Four bags of Oreos
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[/quote]
Clearly you stopped reading the article, as here is a direct quote from it:
"You can’t just take an 8-ounce glass of cola and add a serving of Metamucil and create a health food,” Dr. Ludwig said. “Even though the fructose-to-fiber ratio might be the same as an apple, the biological effects would be much different.”[/quote]
Why?[/quote]
Do you need me to paste the entire article? Here is the very next paragraph:
Fiber provides “its greatest benefit when the cell walls that contain it remain intact,” he said. Sugars are effectively sequestered in the fruit’s cells, he explained, and it takes time for the digestive tract to break down those cells. The sugars therefore enter the bloodstream slowly, giving the liver more time to metabolize them. Four apples may contain the same amount of sugar as 24 ounces of soda, but the slow rate of absorption minimizes any surge in blood sugar. Repeated surges in blood sugar make the pancreas work harder and can contribute to insulin resistance, thereby increasing the risk for Type 2 diabetes.0 -
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/making-the-case-for-eating-fruit/?_r=0
Here is an article discussing why it is better for your body to get sugar from whole fruit rather than added refined.
I stopped reading at Ludwig....
I will see your blog, and raise you with this one...
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
also, just because you get fiber from fruit does not make the sugar in fruit better. If I eat added sugar and take a multivitamin does it become good???
Clearly you stopped reading the article, as here is a direct quote from it:
"You can’t just take an 8-ounce glass of cola and add a serving of Metamucil and create a health food,” Dr. Ludwig said. “Even though the fructose-to-fiber ratio might be the same as an apple, the biological effects would be much different.”
why not? it has fiber in it, same as fruit...
because your body breaks down the fruit, which combines the items together, differently than it does the items when they are separate. Here's an unrelated example for you - pour some oil in a glass. then pour some vinegar. Now pour the same amounts into a jar and emulsify them. Now return each example to its original state of separate oil and vinegar.
I'm not some whole foods person, and I eat plenty of refined sugar and carbs, but you have to be a little daft to not think that it is healthier to satisfy a sweet craving by eating a piece of whole fruit rather than an Oreo cookie.
Except that's not what Ludwig means when he's talking, even if what you said made a lick of sense.
Ludwig is referring to GI, I'd bet a kidney on it.
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http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/making-the-case-for-eating-fruit/?_r=0
Here is an article discussing why it is better for your body to get sugar from whole fruit rather than added refined.
I stopped reading at Ludwig....
I will see your blog, and raise you with this one...
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
also, just because you get fiber from fruit does not make the sugar in fruit better. If I eat added sugar and take a multivitamin does it become good???
Clearly you stopped reading the article, as here is a direct quote from it:
"You can’t just take an 8-ounce glass of cola and add a serving of Metamucil and create a health food,” Dr. Ludwig said. “Even though the fructose-to-fiber ratio might be the same as an apple, the biological effects would be much different.”
why not? it has fiber in it, same as fruit...
because your body breaks down the fruit, which combines the items together, differently than it does the items when they are separate. Here's an unrelated example for you - pour some oil in a glass. then pour some vinegar. Now pour the same amounts into a jar and emulsify them. Now return each example to its original state of separate oil and vinegar.
I'm not some whole foods person, and I eat plenty of refined sugar and carbs, but you have to be a little daft to not think that it is healthier to satisfy a sweet craving by eating a piece of whole fruit rather than an Oreo cookie.
so what if I eat my snickers and then take the fiber pill, are you trying to say that the ten minute differential makes that much of a difference? Sorry, going to need more scientific proof of this then just because you say so.
What the hell does oil and vinegar have to do with sugar in fruit vs refined sugar? That has absolutely nothing to do with anything we are talking about.
