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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?

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Replies

  • tattygun
    tattygun Posts: 447 Member
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    And you're a trainer genuinely implying that the mind muscle connection is not very important for every movement? Every movement is a "natural movement". The primal movements being push, pull, squat, bend, lunge, twist and yes gait. Just because it's a "natural movement" doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be using the correct muscles to be done most efficiently to prevent injuries.

    You learn using the correct muscles for a movement by doing the movement, not by using each of the involved muscles on its own.


    Thanks bud, I wasn't the one that said that.

    You're the one saying isolation exercises are important for the mind/muscle connection.

    No, I'm the one saying that.

    In fact what I originally said is I don't agree with the notion that compounds are the be all and end all and that I think isolation work is important.

    From my own experience I spent my formative years buying into the compounds only meme. I've spent the last 2 years trying to bring my arms up as they'd become disproportionately small to my torso. Had I incorporated some isolation work in from the beginning I would of had a much more balanced physique. The amount of people I see that REALLY need to do some isolation work on rear delts...well I'd say most people in the gym do.

    Isolation work is not the devil, it's necessary, your shoulders will thank you and that's one of my seemingly unpopular opinions!
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    tattygun wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    And you're a trainer genuinely implying that the mind muscle connection is not very important for every movement? Every movement is a "natural movement". The primal movements being push, pull, squat, bend, lunge, twist and yes gait. Just because it's a "natural movement" doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be using the correct muscles to be done most efficiently to prevent injuries.

    You learn using the correct muscles for a movement by doing the movement, not by using each of the involved muscles on its own.


    Thanks bud, I wasn't the one that said that.

    You're the one saying isolation exercises are important for the mind/muscle connection.

    No, I'm the one saying that.

    In fact what I originally said is I don't agree with the notion that compounds are the be all and end all and that I think isolation work is important.

    From my own experience I spent my formative years buying into the compounds only meme. I've spent the last 2 years trying to bring my arms up as they'd become disproportionately small to my torso. Had I incorporated some isolation work in from the beginning I would of had a much more balanced physique. The amount of people I see that REALLY need to do some isolation work on rear delts...well I'd say most people in the gym do.

    Isolation work is not the devil, it's necessary, your shoulders will thank you and that's one of my seemingly unpopular opinions!

    again I don't think it's unpopular as you think. Isolation work has it's place...we all use it differently.

    Most people I know do it to fix an imbalance which is what you did...

    but I see a lot of people doing a lot of isolation work with little compound lifting which to me makes little sense...

    again probably not unpopular just people who don't like isolation lifts are as adament as those who do.
  • jseams1234
    jseams1234 Posts: 1,219 Member
    tattygun wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    And you're a trainer genuinely implying that the mind muscle connection is not very important for every movement? Every movement is a "natural movement". The primal movements being push, pull, squat, bend, lunge, twist and yes gait. Just because it's a "natural movement" doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be using the correct muscles to be done most efficiently to prevent injuries.

    You learn using the correct muscles for a movement by doing the movement, not by using each of the involved muscles on its own.


    Thanks bud, I wasn't the one that said that.

    You're the one saying isolation exercises are important for the mind/muscle connection.

    No, I'm the one saying that.

    In fact what I originally said is I don't agree with the notion that compounds are the be all and end all and that I think isolation work is important.

    From my own experience I spent my formative years buying into the compounds only meme. I've spent the last 2 years trying to bring my arms up as they'd become disproportionately small to my torso. Had I incorporated some isolation work in from the beginning I would of had a much more balanced physique. The amount of people I see that REALLY need to do some isolation work on rear delts...well I'd say most people in the gym do.

    Isolation work is not the devil, it's necessary, your shoulders will thank you and that's one of my seemingly unpopular opinions!

    Yup. I'm one of those delt guys. lol. Looks good from the front but side view is strange. I've started adding isolation work - especially delts.
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    And you're a trainer genuinely implying that the mind muscle connection is not very important for every movement? Every movement is a "natural movement". The primal movements being push, pull, squat, bend, lunge, twist and yes gait. Just because it's a "natural movement" doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be using the correct muscles to be done most efficiently to prevent injuries.

    You learn using the correct muscles for a movement by doing the movement, not by using each of the involved muscles on its own.


    Thanks bud, I wasn't the one that said that.

    You're the one saying isolation exercises are important for the mind/muscle connection.


