always friendzoned - advice?
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Dude...don't waste time picking up girls with no interest in you...doesn't make any sense....look for signs like her checking you out, smiling at you, touching you playfully, complimenting you, always saying hi to you, seems happy...or shy around you. I stopped approaching women not giving me any interest....waste of time and it makes you seem thirsty to approach any woman everyday.0
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HumboldtFred wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »
It surprises me when average-looking guys sincerely believe they're entitled to a model-like girlfriend. I think the problem is that they don't really see themselves as a 5 or 6 but have an inflated perception of their attractiveness. This is the only way I can understand why an average guy with nothing out of the ordinary going for him (crazy talent, fame, etc.) feels it's realistic.
Wow. I wonder what its like when your poop doesn't stink. Can you tell me?
I have no idea. You should ask one of those men with unrealistic expectations.
In case you are confused, I am not a model-like person and I don't aim for guys who are out of my league.
So my question to you is this. What happens when beauty or status changes?
I married someone who was stunningly beautiful. All of my friends, (even my family) thought she was way out of "my league." It just so happens that she didn't. Maybe she saw something inside me that showed that when accidents happen and scars and burns covered her beauty I would still love her. We have since gone our own ways but she still commands my respect and I think her not an iota less beautiful than the day I met her at sixteen years of age.
So what is your contingency plan for when your man becomes ugly, sick, scarred, wrinkled, or unemployed. Are you going to cash him in on a new model or just denigrate yourself until your status and beauty matches his?
Neither. That's a superficial question and completely ignores the personality component of attraction. Would a stellar personality bring a 3 up to an 11? Absolutely.
Back to my original comment, a guy who's a 5 and feels entitled to a really attractive woman does not get any points for personality. I'm not talking about a "maybe it will happen and I'll be a lucky fella" type of situation but the average-looking guys who become derisive at the idea of dating someone who's "just an 8". They're shallow and I don't get it.0 -
Winter I understand the "entitlement" stance and agree with you. I wonder how many guys like that would know what an "8" was if someone had not told them.0
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amyrebeccah wrote: »
So what is your contingency plan for when your man becomes ugly, sick, scarred, wrinkled, or unemployed. Are you going to cash him in on a new model or just denigrate yourself until your status and beauty matches his?
Like attracts like. If you choose someone who's a shallow a**hole you should not be surprised when she/he acts as such.
Besides, rates of divorce are higher when it is the woman who becomes ill.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/03/06/in-sickness-and-health-wifes-serious-illness-increases-chance-of-divorce-later-in-life-husbands-doesnt/
Stop confusing the issue with facts. Women are just shallow *kitten* and that's why they won't have sex with me, even though I'm such a nice guy and pretend to respect them and everything.
The other dude is right...you attract what you are...that's why couples tend to match in some way or another. Don't be that hippie faking being someone else or else they probably sense it on you.0 -
...? League? What league? Alright, I agree that a lot of guys have an inflated sense of their own attractiveness because they are not quite as constantly and mercilessly bombarded by negativity from every single form of media ("you have cellulite" "you are bloated, eat this yogurt" "wear these spax panties" "wear better makeup" "buy this cream for your wrinkles" "spend or you will look like *kitten*"), even though that, too, seems to be changing.
But I wouldn't want these guys to be less confident, you know. What I would want is for more women to be more confident. Equity should go upwards, not downwards. If they are in *kitten* love with themselves, good for them.
If they are confident hitting on women that society perceives our "our of their league", why should they not? Maybe they'll get repeatedly rejected and lose the entitlement. Maybe they'll be become bitter lonely misogynistic jerks that people will distance themselves from; too bad. Maybe they'll just meet this one person that will want them back as furiously, and see them as a perfect ten according to her own very personal criteria, and jaws will drop. Maybe -hopefully- they'll change their own criteria eventually, and realize there are things that matter more than looks.
Whatever. I don't like the idea of people belonging to conceptual "castes" and choosing partners from the same "caste". What are we, 15th century feudal Indonesia?0 -
Hey!
What do girls care for (first)?
Looks? Sympathy? Weight? Stature?
How do you girls give hints to the guy?
Just eye contact? or something else?
I purposely didn't read the responses yet, so this is my uninfluenced reaction. For the record I am a single woman but probably a little older than the women you are dating (I'm 42).
I'd say that you need to stop thinking of girls as one monolithic group--"girls" don't all like or do one thing. We are all unique individuals. Don't respond to us as a category of people but as individuals who you need to get to know. It's like saying "What do guys like?" Well WHICH guys? Sure, there are some things we all share, being the same sex and species ... but get to know us as people. Of course we like to be well-treated and to like and respect and be drawn to who we are with. But that's universal, not a female thing.