So anyone that thinks it is OK to eat an Oreo instead of fruit is an idiot???? If I have hit my micros for the day, what difference does it make if I have an oreo or fruit? Are you daft enough to think that you get extra credit for eating additional micros...?0 -
Have you ever suggested therapy for him? Or maybe for both of you? It might be worth it to try and figure out why he gravitates towards things that exacerbate his disease rather than wanting to improve his health and well-being. Maybe if he understood himself more he might be able to make better choices, and/or you might be able to separate yourself emotionally from his choices.0
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There's nothing wrong with any of those foods, as long as you hit your calorie goals. I wouldn't worry about it.0
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big picture thinking here: it's about how you eat overall, not in one moment. Did you eat well-rounded for the whole day? If you meet your macros, and then have an oreo, you did well. if you ate oreos all day, not so much. If you ate fruit all day, not so much.
[/quote]
I agree, and that's how I eat. But the context here was a person who doesn't eat like that. And on a one to one comparison, fruit is definitely healthier than cookies. I can't even believe that is up for debate.[/quote]
Are you sure he's not eating like that? Sounds like each package only had two cookies out of them.... two cookies at time isn't gorging.0 -
OP, I didn't wade thru the pages. But here's my take. Call your insurance agent and UP his Term Life Insurance, 10x his annual salary or more. Also, go get Long Term Care insurance. Sign his blankety-blank up for it all. Check into nursing homes, in-patient physical therapy type places, and bring those pamphlets home.
You can't change a leopard's spots, but you sure as heck can be prepared for said leopard's stroke, heart attack, loss of limb due to his diabetes, kidney failure, or heaven help you anything worse. At least then, you're covered. And sometimes that peace of mind is worth all his cookies and sausages combined.
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Clearly you stopped reading the article, as here is a direct quote from it:
"You can’t just take an 8-ounce glass of cola and add a serving of Metamucil and create a health food,” Dr. Ludwig said. “Even though the fructose-to-fiber ratio might be the same as an apple, the biological effects would be much different.”
Why?
Do you need me to paste the entire article? Here is the very next paragraph:
Fiber provides “its greatest benefit when the cell walls that contain it remain intact,” he said. Sugars are effectively sequestered in the fruit’s cells, he explained, and it takes time for the digestive tract to break down those cells. The sugars therefore enter the bloodstream slowly, giving the liver more time to metabolize them. Four apples may contain the same amount of sugar as 24 ounces of soda, but the slow rate of absorption minimizes any surge in blood sugar. Repeated surges in blood sugar make the pancreas work harder and can contribute to insulin resistance, thereby increasing the risk for Type 2 diabetes.
^Yup. GI. Which counts on the food being eaten in isolation. And is nonsense.
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Clearly you stopped reading the article, as here is a direct quote from it:
"You can’t just take an 8-ounce glass of cola and add a serving of Metamucil and create a health food,” Dr. Ludwig said. “Even though the fructose-to-fiber ratio might be the same as an apple, the biological effects would be much different.”
Why?
Do you need me to paste the entire article? Here is the very next paragraph:
Fiber provides “its greatest benefit when the cell walls that contain it remain intact,” he said. Sugars are effectively sequestered in the fruit’s cells, he explained, and it takes time for the digestive tract to break down those cells. The sugars therefore enter the bloodstream slowly, giving the liver more time to metabolize them. Four apples may contain the same amount of sugar as 24 ounces of soda, but the slow rate of absorption minimizes any surge in blood sugar. Repeated surges in blood sugar make the pancreas work harder and can contribute to insulin resistance, thereby increasing the risk for Type 2 diabetes.
if the he is "Ludwig" then I am going to need more proof than some sugar fear monger...
