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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
Replies
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stanmann571 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »@stanmann571 ,
If love is unconditional, that means there is nothing special about your spouse that you love. If love is unconditional, anyone would do.
If love is unconditional, there is nothing your spouse could do that would cause you to no longer have romantic love for them. They could cheat on you, abuse you or even attempt to kill you, but because you define love as being unconditional, you must still love them.
It is facile to falsify the unconditional nature of romantic love. There are things people do all the time that destroy romantic love.
It is very much condition, even at the beginning when it is the easiest. One doesn’t have romantic love for everyone they meet. There were conditions necessary to initiate a romantic relationship. And there are conditions necessary to maintain it.
What is special is that you each mutually chose. That's more significant than any superficial externality.
And yes, there are behaviors that can break a relationship. But that doesn't change the nature of love. And certainly there are different manifestations of love. And again. Doing what is best for the one you love may include withdrawing yourself from their sphere of influence. That separation can be a manifestation of love. It may not be necessarily.
Finally, if the only basis of marriage is romantic(eros) love, then it will inevitably fail. Marriage must be based on the intersection of Eros, Philea and Agape at minimum.
But who is to say what is superficial with respects to the traits that attract one to their mate?
Isn't that a form of condition? If we judge the nature of the attraction and find it lacking, isn't that a form of conditional love? I.E. if they only love us the right way, I don't love them, or they don't love me if it's not done the right or non-superficial way?
It just seems a logical cop-out to suggest that love isn't conditional, or that if it dies, then someone was being superficial.
I heard that sort of crap when my ex-wife had an affair. Pastor asked what I did to force her to have an affair. I was gobsmacked. That's the same sort of nonsense, such as what did someone do to force their spouse to beat them, and the like.
Love is very much conditional. However, we fallible, sinful humans can handle it poorly.
I contend that one way of handling it poorly is to suggest it is unconditional.
It is certainly a poor, and frankly selfish standard to suggest that our spouse should accept us just the way we are. Especially if we are unwilling to do the same. And it appears there are many willing to do just that by calling the preferences of some, shallow, while suggesting their way of doing things is better.1 -
tbright1965 wrote: »@stanmann571 ,
If love is unconditional, that means there is nothing special about your spouse that you love. If love is unconditional, anyone would do.
If love is unconditional, there is nothing your spouse could do that would cause you to no longer have romantic love for them. They could cheat on you, abuse you or even attempt to kill you, but because you define love as being unconditional, you must still love them.
It is facile to falsify the unconditional nature of romantic love. There are things people do all the time that destroy romantic love.
It is very much condition, even at the beginning when it is the easiest. One doesn’t have romantic love for everyone they meet. There were conditions necessary to initiate a romantic relationship. And there are conditions necessary to maintain it.
This isn't in the context of romantic love, but when I was in my early 20s my father did something terrible to another family member. I never stopped loving him, but he was no longer part of my life after that (by my choice, out of concern for my own safety and respect for other members of my family).
I think we can make a distinction between loving someone and being willing to put up with whatever they'd do. I can't imagine not loving my husband, although I can imagine circumstances where I would no longer see him for my own safety or wellbeing (I mean, using the powers of imagination and everything I know about the range of human behavior, not based on how he acts now).
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tbright1965 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »@stanmann571 ,
If love is unconditional, that means there is nothing special about your spouse that you love. If love is unconditional, anyone would do.
If love is unconditional, there is nothing your spouse could do that would cause you to no longer have romantic love for them. They could cheat on you, abuse you or even attempt to kill you, but because you define love as being unconditional, you must still love them.
It is facile to falsify the unconditional nature of romantic love. There are things people do all the time that destroy romantic love.
It is very much condition, even at the beginning when it is the easiest. One doesn’t have romantic love for everyone they meet. There were conditions necessary to initiate a romantic relationship. And there are conditions necessary to maintain it.
What is special is that you each mutually chose. That's more significant than any superficial externality.
And yes, there are behaviors that can break a relationship. But that doesn't change the nature of love. And certainly there are different manifestations of love. And again. Doing what is best for the one you love may include withdrawing yourself from their sphere of influence. That separation can be a manifestation of love. It may not be necessarily.
Finally, if the only basis of marriage is romantic(eros) love, then it will inevitably fail. Marriage must be based on the intersection of Eros, Philea and Agape at minimum.
But who is to say what is superficial with respects to the traits that attract one to their mate?
Isn't that a form of condition? If we judge the nature of the attraction and find it lacking, isn't that a form of conditional love? I.E. if they only love us the right way, I don't love them, or they don't love me if it's not done the right or non-superficial way?
It just seems a logical cop-out to suggest that love isn't conditional, or that if it dies, then someone was being superficial.
I heard that sort of crap when my ex-wife had an affair. Pastor asked what I did to force her to have an affair. I was gobsmacked. That's the same sort of nonsense, such as what did someone do to force their spouse to beat them, and the like.
Love is very much conditional. However, we fallible, sinful humans can handle it poorly.
I contend that one way of handling it poorly is to suggest it is unconditional.
It is certainly a poor, and frankly selfish standard to suggest that our spouse should accept us just the way we are. Especially if we are unwilling to do the same. And it appears there are many willing to do just that by calling the preferences of some, shallow, while suggesting their way of doing things is better.
Clearly you've got some baggage and passion remaining on the subject. And I'm very sorry that you're still frustrated and angry.
But this raises an important and valuable point. We commonly think of the opposite of love as hate, but hate isn't the opposite of love so much as it is the complement. The opposite of love is indifference, I pass tens of thousands of people on the street weekly, I don't love them, I don't even know them. I'm utterly indifferent to them. OTOH, there are people who have passed through my life and caused me harm, deliberately or accidentally. Some of them I hate, some of them I still love. Some have been cut out completely, others have specially carved out places in my life designed to limit their future harm.1 -
I wouldn't call it baggage, just a crash course in romantic love some 15 years ago.
Lessons I've not forgotten to this day.