Also, work on becoming the best version of you, according to YOUR goals and values (hopefully worthy goals and positive values). Eventually you'll attract someone who likes that sort of thing and she'll be a good fit for you. When you try to morph yourself into some witty outgoing person if you really are an introvert... or try to be some player when it isn't your style.... you just look fake. Or worse, you'll just end up with someone who likes this facade you put on to catch girls, not the real you.
Finally, look for someone who works with who you are, realizing that she might be someone who is shy, or not outwardly gorgeous, or whatever. But when you get to know her, she is an overlooked gem. I used to get frustrated when I was younger and kinda plain and brainy looking that all these nice guys would cry to me about how women were all self centered and rejected nice guys because they didn't have a nice car or six pack abs. Then I'd look at them (average guy) and at the women they were pining after (supermodel looks and body and nice clothes from some rich person's credit card) and wonder if he noticed that the problem wasn't that "women" were that way, but that THE KIND OF WOMEN HE CHASED were that way. Ironically, he exclusively chased the kind of person that he angrily accused them of chasing exclusively. At least those women were chasing men in their league, so to speak... with equal looks and cash. He wasn't... and kept being alone while awesome women who actually would be more compatible with him (like me....) were being overlooked.
If you've gone on that many dates with no luck, I would diagnose the problem as being one of the following...
1. You are chasing the kind of woman who would never actually like you because they are looking for someone who you are not. You might trick them by making your online profile appear to be what they want, or memorizing the right words to say on the first date... but in person they see through it. It's like women on dating sites who are overweight but put a skinny photo or men who are balding and obscure it. If someone is bothered by those traits, hiding them on the profile is only delaying the inevitable rejection. Put your cards on the table, be who you are (okay, the "first date" version of who you are which is a little bit spiffed up), and see if you can't draw out some suitable women who happen to like that sort of thing. They will be fewer in number, but better prospects in the long run.
2. Maybe you are drawing out suitable women, but your social skills are off-putting. Stop reading books and trying to be a player. Just be your normal self, talking transparently to a fellow human being... and actually listening and asking about what they think. Be courteous, polite, respectful, kind, and real. Not scripted.
3. You're doing nothing wrong and blah blah it just takes time blah blah. It is always possible too. But somewhat annoying since you can't control that, except to be patient.
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slideaway1 wrote: »God knows mate. I have no idea how girls minds work. Try acting a bit more like a dickhead. Single girls in todays dating game seem to respond to that
See my other post. Maybe the problem isn't that single girls are that way, but that the single girls you find yourself drawn to are like that. It seems they suffer from low self esteem and lack good judgement about men... that's the kind that finds "dickhead" sexy. I wonder if a confident and classy woman--the kind who wouldn't take that kind of crap off a guy--would completely be unsexy to you.
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Sorry, I have been Andqvelling and unable to catch up.
The main thing I keep seeing repeated is that my comment about women not knowing what they want is false. But I'm not wrong in this. The reason why is because people can make a list of things they want in a partner, yet end up attracted to someone completely different. "I don't know, there was just something about him/her that I really liked."
It's not something you can list out. Attraction doesn't always follow what you think you want. I wish it did, because I have been in relationships with some very good women, only to have my attraction to them wane and ultimately die.
I've dated a lot of women. Except for one, I am on friendly terms with all of them. The advice I give is based on experience with what leads to a relationship vs what leads to being "Friend Zoned." If you've never been a man who has successfully dated women, then you might not be the best source of advice for a man trying, unsuccessfully, to date women. I know you won't like that idea. I know I've made myself unpopular in sharing these ideas. I'm OK with that. I don't like it, but there you go.
The dreaded "Friend Zone" is definitely real. What happens is a man meets a woman and is physically attracted to her, but for whatever reason, she is not physically attracted to him. She still likes him as a person, but not as a partner. The "Friend Zone" happens when one person in a relationship feels a physical reaction to the other, but that attraction is not mutual. The toughest part of attraction is you can't turn it on or off at will. For instance, you develop a "crush" on a coworker. You know it's not going to happen and you'd probably prefer your feelings subside, but it's not that easy! It is real and it does happen. Honestly, its a simple concept we might refer to as unrequited love. This claim that a man thinks he's entitled to sex because he's nice may be true for some men, but most of the time he 'turned her off' to himself or she never felt that attraction in the first place, yet he still feels that attraction. I've done that, and I've also been on the other end with several women. So, while this concept is, once again, unpopular, it is a real thing. Friend Zone simply means, I am physically attracted to her and she is not physically attracted to me, but we still see each other regularly. I have, on multiple occasions, told a woman that, no, I don't want to see you for a movie/biking/whatever, because I am attracted to you and I know you're not into me like that. Just seemed easier.0 -
And I am typing this on a mobile device...holy crap. Please excuse any grammatical and spelling errors!0
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TheLegendaryBrandonHarris wrote: »Sorry, I have been Andqvelling and unable to catch up.
