October 2018 Monthly Running Challenge

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  • fitoverfortymom
    fitoverfortymom Posts: 3,452 Member
    edited October 2018
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    fitoverfortymom wrote: »
    @MegaMooseEsq You can't go wrong with Hal.

    Yeah, I used Hal for my first full and my wife used it for her first 1/2 and her first full. Good plans. Everyone has opinions on this of course, but eh, they work. :D

    Agreed. Hal just happens to be a schedule of running that works well for me with an amount of miles I can achieve every week. I've done better on each of my races than I expected, so it must be working. I modified his Marathon Novice 2 plan for my 50k rather than his ultra plan, though, since I've never run a marathon. I just mathed up the miles a little.
  • fitoverfortymom
    fitoverfortymom Posts: 3,452 Member
    edited October 2018
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    rheddmobile wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    @PastorVincent: It’s from a decade ago, but I recently read an article suggesting that for competitive but non-elite athletes it’s better to go out fast in the 5k. It was just one study of college cross-country female athletes and I have no idea what other research is out there but it made a certain amount of sense to me.

    Jeff Galloway disagrees :)
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20790534/learn-how-to-run-negative-splits/

    And others...

    https://running.competitor.com/2016/10/training/how-and-why-to-hit-negative-splits-in-your-next-race_156775

    https://runnersconnect.net/running-questions/negative-splits-in-races/

    http://mojoforrunning.com/training-to-run-negative-splits/

    (etc)

    But really, unless you have a shot at winning... just do what works for you. I mean it is not like the vast majority of us will ever take home a prize bucket of money. :lol:

    If you are in that group, listen to your coach you dope. :lol:

    I'd like to point out the study advocating a fast start was on 5k and the Galloway article is specifically marathon based. Also, the study contains the caveats that it's probably only effective for non-elite non-beginner runners who have some idea of their pacing but probably start too slowly.

    Speaking for myself, the fastest 5k I ever ran, more than a minute faster than my usual, I ran one mile as fast as possible, slowed to a walk for one minute to recover, then finished. I wasn't even trying to run 5k fast that day, just testing out my fast mile speed. But since my usual 5k pace is slightly under 10 minutes, and my fast mile that day was 7:40, that meant even adding in a minute of walking I was still more than a minute faster than my typical pace, plus I started the second run interval well rested from walking. Isn't there a guy who has done studies showing that most non-elite marathoners can shave a lot of time off by run/walking?

    Anecdotally, I tend to run/walk on trail, especially as my long run gets into 18+ mile territory. I had two identical 18m runs and my walk/run was the same as my run. Had I needed to run further, I think the run/walk would have been faster, especially walking hills. I could run faster on the flatter sections than had I had to use those stretches to recover.

    I also walked the uphills at my recent HM and definitely performed overall faster than my anticipated finish.

    I'm definitely continuing the walk/run approach (ETA: on trail) because it seems to help me mentally and the data seems to support for me that it's faster.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    fitoverfortymom wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    fitoverfortymom wrote: »
    @MegaMooseEsq You can't go wrong with Hal.

    Yeah, I used Hal for my first full and my wife used it for her first 1/2 and her first full. Good plans. Everyone has opinions on this of course, but eh, they work. :D

    Agreed. Hal just happens to be a schedule of running that works well for me with an amount of miles I can achieve every week. I've done better on each of my races than I expected, so it must be working. I modified his Marathon Novice 2 plan for my 50k rather than his ultra plan, though, since I've never run a marathon. I just mathed up the miles a little.

    Honestly, a 50k is not that much farther than a marathon. Probably could have just run the plan and be fine. :) But I am a fan of more miles so I like your idea better. :)
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
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    fitoverfortymom wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
    @PastorVincent: It’s from a decade ago, but I recently read an article suggesting that for competitive but non-elite athletes it’s better to go out fast in the 5k. It was just one study of college cross-country female athletes and I have no idea what other research is out there but it made a certain amount of sense to me.

    Jeff Galloway disagrees :)
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20790534/learn-how-to-run-negative-splits/

    And others...

    https://running.competitor.com/2016/10/training/how-and-why-to-hit-negative-splits-in-your-next-race_156775

    https://runnersconnect.net/running-questions/negative-splits-in-races/

    http://mojoforrunning.com/training-to-run-negative-splits/

    (etc)

    But really, unless you have a shot at winning... just do what works for you. I mean it is not like the vast majority of us will ever take home a prize bucket of money. :lol:

    If you are in that group, listen to your coach you dope. :lol:

    I'd like to point out the study advocating a fast start was on 5k and the Galloway article is specifically marathon based. Also, the study contains the caveats that it's probably only effective for non-elite non-beginner runners who have some idea of their pacing but probably start too slowly.