Indifference to the unfaithful ex-wife for sure. Strong feelings about what love is, based on research and experience.
YMMV.3 -
Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I think that ultimately it’s down to you to look how you want. If your happy and comfortable as you are then your other half should respect it. If you are becoming unhappy and unhealthy then I think it’s nice to have motivation and support from your other half to help you reach your end goal. I see to many people complain that they “aren’t attracted” to their partner anymore etc and I just think those people need to learn to accept that this is the person they are with, and shouldn’t push someone to change if it’s not what that person wants as it’s their body and their life
This is a wonderful philosophy for those who live in bubbles or perhaps being living a life of solitude on Mars. The rest of us live in a world where our actions impact those who live around us.
Eating irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. Spending irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. When we enter into a relationship it is no longer just about you, but the couple, so no....it is no longer just that person's body and life. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect your partner to simply accept any behavior.
Love the sarcasm but I will have to disagree with you on this one. What right do we have to change someone else into being someone that only pleases ourselves? What makes your ideology of how someone should look the correct way? Why can’t someone gain a bit of weight without having comments and being made to feel like crap by their other half? When we enter a relationship we learn to love that person based on who they are and not what they look like. If you are materialistic then yes you will bully your other half into losing weight ..
I disagree. I think we can love a combination of things about our mates, including physical attributes. For instance, I love my spouse's tendency toward physical fitness (not perfection, but the appearance of general good health), because not only does it look attractive to me, it is an outward reflection of our shared interests and activities.
Sure, people (for a variety of reasons) can gain "a bit of weight" at certain times in their lives, especially in times of stress, but there's a difference between 25 pounds and 100+ pounds. And there's a difference between making the effort to get back in shape and just letting yourself go. That's as much a personality thing as a physical one, IMO.
When you're in a relationship, it's not just all about you. It's not just "your body and your life." It's a partnership. If you want to do your own thing, that's cool too. But maybe you should do on your own. Because part of a successful partnership is pleasing the other person - and that goes BOTH ways. The right partner won't expect perfection or stress you out or try to change you into someone out of character, but they should appreciate and reciprocate the efforts you make to maintain your relationship.
No one should be "made to feel like crap" or shamed by their partner. That's abusive. But no one should be made to accept extreme changes in their partner's appearance, personality and behavior, either. That's not what they signed up for. (I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here. I'm talking about willful, conscious choices.) If my husband gains a hundred pounds there had better be a good medical reason beyond his control for it. The same standard holds for me. We're getting older and approaching 20 years together happily. Clearly, we aren't going to stay young and hot forever. But we both agree it would be optimal to be the best versions of ourselves at every age. It's what we want for ourselves AND for each other. And that's compatibility.
Not every couple values health and fitness the same. If you both agree on your priorities, then more power to you to just do whatever, be whatever. But if you have different priorities, you need to either compromise to stay together or maybe reconsider whether you are a good match. Because it's not cool for spouses to be going off in different directions, unless that's something you've agreed upon together.
I signed up for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. What the heck did you sign up for?
My sister is married to a quadriplegic who was an athlete when she married him. My uncle is married to a woman with dementia who does crazy stuff. Life happens. People get old, they get ugly, they go bald, they get fat, they have prostate issues and become impotent. You better bloody well expect that if you both live long enough the person you married will change beyond anything you ever dreamed of, because we all do.8 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I think that ultimately it’s down to you to look how you want. If your happy and comfortable as you are then your other half should respect it. If you are becoming unhappy and unhealthy then I think it’s nice to have motivation and support from your other half to help you reach your end goal. I see to many people complain that they “aren’t attracted” to their partner anymore etc and I just think those people need to learn to accept that this is the person they are with, and shouldn’t push someone to change if it’s not what that person wants as it’s their body and their life
This is a wonderful philosophy for those who live in bubbles or perhaps being living a life of solitude on Mars. The rest of us live in a world where our actions impact those who live around us.
Eating irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. Spending irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. When we enter into a relationship it is no longer just about you, but the couple, so no....it is no longer just that person's body and life. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect your partner to simply accept any behavior.
Love the sarcasm but I will have to disagree with you on this one. What right do we have to change someone else into being someone that only pleases ourselves? What makes your ideology of how someone should look the correct way? Why can’t someone gain a bit of weight without having comments and being made to feel like crap by their other half? When we enter a relationship we learn to love that person based on who they are and not what they look like. If you are materialistic then yes you will bully your other half into losing weight ..
I disagree. I think we can love a combination of things about our mates, including physical attributes. For instance, I love my spouse's tendency toward physical fitness (not perfection, but the appearance of general good health), because not only does it look attractive to me, it is an outward reflection of our shared interests and activities.
Sure, people (for a variety of reasons) can gain "a bit of weight" at certain times in their lives, especially in times of stress, but there's a difference between 25 pounds and 100+ pounds. And there's a difference between making the effort to get back in shape and just letting yourself go. That's as much a personality thing as a physical one, IMO.
When you're in a relationship, it's not just all about you. It's not just "your body and your life." It's a partnership. If you want to do your own thing, that's cool too. But maybe you should do on your own. Because part of a successful partnership is pleasing the other person - and that goes BOTH ways. The right partner won't expect perfection or stress you out or try to change you into someone out of character, but they should appreciate and reciprocate the efforts you make to maintain your relationship.
No one should be "made to feel like crap" or shamed by their partner. That's abusive. But no one should be made to accept extreme changes in their partner's appearance, personality and behavior, either. That's not what they signed up for. (I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here. I'm talking about willful, conscious choices.) If my husband gains a hundred pounds there had better be a good medical reason beyond his control for it. The same standard holds for me. We're getting older and approaching 20 years together happily. Clearly, we aren't going to stay young and hot forever. But we both agree it would be optimal to be the best versions of ourselves at every age. It's what we want for ourselves AND for each other. And that's compatibility.
