Of refeeds and diet breaks
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I also really appreciate all the sharing done here. It helps knowing others' experiences.
I never knew about such large gains from water (well, I knew in theory from this thread) but it wasn't until I read accounts of actual experiences that I became aware.
Re data, one of the reasons I stopped using Happy Scale was due to the jumps in weight and this was the same reason I stopped using a spreadsheet which I found on this forum that calculated TDEE using weight lost over a period of time. Another reason was that I stopped weighing daily too.Nony_Mouse wrote: »DISCIPLINEEQUALSFREEDOM wrote: »I've been incorporating refeeds every Wednesday and Saturday and it's been working TREMENDOUSLY, I had a 2.5 lbs loss this week alone.!
For refeeds to be optimal, they are best done 2 days in a row. I highly recommend you listen to the podcast back on page 1 that was the start of this discussion.
I really need to get on with writing that tl;dr synopsis...
Ah gad yeah, thanks for the reminder.. I partied a little too hard Saturday night and spent the rest of Sunday recovering
Just as an aside, refeeds can be either done for longer (>2 consecutive days) or more frequently (2-3 maintenance refeeds spaced evenly throughout the week) for more or less the same effect. Basically you're either creating a large pulse or you're creating several small pulses throughout the week to maintain regulation. Again, all in the context of being already within optimal bf% - this is subjective according to each person, but generally within the lean-normal range for sustainability and the least amount of correlative health risks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage)
And just to add *that* much more to the pending TL;DR synopsis - Lyle talks about dieting strategies and control within flexible dieting
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fat-loss-fundamentals/introduction-dieting-part-1.html/
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fat-loss-fundamentals/an-introduction-to-dieting-part-2.html/
Yeah, mine was 3 days though only slight changes in macros since I was taking in so much carbs already in my normal diet.3 -
I also really appreciate all the sharing done here. It helps knowing others' experiences.
I never knew about such large gains from water (well, I knew in theory from this thread) but it wasn't until I read accounts of actual experiences that I became aware.
Re data, one of the reasons I stopped using Happy Scale was due to the jumps in weight and this was the same reason I stopped using a spreadsheet which I found on this forum that calculated TDEE using weight lost over a period of time. Another reason was that I stopped weighing daily too.Nony_Mouse wrote: »DISCIPLINEEQUALSFREEDOM wrote: »I've been incorporating refeeds every Wednesday and Saturday and it's been working TREMENDOUSLY, I had a 2.5 lbs loss this week alone.!
For refeeds to be optimal, they are best done 2 days in a row. I highly recommend you listen to the podcast back on page 1 that was the start of this discussion.
I really need to get on with writing that tl;dr synopsis...
Ah gad yeah, thanks for the reminder.. I partied a little too hard Saturday night and spent the rest of Sunday recovering
Just as an aside, refeeds can be either done for longer (>2 consecutive days) or more frequently (2-3 maintenance refeeds spaced evenly throughout the week) for more or less the same effect. Basically you're either creating a large pulse or you're creating several small pulses throughout the week to maintain regulation. Again, all in the context of being already within optimal bf% - this is subjective according to each person, but generally within the lean-normal range for sustainability and the least amount of correlative health risks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage)
And just to add *that* much more to the pending TL;DR synopsis - Lyle talks about dieting strategies and control within flexible dieting
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fat-loss-fundamentals/introduction-dieting-part-1.html/
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fat-loss-fundamentals/an-introduction-to-dieting-part-2.html/
Yeah, mine was 3 days though only slight changes in macros since I was taking in so much carbs already in my normal diet.
Generally hormonal blips will just flatline me for a few days, and the last couple of months they'd lined up nicely with refeeds, so easily ignored. That's shifted now, but who know's, I could be at goal under this sea of water and not have to even think about it anymore
Using diet breaks and refeeds has really helped me get over the frustration of water fluctuations though. And atm I am so beyond caring. 1 -
@Nony_Mouse, I have to say I was surprised when you predicted 4.5kg lol (as you may have guessed per my previous comment about not possibly going over 3.5kg!!). Hope it goes away quickly for you.And this concept doesn't even really include the usual fact of having much better workouts - transforming the body even more than possible at steep deficit.
So even when weight isn't lost as fast - the body can look like it has faster.
I'm only an n=1 but can attest to this as well as an increased NEAT. My step count literally doubled between Oct and Nov not only because of purposeful exercise but also moving more.
And re your Just My TDEE spreadsheet gave me a way higher number than any other online calculator. I tried to key in as accurate data as possible and I'll try going up to that level.
Thanks for this!
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@Nony_Mouse, I have to say I was surprised when you predicted 4.5kg lol (as you may have guessed per my previous comment about not possibly going over 3.5kg!!). Hope it goes away quickly for you.
Haha, yeah, I was extrapolating from the first couple of days, assuming it would be fairly linear. Apparently not, thank god. I cannot imagine carrying 10 lbs of water weight. I'm squidgy enough with just the 1 kg from pred and the 700g from ovulation!!
