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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
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SpotLighttt wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Definitely been some unsavoury comments been said re larger people. You will have to read back
I'm interested... but with 27 pages in this thread, can you help me narrow the search? Are we talking half way back? early on? 2 days ago?
Not trying to put you on the spot/make you call out names...
Spotlight has named some just now but and if you go back a few pages there was a quick summary
OK, since those are right here, let's start there.
I don't find fat people sexually attractive.
Is that fat shaming? I don't think it is. It's a preference... I'm not condemning who they are as a person, I'm just saying I'm less apt to want to have sex with them, everything else being equal.
If someone said they didn't find bald people attractive, I wouldn't be offended. It's not a judgement on who I am, it's a judgement on my hairline, which I'm well aware of, and they have every right to have that opinion.
The smell thing... I'm not even sure what to make of that.
I brought up fat shaming because that is a real thing and it makes it difficult for an obese person to want to go out in public, work out in a gym or do other physical activities. Most of the time an obese person is already unhappy with the way that they look and have to deal with that 24/7 from their own perspective and then have to hear it or get the stares, etc. adds another layer to it.
wtf, now we cant look around because it can offend a larger person?
c'mon now...stop minimizing stuff... "Look around" and "stare" is different. This is type of foolery I'm talking about.3 -
What's fascinating about this discussion to me are the differences in what people find sexually attractive. I've never reacted at all to someone's outward appearance, but have gone weak-kneed around a genius-level intellect.7
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I can be a bit shallow when dating....I've probably ruled out some good candidates b/c of their appearance or their phone conversation. But once we cross over to the love category, it's a new set of rules....I'm a little forgiving on some flaws if you are a good/decent man.3
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I so want to post a dead horse meme here but I've already been warned this week, so I'd better not...
How about a dog???
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I think the original question is a good one, and I think it's a shame when discussions derail...
So I'm going to try and rewind this a bit and chuck in some thoughts that might not have made it through the chatter yet.
This is in the context of an existing relationship, right? A relationship that you mutually get into because you both find each other physically attractive. If not, stop right there - I'm pretty clear in my head that you both have to actually find the other one attractive to have a successful relationship. It doesn't have to align with fashion magazine norms, but you have to fancy each other at the outset? Right? Let's assume so.
So what we're dealing with is actually change from some kind of attractive baseline, not absolutes.
Then yes, it's absolutely ok to acknowledge change BUT you have to be very clear in your head why the change is unacceptable to you, and consider what might have triggered it. Is it a health concern, is it something that it has caused to change about your relationship. I think you would always have to bring it up in that kind of context rather than just "wow, bae, you got FAT!".
So I was having thoughts like...
- If they've got bigger, is it because they're unhappy at work and comfort eating/drinking to cope? Or some other emotional stressor that's triggering eating? Are they sacrificing exercise in order to try and climb the career ladder? The triggers can definitely be discussed and addressed without making it all about the physical side. Did you love the early part of the relationship where you used to both go hiking or whatever every weekend, and can you say you'd love to rekindle that activity again? Can you ask your other half to support you by joining in a fitness goal that you have? (My mum had my dad support her in her training for a walking marathon by doing it all with her - he felt valued and appreciated as a supporter and training partner, AND it got his cholesterol under control!)
- If they've got crazy skinny, is that also an emotional response to something? Is it about having a job where there isn't the time or opportunity to get quality nutrition in? Or is it something else? Do you miss the fun, spontaneous person you first met now they spend all their evenings in the gym and all their time weighing food (me! I've relaxed a lot but have to learn to relax more!)? Do you understand what they are trying to achieve and why, and do you support it? (A good friend's wife just got horribly thin because she was targeting a sub-3 hour marathon last weekend. She cranked out a terrifyingly impressive 2h53 and is now eating her bodyweight in burgers on an almost daily basis. My friend doesn't like that she got so thin, but they discussed the training plan, her nutrition, and agreed that it was a short term goal that was important to her, so he supported her through it.)
I think it's good for your partner to recognize any change in your life, and the physical manifestation can make these things easier to see. Then you can work through what's behind it, and see if it's something that needs to be addressed or even wants to be addressed. It could even be a cry for attention, and failing to say something could even make it worse!
Depending on the reasons, it may be something you can work through, or it may not be.
I did break up with a boyfriend after I noticed he was getting fat, but not BECAUSE he was getting fat. It was about his approach to sport, activity in general and nutrition - all of these clashed so badly with my approaches (lots of sport! Do active things at the weekend! Try and eat healthy food and not drink 6 pints of beer 4 nights a week!) that it was never going to be a lasting relationship. I struggled with the fact that he didn't enjoy goal setting and was content to drift through life. All of these issues came to light when I noticed him getting fatter - that was just the trigger not the *reason* I broke up with him.
