guns or no guns?

How about this one.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

Murder rate with firearm statistics per 100,000

US Average - 2.84 per 100,000.

Texas - 3.14. per 100,000
Washington - 1.38 per 100,000
New York - 2.64.per 100,00

UK - 0.07 per 100,000.

Care to admit you are totally wrong?

Just for extra clarity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Intentional homicide rates by country (any weapon or method).

USA - 4.8 per 100,000

UK - 1.23 per 100,000.

Care to explain why that is then?.

Had this discussion with people at work. They know I train- extensively- in tactical shooting and they all said "Too bad you were not there- you could have stopped it" I told them nope- I would not have taken a shot- they all went and asked why not. The reasons was:

First off I am not a cop. I have no duty to protect and defend anyone but myself and my family. During an active shooter situation I am headed in the opposite direction and will engage ONLY if I have no choice (i.e. hes between me and the exit, I am a target, etc). Police are trained to respond with overwhelming force and shoot down an active shooter- I sure as hell dont want to be engaging the threat when the cop or another CCWer sees me, decides I am the threat and guns me down.

As for the Aurora shooter- no one can be condition Red all the time. I would never have expected that attack. Trying to engage this threat in a smoke filled, darkened theater with a strobe effect occuring from the movie still playing, a hundred plus people screaming and running everywhere, others on the ground bleeding out, other people in costume, gunshots muffled by the movie, plus the threat was wearing all black? How do you pick him out of all that in the time you have?

My training for an active shooter is to go for the head or four across the pelvis as many active shooters now wear body armor. This guy owuld have been a bear to bring down- he was wearing armor across the pelvis and a head shot in these conditions would be extremely difficult to make (plus his head was armored on most sides and a gas mask makes going for the head shot even more problematic). Add in the fact that I am a good guy- every bullet that leaves my muzzle has a lawyer attached to it. If I could have stopped the shooter but killed two innocents in the exchange I am looking at prison time and lawsuits. Plus a pistol versus rifle? no contest- I carry a pistol because I am not expecting a gun fight, if I am expecting one I am going for my rifle!

To the people saying the Batman tradgedy would have turned out differently if someone had a gun on them, I think you're living in a movie. Seriously. This is real life, NOT a movie.

Like someone would have saved the day and shot him down, and all would have been okay. Oh, really?

How about, if his LEGALLY OBTAINED guns didn't exist or weren't sold to him, those people wouldn't have been killed, least not by bullets.

You can't be serious. So you think that if James Holmes had been unable to buy his weapons at Bass Pro that he just would have said "well, maybe I won't commit this heinous crime after all. Probably going to be too much effort to find guns". Please. He just would have paid more and gotten even wilder ones from the underground dealers. He planned this for several years. You are being really naive.

Yep. Which is why this sort of thing happens on a regular basis in America and almost never here.

But it's just a coincedence, right?

Our wannabe gangsters find ways to get guns, and they kill their stupid little rivals. Rarely innocents, and when they do, it's not a mass shooting.

But it's all coincedence.

How do you disarm criminals?

Relevance?

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty. Benjamin Franklin

"The Constitution shall never be construed....to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms" (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87)

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed – unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. – James Madison

After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military. – William S. Burrough

When they took the 4th Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs.
When they took the 6th Amendment, I was quiet because I am innocent.
When they took the 2nd Amendment, I was quiet because I don't own a gun.
Now they have taken the 1st Amendment, and I can only be quiet.
– Lyle Myhr

Those who beat their swords into plough shares shall plough for those who don't. – Anonymous

An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject: Unknown