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Clearly you stopped reading the article, as here is a direct quote from it:
"You can’t just take an 8-ounce glass of cola and add a serving of Metamucil and create a health food,” Dr. Ludwig said. “Even though the fructose-to-fiber ratio might be the same as an apple, the biological effects would be much different.”[/quote]
Why?[/quote]
Do you need me to paste the entire article? Here is the very next paragraph:
Fiber provides “its greatest benefit when the cell walls that contain it remain intact,” he said. Sugars are effectively sequestered in the fruit’s cells, he explained, and it takes time for the digestive tract to break down those cells. The sugars therefore enter the bloodstream slowly, giving the liver more time to metabolize them. Four apples may contain the same amount of sugar as 24 ounces of soda, but the slow rate of absorption minimizes any surge in blood sugar. Repeated surges in blood sugar make the pancreas work harder and can contribute to insulin resistance, thereby increasing the risk for Type 2 diabetes.[/quote]
You are quoting someone who's arguably biased in his opinions as to how the body utilizes foods.0 -
APeacefulWarrior wrote: »I'm sensing the overall feeling is put up and shut up until the EMT's come to pick one of us up. (I know there are a couple people who have a better understanding of why I'm so upset - I realize that doesn't represent you)
So essentially, if you witnessed your spouse or significant other downing a bottle of poison, you'd just sit back ( or join them) and say "hey, he (or she) is an adult and if they want to finish off that poison, well then, that's their right."? That doesn't seem very loving, concerned or compassionate, but maybe that's where we are as a society... accepting and then sticking your head in the sand to ignore seems to be the expectation. Not sure I can be on board with that, but I think that's what he expects of me too.
I understand perfectly. It's not like he's single. What he does affects your life very heavily as well as his own, and that matters. A marriage involves commitment, responsibility, and sometimes compromise, it does not mean going "lalalala i will do whatever i want regardless of the consequences because i am over 21 years old." When a person gets married, they supposedly accept the responsibility that their behavior greatly affects their spouse and that therefore they may have to make some compromises so as not to make that person's life miserable. You are accepting YOUR spousal responsibility in supporting him and trying to help him stick to the plans his doctor(s) laid out for him. Now he needs to accept his. Does he think you deserve to have to watch him die, and basically make yourself over into a home health nurse, for something he could easily avoid?0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »
^Yup. GI. Which counts on the food being eaten in isolation. And is nonsense.
This
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APeacefulWarrior wrote: »I'm sensing the overall feeling is put up and shut up until the EMT's come to pick one of us up. (I know there are a couple people who have a better understanding of why I'm so upset - I realize that doesn't represent you)
So essentially, if you witnessed your spouse or significant other downing a bottle of poison, you'd just sit back ( or join them) and say "hey, he (or she) is an adult and if they want to finish off that poison, well then, that's their right."? That doesn't seem very loving, concerned or compassionate, but maybe that's where we are as a society... accepting and then sticking your head in the sand to ignore seems to be the expectation. Not sure I can be on board with that, but I think that's what he expects of me too.
I understand perfectly. It's not like he's single. What he does affects your life very heavily as well as his own, and that matters. A marriage involves commitment, responsibility, and sometimes compromise, it does not mean going "lalalala i will do whatever i want regardless of the consequences because i am over 21 years old." When a person gets married, they supposedly accept the responsibility that their behavior greatly affects their spouse and that therefore they may have to make some compromises so as not to make that person's life miserable. You are accepting YOUR spousal responsibility in supporting him and trying to help him stick to the plans his doctor(s) laid out for him. Now he needs to accept his. Does he think you deserve to have to watch him die, and basically make yourself over into a home health nurse, for something he could easily avoid?
Which is why they need to learn to communicate about the whole issue, not control each other or passively let each other do whatever, as so many have suggested. She can't control him by 'throwing everything out', or just let him blithely do whatever he wants. They need to sit down and discuss the situation rationally. Communication in any relationship is definitely the most important aspect.0 -
APeacefulWarrior wrote: »I'm sensing the overall feeling is put up and shut up until the EMT's come to pick one of us up. (I know there are a couple people who have a better understanding of why I'm so upset - I realize that doesn't represent you)
So essentially, if you witnessed your spouse or significant other downing a bottle of poison, you'd just sit back ( or join them) and say "hey, he (or she) is an adult and if they want to finish off that poison, well then, that's their right."? That doesn't seem very loving, concerned or compassionate, but maybe that's where we are as a society... accepting and then sticking your head in the sand to ignore seems to be the expectation. Not sure I can be on board with that, but I think that's what he expects of me too.