Not every couple values health and fitness the same. If you both agree on your priorities, then more power to you to just do whatever, be whatever. But if you have different priorities, you need to either compromise to stay together or maybe reconsider whether you are a good match. Because it's not cool for spouses to be going off in different directions, unless that's something you've agreed upon together.
I signed up for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. What the heck did you sign up for?
My sister is married to a quadriplegic who was an athlete when she married him. My uncle is married to a woman with dementia who does crazy stuff. Life happens. People get old, they get ugly, they go bald, they get fat, they have prostate issues and become impotent. You better bloody well expect that if you both live long enough the person you married will change beyond anything you ever dreamed of, because we all do.
I get what you're saying, but the person you're responding to specifically wrote: "I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here" and that would include the examples you're making.4 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I think that ultimately it’s down to you to look how you want. If your happy and comfortable as you are then your other half should respect it. If you are becoming unhappy and unhealthy then I think it’s nice to have motivation and support from your other half to help you reach your end goal. I see to many people complain that they “aren’t attracted” to their partner anymore etc and I just think those people need to learn to accept that this is the person they are with, and shouldn’t push someone to change if it’s not what that person wants as it’s their body and their life
This is a wonderful philosophy for those who live in bubbles or perhaps being living a life of solitude on Mars. The rest of us live in a world where our actions impact those who live around us.
Eating irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. Spending irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. When we enter into a relationship it is no longer just about you, but the couple, so no....it is no longer just that person's body and life. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect your partner to simply accept any behavior.
Love the sarcasm but I will have to disagree with you on this one. What right do we have to change someone else into being someone that only pleases ourselves? What makes your ideology of how someone should look the correct way? Why can’t someone gain a bit of weight without having comments and being made to feel like crap by their other half? When we enter a relationship we learn to love that person based on who they are and not what they look like. If you are materialistic then yes you will bully your other half into losing weight ..
I disagree. I think we can love a combination of things about our mates, including physical attributes. For instance, I love my spouse's tendency toward physical fitness (not perfection, but the appearance of general good health), because not only does it look attractive to me, it is an outward reflection of our shared interests and activities.
Sure, people (for a variety of reasons) can gain "a bit of weight" at certain times in their lives, especially in times of stress, but there's a difference between 25 pounds and 100+ pounds. And there's a difference between making the effort to get back in shape and just letting yourself go. That's as much a personality thing as a physical one, IMO.
When you're in a relationship, it's not just all about you. It's not just "your body and your life." It's a partnership. If you want to do your own thing, that's cool too. But maybe you should do on your own. Because part of a successful partnership is pleasing the other person - and that goes BOTH ways. The right partner won't expect perfection or stress you out or try to change you into someone out of character, but they should appreciate and reciprocate the efforts you make to maintain your relationship.
No one should be "made to feel like crap" or shamed by their partner. That's abusive. But no one should be made to accept extreme changes in their partner's appearance, personality and behavior, either. That's not what they signed up for. (I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here. I'm talking about willful, conscious choices.) If my husband gains a hundred pounds there had better be a good medical reason beyond his control for it. The same standard holds for me. We're getting older and approaching 20 years together happily. Clearly, we aren't going to stay young and hot forever. But we both agree it would be optimal to be the best versions of ourselves at every age. It's what we want for ourselves AND for each other. And that's compatibility.
Not every couple values health and fitness the same. If you both agree on your priorities, then more power to you to just do whatever, be whatever. But if you have different priorities, you need to either compromise to stay together or maybe reconsider whether you are a good match. Because it's not cool for spouses to be going off in different directions, unless that's something you've agreed upon together.
I signed up for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. What the heck did you sign up for?
My sister is married to a quadriplegic who was an athlete when she married him. My uncle is married to a woman with dementia who does crazy stuff. Life happens. People get old, they get ugly, they go bald, they get fat, they have prostate issues and become impotent. You better bloody well expect that if you both live long enough the person you married will change beyond anything you ever dreamed of, because we all do.
There's a key difference in loving someone who has suffered an injury beyond their control. When I used to counsel troops under my command I often posed the question: "Your wife is the most beautiful woman in the world to you. How would you feel if she were in an accident and was disfigured, injured, etc." "In turn you are in a high risk profession. Is she prepared to be married to someone who has a very real chance of being permanently injured and disfigured?" Not to discourage, but to get them to think about worst case scenarios and ask each other those tough questions before committing. Get all expectations and standards known as much as possible to minimize conflict and put the marriage on the best possible foundation.
Weight management, being an output of behavior, is within control.5 -
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rheddmobile wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I think that ultimately it’s down to you to look how you want. If your happy and comfortable as you are then your other half should respect it. If you are becoming unhappy and unhealthy then I think it’s nice to have motivation and support from your other half to help you reach your end goal. I see to many people complain that they “aren’t attracted” to their partner anymore etc and I just think those people need to learn to accept that this is the person they are with, and shouldn’t push someone to change if it’s not what that person wants as it’s their body and their life
This is a wonderful philosophy for those who live in bubbles or perhaps being living a life of solitude on Mars. The rest of us live in a world where our actions impact those who live around us.
Eating irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. Spending irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. When we enter into a relationship it is no longer just about you, but the couple, so no....it is no longer just that person's body and life. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect your partner to simply accept any behavior.
Love the sarcasm but I will have to disagree with you on this one. What right do we have to change someone else into being someone that only pleases ourselves? What makes your ideology of how someone should look the correct way? Why can’t someone gain a bit of weight without having comments and being made to feel like crap by their other half? When we enter a relationship we learn to love that person based on who they are and not what they look like. If you are materialistic then yes you will bully your other half into losing weight ..
I disagree. I think we can love a combination of things about our mates, including physical attributes. For instance, I love my spouse's tendency toward physical fitness (not perfection, but the appearance of general good health), because not only does it look attractive to me, it is an outward reflection of our shared interests and activities.
Sure, people (for a variety of reasons) can gain "a bit of weight" at certain times in their lives, especially in times of stress, but there's a difference between 25 pounds and 100+ pounds. And there's a difference between making the effort to get back in shape and just letting yourself go. That's as much a personality thing as a physical one, IMO.
