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Is dairy good or bad?

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Replies

  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    You have to ask yourself why so many millions of people are lactose intolerant. Some people just simply adapt to digesting the sugar enzymes contained in milk out of survival. Others don't. I wonder about things like this... like if something is giving you heart burn would you just take a pill and continue to eat the item? Personally I feel like that's my body telling me to stop. So many people forgot to listen to their bodies thought it's just sad. A lot of people actually let a computer program and application developers tell them when they should eat instead of trying to figure out if their actually hungry or not :smile:

    that last statement is pretty ironic given that you have an open diary that you are using to track calories on a site that is designed by others...

    Really? out of the entire statement all you can come up with picking on the very last sentence? LOL!
    Okay, I'll play, yes I'm using a site built and maintained by developers. But that doesn't mean I have forgotten how to listen to my body. It was a general statement, not aimed at anyone in particular.
    Are we done now?

    I sure hope so. The anthropomorphizing and illogical appeals to emotion posing as legitimate arguments against the nutritional benefits of milk consumption are getting old.

    Ahhh....The plagiarism of another (illogial, unscientific) site combined with the distinct increase in screechiness and general hysteria in response to the debunking of a position took me back to my days of teaching college writing. Next, the crying. I would collect the tears in a vial and wear them on a chain around my neck.

    http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/04/03/over-75-of-earths-population-is-lactose-intolerant-for-a-reason-dairy-is-harmful/

    From that same site:
    Deodorant causes breast cancer.

    http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/10/23/how-to-prevent-breast-cancer-through-an-armpit-detox/

    If I have to give up deodorant to avoid breast cancer, I think I'll just deal with the cancer. Deodorant is, in my opinion, a foundation of civilization.

    I worked with a woman who had breast cancer. She was convinced it was caused by the titanium in her deodorant so she stopped using it. She started rubbing a large crystal on her armpits. She said it worked, same as deodorant... but I didn't think so. I don't know what ever happened to her. Just mentioned it because the comment sparked a memory.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    You have to ask yourself why so many millions of people are lactose intolerant. Some people just simply adapt to digesting the sugar enzymes contained in milk out of survival. Others don't. I wonder about things like this... like if something is giving you heart burn would you just take a pill and continue to eat the item? Personally I feel like that's my body telling me to stop. So many people forgot to listen to their bodies thought it's just sad. A lot of people actually let a computer program and application developers tell them when they should eat instead of trying to figure out if their actually hungry or not :smile:

    Rather than asking *myself* why millions of people are lactose intolerant, I asked science, specifically genetics. Interestingly, your musings here aren't entirely incorrect, but more along the line of the hazy explanation my 7 year old would provide when asked about the unique preponderance of lactose tolerance among British, Scandinavian, and other northern European populations ("simply adapt...out of survival"), how it helped them survive a harsh climate and genetically out-compete individuals with less-suitable genetic adaptations ("Others don't."), and the subsequent dispersal of the genome across at least seven millennia, while still leaving "so many millions [who are] lactose intolerant" (aka, two-thirds of the world population). You might find the following to be helpful:

    http://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-1.13471

    And yes, anyone who has dysentary-esque explosions from their posterior should probably listen to their body and stop drinking milk. It leaves more for those of us with Viking-Celt-Teutonic ancestry and a 90% tolerance rate.

    On the question of calves being separated immediately from their mothers, it is actually less stressful for both the cow and calf if the separation happens immediately. The cow rapidly forgets, and the calf doesn't know any different, as opposed to weaning after a month or two, where the stress and grief can last for days for both parties. I am an occasional visitor to both a conventional dairy farm (where the cows enjoy a particularly cushy life, including self-selecting milking, deep sand beds, automated manure clean-up, and fans, massage and misting machines), and a 100% grass-fed raw-milk operation where the cows greatly enjoy being on pasture for most of the year. It doesn't stop most from becoming hamburger at some point in their lives, but we all eventually become hamburger anyway, even the apex predators.

    Sorry about my "fuzzy" science. Please see my last post above for the actual science.

    Less stressful for the calf and the mother? Really? How about let's make it not stressful by not practicing it at all.

    Well, if we don't need the milk or the meat, Why would anyone even bother to feed and raise cows? Taken to the ultimate goal you are advocating for the gradual extinction of the entire species. Seems pretty harsh.