    My post did not contain "isolation exercises" anywhere.
  • tattygun
    tattygun Posts: 447 Member
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    And you're a trainer genuinely implying that the mind muscle connection is not very important for every movement? Every movement is a "natural movement". The primal movements being push, pull, squat, bend, lunge, twist and yes gait. Just because it's a "natural movement" doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be using the correct muscles to be done most efficiently to prevent injuries.

    You learn using the correct muscles for a movement by doing the movement, not by using each of the involved muscles on its own.


    Thanks bud, I wasn't the one that said that.

    You're the one saying isolation exercises are important for the mind/muscle connection.

    No, I'm the one saying that.

    In fact what I originally said is I don't agree with the notion that compounds are the be all and end all and that I think isolation work is important.

    From my own experience I spent my formative years buying into the compounds only meme. I've spent the last 2 years trying to bring my arms up as they'd become disproportionately small to my torso. Had I incorporated some isolation work in from the beginning I would of had a much more balanced physique. The amount of people I see that REALLY need to do some isolation work on rear delts...well I'd say most people in the gym do.

    Isolation work is not the devil, it's necessary, your shoulders will thank you and that's one of my seemingly unpopular opinions!

    again I don't think it's unpopular as you think. Isolation work has it's place...we all use it differently.

    Most people I know do it to fix an imbalance which is what you did...

    but I see a lot of people doing a lot of isolation work with little compound lifting which to me makes little sense...

    again probably not unpopular just people who don't like isolation lifts are as adament as those who do.

    Maybe it's not so unpopular and it's just the fact I have too many Crossfitters on my facebook!

  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    tattygun wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    And you're a trainer genuinely implying that the mind muscle connection is not very important for every movement? Every movement is a "natural movement". The primal movements being push, pull, squat, bend, lunge, twist and yes gait. Just because it's a "natural movement" doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be using the correct muscles to be done most efficiently to prevent injuries.

    You learn using the correct muscles for a movement by doing the movement, not by using each of the involved muscles on its own.


    Thanks bud, I wasn't the one that said that.

    You're the one saying isolation exercises are important for the mind/muscle connection.

    No, I'm the one saying that.

    In fact what I originally said is I don't agree with the notion that compounds are the be all and end all and that I think isolation work is important.

    From my own experience I spent my formative years buying into the compounds only meme. I've spent the last 2 years trying to bring my arms up as they'd become disproportionately small to my torso. Had I incorporated some isolation work in from the beginning I would of had a much more balanced physique. The amount of people I see that REALLY need to do some isolation work on rear delts...well I'd say most people in the gym do.

    Isolation work is not the devil, it's necessary, your shoulders will thank you and that's one of my seemingly unpopular opinions!


    Hahah I am in the same boat! Arms will not grow proportionaly, still working on that contraction, back and chest, no problem, bi's and sometimes tri's, majorrrrr struggle.

    Might be from being and athlete and being more concerned with power and strength, never learned how to contract specific muscles until trying now when it's disproportionate. No clue though, still don't just think it's genetics though, I just feel like there's some mental piece I am missing.
  • tattygun
    tattygun Posts: 447 Member
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    And you're a trainer genuinely implying that the mind muscle connection is not very important for every movement? Every movement is a "natural movement". The primal movements being push, pull, squat, bend, lunge, twist and yes gait. Just because it's a "natural movement" doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be using the correct muscles to be done most efficiently to prevent injuries.

    You learn using the correct muscles for a movement by doing the movement, not by using each of the involved muscles on its own.


    Thanks bud, I wasn't the one that said that.

    You're the one saying isolation exercises are important for the mind/muscle connection.

    No, I'm the one saying that.

    In fact what I originally said is I don't agree with the notion that compounds are the be all and end all and that I think isolation work is important.

    From my own experience I spent my formative years buying into the compounds only meme. I've spent the last 2 years trying to bring my arms up as they'd become disproportionately small to my torso. Had I incorporated some isolation work in from the beginning I would of had a much more balanced physique. The amount of people I see that REALLY need to do some isolation work on rear delts...well I'd say most people in the gym do.

    Isolation work is not the devil, it's necessary, your shoulders will thank you and that's one of my seemingly unpopular opinions!


    Hahah I am in the same boat! Arms will not grow proportionaly, still working on that contraction, back and chest, no problem, bi's and sometimes tri's, majorrrrr struggle.