We should all look a bit deeper, but if the issues revealed do show you're not compatible, then it's better to call it than stay in a relationship that doesn't make either of you happy.
Just my (rather more than) 2c worth!11 -
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Sorry for the long post - but hold on - it is a good read. But I read this one day and it is one of the inspirations why I started this thread.
I didn't know what to do. We dated for a year and I had a connection with her that I've never had with anyone. I was truly, 100% head-over-heels emotionally and mentally in love and she loved me too. She told me that I was the one, that she had no doubts. And we've both been in the dating world for ten years or so, this isn't coming from two inexperienced kids.
But from the beginning I wasn't completely physically in love. She has an absolutely beautiful face but an overweight body -- maybe 30 pounds too, not obese. That's it -- just 30 pounds (on a small frame). It's hardly anything! In the beginning I just didn't think it was that important, because we connected so, so well. Because I loved her so much. I said to myself that the physical side doesn't matter so much and she is very pretty anyway.
But during the relationship it started to nag at me. I didn't have that urge to just jump her passionately like I've had in other relationships. I would touch her all the time, but in a comforting way, it didn't feel so sexual. She would always want sex more than me and when I would initiate it was more of me making a conscious decision that we should have sex rather than some physical need to be inside her. I did enjoy it though. When we'd be out in public sometimes my eye would wander towards others women and I'd imagine what sex with them would be like. That never really happened to me much in past relationships.
I encouraged us to be active. I managed to get her to go running with me sometimes but she always hated it. I told her I was going on a diet and asked if, when we ate together we could eat healthier. She said sure, but she has little willpower. She is always trying to stay on diets but never seems to manage. During the course of the relationship, despite any effect I could have, she didn't lose weight and even gained a little. I would cringe when later she'd go back for a second piece of cake or something. I hate myself so much for cringing like that and for thinking, "don't do it!" I don't want to think these things!
She's always had issues with her weight and her body. She was obese as a child and it's had a huge effect on her life. Yet somehow she's managed to build up her confidence and self-esteem from that point and now she's pretty happy with her body. I wanted nothing more (I have never wanted anything more) than just to talk to her about this and ask her if maybe she could show me that she really cares about staying in shape, that she will work at this problem from her side (since I can't seem to do anything to change it from mine mentally) and then maybe we can overcome it together. But I couldn't do it -- it would wreck her happiness forever and I knew it. I couldn't talk to her about this one thing that was killing us because it would kill her just to hear it! "I'm not physically attracted to you" - I know the effect that would have and she would not recover from it. She even told me once that a boyfriend asking her to lose weight/change her appearance would be the immediate kiss of death because we should love each other unconditionally and it shouldn't matter what we look like. She's so right. I just wish I were as good a person as she is.
And now I'm stuck. Weeks after the break-up I'm still completely in love with her and still completely on the fence about whether this was right or not. On the one hand, when you consider a lifetime of companionship, how can being a little overweight/physical attraction matter at all? It should be irrelevant! I don't want to care about it at all! But on the other, would this slowly eat away at us -- eventually making me resentful or crushing her because I never seem as passionate with her as other husbands/boyfriends are? What if she figured out my problem? It would destroy her.
I had truly hoped that during the course of that year, something would change. Either I would mentally overcome this block that I have or she would get in better shape and the block would be overcome that way. But it hasn't happened.
I gave her another reason for the breakup. I hated lying about it so much. And now I fear I'll never, ever find a connection like that again -- that in gambling for everything, I will find out that I've really lost everything. She is truly one of a kind. Love and life just pours out of her like a broken faucet. When she laughs, she really laughs. And when she cries, she really cries. And I'm the one crying now.
Please someone invent a way for us to re-wire our brains. I just want to be attracted to her. I'll pay anything.
Thanks for listening.
TL;DR: I love her, I love her, I love her, but I can't get my body to feel the same way and I hate it.
EDIT: By the way, I should mention that I ended it because she really wants that lifelong commitment and I thought it was unfair of me to keep seeing her indefinitely knowing I had this problem. Breaking up with her has been easily the hardest thing I've ever done.
EDIT2: For those who are saying that I need to tell her the real reason because she should have a chance to change, I get you. I really, really want to tell her.
But that's taking a tremendous risk with her happiness and self-esteem. I know her very well now. I'm telling you it would absolutely crush her. She has issues with depression as well, largely related to weight/body issues. I've seen the effect of someone else saying something a thousand times more subtle to her and it was brutal.
It's bad enough that I'm walking away when she really, truly loved me, I can't bring myself to destroy her life for the next 10+ years too.