    Uhm, I don't know. I'm pretty sure cows and calfs just happened long before any human intervention.
    This reminds me of the hunters who say they have to kill the deer because we're over-run with them LOL!
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    zdyb23456 wrote: »
    I am slightly lactose intolerant, having milk causes serious gastrointestinal distress, but I am able to have an occasional yogurt, ice cream, and cheese on my pizza without crying.

    So a thumbs up for dairy from me. I could never give up pizza!

    I understand that many people consider the dairy cheese to be an integral part of pizza, but it's totally possible to do pizza without dairy. I have pizza several times a month. I wouldn't want to give it up either, I just do dairy-free.

    Daiya has a really good "cheese" pizza.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    In other news, cows who use antiperspirant get beaten less often but produce milk that glows in the dark.

    Well that stinks either way.
    Why would you bother putting antiperspirant on a cow, it doesn't have sweat glands on most of its skin, and the manure it produces is already going to cause enough smell.

    Because if she smelled better she might attract a mate so the nazi farmer wouldn't have to forcefully inseminate her.

    Why is the farmer a Nazi?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    This report combines the findings of over 400 scientific papers from reputable peer-reviewed journals such as the British Medical Journal and the Lancet. The research is clear – the consumption of cow’s milk and dairy products is linked to the development of teenage acne, allergies, arthritis, some cancers, colic, constipation, coronary heart disease, Crohn’s disease, diabetes, dementia, ear infection, food poisoning, gallstones, kidney disease, migraine, autoimmune conditions, including multiple sclerosis, overweight, obesity and osteoporosis

    http://www.whitelies.org.uk/sites/default/files/milkmyths/White Lies report 2014.pdf

    And let's not forget that a cow was the third shooter on the grassy knoll....
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    TR0berts wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    salembambi wrote: »
    bad for you

    & especially for the calf and mother cows

    Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.

    Totally wrong.
    Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.

    Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.

    The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.


    The literal dozens of local dairy farms with calves in the pasture alongside their mothers says, "you have no clue what you're talking about."

    Never said all dairy farms. Mainly just the ones making all the money.

    Why is making money off cows a bad thing?
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    In other news, cows who use antiperspirant get beaten less often but produce milk that glows in the dark.

    Well that stinks either way.
    Why would you bother putting antiperspirant on a cow, it doesn't have sweat glands on most of its skin, and the manure it produces is already going to cause enough smell.

    Because if she smelled better she might attract a mate so the nazi farmer wouldn't have to forcefully inseminate her.

    Why is the farmer a Nazi?

    You're the one who said he rapes the cow, strips her baby away and forces her into hard labor for the rest of her life.
  • Jruzer
    Jruzer Posts: 3,501 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    TR0berts wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    salembambi wrote: »
    bad for you

    & especially for the calf and mother cows

    Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.

    Totally wrong.
    Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.

    Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.

    The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.


    The literal dozens of local dairy farms with calves in the pasture alongside their mothers says, "you have no clue what you're talking about."

    Never said all dairy farms. Mainly just the ones making all the money.

    Why is making money off cows a bad thing?

    Didn't you know? Making money is bad. Except for when the right people, the people we like, do it.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    TR0berts wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    salembambi wrote: »
    bad for you

    & especially for the calf and mother cows

    Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.

    Totally wrong.
    Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.

    Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.

    The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.


    The literal dozens of local dairy farms with calves in the pasture alongside their mothers says, "you have no clue what you're talking about."

    Never said all dairy farms. Mainly just the ones making all the money.

    Why is making money off cows a bad thing?

    Because they are living beings, not things.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    You have to ask yourself why so many millions of people are lactose intolerant. Some people just simply adapt to digesting the sugar enzymes contained in milk out of survival. Others don't. I wonder about things like this... like if something is giving you heart burn would you just take a pill and continue to eat the item? Personally I feel like that's my body telling me to stop. So many people forgot to listen to their bodies thought it's just sad. A lot of people actually let a computer program and application developers tell them when they should eat instead of trying to figure out if their actually hungry or not :smile:

    Rather than asking *myself* why millions of people are lactose intolerant, I asked science, specifically genetics. Interestingly, your musings here aren't entirely incorrect, but more along the line of the hazy explanation my 7 year old would provide when asked about the unique preponderance of lactose tolerance among British, Scandinavian, and other northern European populations ("simply adapt...out of survival"), how it helped them survive a harsh climate and genetically out-compete individuals with less-suitable genetic adaptations ("Others don't."), and the subsequent dispersal of the genome across at least seven millennia, while still leaving "so many millions [who are] lactose intolerant" (aka, two-thirds of the world population). You might find the following to be helpful:

    http://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-1.13471

    And yes, anyone who has dysentary-esque explosions from their posterior should probably listen to their body and stop drinking milk. It leaves more for those of us with Viking-Celt-Teutonic ancestry and a 90% tolerance rate.