When you're in a relationship, it's not just all about you. It's not just "your body and your life." It's a partnership. If you want to do your own thing, that's cool too. But maybe you should do on your own. Because part of a successful partnership is pleasing the other person - and that goes BOTH ways. The right partner won't expect perfection or stress you out or try to change you into someone out of character, but they should appreciate and reciprocate the efforts you make to maintain your relationship.
No one should be "made to feel like crap" or shamed by their partner. That's abusive. But no one should be made to accept extreme changes in their partner's appearance, personality and behavior, either. That's not what they signed up for. (I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here. I'm talking about willful, conscious choices.) If my husband gains a hundred pounds there had better be a good medical reason beyond his control for it. The same standard holds for me. We're getting older and approaching 20 years together happily. Clearly, we aren't going to stay young and hot forever. But we both agree it would be optimal to be the best versions of ourselves at every age. It's what we want for ourselves AND for each other. And that's compatibility.
Not every couple values health and fitness the same. If you both agree on your priorities, then more power to you to just do whatever, be whatever. But if you have different priorities, you need to either compromise to stay together or maybe reconsider whether you are a good match. Because it's not cool for spouses to be going off in different directions, unless that's something you've agreed upon together.
I signed up for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. What the heck did you sign up for?
My sister is married to a quadriplegic who was an athlete when she married him. My uncle is married to a woman with dementia who does crazy stuff. Life happens. People get old, they get ugly, they go bald, they get fat, they have prostate issues and become impotent. You better bloody well expect that if you both live long enough the person you married will change beyond anything you ever dreamed of, because we all do.
I stand 100% by my original statement. I emphasized that I was NOT talking about medical issues beyond one's control and that I referring to willful, conscious choices - like people letting themselves go. You may have signed up for "anything goes," but that's not what I signed up for. We apparently have different standards, and I'm not ashamed of that.
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All very good points in here. It's great hearing everyone's thoughts on this subject matter.0
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When I married my husband I was fit and well, less than a year later shortly after the birth of our child I became seriously ill. For the most part now my conditions are under control or at least manageable however due to a multitude of medications, time spent having to rest and a lovely condition called exercise induced anaphylaxis my weight went up dramatically, to the tune of about 70lbs altogether over the 6 years I’ve been ill. Not once has my husband complained or made me feel like there is more that I could be doing in regards to my health or weight (at present I’ve lost approx 25 of those lbs).
My husbands weight has crept up slightly too over the years but nowhere close to the amount that I’ve gained. For me I feel I’d probably be resentful/angry at him if he were to gain weight massively solely because it would highlight to me someone who I’d see as throwing away an opportunity to get the most out of their body while I physically cannot do that anymore.3 -
When I married my husband I was fit and well, less than a year later shortly after the birth of our child I became seriously ill. For the most part now my conditions are under control or at least manageable however due to a multitude of medications, time spent having to rest and a lovely condition called exercise induced anaphylaxis my weight went up dramatically, to the tune of about 70lbs altogether over the 6 years I’ve been ill. Not once has my husband complained or made me feel like there is more that I could be doing in regards to my health or weight (at present I’ve lost approx 25 of those lbs).
My husbands weight has crept up slightly too over the years but nowhere close to the amount that I’ve gained. For me I feel I’d probably be resentful/angry at him if he were to gain weight massively solely because it would highlight to me someone who I’d see as throwing away an opportunity to get the most out of their body while I physically cannot do that anymore.
This speaks volumes!2 -
I think the above goes quite well with what I've been saying. One can have a legitimate and realistic need for an attractive spouse. I don't think anyone is suggesting we not offer grace to the spouse facing medical challenges that make it impossible to lose weight.
But for the spouse who has no medical road-blocks, but just wants to eat Ice Cream and watch Bravo Network all day instead of making better diet and exercise choices, their dissatisfied spouse has a legitimate complaint.3 -
Eh...
Touchy topic.
Story time:
A relative of mine brought her fiance over to my house, where he complained about the thirsty men in her DMs and about her weight gain. Then he bragged about the delicious foods he cooks for her and how happy they are. He is constantly feeding her fattening foods, then complaining the fattening foods are fattening her.
This also happened to me many years ago with a BF, who complained I was too thin, cooked to fatten me up, then complained at the results. So you can see I didn't have much patience with her fiancé.
He said they were going to get a gym membership so she could lose some weight. I thought, he's asking for it. She's a very beautiful woman already attracting enough men that it's making him uncomfortable. Now, he's looking to get her into a gym environment where even more attractive men (who are very thirsty and have amazing bodies) don't seem to mind a plump woman.
All I'm saying is, if you guys pressure your woman to be more sexy for YOU, she's gonna be more sexy for the man that likes her just as she is.
She will be comparing the positive attention she gets from those men to the negative attention she's getting from the SO. Also don't ask me how I know about that.
Now, I should be gleeful about this turn of events, because that relative always made fun of me for being fat in a very "mean girls" kind of way. I've lost a lot of weight, so the attention is on her for gaining weight, and the comments aren't just from the fiancé. But I know how painful it could be so I try to change the subject of the conversation to relieve the pressure.
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I believe they should. It is often easy to trick ourselves or justify the way we are, often difficult to criticize oneself. As long as they are not being condescending or insulting, I think it is okay to approach the subject in a concerning manner. Although my wife would take much more offense to it than I would.1
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IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Eh...
Touchy topic.
Story time:
A relative of mine brought her fiance over to my house, where he complained about the thirsty men in her DMs and about her weight gain. Then he bragged about the delicious foods he cooks for her and how happy they are. He is constantly feeding her fattening foods, then complaining the fattening foods are fattening her.
This also happened to me many years ago with a BF, who complained I was too thin, cooked to fatten me up, then complained at the results. So you can see I didn't have much patience with her fiancé.