I understand what you're saying. I want desperately to tell her because if there's any chance of saving us -- I want to take it. But this just cannot be done. If there is one thing I care more about than us, it's her.6 -
Oh wow. That breaks my heart. ^^1
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As Don Henley once said... sometimes love just ain't enough.6
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And for your entertainment and to show the backlash from his post - I will post some of the responses....Funny, they sound like we do in this thread...lmaooooooooooooo
salamanderwolf 71 points
sorry, you f()cked up. I know everyone will come on and tell you, "yay you did the right thing, being overweight is terrible, it shows lack of focus/commitment/care" etc etc etc. But you f()cked up.
look at what you wrote. what you wrote is a grown up relationship. grown up relationships don't have the wild, throw the person round the room, make her scream, grab the whipped cream kind of sex all the time. It has the comforting, silly, laughable, intimate kind of sex. it has the I've got a cold but still feel like getting it on kind of sex. It even has the I'm not really feeling it but I love you to the point I want you to be happy so I'll *kitten* you knowing if the situation was reversed you would do the same thing kind of sex.
you had a great woman you felt everything for to the point you write a long essay saying how much you love her and seriously threw it away for sex? seriously? go back and read your TL;DR. it reads like a soppy 13 year old's text book.
You may get someone you feel passionately attracted to instead but will they produce the same feelings that produced this post? I doubt it. so what you have to do is choose whats important to you. if sex is important enough to throw someone who makes you feel like this without even talking to her away then great, fill you boots on all the passionate squelchy sloppy sex you can get your hands on.
If you want someone who's gonna be there when your throwing up, keeping your hair clear of the mess, someone who is gonna be there and not judge you when you cry, just hold you and tell you its ok or someone who will laugh like its the funniest thing they've ever seen when something stupid happens during sex then fight for her, talk to her if she will still talk to you, let her know what happened. give her the choice and if she's as special as you think then she may surprise you.
either way, good luck and I really really wish you choose right for your life.
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BizSib 48 points
No one has an obligation to stay with someone they aren't attracted to.
salamanderwolf 9 points
yeah at no point did I say "You, You monster!!!! how dare you break up with her. My god your worse than Hitler!!!!" I merely pointed out there are more important things than sex in a long term grown up relationship.
sorry about the sarcasm though, having a crappy day.
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BizSib 24 points
More important things? Maybe. But sex is pretty f()cking important if you ask most people.
Sorry about your crappy day
I hope it gets better.
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evilbrent 0 points
Name one thing more important than love.
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nlakes 12 point
You cannot have long-term mutual love without sex in most relationships.
Resentment builds up without sex and nobody on earth has enough love to overcome that.0 -
SpotLighttt wrote: »is this a case of - the more people have going for them, the more preferences they hold?
Just a thought.
So your suggestion is that only someone without stuff going for them would stay with a spouse who gained a few lbs and became a 25 BMI?
Because no one in this thread has actually been talking about initial attraction.0 -
Then yes, it's absolutely ok to acknowledge change BUT you have to be very clear in your head why the change is unacceptable to you, and consider what might have triggered it. Is it a health concern, is it something that it has caused to change about your relationship. I think you would always have to bring it up in that kind of context rather than just "wow, bae, you got FAT!".
My libido doesn't really care what the reasons are, though. My eyes see someone that's fat and I have no desire at all to do anything naked with them. That is one of the reasons why the change is not acceptable.
[quote[Depending on the reasons, it may be something you can work through, or it may not be.[/quote]
It's something either that person changes or they don't, but I can't just make myself still be attracted to someone who got fat if their reason is good enough. It doesn't work that way. My options become cheat, abstinence, or end the relationship.We should all look a bit deeper, but if the issues revealed do show you're not compatible, then it's better to call it than stay in a relationship that doesn't make either of you happy.
My ability to actually get aroused isn't based on deeper issues though, so regardless of what they are the physical manifestation is still an issue, and one I would not be able to get past.
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STLBADGIRL wrote: »
Poor pupper! Actually, very overweight pets make me sad, because it means their humans aren't knowledgeable enough or don't care that they are obviously overfeeding or feeding them the wrong thing (says the lady who spends upwards of $100/month on grain-free food for her two doofy mutts
)
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STLBADGIRL wrote: »
Poor pupper! Actually, very overweight pets make me sad, because it means their humans aren't knowledgeable enough or don't care that they are obviously overfeeding or feeding them the wrong thing (says the lady who spends upwards of $100/month on grain-free food for her two doofy mutts )
Yeah, I feel the same way. There was this terrible episode of Cat from Hell (that Jackson Galaxy show) with this enormously obese cat that had been so poorly fed that it would eat donuts (and begged for them) and not normal cat food (or the types of food cats should eat -- basically meat). I was so angry with the family (of course the owners on those shows are usually the issue).