I understand perfectly. It's not like he's single. What he does affects your life very heavily as well as his own, and that matters. A marriage involves commitment, responsibility, and sometimes compromise, it does not mean going "lalalala i will do whatever i want regardless of the consequences because i am over 21 years old." When a person gets married, they supposedly accept the responsibility that their behavior greatly affects their spouse and that therefore they may have to make some compromises so as not to make that person's life miserable. You are accepting YOUR spousal responsibility in supporting him and trying to help him stick to the plans his doctor(s) laid out for him. Now he needs to accept his. Does he think you deserve to have to watch him die, and basically make yourself over into a home health nurse, for something he could easily avoid?
Which is why they need to learn to communicate about the whole issue, not control each other or passively let each other do whatever, as so many have suggested. She can't control him by 'throwing everything out', or just let him blithely do whatever he wants. They need to sit down and discuss the situation rationally. Communication in any relationship is definitely the most important aspect.
you mean actually behave like adults?????? Shocking premise....0 -
APeacefulWarrior wrote: »I'm sensing the overall feeling is put up and shut up until the EMT's come to pick one of us up. (I know there are a couple people who have a better understanding of why I'm so upset - I realize that doesn't represent you)
So essentially, if you witnessed your spouse or significant other downing a bottle of poison, you'd just sit back ( or join them) and say "hey, he (or she) is an adult and if they want to finish off that poison, well then, that's their right."? That doesn't seem very loving, concerned or compassionate, but maybe that's where we are as a society... accepting and then sticking your head in the sand to ignore seems to be the expectation. Not sure I can be on board with that, but I think that's what he expects of me too.
I understand perfectly. It's not like he's single. What he does affects your life very heavily as well as his own, and that matters. A marriage involves commitment, responsibility, and sometimes compromise, it does not mean going "lalalala i will do whatever i want regardless of the consequences because i am over 21 years old." When a person gets married, they supposedly accept the responsibility that their behavior greatly affects their spouse and that therefore they may have to make some compromises so as not to make that person's life miserable. You are accepting YOUR spousal responsibility in supporting him and trying to help him stick to the plans his doctor(s) laid out for him. Now he needs to accept his. Does he think you deserve to have to watch him die, and basically make yourself over into a home health nurse, for something he could easily avoid?
Which is why they need to learn to communicate about the whole issue, not control each other or passively let each other do whatever, as so many have suggested. She can't control him by 'throwing everything out', or just let him blithely do whatever he wants. They need to sit down and discuss the situation rationally. Communication in any relationship is definitely the most important aspect.
Have a respectful, adult, loving relationship?
SHOCKING.
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http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/making-the-case-for-eating-fruit/?_r=0
Here is an article discussing why it is better for your body to get sugar from whole fruit rather than added refined.
I stopped reading at Ludwig....
I will see your blog, and raise you with this one...
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
also, just because you get fiber from fruit does not make the sugar in fruit better. If I eat added sugar and take a multivitamin does it become good???
Clearly you stopped reading the article, as here is a direct quote from it:
"You can’t just take an 8-ounce glass of cola and add a serving of Metamucil and create a health food,” Dr. Ludwig said. “Even though the fructose-to-fiber ratio might be the same as an apple, the biological effects would be much different.”
why not? it has fiber in it, same as fruit...
because your body breaks down the fruit, which combines the items together, differently than it does the items when they are separate. Here's an unrelated example for you - pour some oil in a glass. then pour some vinegar. Now pour the same amounts into a jar and emulsify them. Now return each example to its original state of separate oil and vinegar.
I'm not some whole foods person, and I eat plenty of refined sugar and carbs, but you have to be a little daft to not think that it is healthier to satisfy a sweet craving by eating a piece of whole fruit rather than an Oreo cookie.
congrats on writing the most *kitten* retarded analogy I've read in quite some time
also, broscience-1 -
APeacefulWarrior wrote: »I'm sensing the overall feeling is put up and shut up until the EMT's come to pick one of us up. (I know there are a couple people who have a better understanding of why I'm so upset - I realize that doesn't represent you)
So essentially, if you witnessed your spouse or significant other downing a bottle of poison, you'd just sit back ( or join them) and say "hey, he (or she) is an adult and if they want to finish off that poison, well then, that's their right."? That doesn't seem very loving, concerned or compassionate, but maybe that's where we are as a society... accepting and then sticking your head in the sand to ignore seems to be the expectation. Not sure I can be on board with that, but I think that's what he expects of me too.