He said they were going to get a gym membership so she could lose some weight. I thought, he's asking for it. She's a very beautiful woman already attracting enough men that it's making him uncomfortable. Now, he's looking to get her into a gym environment where even more attractive men (who are very thirsty and have amazing bodies) don't seem to mind a plump woman.
All I'm saying is, if you guys pressure your woman to be more sexy for YOU, she's gonna be more sexy for the man that likes her just as she is.
She will be comparing the positive attention she gets from those men to the negative attention she's getting from the SO. Also don't ask me how I know about that.
Now, I should be gleeful about this turn of events, because that relative always made fun of me for being fat in a very "mean girls" kind of way. I've lost a lot of weight, so the attention is on her for gaining weight, and the comments aren't just from the fiancé. But I know how painful it could be so I try to change the subject of the conversation to relieve the pressure.
@IHaveMyActTogether I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying the other woman should remain plump to ward off the other men that might be attracted to her, and that in turn might cause problems in the marriage?
I do agree that one shouldn't cook fattening foods and complain that their spouse or SO is gaining weight. Duh, that's a no brainer AND not fair!!!0 -
tbright1965 wrote: »I think the above goes quite well with what I've been saying. One can have a legitimate and realistic need for an attractive spouse. I don't think anyone is suggesting we not offer grace to the spouse facing medical challenges that make it impossible to lose weight.
But for the spouse who has no medical road-blocks, but just wants to eat Ice Cream and watch Bravo Network all day instead of making better diet and exercise choices, their dissatisfied spouse has a legitimate complaint.
@tbright1965 Hey, I like Bravo
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STLBADGIRL wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »I think the above goes quite well with what I've been saying. One can have a legitimate and realistic need for an attractive spouse. I don't think anyone is suggesting we not offer grace to the spouse facing medical challenges that make it impossible to lose weight.
But for the spouse who has no medical road-blocks, but just wants to eat Ice Cream and watch Bravo Network all day instead of making better diet and exercise choices, their dissatisfied spouse has a legitimate complaint.
@tbright1965 Hey, I like Bravo
But if you watch it all day when you could be spending time with your husband, he may have a valid complaint.
I'm a Bravo widow, can't stand Housewives of Anywhere, and sometimes get resentful when she would rather park in front of the TV doing that instead of doing something we BOTH like to do.
I have an on-call week where I'm very busy at work. That can be Bravo week if she likes. But if she's watching it when we both have time off, I'm more that a little irritated.
Just like I save my History or Science Channel binges for when she's away, not when she's here....3 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »IHaveMyActTogether wrote: »Eh...
Touchy topic.
Story time:
A relative of mine brought her fiance over to my house, where he complained about the thirsty men in her DMs and about her weight gain. Then he bragged about the delicious foods he cooks for her and how happy they are. He is constantly feeding her fattening foods, then complaining the fattening foods are fattening her.
This also happened to me many years ago with a BF, who complained I was too thin, cooked to fatten me up, then complained at the results. So you can see I didn't have much patience with her fiancé.
He said they were going to get a gym membership so she could lose some weight. I thought, he's asking for it. She's a very beautiful woman already attracting enough men that it's making him uncomfortable. Now, he's looking to get her into a gym environment where even more attractive men (who are very thirsty and have amazing bodies) don't seem to mind a plump woman.
All I'm saying is, if you guys pressure your woman to be more sexy for YOU, she's gonna be more sexy for the man that likes her just as she is.
She will be comparing the positive attention she gets from those men to the negative attention she's getting from the SO. Also don't ask me how I know about that.
Now, I should be gleeful about this turn of events, because that relative always made fun of me for being fat in a very "mean girls" kind of way. I've lost a lot of weight, so the attention is on her for gaining weight, and the comments aren't just from the fiancé. But I know how painful it could be so I try to change the subject of the conversation to relieve the pressure.
@IHaveMyActTogether I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying the other woman should remain plump to ward off the other men that might be attracted to her, and that in turn might cause problems in the marriage?
I do agree that one shouldn't cook fattening foods and complain that their spouse or SO is gaining weight. Duh, that's a no brainer AND not fair!!!
I thought it was pretty clear.
I heard another story about it. Some dude didn't like his wife's weight gain. He pressured her to join a gym. Then was on a message board like this one, complaining about her handsome trainer being too handsy with her and giving free training sessions.
0 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I think that ultimately it’s down to you to look how you want. If your happy and comfortable as you are then your other half should respect it. If you are becoming unhappy and unhealthy then I think it’s nice to have motivation and support from your other half to help you reach your end goal. I see to many people complain that they “aren’t attracted” to their partner anymore etc and I just think those people need to learn to accept that this is the person they are with, and shouldn’t push someone to change if it’s not what that person wants as it’s their body and their life
This is a wonderful philosophy for those who live in bubbles or perhaps being living a life of solitude on Mars. The rest of us live in a world where our actions impact those who live around us.
Eating irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. Spending irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. When we enter into a relationship it is no longer just about you, but the couple, so no....it is no longer just that person's body and life. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect your partner to simply accept any behavior.
Love the sarcasm but I will have to disagree with you on this one. What right do we have to change someone else into being someone that only pleases ourselves? What makes your ideology of how someone should look the correct way? Why can’t someone gain a bit of weight without having comments and being made to feel like crap by their other half? When we enter a relationship we learn to love that person based on who they are and not what they look like. If you are materialistic then yes you will bully your other half into losing weight ..
I disagree. I think we can love a combination of things about our mates, including physical attributes. For instance, I love my spouse's tendency toward physical fitness (not perfection, but the appearance of general good health), because not only does it look attractive to me, it is an outward reflection of our shared interests and activities.
Sure, people (for a variety of reasons) can gain "a bit of weight" at certain times in their lives, especially in times of stress, but there's a difference between 25 pounds and 100+ pounds. And there's a difference between making the effort to get back in shape and just letting yourself go. That's as much a personality thing as a physical one, IMO.
