Less Alcohol - August 2018 - One Day at a Time
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Day 3 AF- wanted a drink earlier but was able to redirect myself. My goal is to be AF on weeknights and enjoy drinks on weekend nights. So far so good. And just to clarify, weekend drinking will not be binge drinking, just enjoying a glass of wine or s cocktail.4
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Never mind. I don’t want this to be a thing.2
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Aww @WinoGelato. Of course I respect your decision but I’ll miss hearing about your cool business travel and successful moderation. Also you helped me get excited about Italy and told me what to expect in business class. Your input will be missed!0
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andysport1 wrote: »
I miss the early months when everyone supported everyone in this group. Go back and read Jan and Feb threads. It was support for LESS ALCOHOL. Not an AA group. Nothing but love in those days.
As opposed to the constant attacks on those of is that are able to moderate and enjoy alcohol.
I came back from vacation on Sunday night to catch up on this thread, and half of it was more debate of that. So I ignored for a few days and come to this.
I truly truly thank all of you who have supported me and helped me get my health on track this year. I love a lot of you. But I can’t come here and read this stuff everyday.
My post is to someone who is going af, I’m not saying anything against anyone who’s moderating, I’m not attacking anyone, I’m supporting and sharing what I do.
If you take it personally that’s your loss.
I don’t debate with anyone1 -
andysport1 wrote: »
I miss the early months when everyone supported everyone in this group. Go back and read Jan and Feb threads. It was support for LESS ALCOHOL. Not an AA group. Nothing but love in those days.
As opposed to the constant attacks on those of is that are able to moderate and enjoy alcohol.
I came back from vacation on Sunday night to catch up on this thread, and half of it was more debate of that. So I ignored for a few days and come to this.
I truly truly thank all of you who have supported me and helped me get my health on track this year. I love a lot of you. But I can’t come here and read this stuff everyday.
I've been feeling the same way. I loved this thread in the early months. Lately I just feel judged. I wish you success in your journey Eric, I love you too.1 -
To clear my last post up:
MOST people in this group do not judge us moderators. So you guys are not the issue. As I said, you guys have been a huge part of my positive journey and I love you guys.
But there are a few people who make those kind of comments like their thought process is the only thought process cause that is what worked for their recovery. And those people are the ones that have made me decide to move on.
Agreed! The ones asking him to stay are not the issue, as Eric said, most of you aren't.0 -
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andysport1 wrote: »andysport1 wrote: »
I miss the early months when everyone supported everyone in this group. Go back and read Jan and Feb threads. It was support for LESS ALCOHOL. Not an AA group. Nothing but love in those days.
As opposed to the constant attacks on those of is that are able to moderate and enjoy alcohol.
I came back from vacation on Sunday night to catch up on this thread, and half of it was more debate of that. So I ignored for a few days and come to this.
I truly truly thank all of you who have supported me and helped me get my health on track this year. I love a lot of you. But I can’t come here and read this stuff everyday.
My post is to someone who is going af, I’m not saying anything against anyone who’s moderating, I’m not attacking anyone, I’m supporting and sharing what I do.
If you take it personally that’s your loss.
I don’t debate with anyone
I don't feel judgment from you. I don't think everyone here is doing it.1 -
Hello, I'm struggling with stopping before I have had too much.
Welcome, @Alli_11 Any time you're struggling, read the opening post, or dip into it - there's lots there that have helped all of us!
Well done for sharing your struggle in the open. That's a big step in the right direction.4 -
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Glad you enjoyed your trip and those beers! I am eagerly awaiting the Oktoberfest batches myself. And my Denver trip was great. I visited a lot of breweries and I didn’t get drunk. I had small sample pours of the beers I wanted to taste and enjoyed the town and live music at Red Rocks.
And those beer samples tasted delicious! And that is the truth not me convincing myself
I actually said this in my post earlier up-thread. I bowed out Feb/March as the tone was becoming too "preachish" and more like an AA thread. Thought I'd test the waters this month to see it's only continued further down that path."snoo61 wrote:I've been feeling the same way. I loved this thread in the early months. Lately I just feel judged. I wish you success in your journey Eric, I love you too.