    Might be from being and athlete and being more concerned with power and strength, never learned how to contract specific muscles until trying now when it's disproportionate. No clue though, still don't just think it's genetics though, I just feel like there's some mental piece I am missing.

    Google DRX arm routine, do it for 3 weeks and report back.
  • sillyrichie
    sillyrichie Posts: 34 Member
    Blaming your metabolism is such a cop-out.

    YES! I so agree with this.

  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    And you're a trainer genuinely implying that the mind muscle connection is not very important for every movement? Every movement is a "natural movement". The primal movements being push, pull, squat, bend, lunge, twist and yes gait. Just because it's a "natural movement" doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be using the correct muscles to be done most efficiently to prevent injuries.

    You learn using the correct muscles for a movement by doing the movement, not by using each of the involved muscles on its own.


    Thanks bud, I wasn't the one that said that.

    You're the one saying isolation exercises are important for the mind/muscle connection.


    My post did not contain "isolation exercises" anywhere.

    You're right that was the other guy.
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    SezxyStef wrote: »
    tattygun wrote: »
    The whole notion of 'functional strength' and that compound lifts are the be all and end all.

    Newb's concentrating on only compound lifts and not doing enough to build whats most important...mind muscle connection.

    Dedicating whole workouts to just abs....fkn LOL.

    The notion that a calorie is a calorie, no if one causes me to hold more water then they're not equal when it comes to my goals...which leads me to another...

    Water has just as much as a detrimental effect on the appearance of a physique than fat.

    The stigma attached to PED's...yet it's socially acceptable to take something that literally disables you (alcohol). People wasting time chasing ever dwindling results when they could transform their life, yet they're too scared of the social stigma to do what should be seen as normal.

    People being too reliant on what hey read rather than walking the walk. I will nearly always put more value on the advice of someone who's actually where I want to be, than some skinny fat MFPer clutching a science paper.



    I don't do "accessory" lifts...waste of time IMO...what's the point they don't help me achieve my goals...notice how that can be turned around using your logic

    Calories are a unit of measure and if a carb impacts "YOUR" goal that's one thing but for the majority of people it is a fact...and a calorie is just that...a calorie...but not sure that this is "unpopular" just debated a lot...

    PED's are a personal choice IMO...if you want to pump your body full of those things go ahead...but they are just as dangerous when abused as any other drug...including alcohol...again not that unpopular just those who want to use them vs those who don't are sure they are right.

    As for your last statement...are you saying that you wouldn't heed the advice of someone like oh..Arnold? he's not where you want to be...but probably was at some point...

    regardless of if someone now doesn't "look" how you think they should be doesn't mean they don't have good advice...

    I mean I know people who look good...and I wouldn't listen to their drivel ever...

    If creating a stronger mind muscle connection isn't part of your goals when you lift then I don't really know what to say to you, regardless, isolation exercises will achieve just that. Note how I don't say omit compounds.
    But not all people lift to make the mind/muscle connection a part of the goal. Some do it just to be active and keep basic strength up. Not all people are looking to increase mass nor have prominent body parts.
    Why do you mention a carb? Could be anything that causes the water retention. My point is 500 calories of McDonalds will have a more detrimental effect on the appearance of my physique than 500 calories of chicken and rice, regardless if the macro's are the same. IDC that they will both have the same effect on fat levels, I care about water retention too.
    But that doesn't change the fact that a calorie is a calorie. A liter of gas is different than a liter of water, but they are both still a liter. WHAT they do for someone is entirely different.
    The point I'm making about PED's has gone completely over your head. Yes I realise they can be just as dangerous as almost any drug, it's the fact there is a huge social stigma attached to taking them that I take issue with.
    I won't disagree here. The REAL issue with them is when KIDS are illegally taking them just to enhance their sports performance with no actual medical advice.
    It isn't about someone looking how 'I think' they should look. People can look however they want but if you're going to be doling out lifting advice AND telling other people they're wrong then yes, look the part. I'm interested in someone who's put the practical work in and actually lived it rather than geeked out on the theory but not actually gone and put the work in. This forum is a meme at this point for that one. Also again...note how I said I nearly always, not always because of course there are exceptions to the rule but I didn't think I need to put that so clearly...
    Well there are lots and lots of coaches out there who may not have played at a high level in a sport, but intricately know how to coach it. Look at coaching specialists like Hany Rambod. NEVER competed on the professional stage and I would hardly thought he was nothing more than a bro gym lifter based on his physique. You can actually figure out if someone really knows what they are talking about or not on here though.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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    I'm saying though...if you lift, if you do yoga, if you run, basically if you do anything physical with the need to control your body then mind muscle connection SHOULD be an aim. Isolation work will help you achieve that and I feel like on this forum it's seen as the devil and a waste of time...which is entirely wrong.
    You don't need much mind/muscle connection to run. It's a natural movement that needs absolutely minimal training if any at all. You're thinking in terms of perfecting how people workout and many people just don't go that deep into it. Lots of great athletes do well with just reaction and pure talent and don't lift weights or anything else.
    Yes I take your point about Hany, hence why I said in nearly all cases plus I'm not talking about coaches because let's face it Hany HAS walked the walk. His yardstick is champions he's produced, not his own physique. It's the general forum member with limited experience, telling a seasoned gym goer they're wrong using parroted information, that's what i have a problem with.
    But how do you know that general forum member is wrong? There's a biochemical engineers on the forum who denounce how supplements actually work. They may not train like an athlete, but they damn sure know how chemistry actually works. And the reality is if they know how it works in the body, why wouldn't you believe them just because they haven't walked the walk?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    You mention high end coaches, biochemical engineers...not really the point I'm making. The untrained newb, read a few articles, telling someone with a great physique that the way they got there was wrong. It's that lack of humility, the close mindedness. Sure they might not of got there 'optimally' but they're there and they've shown what surely we can both agree is the most important thing in this game...consistency and discipline and that should be respected, whether you choose to take their advice or not.