When you're in a relationship, it's not just all about you. It's not just "your body and your life." It's a partnership. If you want to do your own thing, that's cool too. But maybe you should do on your own. Because part of a successful partnership is pleasing the other person - and that goes BOTH ways. The right partner won't expect perfection or stress you out or try to change you into someone out of character, but they should appreciate and reciprocate the efforts you make to maintain your relationship.
No one should be "made to feel like crap" or shamed by their partner. That's abusive. But no one should be made to accept extreme changes in their partner's appearance, personality and behavior, either. That's not what they signed up for. (I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here. I'm talking about willful, conscious choices.) If my husband gains a hundred pounds there had better be a good medical reason beyond his control for it. The same standard holds for me. We're getting older and approaching 20 years together happily. Clearly, we aren't going to stay young and hot forever. But we both agree it would be optimal to be the best versions of ourselves at every age. It's what we want for ourselves AND for each other. And that's compatibility.
Not every couple values health and fitness the same. If you both agree on your priorities, then more power to you to just do whatever, be whatever. But if you have different priorities, you need to either compromise to stay together or maybe reconsider whether you are a good match. Because it's not cool for spouses to be going off in different directions, unless that's something you've agreed upon together.
I signed up for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. What the heck did you sign up for?
My sister is married to a quadriplegic who was an athlete when she married him. My uncle is married to a woman with dementia who does crazy stuff. Life happens. People get old, they get ugly, they go bald, they get fat, they have prostate issues and become impotent. You better bloody well expect that if you both live long enough the person you married will change beyond anything you ever dreamed of, because we all do.
I stand 100% by my original statement. I emphasized that I was NOT talking about medical issues beyond one's control and that I referring to willful, conscious choices - like people letting themselves go. You may have signed up for "anything goes," but that's not what I signed up for. We apparently have different standards, and I'm not ashamed of that.
Another layer to the bolded: depression or mental illness obstacles, that may not be as obvious as an injury or more strait forward illness diagnosis/treatment. It's pretty common for excessive weight gain and depression to go hand in hand. Many times the sufferer doesn't have success on the weight loss front until they address the depression as well.
Thoughts on that (anyone, not jenilla specifically, though I would be interested in your thoughts as well
) 1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I think that ultimately it’s down to you to look how you want. If your happy and comfortable as you are then your other half should respect it. If you are becoming unhappy and unhealthy then I think it’s nice to have motivation and support from your other half to help you reach your end goal. I see to many people complain that they “aren’t attracted” to their partner anymore etc and I just think those people need to learn to accept that this is the person they are with, and shouldn’t push someone to change if it’s not what that person wants as it’s their body and their life
This is a wonderful philosophy for those who live in bubbles or perhaps being living a life of solitude on Mars. The rest of us live in a world where our actions impact those who live around us.
Eating irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. Spending irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. When we enter into a relationship it is no longer just about you, but the couple, so no....it is no longer just that person's body and life. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect your partner to simply accept any behavior.
Love the sarcasm but I will have to disagree with you on this one. What right do we have to change someone else into being someone that only pleases ourselves? What makes your ideology of how someone should look the correct way? Why can’t someone gain a bit of weight without having comments and being made to feel like crap by their other half? When we enter a relationship we learn to love that person based on who they are and not what they look like. If you are materialistic then yes you will bully your other half into losing weight ..
I disagree. I think we can love a combination of things about our mates, including physical attributes. For instance, I love my spouse's tendency toward physical fitness (not perfection, but the appearance of general good health), because not only does it look attractive to me, it is an outward reflection of our shared interests and activities.
Sure, people (for a variety of reasons) can gain "a bit of weight" at certain times in their lives, especially in times of stress, but there's a difference between 25 pounds and 100+ pounds. And there's a difference between making the effort to get back in shape and just letting yourself go. That's as much a personality thing as a physical one, IMO.
When you're in a relationship, it's not just all about you. It's not just "your body and your life." It's a partnership. If you want to do your own thing, that's cool too. But maybe you should do on your own. Because part of a successful partnership is pleasing the other person - and that goes BOTH ways. The right partner won't expect perfection or stress you out or try to change you into someone out of character, but they should appreciate and reciprocate the efforts you make to maintain your relationship.
No one should be "made to feel like crap" or shamed by their partner. That's abusive. But no one should be made to accept extreme changes in their partner's appearance, personality and behavior, either. That's not what they signed up for. (I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here. I'm talking about willful, conscious choices.) If my husband gains a hundred pounds there had better be a good medical reason beyond his control for it. The same standard holds for me. We're getting older and approaching 20 years together happily. Clearly, we aren't going to stay young and hot forever. But we both agree it would be optimal to be the best versions of ourselves at every age. It's what we want for ourselves AND for each other. And that's compatibility.
Not every couple values health and fitness the same. If you both agree on your priorities, then more power to you to just do whatever, be whatever. But if you have different priorities, you need to either compromise to stay together or maybe reconsider whether you are a good match. Because it's not cool for spouses to be going off in different directions, unless that's something you've agreed upon together.
I signed up for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. What the heck did you sign up for?
My sister is married to a quadriplegic who was an athlete when she married him. My uncle is married to a woman with dementia who does crazy stuff. Life happens. People get old, they get ugly, they go bald, they get fat, they have prostate issues and become impotent. You better bloody well expect that if you both live long enough the person you married will change beyond anything you ever dreamed of, because we all do.
I get what you're saying, but the person you're responding to specifically wrote: "I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here" and that would include the examples you're making.
I'm just glad I'm not married to someone who is constantly judging whether or not my reasons for gaining weight were good enough to justify it or not.
Hoping some of the people on this thread are young, and that maturity will bring wisdom.4 -
4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I think that ultimately it’s down to you to look how you want. If your happy and comfortable as you are then your other half should respect it. If you are becoming unhappy and unhealthy then I think it’s nice to have motivation and support from your other half to help you reach your end goal. I see to many people complain that they “aren’t attracted” to their partner anymore etc and I just think those people need to learn to accept that this is the person they are with, and shouldn’t push someone to change if it’s not what that person wants as it’s their body and their life
This is a wonderful philosophy for those who live in bubbles or perhaps being living a life of solitude on Mars. The rest of us live in a world where our actions impact those who live around us.