I understand perfectly. It's not like he's single. What he does affects your life very heavily as well as his own, and that matters. A marriage involves commitment, responsibility, and sometimes compromise, it does not mean going "lalalala i will do whatever i want regardless of the consequences because i am over 21 years old." When a person gets married, they supposedly accept the responsibility that their behavior greatly affects their spouse and that therefore they may have to make some compromises so as not to make that person's life miserable. You are accepting YOUR spousal responsibility in supporting him and trying to help him stick to the plans his doctor(s) laid out for him. Now he needs to accept his. Does he think you deserve to have to watch him die, and basically make yourself over into a home health nurse, for something he could easily avoid?
Which is why they need to learn to communicate about the whole issue, not control each other or passively let each other do whatever, as so many have suggested. She can't control him by 'throwing everything out', or just let him blithely do whatever he wants. They need to sit down and discuss the situation rationally. Communication in any relationship is definitely the most important aspect.
Yes, this is a marriage issue primarily. I mean, they had that rational discussion, and he went out and did something directly contradicting what they agreed to. That's not passive aggressive, that's just plain aggressive. I think counseling is in order. If they figure that part out, helping each other eat to plan is easy.
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OP, my dad is 70, and is on medication for high blood pressure and high cholesterol that is not helping much. But he stubbornly refuses to change how he eats. Having a conversation about it is so frustrating. My mom is scared to lose him, so she scolds him when he puts too much food on his plate. She makes comments when he hits the cookies like it's his last meal. And his response is to become more stubborn. When she makes a comment about how much pasta he served himself, he will grab the cheese and shake a mountain of it on top. If she makes a "light" dinner, he will grumble and then eat a jar of peanuts to "make up for it". She tries to keep high calorie stuff out of the house, so he buys it on his way to work and keeps it there. Constantly getting on him is actually making it worse.
You know him best and how far you can push him. But my opinion is the best thing you can do is tell him once that you are scared to lose him and would like him to be on board with a plan for both of you, but if he won't agree to that you would at least ask him to respect your decision and you will respect his. And then view your journey as not just for you, but to set a good example for him. Let him see you with more energy, looking better in your clothes, enjoying your meals, smiling more, living your life more. Fear isn't always a great motivator, and it seems like that isn't working for him, so maybe the carrot will work better than the stick.
Best of luck to you. I am sure it is incredibly difficult to watch someone you love be self-destructive, but as so many others have said, you can't force an adult to eat a certain way unless you are willing to lock them in the basement. Hang in there!0 -
I believe that change has to come from within ourselves.
My boyfriend was doing this whole healthy lifestyle thing years ago. He tried to persuade me to join him and I half-heartedly agreed because I knew I was overweight and it was something I 'should' be doing. But I failed to keep up, and that was because it wasn't really coming from me... there was some (unintended) pressure from him... and although he had all the best intentions, I ended up fighting against it. I wasn't ready.
This time it's different... now I really want it... and now I'm doing something about it. But this time, it all came from me. I'm no longer embarrassed and I have stopped caring so much about what people think. I am ready to change.
I'm not sure it is possible for you to flip that switch in your husband's brain... I think he has to do it himself. All you can do is change your lifestyle, lead by example, let him see the positive change in you, and hope that one day he will want - really want - to do the same.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »I assume that your husband has no intention of eating all that at one time. There is a big difference between having it in the house and having it in your stomach.
I wish that were true at my house. But I know myself and the temptation would be too great. I practice my self discipline at the grocery store by not buying certain foods that I know I am currently unable to resist.
I can hear the alpha's now pointing and saying "Nuh-uh, your problem is that you are a spineless weakling with no self control." Well, yeah, I am when it comes to donuts. If that is a problem, too bad. Life is not fair. Take your donuts and gtfo. But leave one on the counter. I'm here to get healthy.
My health trumps my spouses gluttony.
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