That said, I’ve always kept a lower profile than most so my participation has been minimal at best.
I’m out as well after this post.3 -
I’ve been thinking a lot about this thread and the continued pattern of people who are moderating feeling like their goals aren’t good enough or that we are judged for not going AF, or that some others feel that we are deluding ourselves to believe we can moderate our intake, that we’ve somehow naively convinced ourselves that it tastes good and that it can be healthy to still partake as a moderate drinker.
I was ready last night to make a clean break, but I thought a lot about how hard it was for me in those early days... I didn’t even post until the last day of the January thread even though I had been reading along and working really hard on reducing my intake. I was worried my goals weren’t big enough for those who were going AF, or that me talking about drinking at all would be too difficult for someone who is struggling with theit abstinence goals. In those early days I had a lot of moments where I questioned my strategy and myself, I was having internal debates between my drinking brain and my abstinence brain, and when I did drink I was always worried that I was deluding myself that the fact that I had to think so much about it meant that maybe I did have a big problem.
But then I landed on my epiphany about using a similar approach that I was successful with for weight loss to implement “‘mindful moderation” for my drinking. And after that it became so much easier and I felt so much more in control and now I've just sort of settled into a pattern where some days I’m AF, some days I have 1 drink, and some days I have 3. The days where I drink more are like the days when I eat more - they are special occasions, they are the exception not the rule, and this feels totally normal and healthy to me when I see how my friends tend to partake.
I feel like I’m confident in my abilities to do this totally on my own - just like with my weight loss I’ve reached goal and am very comfortably in maintenance, so a lot of times when I participate on the boards people ask why someone would still be here after 5 years. And my answer is always, I’m not here for myself as much anymore as I am to try to participate and help others who are struggling. And there’s lots of drama on those main boards and people often say things like things anyone who eats processed foods, or sweets in moderation must not care about my health. I respectfully (and sometimes snarkily when warranted) challenge those opinions and I say that there are lots of paths to health and they don’t all require extreme restriction, sweeping changes, moral assignments of good/bad to every individual choice, and that it’s ok to make small changes on the path to a long term healthy and happy lifestyle. I know that this approach on the main boards has been helpful to new members who are struggling and I also know that my posts about moderation tactics in this group can be helpful for new members as well. Maybe they will start with cutting back, and eventually realize they need to cut it all the way out. I think that’s fantastic and I think many of you have gone down that path.
So after that long novella, I guess I won’t rage quit after all. I may be quiet for a while but I will chime in to help anyone who is trying to cut back, not cut out. I do respectfully ask that those going AF try to be considerate of the moderators the way I and many others are considerate and respectful of your goals. And the vast majority of this group absolutely is so supportive of anyone’s goal that is trying to adhere to the group name “less alcohol, one day at a time”13 -
**Removed so I can think about this some more now that @WinoGelato cross-posted with me.**2
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Hello, I've been away for a few mths, nice to see a few oldies here.3
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Just realized today is a month AF. I'm honestly not counting, but it's a nice milestone.
I truly enjoy reading about some of the challenges that people are facing and how they've chosen to overcome them.9 -
I don't think this is the right place for strong opinions. It's only a place for support and finding what has worked for others in similar situation. Guess who else has a strong opinion on the internet? Practically everyone9
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Does anyone want to split this thread into those who are AF and those who are aiming to drink LESS?? That would certainly stop the "debate"...
I thought that all of us were free to express ourselves regardless of our goals. I cannot control what others express nor do I want to...I do not have to agree with anything that is said here, and there are times that I absolutely do not agree, nor do I need to take offense to what is said here. I can just ignore it. We all have that same option. Expressing what I believe doesn't mean I expect others to adopt my way of thinking, BUT being free to share what helps me, MAY help someone else with the same goal as me or vice versa. It isn't to be preachy. And I assume that is the same with ANYONE who is sharing on this site.
If it helps me to be AF thinking that alcohol is poison WHO CARES!! If someone who is moderating is uncomfortable & doesn't believe that or prefers to think otherwise that's OK!! You can think what you want...I can think what I want!! Another solution would be to only read the comments of those who are on the same page as you....don't read AF comments if you are trying to moderate....don't read moderating comments if you're trying to be AF....maybe that will help not be offended??
