guns or no guns?

Ya because these shootings ONLY happen in the US.....

They don't happen here! It's great. Only shootings in Ireland are drug dealers ****ing each other up

No they just try and blow each other up:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/09/northern-ireland-bomb-attempt

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17877896

you clearly want a one size fits all solution

i hate to break it to you. but people will inevitably die. they will be shot, stabbed, raped, dismembered, tortured, crashed, exploded, etc.

you have to break it down piece by piece though, start a thread about explosive awareness if you are really THAT interested in it.

Oh and mass shootings do happen in Ireland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Massereene_Barracks_shooting

there are a few linked in that article.

I didnt get in the last thread so I'm sure its been said before..
guns dont kill people, people kill people...

^^^ what he said - There are many things that are used to kill people - should we get rid of Kool Aid cause someone laced it and killed people, or Cars becasue a drunk driver lost control and killed someone the list goes on....................People are the killers not the items used to do the killing - a person is the one who handles the items and uses it .

I forget it's sometimes necessary to put "/sarcasm" at the end of an obviously sarcastic statement.

I didn't require the same from you to interpret yours as such.

The previous thread was full of this "guns don't kill people" sentiment. I was mocking it.

Edited: I don't even know how to spell sarcasm

I knew that you were being sarcastic.

So this thread is obviously knee jerk reaction crap to the Colorado shootings, here's the thing, if the dude wanted to shoot the place up and couldn't buy his guns legally he would have gotten the illegally. If you want to stop acts such as this here the key, go after the news groups. Jack offs like this want the fame, if you report the crime but never utter the person's name, never show his picture, only refer to him as coward, sissy, *****, loser, or other derogatory names then focus on the names of the victims you will take away the thing all this pathetic little losers are chasing, 15 min of fame. If we as a nation could come together and agree to do that you would deter so many in the future. I bet pretty much everyone on this thread can name the shooter, how many can name the victims without googling it right now? exactly.
I can already tell you what the next few months will bring. Victims families and lawmakers will seek to tighten up laws on gun control, because not breaking the law is clearly on the top of every criminals to do list. They will then pass a law or 90 to prove that we care, this dog and pony show will run for about a month before everyone moves on to the next shiney bell the Media shakes in front of us. We will then continue to be no safer than we were before. Movie theaters are already banning costumes in theaters, the shooter didn't even show up in a costume. He propped a back door, went to get his gear, came back and went on the attack, so how has not letting a kid dress as batman to see batman make us any safer?
For those who think a stricter gun law is what we need lets pose this question. In many states a sex offender must remain 100yards or more from schools, parks, and other places kids congregate. Violating this can result in a class A misdermeanor or by a far stretch maybe a felony. This person is going to a park with the intention of attacking a child and commiting multiple felonies as well as destroyiong that childs life, do you think the thing stopping them is a law that says they cannot go to where the kid is? wake up and quit being so stupid, pass all the gun laws you want, that just means only the criminals will be armed.

i didn't read all of this, but your first paragraph is false

mental health issues are so commonplace and governments around the globe deal with them in very ****ty ways.

So why are politicians going after guns instead of addressing the real issues? Why are they parading around in the blood of innocent people?

because politicians are idiots!!! but guns are also a real issue. there are many involved here.

edit: the mayor of toronto thinks our violence issues are immigration. politicians have never been smart or relied on data. they rely on votes. and clearly this is why they haven't outlawed them in the states. look at how much you people love your firearms.
and to the other poster, we know people kill people.....................obviously. some of you are too much.

Why arent people flipping over the worse mass death in texas?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/23/us/texas-truck-wreck/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

i am going back to prevention

people already invest time in collission free driving courses, or choose to not drive due to the anxiety. i didn't even read the article because it doesn't pertain and is totally not applicable, kind of like the "knives kill people, let's ban knives" argument. it is nonsensical.