Eating irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. Spending irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. When we enter into a relationship it is no longer just about you, but the couple, so no....it is no longer just that person's body and life. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect your partner to simply accept any behavior.
Love the sarcasm but I will have to disagree with you on this one. What right do we have to change someone else into being someone that only pleases ourselves? What makes your ideology of how someone should look the correct way? Why can’t someone gain a bit of weight without having comments and being made to feel like crap by their other half? When we enter a relationship we learn to love that person based on who they are and not what they look like. If you are materialistic then yes you will bully your other half into losing weight ..
I disagree. I think we can love a combination of things about our mates, including physical attributes. For instance, I love my spouse's tendency toward physical fitness (not perfection, but the appearance of general good health), because not only does it look attractive to me, it is an outward reflection of our shared interests and activities.
Sure, people (for a variety of reasons) can gain "a bit of weight" at certain times in their lives, especially in times of stress, but there's a difference between 25 pounds and 100+ pounds. And there's a difference between making the effort to get back in shape and just letting yourself go. That's as much a personality thing as a physical one, IMO.
When you're in a relationship, it's not just all about you. It's not just "your body and your life." It's a partnership. If you want to do your own thing, that's cool too. But maybe you should do on your own. Because part of a successful partnership is pleasing the other person - and that goes BOTH ways. The right partner won't expect perfection or stress you out or try to change you into someone out of character, but they should appreciate and reciprocate the efforts you make to maintain your relationship.
No one should be "made to feel like crap" or shamed by their partner. That's abusive. But no one should be made to accept extreme changes in their partner's appearance, personality and behavior, either. That's not what they signed up for. (I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here. I'm talking about willful, conscious choices.) If my husband gains a hundred pounds there had better be a good medical reason beyond his control for it. The same standard holds for me. We're getting older and approaching 20 years together happily. Clearly, we aren't going to stay young and hot forever. But we both agree it would be optimal to be the best versions of ourselves at every age. It's what we want for ourselves AND for each other. And that's compatibility.
Not every couple values health and fitness the same. If you both agree on your priorities, then more power to you to just do whatever, be whatever. But if you have different priorities, you need to either compromise to stay together or maybe reconsider whether you are a good match. Because it's not cool for spouses to be going off in different directions, unless that's something you've agreed upon together.
I signed up for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. What the heck did you sign up for?
My sister is married to a quadriplegic who was an athlete when she married him. My uncle is married to a woman with dementia who does crazy stuff. Life happens. People get old, they get ugly, they go bald, they get fat, they have prostate issues and become impotent. You better bloody well expect that if you both live long enough the person you married will change beyond anything you ever dreamed of, because we all do.
I stand 100% by my original statement. I emphasized that I was NOT talking about medical issues beyond one's control and that I referring to willful, conscious choices - like people letting themselves go. You may have signed up for "anything goes," but that's not what I signed up for. We apparently have different standards, and I'm not ashamed of that.
Another layer to the bolded: depression or mental illness obstacles, that may not be as obvious as an injury or more strait forward illness diagnosis/treatment. It's pretty common for excessive weight gain and depression to go hand in hand. Many times the sufferer doesn't have success on the weight loss front until they address the depression as well.
Thoughts on that (anyone, not jenilla specifically, though I would be interested in your thoughts as well)
I do consider mental illness to be a legitimate medical issue. I would be supportive of helping my partner through treatment. I have known people who have done well with treatment and those who have struggled long-term but still keep working on it. I understand that weight management can be difficult for people with mental health issues. I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about people who don't prioritize a healthy lifestyle. I'm just not interested in a partner who really doesn't share my values. And it's cool if people have other interests. They just aren't for me.1 -
rheddmobile wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »Mandylou19912014 wrote: »I think that ultimately it’s down to you to look how you want. If your happy and comfortable as you are then your other half should respect it. If you are becoming unhappy and unhealthy then I think it’s nice to have motivation and support from your other half to help you reach your end goal. I see to many people complain that they “aren’t attracted” to their partner anymore etc and I just think those people need to learn to accept that this is the person they are with, and shouldn’t push someone to change if it’s not what that person wants as it’s their body and their life
This is a wonderful philosophy for those who live in bubbles or perhaps being living a life of solitude on Mars. The rest of us live in a world where our actions impact those who live around us.
Eating irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. Spending irresponsibly has tremendous negative impact. When we enter into a relationship it is no longer just about you, but the couple, so no....it is no longer just that person's body and life. It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect your partner to simply accept any behavior.
Love the sarcasm but I will have to disagree with you on this one. What right do we have to change someone else into being someone that only pleases ourselves? What makes your ideology of how someone should look the correct way? Why can’t someone gain a bit of weight without having comments and being made to feel like crap by their other half? When we enter a relationship we learn to love that person based on who they are and not what they look like. If you are materialistic then yes you will bully your other half into losing weight ..
I disagree. I think we can love a combination of things about our mates, including physical attributes. For instance, I love my spouse's tendency toward physical fitness (not perfection, but the appearance of general good health), because not only does it look attractive to me, it is an outward reflection of our shared interests and activities.
Sure, people (for a variety of reasons) can gain "a bit of weight" at certain times in their lives, especially in times of stress, but there's a difference between 25 pounds and 100+ pounds. And there's a difference between making the effort to get back in shape and just letting yourself go. That's as much a personality thing as a physical one, IMO.
When you're in a relationship, it's not just all about you. It's not just "your body and your life." It's a partnership. If you want to do your own thing, that's cool too. But maybe you should do on your own. Because part of a successful partnership is pleasing the other person - and that goes BOTH ways. The right partner won't expect perfection or stress you out or try to change you into someone out of character, but they should appreciate and reciprocate the efforts you make to maintain your relationship.
