in the discussion. While I did not appreciate the comments made by Op generalizing men and women and relationships between the two, as it does not reflect my reality as a woman in a relationship with a man, and because those generalizations have hurt me when applied to me, I did appreciate the OPs post and said as much in the second half of my first post. You reporting me for that was what lured me onto the defensive.

My perpective on the roles men and women play in relationships belongs in this thread as much as yours.

Umeboshi- I feel that you are hurting your cause by continuing this debate. I'm 100% down with trannies and tranny rights and getting more awareness out there, but this forum isn't the place to go on like this. I would recommend in your first post saying what you gotta say and letting it be. I will try to take my own advice.

This is just lame. Chris, you could have just as easily said "epi, it might be different for some, but for me this post makes sense." you think I am a man hater, but your actions make you come off as a misogynist and a homophobe. I get that you called her MTF her "boyfriend" just to piss her off, but saying things like that will hurt other people as well.

I completely, and totally respect what you just said. I just feel that it's unfortunate, due to the first line of your initial post...that you even needed to explain. I'm all about people being different, and having different opinions...but your first post struck me...and many others...as completely disrespectful. I know this isn't your normal behavior (unlike Umeboshi), and I should have taken that into consideration (meaning that you may have meant something other than what I thought)...but it hit a nerve. The second part of your post...alone...would have been a completely fair addition, and definitely wouldn't have sparked the response the rest did.

Here's the thing...there's nothing wrong with being homosexual. There's nothing wrong with being heterosexual. I would never, in a million years...go into a homosexual thread, or join a homosexual group...just to put down (and that is exactly what calling something 'painfully _____' is, belittling it) their beliefs. The feminist threads...it's USUALLY me teasing...with honest humor...because at heart...I AGREE with what true feminism is. It's the activists I can't stand. Once they make it a fight, it's another issue though. If you've noticed...Nataliaho is an adamant feminist, and we've never once, ever...shared anything less than kind, respectful interactions.

I do apologize for labling you a troll. Your appearance with Umeboshi (who absolutely is) is partly to blame for that...and I'm very sorry.

i guess i should have said people can never be right if a woman is around.... but I when i wrote this i was thinking about my husband and how i jump in all the time when i think im right and how sweet he is to help me clean the egg off my face when i am wrong without uttering i told you so...

Biologically means she would have female chromosomes and/or reproductive organs. Since you said she is transgendered and not a hermaphrodite then i doubt, biologically shes a women. and yeah, im a bout 99.9999% sure if i didn't put that in there i'd been called a homophobe or some BS that ya'll like to throw my way

There is no such thing as "biologically male" or "biologically female". Biology is not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be. Any biologist will agree. Having a penis does not make a person a man.
Biological sex is a combination of genotype and phenotype.
Phenotype is way more important in social interactions than genotype. Most people never find out what their genotype is.
With today's technology, phenotype can be changed.
Primary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Secondary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Endocrine levels? Can be changed.

Also, true hermaphrodites do not exist. I believe the word you're looking for is intersex.

Biologically means she would have female chromosomes and/or reproductive organs. Since you said she is transgendered and not a hermaphrodite then i doubt, biologically shes a women. and yeah, im a bout 99.9999% sure if i didn't put that in there i'd been called a homophobe or some BS that ya'll like to throw my way

There is no such thing as "biologically male" or "biologically female". Biology is not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be. Any biologist will agree. Having a penis does not make a person a man.
Biological sex is a combination of genotype and phenotype.
Phenotype is way more important in social interactions than genotype. Most people never find out what their genotype is.
With today's technology, phenotype can be changed.
Primary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Secondary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Endocrine levels? Can be changed.

Also, true hermaphrodites do not exist. I believe the word you're looking for is intersex.

Chris,

I don't think you even understand where I am coming from. It really does make me sad. I feel more and more like I am not allowed to say what I think, or what my experiences are, because you have labelled me a troll and a man hater when I am neither. I say what I say because I genuinely believe them and feel them. I'm not trolling, but participating in the discussion. While I did not appreciate the comments made by Op generalizing men and women and relationships between the two, as it does not reflect my reality as a woman in a relationship with a man, and because those generalizations have hurt me when applied to me, I did appreciate the OPs post and said as much in the second half of my first post. You reporting me for that was what lured me onto the defensive.