Not to point out the elephant in the room but one of your complaints about politicians before you edited it was they don't rely on facts, which let's face it means they don't do the research, kinda like how you rebutted on a comment you openly admit you didn't read fully. Are you planning a run for office soon?

Ya because these shootings ONLY happen in the US.....

They don't happen here! It's great. Only shootings in Ireland are drug dealers ****ing each other up

No they just try and blow each other up:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/09/northern-ireland-bomb-attempt

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17877896

you clearly want a one size fits all solution

i hate to break it to you. but people will inevitably die. they will be shot, stabbed, raped, dismembered, tortured, crashed, exploded, etc.

you have to break it down piece by piece though, start a thread about explosive awareness if you are really THAT interested in it.

Oh and mass shootings do happen in Ireland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Massereene_Barracks_shooting

there are a few linked in that article.

Erm, that was in a different country.

Yep, in Ireland.

Northern Ireland =/= Ireland.

Ya because these shootings ONLY happen in the US.....

They don't happen here! It's great. Only shootings in Ireland are drug dealers ****ing each other up

No they just try and blow each other up:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/09/northern-ireland-bomb-attempt

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17877896

you clearly want a one size fits all solution

i hate to break it to you. but people will inevitably die. they will be shot, stabbed, raped, dismembered, tortured, crashed, exploded, etc.

you have to break it down piece by piece though, start a thread about explosive awareness if you are really THAT interested in it.

Oh and mass shootings do happen in Ireland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Massereene_Barracks_shooting

there are a few linked in that article.

Erm, that was in a different country.

Yep, in Ireland.

Nope, In Northern Ireland. It's a different country.

See? Gimme a sec to post a pretty picture.. no idea how to do it.

So this thread is obviously knee jerk reaction crap to the Colorado shootings, here's the thing, if the dude wanted to shoot the place up and couldn't buy his guns legally he would have gotten the illegally. If you want to stop acts such as this here the key, go after the news groups. Jack offs like this want the fame, if you report the crime but never utter the person's name, never show his picture, only refer to him as coward, sissy, *****, loser, or other derogatory names then focus on the names of the victims you will take away the thing all this pathetic little losers are chasing, 15 min of fame. If we as a nation could come together and agree to do that you would deter so many in the future. I bet pretty much everyone on this thread can name the shooter, how many can name the victims without googling it right now? exactly.
I can already tell you what the next few months will bring. Victims families and lawmakers will seek to tighten up laws on gun control, because not breaking the law is clearly on the top of every criminals to do list. They will then pass a law or 90 to prove that we care, this dog and pony show will run for about a month before everyone moves on to the next shiney bell the Media shakes in front of us. We will then continue to be no safer than we were before. Movie theaters are already banning costumes in theaters, the shooter didn't even show up in a costume. He propped a back door, went to get his gear, came back and went on the attack, so how has not letting a kid dress as batman to see batman make us any safer?
For those who think a stricter gun law is what we need lets pose this question. In many states a sex offender must remain 100yards or more from schools, parks, and other places kids congregate. Violating this can result in a class A misdermeanor or by a far stretch maybe a felony. This person is going to a park with the intention of attacking a child and commiting multiple felonies as well as destroyiong that childs life, do you think the thing stopping them is a law that says they cannot go to where the kid is? wake up and quit being so stupid, pass all the gun laws you want, that just means only the criminals will be armed.

i didn't read all of this, but your first paragraph is false

mental health issues are so commonplace and governments around the globe deal with them in very ****ty ways.

So why are politicians going after guns instead of addressing the real issues? Why are they parading around in the blood of innocent people?

because politicians are idiots!!! but guns are also a real issue. there are many involved here.

edit: the mayor of toronto thinks our violence issues are immigration. politicians have never been smart or relied on data. they rely on votes. and clearly this is why they haven't outlawed them in the states. look at how much you people love your firearms.
and to the other poster, we know people kill people.....................obviously. some of you are too much.