    You should take road directions from me, I was at the place you want to go to. Sure, I went in the wrong direction for 5 hours and only got there by complete accident, but I was at the goal so I'm above all criticism from anyone who hasn't been there. What do they know anyway, reading maps and stuff.


    You're right Jeff your opinion is better than his opinion.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,133 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    What would cause you to lose fat and not weight?
    Recomp. It's actually doable, just need a lot of patience.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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    A menopausal women who cannot lose weight, will not successfully recomp.
    Untrue. I've trained many menopausal women with difficulty losing weight on their own, but with proper training it can happen. They may have to work MUCH HARDER than the average person, but it's not impossible to successfully do it.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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    It's the much harder part no one likes.

    But only some women report finding weight loss harder during menopause (I didn't for one, and a couple of others have commented similarly on this thread).

    My intention is not to discount your or others' lived experience, though: Menopause (or aging, in some other respect) may well be a factor. But, since it's not universally a problem for all women in menopause, it makes me think there must be some other relevant factor(s) as well, though I have no idea what.

    I doubt there are many problems with weight loss that are universal, but it might be safe to say that often it's harder during menopause or perimenopause. Many of the reasons are lifestyle based. And sometimes knowledge based. We are old enough to realize that some of the motivations of the young (he'll love me if I lose weight, everyone will envy me if I lose weight, life will be wonderful if I lose weight, etc.) simply aren't true.

    Some are physical. With age and especially sedentary aging sometimes come bad knees, arthritis, or other ailments that make activity more difficult. And while increased activity isn't required for weight loss, it sure makes it easier. Then there are the varying symptoms of menopause itself. Mood swings, water weight gain, hot flashes, night sweats, etc.

    I lost over 30 lbs during menopause but I did find it harder. Water weight was my nemesis. It's so hard to know if you are on track and really losing fat when you routinely gain and lose several lbs of water weight each week. I also had crazy mood swings, which luckily were lessened by exercise so that was actually a huge motivation to stay active for me.

    TLDR: the process (CI<CO) is still the same simple formula, but there may be more factors working against you during menopause than before. Or there may not be. People are different.

    I agree with what you're saying. The (frequently seen) short form "I can't lose weight (or can only lose slowly) because menopause" is seriously unhelpful - it's not a problem-solving orientation. In its extreme formulation ("can't"), it's tantamount to an excuse. "Hard" at least leaves room for some thoughtful analysis, and potential routes to achieving one's goals. If it were purely menopause that's the problem, it would be universal.
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,031 Member
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    because if you cannot lose fat, you will not be able to recomp.

    Um, menopause doesn't prevent fat loss...
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    rdridi12 wrote: »
    because if you cannot lose fat, you will not be able to recomp.

    Um, menopause doesn't prevent fat loss...

    thanks for the insight
This discussion has been closed.