My perpective on the roles men and women play in relationships belongs in this thread as much as yours.

Umeboshi- I feel that you are hurting your cause by continuing this debate. I'm 100% down with trannies and tranny rights and getting more awareness out there, but this forum isn't the place to go on like this. I would recommend in your first post saying what you gotta say and letting it be. I will try to take my own advice.

This is just lame. Chris, you could have just as easily said "epi, it might be different for some, but for me this post makes sense." you think I am a man hater, but your actions make you come off as a misogynist and a homophobe. I get that you called her MTF her "boyfriend" just to piss her off, but saying things like that will hurt other people as well.

I completely, and totally respect what you just said. I just feel that it's unfortunate, due to the first line of your initial post...that you even needed to explain. I'm all about people being different, and having different opinions...but your first post struck me...and many others...as completely disrespectful. I know this isn't your normal behavior (unlike Umeboshi), and I should have taken that into consideration (meaning that you may have meant something other than what I thought)...but it hit a nerve. The second part of your post...alone...would have been a completely fair addition, and definitely wouldn't have sparked the response the rest did.

Here's the thing...there's nothing wrong with being homosexual. There's nothing wrong with being heterosexual. I would never, in a million years...go into a homosexual thread, or join a homosexual group...just to put down (and that is exactly what calling something 'painfully _____' is, belittling it) their beliefs. The feminist threads...it's USUALLY me teasing...with honest humor...because at heart...I AGREE with what true feminism is. It's the activists I can't stand. Once they make it a fight, it's another issue though. If you've noticed...Nataliaho is an adamant feminist, and we've never once, ever...shared anything less than kind, respectful interactions.

I do apologize for labling you a troll. Your appearance with Umeboshi (who absolutely is) is partly to blame for that...and I'm very sorry.

I think that maybe you don't know what I mean by "heteronormative." it's just a fancy way of saying "prescribing sexist stereotypes to everyone..." it does also include assuming everyone is hetero, but I certainly didn't think OP was implying that Gay people don't exist. And yes, I see how using the word "painfully" made it seem as it was intended to belittle her. OP, I apologize. I didn't mean to disrespect you as much as I meant to let it be known that I am a woman in a heterosexual relationship and the things that you said about women and men in hetero relationships does not speak for me and my boyfriend.

And I don't hate men, dammit!

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

Seriously right?

Holy ****t howd this post turn into this...cat fights allnight on here lol

Biologically means she would have female chromosomes and/or reproductive organs. Since you said she is transgendered and not a hermaphrodite then i doubt, biologically shes a women. and yeah, im a bout 99.9999% sure if i didn't put that in there i'd been called a homophobe or some BS that ya'll like to throw my way

There is no such thing as "biologically male" or "biologically female". Biology is not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be. Any biologist will agree. Having a penis does not make a person a man.
Biological sex is a combination of genotype and phenotype.
Phenotype is way more important in social interactions than genotype. Most people never find out what their genotype is.
With today's technology, phenotype can be changed.
Primary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Secondary sexual characteristics? Can be changed.
Endocrine levels? Can be changed.

Also, true hermaphrodites do not exist. I believe the word you're looking for is intersex.

Hey Umeboshi,

I think the people you'll want to talk to are geneticists. I'm not sure who exactly these biologists are that you are referring to. I mean no disrespect to you or your girlfriend, because I fully support that if she feels that she is a woman, then she is. And she can do all the things you listed.. surgery, hormone therapy, legal sex change.. to make others think the same.

But she cannot change her genotype. Your DNA is fixed, and therefore you CAN be categorized. There are different variations of our sexual genetics, though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7965425
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22246/

It's incredibly interesting, I think.

I never said genotype could be changed.
But I did point out that genotype isn't the sole thing that decides 'male' or 'female' "biologically", and that it doesn't count in social situations.
And she has XX chromosomes, so take of that what you will.