The main thing I keep seeing repeated is that my comment about women not knowing what they want is false. But I'm not wrong in this. The reason why is because people can make a list of things they want in a partner, yet end up attracted to someone completely different. "I don't know, there was just something about him/her that I really liked."
It's not something you can list out. Attraction doesn't always follow what you think you want. I wish it did, because I have been in relationships with some very good women, only to have my attraction to them wane and ultimately die.
I've dated a lot of women. Except for one, I am on friendly terms with all of them. The advice I give is based on experience with what leads to a relationship vs what leads to being "Friend Zoned." If you've never been a man who has successfully dated women, then you might not be the best source of advice for a man trying, unsuccessfully, to date women. I know you won't like that idea. I know I've made myself unpopular in sharing these ideas. I'm OK with that. I don't like it, but there you go.
The dreaded "Friend Zone" is definitely real. What happens is a man meets a woman and is physically attracted to her, but for whatever reason, she is not physically attracted to him. She still likes him as a person, but not as a partner. The "Friend Zone" happens when one person in a relationship feels a physical reaction to the other, but that attraction is not mutual. The toughest part of attraction is you can't turn it on or off at will. For instance, you develop a "crush" on a coworker. You know it's not going to happen and you'd probably prefer your feelings subside, but it's not that easy! It is real and it does happen. Honestly, its a simple concept we might refer to as unrequited love. This claim that a man thinks he's entitled to sex because he's nice may be true for some men, but most of the time he 'turned her off' to himself or she never felt that attraction in the first place, yet he still feels that attraction. I've done that, and I've also been on the other end with several women. So, while this concept is, once again, unpopular, it is a real thing. Friend Zone simply means, I am physically attracted to her and she is not physically attracted to me, but we still see each other regularly. I have, on multiple occasions, told a woman that, no, I don't want to see you for a movie/biking/whatever, because I am attracted to you and I know you're not into me like that. Just seemed easier.
Preach0 -
slideaway1 wrote: »God knows mate. I have no idea how girls minds work. Try acting a bit more like a dickhead. Single girls in todays dating game seem to respond to that
Sad, but true for many girls0 -
The best advice I can give is try to make yourself into the best man you can be, and you will attract good women. And go by the traditional things women find attractive. Be physally fit, or on your way to physical fitness, and take care of yourself. Take pride in your appearance---your clothes match and are clean, you take care of your teeth and hair and beard, you eat good foods. Take care of your possessions. If you won't take care of your vehicle or your kitchen, can you take care of your partner? She's going to think this. A partner is not a possession...she can leave anytime she likes. So if you want her to want to stay, little things like that can go a long way in demonstrating that you care about the details, and it'll help show her that you are a keeper.
Take pride in your work. If you clean the bubble gum from underneath the cafeteria table for minimum wage, you do it right, because you know your name is attached to your work.
And Number 1---be kind to others. All the time. The wait staff, the cashiers, children. Someone said previously that her boyfriend flipped out over a debit card problem and was unkind to the cashier. And she found that incredibly unattractive. Because it is. And the thing about kindness is you can't fake it. She'll know you're some chump trying to hoodwink her. So it's gotta come from your character. Be a good man, and you'll attract a good woman.0 -
Gah!!!! Sorry, sorry, I left something out!
NO COMPLAINING! Don't do it. It's OK to mention a problem you are having, but DO NOT come off as a passive character in your own life. It makes women think you are powerless.0 -
HumboldtFred wrote: »
I avoid asking out women that are being paid to be nice to me. if I just can't live without asking that bank teller or waitress out on a date, it needs to be neutral ground where she is comfortable telling me No without compromising her customer service job.
Thank you for this. There are a lot of things that bother me working in retail but having someone flirt is in the top 3 along with people saying things just to hurt my feelings (rather than complaining/constructive criticism, just being malicious.) I hope they just don't realize I'm being nice to them because it's my job, but sometimes it really feels like they're using my situation to their advantage. So thanks for not doing that!0 -
wingsandgills wrote: »HumboldtFred wrote: »
Thank you for this. There are a lot of things that bother me working in retail but having someone flirt is in the top 3 along with people saying things just to hurt my feelings (rather than complaining/constructive criticism, just being malicious.) I hope they just don't realize I'm being nice to them because it's my job, but sometimes it really feels like they're using my situation to their advantage. So thanks for not doing that!