I suppose my fat squirrels fall somewhat in the same category as they are eating food from humans in some way, probably, but for some reason I do find fat squirrels cute. (I think slightly fat kitties can be cute too, but it's bad for their health -- my older cat, not the one in my avi, gives me a struggle with his weight as he overeats when given an opportunity and doesn't want to be active.)1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Then yes, it's absolutely ok to acknowledge change BUT you have to be very clear in your head why the change is unacceptable to you, and consider what might have triggered it. Is it a health concern, is it something that it has caused to change about your relationship. I think you would always have to bring it up in that kind of context rather than just "wow, bae, you got FAT!".
My libido doesn't really care what the reasons are, though. My eyes see someone that's fat and I have no desire at all to do anything naked with them. That is one of the reasons why the change is not acceptable.Depending on the reasons, it may be something you can work through, or it may not be.
It's something either that person changes or they don't, but I can't just make myself still be attracted to someone who got fat if their reason is good enough. It doesn't work that way. My options become cheat, abstinence, or end the relationship.We should all look a bit deeper, but if the issues revealed do show you're not compatible, then it's better to call it than stay in a relationship that doesn't make either of you happy.
My ability to actually get aroused isn't based on deeper issues though, so regardless of what they are the physical manifestation is still an issue, and one I would not be able to get past.
We get it by now, man. You're violently repulsed by fat people. No need to keep reiterating it. No worries; no ones going to force you to sleep with a chubby
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lemurcat12 wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »
Poor pupper! Actually, very overweight pets make me sad, because it means their humans aren't knowledgeable enough or don't care that they are obviously overfeeding or feeding them the wrong thing (says the lady who spends upwards of $100/month on grain-free food for her two doofy mutts )
Yeah, I feel the same way. There was this terrible episode of Cat from Hell (that Jackson Galaxy show) with this enormously obese cat that had been so poorly fed that it would eat donuts (and begged for them) and not normal cat food (or the types of food cats should eat -- basically meat). I was so angry with the family (of course the owners on those shows are usually the issue).
I suppose my fat squirrels fall somewhat in the same category as they are eating food from humans in some way, probably, but for some reason I do find fat squirrels cute. (I think slightly fat kitties can be cute too, but it's bad for their health -- my older cat, not the one in my avi, gives me a struggle with his weight as he overeats when given an opportunity and doesn't want to be active.)
Fat squirrels are definitely cute! I figure it's on them as non-domesticated animals to practice proper portion control I fear I am derailing this fascinating thread with my discriminatory views of fat pets now, though. No fat pets for me! 4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »is this a case of - the more people have going for them, the more preferences they hold?
Just a thought.
So your suggestion is that only someone without stuff going for them would stay with a spouse who gained a few lbs and became a 25 BMI?
Because no one in this thread has actually been talking about initial attraction.
The higher your market value the more you can be picky yourself. It's how the whole thing works.2 -
I think it all comes down to reasonable expectations. If I marry a woman that is in good shape, I think it is reasonable to expect she will continue to be in good shape, taking into consideration the realities of life, including childbirth, age, medical conditions, etc. I don't think it is acceptable to lapse into obesity just because one feels secure or comfortable in a relationship. The same rules apply to me, so all is fair...8
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »SpotLighttt wrote: »is this a case of - the more people have going for them, the more preferences they hold?
Just a thought.
So your suggestion is that only someone without stuff going for them would stay with a spouse who gained a few lbs and became a 25 BMI?
Because no one in this thread has actually been talking about initial attraction.
The higher your market value the more you can be picky yourself. It's how the whole thing works.
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jessiferrrb wrote: »I love it when it all gets down to athlete pics to "prove" that BMI does not work for us common people. The sad truth is that for most of us, at a BMI of 25 or even 24 or for many 23, we are not looking that good any more. The fact that there are lots of people in whatever country one might be who are very overweight, it really does not change anything.
Reese Witherspoon is supposedly at a 25 bmi, Tom Cruise is at 26. they look pretty good to me, and would still look good with a few more pounds. ashley graham comes in at 29 and i would not kick her out of bed; same with denise bidot. these arbitrary lines in the sand are sad.
personally, i tend more towards sapio-sexual considerations than i am concerned whether my partner is carrying extra weight. if it's a health concern, if it inhibits sex drive (not performance, but obesity can impact that too) then i would address those issues with him, but the aesthetics aren't a driving force for me. **unless we're talking tinder.
And this is why there are no rules in preferences and there is also maybe some cultural influence about what is normal or going a step further, desirable. You finding Ashley Graham or Denise Bidot (had to look them up I admit) looking good is awesome for you and for anyone who feels this way. I cannot talk about sexual attraction as I am not bisexual, but I would have felt pretty awful for myself if my body looked like this. Different people have different ideas about what is beautiful and sexy. And this is ok, it is not a crime or a moral issue.2
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