O weight will dissipate within a couple of days. I'm assuming today is egg popping day from the sheer pain.1 -
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I may actually brave up and do an anti-progress pic and put it along side the one from a couple of weeks ago when I had visible obliques. Won't show the true horror of my thighs, b/c I was wearing bike shorts. The only close up shots of the back of my thighs are the full on eczema ones, and I think we can all agree we don't need to see those ever again.5
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I'm going to start paying more attention to my weight along side my deficit because my weight has been lower than expected. It's TOM, and I just finished a reefed and I even went 500 cal over maintenance and I weighed the exact same this morning as I did before the reefed/TOM. I've also been way hungrier than usual since I increased my protein which surprised me. Felt fine eating a larger deficit at about 50 g of protein but at 100g I can be starving after eating all my calories for the day. Opposite of what I was expecting.0
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »DISCIPLINEEQUALSFREEDOM wrote: »I've been incorporating refeeds every Wednesday and Saturday and it's been working TREMENDOUSLY, I had a 2.5 lbs loss this week alone.!
For refeeds to be optimal, they are best done 2 days in a row. I highly recommend you listen to the podcast back on page 1 that was the start of this discussion.
I really need to get on with writing that tl;dr synopsis...
Ah gad yeah, thanks for the reminder.. I partied a little too hard Saturday night and spent the rest of Sunday recovering
Just as an aside, refeeds can be either done for longer (>2 consecutive days) or more frequently (2-3 maintenance refeeds spaced evenly throughout the week) for more or less the same effect. Basically you're either creating a large pulse or you're creating several small pulses throughout the week to maintain regulation. Again, all in the context of being already within optimal bf% - this is subjective according to each person, but generally within the lean-normal range for sustainability and the least amount of correlative health risks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage)
And just to add *that* much more to the pending TL;DR synopsis - Lyle talks about dieting strategies and control within flexible dieting
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fat-loss-fundamentals/introduction-dieting-part-1.html/
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fat-loss-fundamentals/an-introduction-to-dieting-part-2.html/
No worries, was my project/suggestion, just...distracted squirrel!! Some of it is formed in my head (this is how I work, write in my head, then on paper, or computer as the case may be, though there may be handwritten notes too).
So, if you were doing pulse refeeds, would you not have needed to do a diet break first, or institute them from the get go, for them to mitigate falling leptin levels effectively? I can see how that would work - start with decent leptin, never let it fall (much) b/c you're bumping your cals to normal every few days.
My lower abdomen is disproportionately distended on one side Goes nicely with the lumpy thighs that things literally sink into like sludge.
If already lean enough to feel the effects of hormonal dysruption after a few days, then pulse refeeding during the dieting cycle is a more effective strategy. Some don't have that level of recognition yet or aren't able to feel it yet, but for the purposes of most dieters, just from an adherence standpoint, intermittent maintenance refeeds are a good strategy to give from the get go since the average weekly intake would still be a net deficit.
Diet breaks for most people who have been on a dieting cycle for a while. Then implement intermittent/pulse refeeds if they choose to do another round of dieting.
I would normally take into account brand new overfat dieters or people just barely learning how to track calories, macros, etc. It's difficult to say "eat a normal amount of food 2 days out of the week" if they don't understand what the difference is between maintenance and ad lib eating to satiety, especially if they have poor leptin signaling already from compromised metabolisms.
So, my own opinion for new dieters: educate them on how to properly read nutrition labels, calories, macros, etc first. It'll take them a while before they even get to hitting their goal consistently. This counts for lean hardgainers who are trying to learn to gain muscle mass. It's probably harder for them since they will have trouble eating in a slight surplus, let alone eating maintenance consistently.
Then once they've got the hang of it, implement refeed strategies and they wouldn't need the diet break first, since especially if they're brand new, their entire life before that was a huge diet break in essence lol.7 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »I'm going to start paying more attention to my weight along side my deficit because my weight has been lower than expected. It's TOM, and I just finished a reefed and I even went 500 cal over maintenance and I weighed the exact same this morning as I did before the reefed/TOM. I've also been way hungrier than usual since I increased my protein which surprised me. Felt fine eating a larger deficit at about 50 g of protein but at 100g I can be starving after eating all my calories for the day. Opposite of what I was expecting.
Huh, interesting! You may be one of the few people for whom protein isn't satiating?
Also, I mentioned a couple (or more!) pages ago, my weight dropped at the end of first week of diet break, and I think it was the increased late luteal BMR thing. Geez, could anyone fail more at a diet break than I just did?? Definitely something I will be looking at when I transition to maintenance (real maintenance, not invalid maintenance). 3 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »I'm going to start paying more attention to my weight along side my deficit because my weight has been lower than expected. It's TOM, and I just finished a reefed and I even went 500 cal over maintenance and I weighed the exact same this morning as I did before the reefed/TOM. I've also been way hungrier than usual since I increased my protein which surprised me. Felt fine eating a larger deficit at about 50 g of protein but at 100g I can be starving after eating all my calories for the day. Opposite of what I was expecting.