Why arent people flipping over the worse mass death in texas?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/23/us/texas-truck-wreck/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

i am going back to prevention

people already invest time in collission free driving courses, or choose to not drive due to the anxiety. i didn't even read the article because it doesn't pertain and is totally not applicable, kind of like the "knives kill people, let's ban knives" argument. it is nonsensical.

Ah gotcha....some human life is more valuable than others?

Actually no. The reason the article you linked is not on point is that those people were doing something illegal well before the truck crashed. The gunman in Colorado didn't break the law until he suited up and entered the cinema with the smoke bombs. We can't prevent everything, but there are laws in place to prevent the deaths you referenced.

I didn't read the thread this was continued from, but I will say that "guns v. no guns" as the title indicates is a ridiculous premise anyway. "No guns" is not an option in America, therefore not worth debating. The debate is whether we should still allow civilians to purchase military grade weapons lawfully. At the very least we should try to a have a real discussion. I was shocked when there was no real push to to make the sale and ownership of high-capacity clips unlawful after Giffords' shooting. This gunman used a high capacity clip as well, as have most of the shooters in the past incidents we have seen like this. We need to do something. Maybe its make those clips unlawful, maybe its impose stricter limitations and longer waiting periods/training before someone can own a gun. Maybe we require psychiatric evaluations to own a gun. Maybe we take an interest when someone purchases 4 weapons in 2 months, and ask why. Maybe we do all of the above.

We at least need to have a real discussion.

Pro-Gun and Pro-responsible use and ownership of said gun.

Should I be anti-fertilizer so that people can't make home-made bombs to blow the **** out of a building full of inncoent workers. Or would I be wrong because that is not fair to the farmers who use it as it is intended.

Snipped for brevity since my own post is long, but I agree with the entire post. It's very easy for people to point at the guns and gasp about things, and anytime that there's a murder - particularly such a public one - this inevitably comes up.

People want something to blame and they focus on the easiest thing to focus on. "Guns" are a concept with a physicality that they can latch onto, point fingers at, and comprehend. Mental illness? Not so much. What do you do about mental illness? How do you fix that? So much easier to attack the weapon used, and it's so much easier for the politicians to use and the news to make headlines with.

Reality, conversely, is difficult and messy and nebulous.

It's a circular debate, with people saying to "ban guns" and the rest saying that in banning the guns only the criminals will have them. Agreeing or disagreeing with the possession of guns tends to come down to the perspective that one has on life, and there's rarely any changing of that.

Me, I look at the 2nd Amendment for what it is. To stand up to the police force or the government as need be, if need be. I see the wisdom in this, particularly based on how the U.S. was founded, and it saddens me when people try to argue "hunting" as the only reason to possess firearms. Why should anyone need bigger guns? Simple: Because the government & police forces have access to bigger guns, and you can't stand up to them if you're not on equal ground.

That's me, though. Others scoff at the idea that such a thing would ever be necessary. Honestly, there's a part of me that's happy for that. Why? Because they CAN feel right saying those things. As messed up as our U.S. government is - and it is seriously messed up IMO - it's still incredibly far fetched to say that we'd need to ever exercise the purpose behind the 2nd amendment: For the security of a free state.

With all of that said, I absolutely believe that training should be a requirement to gun ownership. Others would argue that this would be a "tax" on the possession of firearms and therefore would be an indirect way to limit them. I say make training a requirement at least to anything over the most basic hand gun because people need to respect the weapon that they own. IMO you can't respect the weapon if you don't know the weapon.

Ultimately, most people who own guns are responsible people, and they go through the process of obtaining the guns (all of the background checking nonsense, the months of waiting, and so on) because they're law abiding citizens. Their guns aren't used unless absolutely necessary, much like I don't go around beating random people up with my martial arts training just because I have said training.

Anyway, this is an issue that a single person could write a small book about, and I can only look at this from the perspective of a U.S. citizen as it is. I have my perspective, others have their own. I respect the emotions and the thoughts of those who disagree with me, but they will no sooner convince me that guns should be banned than I will convince them that every house hold should have at least one firearm.