    Speaking for myself, the fastest 5k I ever ran, more than a minute faster than my usual, I ran one mile as fast as possible, slowed to a walk for one minute to recover, then finished. I wasn't even trying to run 5k fast that day, just testing out my fast mile speed. But since my usual 5k pace is slightly under 10 minutes, and my fast mile that day was 7:40, that meant even adding in a minute of walking I was still more than a minute faster than my typical pace, plus I started the second run interval well rested from walking. Isn't there a guy who has done studies showing that most non-elite marathoners can shave a lot of time off by run/walking?

    Anecdotally, I tend to run/walk on trail, especially as my long run gets into 18+ mile territory. I had two identical 18m runs and my walk/run was the same as my run. Had I needed to run further, I think the run/walk would have been faster, especially walking hills. I could run faster on the flatter sections than had I had to use those stretches to recover.

    I also walked the uphills at my recent HM and definitely performed overall faster than my anticipated finish.

    I'm definitely continuing the walk/run approach because it seems to help me mentally and the data seems to support for me that it's faster.

    So all bets are off for trial. Trail conditions will often make keeping a constant pace beyond impossible. I think ALL runners do some degree of run/walk/crawl/scrabble on trail ultras, pending conditions.
  • fitoverfortymom
    fitoverfortymom Posts: 3,452 Member
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    PastorVincent wrote: »
    fitoverfortymom wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    fitoverfortymom wrote: »
    @MegaMooseEsq You can't go wrong with Hal.

    Yeah, I used Hal for my first full and my wife used it for her first 1/2 and her first full. Good plans. Everyone has opinions on this of course, but eh, they work. :D

    Agreed. Hal just happens to be a schedule of running that works well for me with an amount of miles I can achieve every week. I've done better on each of my races than I expected, so it must be working. I modified his Marathon Novice 2 plan for my 50k rather than his ultra plan, though, since I've never run a marathon. I just mathed up the miles a little.

    Honestly, a 50k is not that much farther than a marathon. Probably could have just run the plan and be fine. :) But I am a fan of more miles so I like your idea better. :)

    I'm super paranoid that I wouldn't be able to do it, so I tossed in a few extra each week. My longest long run will be 25 miles. I don't want to cross the marathon distance until I actually do the 50k.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    Options
    fitoverfortymom wrote: »
    Also, I love the rationale that a 50k is not much further than a marathon. It's more like bonus miles.

    It is a SMALL ultra. :) A mini-ultra-marathon if you like :lol:
  • RunsOnEspresso
    RunsOnEspresso Posts: 3,218 Member
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    I've done run/walk and I've done all runs. Just depends on how I feel. I prefer running the entire time but if I am struggling with breathing I'll walk.

    I think I am going to have to adopt a run/walk to finish a marathon. Even though I don't want to.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
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    Avidkeo wrote: »

    I had a few critters on the path today I had to keep avoiding that got me thinking of you guys, these are about as dangerous as you get here. What do you think, do I need pepper spray? Must have seen about a dozen of them but it's OK, I survived!
    4zzuud8lh68v.jpg

    First thing is to try to just out-run them. If that's too hard, next time run with some other runner that you are able to out-run if need be. >:)
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    Options
    Not sure if it's worth it, but i had a promo for KT tape.
    https://www.kttape.com/kt-tape-products?utm_campaign=Nuun+Hydration+Email+_hash_1+(LqLqmW)&utm_medium=email&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJiZWhleWJAZ21haWwuY29tIiwgImtsX2NvbXBhbnlfaWQiOiAiSmNQeGVZIn0=&utm_source=Nuun+Giveaway+Flow

    Promo code KTWelcome for 20% off
  • ContraryMaryMary
    ContraryMaryMary Posts: 1,671 Member
    Options
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    I had a few critters on the path today I had to keep avoiding that got me thinking of you guys, these are about as dangerous as you get here. What do you think, do I need pepper spray? Must have seen about a dozen of them but it's OK, I survived!
    4zzuud8lh68v.jpg

    Reminds me of the run where I had to change route as there were too many worms on the trail to avoid stepping on a few.

    When it comes to snails though, as a gardener, all I can say is squash 'em!!

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