The thing is once we begin to critique each others' comments no matter which side we're sitting on, it is going to lose it's value. If a person is truly offended perhaps reaching out to the offender privately & discussing it in that way can free this thread up from debating the same thing over & over.
When I hear the comment that someone feels judged by the AF group, but not all in the AF group, it makes me wonder, am I one of the offenders?? I'd rather know straight out & not play the guessing game. So, PLEASE if I have offended ANYONE, message me. Let me KNOW so I can reassure you that I am NOT judging you or anyone else here. I have said several times how much this group has helped me to stick to my goal, but part of THAT is feeling free to express myself.
I really hope we are ALL able to continue to do that!!
AND I've likely cross-posted with someone because a few people have come on as I'm writing out my rambling musings!!! 3 -
This was the post I removed. I am not going to correct the parts that don't apply anymore now that @WinoGelato has decided to stay because if she is more quiet it still mostly applies. As @lorrainequiche59 has already broached the subject there is no reason to keep my thoughts silent on it.
@eriknj and @WinoGelato
I won't lie that I had a pretty adverse reaction to some of the posts initially. I am probably a little more accustomed to being uncomfortable with negative posts because I have a long history of posting in some rough and tumble places. I am not sure my later reaction to let it go was right though. If you longer term members are uncomfortable others that lurk and consider posting will be even more so.
I am very torn over your decision to leave. On one hand I think people who intend to moderate need help too. I have been helped by both of you. I have said it a few times now that if the moderators don't keep talking then all that is left is talks of abstinence. On the other hand I wonder if people who moderate need to get help here in this thread. Maybe it was always going to be easier for the Craig Beck-ian vibe of anti-alcohol to run free for those that need to have it in those extremes and for people choosing to cut back for non-"pickle" reasons to converse elsewhere.
The more I have thought about it since the end of last month the more I realize the resource post is clearly bent towards abstinence even though I thought I was doing a better job of keeping it mod-friendly. Trying to walk that line is very difficult... maybe even too difficult. It could also be that even attempting to walk that line makes it less helpful.
I am not suggesting anything here. I am stating my thoughts on the subject. I don't like change so I would rather keep the entire family together. The question is how to best serve people with abstinence goals and people with moderation goals.8 -
I think I am going to let this settle for the rest of the day and come back tomorrow.
In the meantime... don't forget to dance.7 -
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lorrainequiche59 wrote: »I have a personal challenge for everyone this week. At least 3 times this week turn on one of your favorite upbeat songs and dance. If, like me, you can't dance that well then dance awkwardly. Have yourself a 2-3 minute celebration whether you have a good reason or not. It doesn't matter if you do it alone or with someone else.
My kids and I do that sometimes. It's a huge stress reliever!3 -
[/quote] When this group first got going earlier in the year I recall one of the members (not sure which one) who posted before and after selfies of drinking and not drinking - the difference was startling and frightening to see how much of an impact alcohol has on our outward appearance. [/quote]
I've been taking one per week myself. Already see a difference, it's very motivating
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You know what I realized last night? Unless I'm totally mis-remembering, in January when a lot of us started with this thread, almost all of us intended to moderate. I know I did. I know others who did but I will not speak for them. What has happened over the last 7-plus months is that some of us have tried and failed and tried and failed, and some of us (myself certainly included) have sadly realized that moderation just won't work for us. In my case, decades of daily drinking are just too much to undo. So . . . we've taken the step to go ahead and go alcohol-free. I guess my point is, a lot of us, or some of us, or maybe just me (but I don't think so) who are now AF are very, very new to this game, just getting our sea-legs as someone put it. So perhaps in our new-ness to the game or enthusiasm or fear or a combination, we might overstate things or say things in a way that sounds like this way is the only way . . because we've discovered it is, for us.