No one should be "made to feel like crap" or shamed by their partner. That's abusive. But no one should be made to accept extreme changes in their partner's appearance, personality and behavior, either. That's not what they signed up for. (I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here. I'm talking about willful, conscious choices.) If my husband gains a hundred pounds there had better be a good medical reason beyond his control for it. The same standard holds for me. We're getting older and approaching 20 years together happily. Clearly, we aren't going to stay young and hot forever. But we both agree it would be optimal to be the best versions of ourselves at every age. It's what we want for ourselves AND for each other. And that's compatibility.
Not every couple values health and fitness the same. If you both agree on your priorities, then more power to you to just do whatever, be whatever. But if you have different priorities, you need to either compromise to stay together or maybe reconsider whether you are a good match. Because it's not cool for spouses to be going off in different directions, unless that's something you've agreed upon together.
I signed up for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. What the heck did you sign up for?
My sister is married to a quadriplegic who was an athlete when she married him. My uncle is married to a woman with dementia who does crazy stuff. Life happens. People get old, they get ugly, they go bald, they get fat, they have prostate issues and become impotent. You better bloody well expect that if you both live long enough the person you married will change beyond anything you ever dreamed of, because we all do.
I get what you're saying, but the person you're responding to specifically wrote: "I'm not talking about medical problems or issues beyond one's control here" and that would include the examples you're making.
I'm just glad I'm not married to someone who is constantly judging whether or not my reasons for gaining weight were good enough to justify it or not.
Hoping some of the people on this thread are young, and that maturity will bring wisdom.
That's cool. I've been with my husband for almost 20 years. We've been through a lot, including some life-threatening health issues, so we both know what's truly important in our marriage. I'm not young and immature. I'm wise about what I want in life. I want to enjoy life with someone who also wants to enjoy life. And being fit and healthy is enjoyable to me. I don't have time to fool around playing emotional games with my partner, so there's really no need for "constant judgement." A little bit of weight fluctuation from time to time throughout various points in your journey is totally normal. 50-100+ pounds is not normal. It should be cause for concern. It's past time to take action. I really like my spouse and I'd like to keep him around and active for as long as possible. The same goes for me. Obesity is life-limiting. If you can avoid it, you should. If it's beyond your control, well then, that's another story. But I'm all for doing whatever you can to make the best life for yourself. To each his own! 
3 -
rheddmobile wrote: »
I'm just glad I'm not married to someone who is constantly judging whether or not my reasons for gaining weight were good enough to justify it or not.
Hoping some of the people on this thread are young, and that maturity will bring wisdom.
I'm in my 6th decade of life and the wisdom I've attained is that we are always being judged, including being judged by those who took a vow to love and cherish us forever.
So the maturity and wisdom I seek to impart is we have to live in the world as it is, not as we judge it should be.
So suggesting that our spouse can't judge us, is ironically, a judgement.
So one cannot logically suggest the spouse who judges is inferior without they themselves passing some sort of judgment.
4 -
tbright1965 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
I'm just glad I'm not married to someone who is constantly judging whether or not my reasons for gaining weight were good enough to justify it or not.
Hoping some of the people on this thread are young, and that maturity will bring wisdom.
I'm in my 6th decade of life and the wisdom I've attained is that we are always being judged, including being judged by those who took a vow to love and cherish us forever.
So the maturity and wisdom I seek to impart is we have to live in the world as it is, not as we judge it should be.
So suggesting that our spouse can't judge us, is ironically, a judgement.
So one cannot logically suggest the spouse who judges is inferior without they themselves passing some sort of judgment.
Sometimes I think you confuse opinion or a truthful statement or response with judgement. An opinion can be very similar to judgement, but different.0 -
I can agree with this... And often times I think this is not considered.
Another layer to the bolded: depression or mental illness obstacles, that may not be as obvious as an injury or more strait forward illness diagnosis/treatment. It's pretty common for excessive weight gain and depression to go hand in hand. Many times the sufferer doesn't have success on the weight loss front until they address the depression as well.
Thoughts on that (anyone, not jenilla specifically, though I would be interested in your thoughts as well)
But even with mental health issues, I know of some that lack the patience or understanding to deal with a spouse that suffers with mental health issues.
0 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
I'm just glad I'm not married to someone who is constantly judging whether or not my reasons for gaining weight were good enough to justify it or not.
Hoping some of the people on this thread are young, and that maturity will bring wisdom.
I'm in my 6th decade of life and the wisdom I've attained is that we are always being judged, including being judged by those who took a vow to love and cherish us forever.
So the maturity and wisdom I seek to impart is we have to live in the world as it is, not as we judge it should be.
So suggesting that our spouse can't judge us, is ironically, a judgement.
So one cannot logically suggest the spouse who judges is inferior without they themselves passing some sort of judgment.
Sometimes I think you confuse opinion with judgement. Very similar, but different.
Opinions are judgments. If I believe X, then I believe X is preferable to Y. So if some believes in no-judgement, doesn't matter if you call it an opinion, belief, or whatever label you put on it, they have judged that to be a guiding principle in their life.
They have made a choice. Judgment, opinion, preference, discernment, really just different words that largely mean the same thing.
I'm not the one saying judgment is bad. I'm pointing out the logical disconnect by those who have the opinion (spelled judgment) that judgment is bad.
My position is logically consistent. Those whose opinion is that judgment is bad are the ones contradicting themselves.2 -
Opinions are one's belief whether it is supported by facts or not. Judgement comes into place when your opinion can be backed by fact.1
-
STLBADGIRL wrote: »Opinions are one's belief whether it is supported by facts or not. Judgement comes into place when your opinion can be backed by fact.
So people who are judgmental are backed up by fact? Is that what you are saying?1 -
tbright1965 wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Opinions are one's belief whether it is supported by facts or not. Judgement comes into place when your opinion can be backed by fact.
So people who are judgmental are backed up by fact? Is that what you are saying?
I'm saying it could be someone's opinion that they are being judged. They indeed might not be judged, it could be someone's else's opinion or it could be the truth that the injured party have deemed as judgement.1
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