    On the question of calves being separated immediately from their mothers, it is actually less stressful for both the cow and calf if the separation happens immediately. The cow rapidly forgets, and the calf doesn't know any different, as opposed to weaning after a month or two, where the stress and grief can last for days for both parties. I am an occasional visitor to both a conventional dairy farm (where the cows enjoy a particularly cushy life, including self-selecting milking, deep sand beds, automated manure clean-up, and fans, massage and misting machines), and a 100% grass-fed raw-milk operation where the cows greatly enjoy being on pasture for most of the year. It doesn't stop most from becoming hamburger at some point in their lives, but we all eventually become hamburger anyway, even the apex predators.

    Sorry about my "fuzzy" science. Please see my last post above for the actual science.

    Less stressful for the calf and the mother? Really? How about let's make it not stressful by not practicing it at all.

    Well, if we don't need the milk or the meat, Why would anyone even bother to feed and raise cows? Taken to the ultimate goal you are advocating for the gradual extinction of the entire species. Seems pretty harsh.

    Uhm, I don't know. I'm pretty sure cows and calfs just happened long before any human intervention.
    This reminds me of the hunters who say they have to kill the deer because we're over-run with them LOL!

    I've never heard the argument that we need to shoot deer because we're overrun with them but I can tell you that the management of deer populations by/for hunting has exponentially improved the health and quality of said deer populations.
    Without herd management via hunting, deer populations would fluctuate greatly due to increased populations leading to the spread of fatal diseases like Blue Tongue which decimate densely populated deer populations. Then when populations finally recover, the die off again.
    Hunting effectively stops that cycle.

    Herd management is a man-made idea.
    Anyone who hunts has many valid arguments why it's justifiable.
    Anyone who doesn't believe in hunting can come up with a million reasons why it's wrong.
    To each their own. Personally I don't feel as if hunting is a fair sport, nor is it necessary by any stretch of the imagination. But that's just my opinion.
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    In other news, cows who use antiperspirant get beaten less often but produce milk that glows in the dark.

    Well that stinks either way.
    Why would you bother putting antiperspirant on a cow, it doesn't have sweat glands on most of its skin, and the manure it produces is already going to cause enough smell.

    Because if she smelled better she might attract a mate so the nazi farmer wouldn't have to forcefully inseminate her.

    Why is the farmer a Nazi?

    You're the one who said he rapes the cow, strips her baby away and forces her into hard labor for the rest of her life. [/quot
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    In other news, cows who use antiperspirant get beaten less often but produce milk that glows in the dark.

    Well that stinks either way.
    Why would you bother putting antiperspirant on a cow, it doesn't have sweat glands on most of its skin, and the manure it produces is already going to cause enough smell.

    Because if she smelled better she might attract a mate so the nazi farmer wouldn't have to forcefully inseminate her.

    Why is the farmer a Nazi?

    You're the one who said he rapes the cow, strips her baby away and forces her into hard labor for the rest of her life.

    Well those were not my exact words, you're putting words in my mouth (post). But yeah, pretty much... but I still don't know why the farmer would be a Nazi... that's a racist and stereotypical thing to say :smile:
  • BoxerBrawler
    BoxerBrawler Posts: 2,032 Member
    Jruzer wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    TR0berts wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    salembambi wrote: »
    bad for you

    & especially for the calf and mother cows

    Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.

    Totally wrong.
    Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.

    Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.

    The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.


    The literal dozens of local dairy farms with calves in the pasture alongside their mothers says, "you have no clue what you're talking about."

    Never said all dairy farms. Mainly just the ones making all the money.

    Why is making money off cows a bad thing?

    Didn't you know? Making money is bad. Except for when the right people, the people we like, do it.

    Flip flopping... like the Democrats :wink:
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    TR0berts wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    salembambi wrote: »
    bad for you

    & especially for the calf and mother cows

    Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.

    Totally wrong.
    Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.

    Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.

    The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.


    The literal dozens of local dairy farms with calves in the pasture alongside their mothers says, "you have no clue what you're talking about."

    Never said all dairy farms. Mainly just the ones making all the money.