No big point here, just an additional prism through which to view posts.13 -
I have not been posting this week since my grandkids are here and the days are full and the evenings are napping. I wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I have read the posts this month and understand that referring to alcohol as poison may be thought of as an attack on those that moderate. Some of the posters here know my history and the fact that I have to be alcohol free. Alcohol according to the Drs in my family and my personal physician almost killed me I was morbidly obese and extremely hyper tensive. To me it is poisonous even if not a poison if you can understand the distinction. As a defense mechanism for those that are starting to be AF you demonize alcohol to help remove the desire to partake. I am AF now over ten years and I don't think of alcohol at all as anything since it never really enters my mind. I enjoyed moderation but couldn't control it so had to give it up. All that said demonizing alcohol should not lead to attacks on those around us who can moderate. My nearest and dearest relative, my wife, moderates and drinks when we are on vacation or when we are out to dinner with our friends who are moderate drinkers and I never give it a thought. She enjoys good wines with meals.
I dropped in here and posted since I felt if I could help in any way people who were reducing their intake it was important. Reducing their intake, not just those striving to be AF. May 22 2008 I started my journey to better life and health by myself no meetings not conversations and such a guilt and shame that I discussed it with no one. This group should afford those here the ability to seek understanding from those in similar situations and find their way to a better life whatever their choices are.
I read posts sometimes that raise alarms as to what I FEEL it may indicate but I keep that opinion to myself since I judge it thru the prism of my experience and honestly none of us really knows the others here truly.
I am a runner and a swimmer for most of my fitness, should I pass judgement on someone who says to me OH I never run its bad for my knees or I cant swim a stroke? Not really but I will engage anyone who says to me YOU shouldn't run it bad for YOUR knees.
I guess in a long rambling way I am saying lets live and let live since that's what we are trying to do by reducing our alcohol anyway. Isn't it.
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@Ksandoval0401, good for you! The vanity factor is huge for me.
In fact, this morning I realized I was channeling @Norminv when I looked in the mirror and thought, "Damn, girl, you are looking good!"7 -
Since reading the whole alcohol is a poison post awhile back, I initially felt as some felt. At that time I wanted to post, "Hey I'm out.", just because I don't like to feel judged in any way, shape, or form. (And I'm sorry, it was a judgy post, maybe not on purpose, but it was.) I haven't found the time to post because I've had some serious *kitten* going on with my mom's health and it hasn't been worth investing the time it takes to type, but I keep coming back and reading other's posts. What I realized was that I need all of you guys on my Less Alcohol Journey and it doesn't matter what kinds of opinions you have and each of you are allowed your opinions whether it's for or against my lifestyle, as I am allowed mine. All of you guys made me realize that we are all Human, trying to make our way in this world, even it's making mistakes along the way. We are a family of a special kind. We need each other. Divided we are not the same and lack what the others have to offer.
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Also I personally would like to drop the whole One Day at a Time title and make it "Our Less Alcohol Journey" and that encompasses us all.2
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I started to read these posts as a support for my intended moderation of alcohol use, as the title implied. I saw that some were AA bound, for reasons of their own, and some were struggling to cut way back. Neither camp seemed judgemental or preachy until the last few pages. Then all heck seemed to break loose.
For the past 2 months I've been alcohol free [okay, one unintended glass of wine, to be polite] in order to meet my weight loss goal. When that goal is reached, I plan to resume moderate [1-2 glasses] drinking. If I start to slip into more and more...I will need to quit altogether. Thus I seem to be a member of both camps. Since I enjoy the taste of wine, I hope I am successful in moderation.
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Alli_11....some strategies I used successfully are changing locations when I feel tempted to drink, or continue to drink. Dine at a new place and order a fancy water and send the menu AND the wine list back when your order is taken. That way the waiter asks if you would care for another "fancy water" instead of another glass of vino.
Pour your evening ration into a small decanter, and when it's done, you're done.
Do not replenish your alcohol supply when it is exhausted. If the cellar is empty, pour yourself a soda.
There is nothing better than self control, and nothing harder to sustain when you have had a drink or two.
Said by someone who has pretended that the second decanter is a good idea, or who has left the house in 'jammies to go to the liquor store drive-in window.
Self-shame is never a good idea. The worse you feel about yourself, the easier it is to console your self with another drink. Just resolve to try again, starting NOW.
Oh, and just in case the "judgies" are hanging around, I HAVE NEVER driven after having even ONE drink.4
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