What were your sources of protein and what was your activity like leading up to the increased protein? I remember you were feeling the effects of DOMS last week, which in itself is a very energy demanding process to repair and recover.1 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »I'm going to start paying more attention to my weight along side my deficit because my weight has been lower than expected. It's TOM, and I just finished a reefed and I even went 500 cal over maintenance and I weighed the exact same this morning as I did before the reefed/TOM. I've also been way hungrier than usual since I increased my protein which surprised me. Felt fine eating a larger deficit at about 50 g of protein but at 100g I can be starving after eating all my calories for the day. Opposite of what I was expecting.
What were your sources of protein and what was your activity like leading up to the increased protein? I remember you were feeling the effects of DOMS last week, which in itself is a very energy demanding process to repair and recover.
Oh yeah, good point on the DOMS/repair!!1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »I'm going to start paying more attention to my weight along side my deficit because my weight has been lower than expected. It's TOM, and I just finished a reefed and I even went 500 cal over maintenance and I weighed the exact same this morning as I did before the reefed/TOM. I've also been way hungrier than usual since I increased my protein which surprised me. Felt fine eating a larger deficit at about 50 g of protein but at 100g I can be starving after eating all my calories for the day. Opposite of what I was expecting.
What were your sources of protein and what was your activity like leading up to the increased protein? I remember you were feeling the effects of DOMS last week, which in itself is a very energy demanding process to repair and recover.
Oh yeah, good point on the DOMS/repair!!
Gracias! And besides DOMS, if activity increased just recently, delayed hormonal response (hormonal adaptation) could be manifesting now as increased appetite. That and I had to ask protein source because natural > supplements, as common sensical as it sounds, but even if studies show the satiating properties of supplemental protein, they were consumed prior to meals (preload) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3295702/ ... even with plant based nutrition, just to use broccoli as an example, you'd need to consume roughly 8 lbs of it to equal about 100g of digestible protein. If someone could still be hungry after that, I'd suggest some expansion into an omnivore diet lol.
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dancefit2015 wrote: »I'm going to start paying more attention to my weight along side my deficit because my weight has been lower than expected. It's TOM, and I just finished a reefed and I even went 500 cal over maintenance and I weighed the exact same this morning as I did before the reefed/TOM. I've also been way hungrier than usual since I increased my protein which surprised me. Felt fine eating a larger deficit at about 50 g of protein but at 100g I can be starving after eating all my calories for the day. Opposite of what I was expecting.
Curious, what has your fat intake done with the increase of calories going to protein?0 -
You'd think repair needs would be forefront in my brain right now, wouldn't you?1
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »You'd think repair needs would be forefront in my brain right now, wouldn't you?
Well, I'd say it's a safe priority to have on top of allergen prevention. All the other *kitten* can wait until later to freak out over. 2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »You'd think repair needs would be forefront in my brain right now, wouldn't you?
Well, I'd say it's a safe priority to have on top of allergen prevention. All the other *kitten* can wait until later to freak out over.
Trying!!
And I've already told my body it has one week to shed that pred weight. That's plenty.2 -
I wish stern talks worked on my body. It didn’t get the memo it doesn’t have to be aa contrary as my brain.3
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dancefit2015 wrote: »I'm going to start paying more attention to my weight along side my deficit because my weight has been lower than expected. It's TOM, and I just finished a reefed and I even went 500 cal over maintenance and I weighed the exact same this morning as I did before the reefed/TOM. I've also been way hungrier than usual since I increased my protein which surprised me. Felt fine eating a larger deficit at about 50 g of protein but at 100g I can be starving after eating all my calories for the day. Opposite of what I was expecting.
What were your sources of protein and what was your activity like leading up to the increased protein? I remember you were feeling the effects of DOMS last week, which in itself is a very energy demanding process to repair and recover.
I thought DOMS could've had something to do with it! The days that I was the most sore were the days I was the most hungry. And I got about 21 grams from supplement and the rest from plants/dairy.VintageFeline wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »I'm going to start paying more attention to my weight along side my deficit because my weight has been lower than expected. It's TOM, and I just finished a reefed and I even went 500 cal over maintenance and I weighed the exact same this morning as I did before the reefed/TOM. I've also been way hungrier than usual since I increased my protein which surprised me. Felt fine eating a larger deficit at about 50 g of protein but at 100g I can be starving after eating all my calories for the day. Opposite of what I was expecting.
Curious, what has your fat intake done with the increase of calories going to protein?
Well everything kind of went up together because I started eating more calories, but looking at percentages, fat and protein both went up, carbs going down.1 -
In the past week my calories deficit should've had me losing 0.68 of a lb, but I lost 1.7 lbs. I need to look at more data than a week of course, but this has me intrigued.2
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VintageFeline wrote: »I wish stern talks worked on my body. It didn’t get the memo it doesn’t have to be aa contrary as my brain.
Well, we'll see if it actually listens...1
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