    Why is making money off cows a bad thing?

    Because they are living beings, not things.

    that is ridiculous...

    so then no one should farm, own a butcher shop, or any other food processing plant? What do you propose all these people do for a living?
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    TR0berts wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    salembambi wrote: »
    bad for you

    & especially for the calf and mother cows

    Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.

    Totally wrong.
    Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.

    Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.

    The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.


    The literal dozens of local dairy farms with calves in the pasture alongside their mothers says, "you have no clue what you're talking about."

    Never said all dairy farms. Mainly just the ones making all the money.

    Why is making money off cows a bad thing?

    Because they are living beings, not things.

    So is you and me.

    So are vegetables.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    You have to ask yourself why so many millions of people are lactose intolerant. Some people just simply adapt to digesting the sugar enzymes contained in milk out of survival. Others don't. I wonder about things like this... like if something is giving you heart burn would you just take a pill and continue to eat the item? Personally I feel like that's my body telling me to stop. So many people forgot to listen to their bodies thought it's just sad. A lot of people actually let a computer program and application developers tell them when they should eat instead of trying to figure out if their actually hungry or not :smile:

    Rather than asking *myself* why millions of people are lactose intolerant, I asked science, specifically genetics. Interestingly, your musings here aren't entirely incorrect, but more along the line of the hazy explanation my 7 year old would provide when asked about the unique preponderance of lactose tolerance among British, Scandinavian, and other northern European populations ("simply adapt...out of survival"), how it helped them survive a harsh climate and genetically out-compete individuals with less-suitable genetic adaptations ("Others don't."), and the subsequent dispersal of the genome across at least seven millennia, while still leaving "so many millions [who are] lactose intolerant" (aka, two-thirds of the world population). You might find the following to be helpful:

    http://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-1.13471

    And yes, anyone who has dysentary-esque explosions from their posterior should probably listen to their body and stop drinking milk. It leaves more for those of us with Viking-Celt-Teutonic ancestry and a 90% tolerance rate.

    On the question of calves being separated immediately from their mothers, it is actually less stressful for both the cow and calf if the separation happens immediately. The cow rapidly forgets, and the calf doesn't know any different, as opposed to weaning after a month or two, where the stress and grief can last for days for both parties. I am an occasional visitor to both a conventional dairy farm (where the cows enjoy a particularly cushy life, including self-selecting milking, deep sand beds, automated manure clean-up, and fans, massage and misting machines), and a 100% grass-fed raw-milk operation where the cows greatly enjoy being on pasture for most of the year. It doesn't stop most from becoming hamburger at some point in their lives, but we all eventually become hamburger anyway, even the apex predators.

    Sorry about my "fuzzy" science. Please see my last post above for the actual science.

    Less stressful for the calf and the mother? Really? How about let's make it not stressful by not practicing it at all.

    Well, if we don't need the milk or the meat, Why would anyone even bother to feed and raise cows? Taken to the ultimate goal you are advocating for the gradual extinction of the entire species. Seems pretty harsh.

    Uhm, I don't know. I'm pretty sure cows and calfs just happened long before any human intervention.
    This reminds me of the hunters who say they have to kill the deer because we're over-run with them LOL!

    I've never heard the argument that we need to shoot deer because we're overrun with them but I can tell you that the management of deer populations by/for hunting has exponentially improved the health and quality of said deer populations.
    Without herd management via hunting, deer populations would fluctuate greatly due to increased populations leading to the spread of fatal diseases like Blue Tongue which decimate densely populated deer populations. Then when populations finally recover, the die off again.
    Hunting effectively stops that cycle.

    That seems unnatural. I bet they'd probably just develop a natural immunity to Blue Tongue if they had time. Developing immunity to those kind of things happens a lot faster in wild animals because their immune systems can focus on just the diseases and don't have to work to remove man-made compounds. I bet Blue Tongue even seemed overblown because they're probably survey the deer close to human populations that have their immune system exposed to chemicals.

    Mass instinction IS natural. Ever heard of the dinosaurs?
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    edited August 2016
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    TR0berts wrote: »
    rankinsect wrote: »
    salembambi wrote: »
    bad for you

    & especially for the calf and mother cows

    Those cows would be in a lot of pain if they were unmilked. Dairy cows are upset with you if you fail to milk them on schedule.