Yes! It's unfair and a little delusional to think that some whose job is to be friendly has somehow singled YOU out as the object of their affection. There is a girl who works in the cafeteria in my office building...she is absolutely delightful. I bet I go down there most of the time because I enjoy interacting with her.
But I hold no illusions that there is something special about me---she is that friendly and positive towards everyone. So I told her boss. "You know, she is an exceptional cashier. She has something positive to say and a compliment for every single person that comes through her line. You've got a good employee."
I don't know if a good review from a lowly Journal Writer will get her a raise or a pat on the back, but I like to hope so.0 -
OK, sorry...mobile issues again...whoops.0
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TheLegendaryBrandonHarris wrote: »Sorry, I have been Andqvelling and unable to catch up.
The main thing I keep seeing repeated is that my comment about women not knowing what they want is false. But I'm not wrong in this. The reason why is because people can make a list of things they want in a partner, yet end up attracted to someone completely different. "I don't know, there was just something about him/her that I really liked."
It's not something you can list out. Attraction doesn't always follow what you think you want. I wish it did, because I have been in relationships with some very good women, only to have my attraction to them wane and ultimately die.
I think people misunderstood the intent of your message. Of course both men and women are like that--we don't usually have a checklist of concrete attributes we want. This is definitely another good reason not to just ask a general group of people what they look for. Vague categories like "attractive" or "we need something in common" is about all you can get, and yet those same people could end up happily with someone who was less attractive than their "standard" and has nothing in common with them. XDTheLegendaryBrandonHarris wrote: »The dreaded "Friend Zone" is definitely real. What happens is a man meets a woman and is physically attracted to her, but for whatever reason, she is not physically attracted to him. She still likes him as a person, but not as a partner. The "Friend Zone" happens when one person in a relationship feels a physical reaction to the other, but that attraction is not mutual. The toughest part of attraction is you can't turn it on or off at will. For instance, you develop a "crush" on a coworker. You know it's not going to happen and you'd probably prefer your feelings subside, but it's not that easy! It is real and it does happen. Honestly, its a simple concept we might refer to as unrequited love. This claim that a man thinks he's entitled to sex because he's nice may be true for some men, but most of the time he 'turned her off' to himself or she never felt that attraction in the first place, yet he still feels that attraction.
This is a sound argument, and I agree with everything you've said. (Except: in cases where I've expressed attraction to someone and they've turned me down, I've always lost my attraction for them. Not in a vindictive way, but with the thought of "Well, that's not gonna happen," and that's it.) Sadly, though, the Friend Zone thing has mutated into a fallback for people to feel completely unaccountable for their actions and think of themselves as total victims. So I guess if not "The Friend Zone doesn't exist," then "The Friend Zone is never a good reason to be disrespectful to others," at the very least!
Overall I think people like the OP have come to the conclusion that they need to become a different person, which is sad. It might be true that self-improvement is in order, but then I think everyone should have a little self-improvement in mind. That's not the same thing as transforming yourself into whatever you think another person wants.0 -
Sigh...there I go, quoting myself again.0
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TheLegendaryBrandonHarris wrote: »The best advice I can give is try to make yourself into the best man you can be, and you will attract good women. And go by the traditional things women find attractive. Be physally fit, or on your way to physical fitness, and take care of yourself. Take pride in your appearance---your clothes match and are clean, you take care of your teeth and hair and beard, you eat good foods. Take care of your possessions. If you won't take care of your vehicle or your kitchen, can you take care of your partner? She's going to think this. A partner is not a possession...she can leave anytime she likes. So if you want her to want to stay, little things like that can go a long way in demonstrating that you care about the details, and it'll help show her that you are a keeper.
Take pride in your work. If you clean the bubble gum from underneath the cafeteria table for minimum wage, you do it right, because you know your name is attached to your work.
And Number 1---be kind to others. All the time. The wait staff, the cashiers, children. Someone said previously that her boyfriend flipped out over a debit card problem and was unkind to the cashier. And she found that incredibly unattractive. Because it is. And the thing about kindness is you can't fake it. She'll know you're some chump trying to hoodwink her. So it's gotta come from your character. Be a good man, and you'll attract a good woman.
Don't forget to be yourself...women can spot a faker.
Oh and no pick up lines...pick up lines are so 1990s.0 -
Amyrebeccah, the op was asking about women. So my response was in regards to women.0
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