    Totally wrong.
    Cows are forcefully inseminated and the moment they give birth the baby calf is ripped away before it can even walk or open it's eyes. The babies are put into cages (some) for veal and the mother cows are milked, for their milk. The entire process is painful and unethical. But yeah... keep listening to the multi-billion dollar dairy industry when they tell you milk does a body good.

    Oh, and momma cows are also upset when their babies are taken away from them.

    The words Ethical farming and slaughter just don't make sense.


    The literal dozens of local dairy farms with calves in the pasture alongside their mothers says, "you have no clue what you're talking about."

    Never said all dairy farms. Mainly just the ones making all the money.

    Why is making money off cows a bad thing?

    Because they are living beings, not things.

    that is ridiculous...

    so then no one should farm, own a butcher shop, or any other food processing plant? What do you propose all these people do for a living?

    Hell, using her metric, I'd take it a step further. All business models that make a profit off of the labor of others are bad. So pretty much all of them.
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,639 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    You have to ask yourself why so many millions of people are lactose intolerant. Some people just simply adapt to digesting the sugar enzymes contained in milk out of survival. Others don't. I wonder about things like this... like if something is giving you heart burn would you just take a pill and continue to eat the item? Personally I feel like that's my body telling me to stop. So many people forgot to listen to their bodies thought it's just sad. A lot of people actually let a computer program and application developers tell them when they should eat instead of trying to figure out if their actually hungry or not :smile:

    Rather than asking *myself* why millions of people are lactose intolerant, I asked science, specifically genetics. Interestingly, your musings here aren't entirely incorrect, but more along the line of the hazy explanation my 7 year old would provide when asked about the unique preponderance of lactose tolerance among British, Scandinavian, and other northern European populations ("simply adapt...out of survival"), how it helped them survive a harsh climate and genetically out-compete individuals with less-suitable genetic adaptations ("Others don't."), and the subsequent dispersal of the genome across at least seven millennia, while still leaving "so many millions [who are] lactose intolerant" (aka, two-thirds of the world population). You might find the following to be helpful:

    http://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-1.13471

    And yes, anyone who has dysentary-esque explosions from their posterior should probably listen to their body and stop drinking milk. It leaves more for those of us with Viking-Celt-Teutonic ancestry and a 90% tolerance rate.

    On the question of calves being separated immediately from their mothers, it is actually less stressful for both the cow and calf if the separation happens immediately. The cow rapidly forgets, and the calf doesn't know any different, as opposed to weaning after a month or two, where the stress and grief can last for days for both parties. I am an occasional visitor to both a conventional dairy farm (where the cows enjoy a particularly cushy life, including self-selecting milking, deep sand beds, automated manure clean-up, and fans, massage and misting machines), and a 100% grass-fed raw-milk operation where the cows greatly enjoy being on pasture for most of the year. It doesn't stop most from becoming hamburger at some point in their lives, but we all eventually become hamburger anyway, even the apex predators.

    Sorry about my "fuzzy" science. Please see my last post above for the actual science.

    Less stressful for the calf and the mother? Really? How about let's make it not stressful by not practicing it at all.

    Well, if we don't need the milk or the meat, Why would anyone even bother to feed and raise cows? Taken to the ultimate goal you are advocating for the gradual extinction of the entire species. Seems pretty harsh.

    Uhm, I don't know. I'm pretty sure cows and calfs just happened long before any human intervention.
    This reminds me of the hunters who say they have to kill the deer because we're over-run with them LOL!

    I've never heard the argument that we need to shoot deer because we're overrun with them but I can tell you that the management of deer populations by/for hunting has exponentially improved the health and quality of said deer populations.
    Without herd management via hunting, deer populations would fluctuate greatly due to increased populations leading to the spread of fatal diseases like Blue Tongue which decimate densely populated deer populations. Then when populations finally recover, the die off again.
    Hunting effectively stops that cycle.

    That seems unnatural. I bet they'd probably just develop a natural immunity to Blue Tongue if they had time. Developing immunity to those kind of things happens a lot faster in wild animals because their immune systems can focus on just the diseases and don't have to work to remove man-made compounds. I bet Blue Tongue even seemed overblown because they're probably survey the deer close to human populations that have their immune system exposed to chemicals.

    Mass instinction IS natural. Ever heard of the dinosaurs?

    The dinosaurs went extinct because they were out hunted by humans. It wasn't natural.

    Don't judge. The cavemen had to hunt dinos because they were on the Cretaceous Diet. Quite a fad back then.

    gjorxla85oqv.jpg

    It's all true.

    q44k1tjfllhg.jpg