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February 2020 Monthly Running Challenge

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  • autumnblade75autumnblade75 Member Posts: 1,504 Member Member Posts: 1,504 Member
    Sorry, I missed your dislike of gummy bears, but that was just an example. For this to be effective you need simple carbs. Nuts are not simple carbs. I suggest you try something else. Experiment and see what works for you.

    Plus that leaves more Gummy Bears for me, so it is a win-win, IMO ;)

    You misunderstand. I LOVE Gummy Bears. I just find their arms and legs to be a choking hazard while I'm running. Does M&M actually make a product with Hazelnuts inside? I realize I have miscommunicated. The M&M's I had were full of Nutella, essentially.
    Are you running while eating? Maybe slow down or take a walk break. I was fueling my 16 milers with pretzels at about the 10 mile mark. I would usually take a walk break at this point. Before and after pretzels I used gu and chews. I plan to use pretzels and granola for the trails when I start building my miles back up with the gu and chews.

    Maybe look into something other than gatorade? I used to drink that but I find some other stuff works better for me. There's so many options now.

    Yes, I am running and eating. I don't like it. I don't like stopping to walk, either. I find it just makes it tougher to go back to running. I don't prefer it.

    Is there anything Wrong with Gatorade, before I go exploring other options? I haven't had a lot of gu, but I did enjoy some bloks provided by whatever race that was, that one time. They had some at the store when I bought my Gatorade, but I cheaped out. I'm looking for the calories, right? Well, the Gatorade has twice as many of those for the same price. Plus I don't breathe as much of it. Those bloks I enjoyed? I was running with a friend. She stopped to eat the blok, so I stopped, too. Probably not any better than gummy bears to eat while running. (For a while, I know I was eating gummy worms, because they didn't have arms and legs to choke on - but I don't recall it being any more satisfying.)
    Would something like Swedish Fish (maybe torn in half) work? Or Skittles?

    Swedish Fish are a big no from me. You can keep all of those. I like Skittles, and Starburst.
    TailWind is highly recommended and many Marathon runners drink it as both all their fuel AND water AND electrolytes. Might be worth trying instead of trying to eat and run.

    Ooh - caffeine, too. I might be willing to throw some money at this.
    shanaber wrote: »
    @autumnblade75 - Here is a pretty good article on fueling long runs with some examples of what you can use. Basically 45–90 grams of carbohydrates per hour or 80-100 calories every 20 minutes.

    Like @RunsOnEspresso said there are so many options. Personally I can't stand GUs but I like the Shot Bloks and things like that. My favorite is SKRATCH Labs fruit chews as they are not as big or sticky gummy as the Shot Bloks. I also like their energy drink powders. I have tried several kinds and they are easier on my stomach. The key is to find what works for you and gives you enough fuel over the entire run.

    I am probably just starting from a place of glycogen depletion. I don't think I have fully internalized how hard it is to train for a marathon and sustain any type of deficit. As much as I think I'd have an easier time lugging 10 less pounds of Me around in two months, I may find I have a relatively easier time if I get the training done.

    I read the article. It seems pretty sound. There is a lack of personalization in the recommendation for how much to consume, regardless of how much you burn. I think 80-100 calories every 20 minutes might be overkill at the pace I'm running. I can't find the page that stated that you can't digest more than 30% of the calories you burn while running, but there seems to be evidence that the 30% figure is generally accepted as a good estimate for replenishment. That puts me at 462 calories replacement for 15 miles, over 3 hours. Since that's just a bit more than 2 (32 oz) bottles of Gatorade, I might still want some additional water handy. Probably not a bad idea in case too much Gatorade bothers my stomach.

    I'm also cheap. But I bought a tub of pectin with this recipe in mind: https://trailrunnermag.com/nutrition/recipe-fruit-endurance-gel-blocks.html after the last marathon I ran. I still haven't tried to make them, but it's one more thing to try. I probably won't prefer them, since it'll still be eating while running, or stopping to eat - neither of which I truly prefer, but I probably should do something with that tub of pectin.


    Anyway - today I tried to run slower. I stuck the treadmill on a 12:30/mile pace and attempted to watch a bad Zombie flick instead of listening to music and Zombies, Run! I made 3.8 miles. Reasoning: all my music is at 170 bpm for cadence. It's already hard enough to move my legs that fast and go so slow. Cadence will naturally slow if I am not following music. The movie was bad. Not even in an enjoyable way. I couldn't hear it. I didn't want to stop to turn on captions because I've already wasted so much daylight downloading the app and figuring out how to cast to the TV. (I don't do this sort of thing often, and we used a different streaming service the last time I tried it... That movie was also bad, but in a more enjoyable way and it worked out, that time.) But I already mentioned that I've been suffering from a bout of insomnia, and maybe I've had too many attempts at the 15 mile effort. I didn't push as hard as I could've. Tomorrow is a rest day, either way.

    exercise.png



  • autumnblade75autumnblade75 Member Posts: 1,504 Member Member Posts: 1,504 Member
    I don't have a source but I'm sure it could easily be found but most non-professionals run most of their training runs too fast. The 80/20 method really explains it well. I definitely recommend reading the book by Matt Fitzgerald. It's about HR training but I found it really interesting overall and try to do 80/20. (Not HR based though, I base on it can I sing or can I send a text message while running LOL)

    I'm picturing you typing with both thumbs, but I'm stupid, right? I'm the only one in the whole world resistant to the speech-to-text thing. If I wanted to talk into my phone, I'd Call the person I wanted to talk to.

    I just looked at my Fitbit data from today's run. Max of 171 - the line is orange. Yesterday, whole run at 166 and the line is red. There is no rhyme or reason to it.

    2l6zhuvuhqby.png
    x51db85c9m3i.png

    Edited: I mean, clearly, yes, I could stand to slow down. I tried. I got even less out of it. I'll try again Thursday after a rest. Hopefully I manage to figure out how to sleep, too.
    edited February 11
  • PastorVincentPastorVincent Member, Premium Posts: 6,606 Member Member, Premium Posts: 6,606 Member
    @autumnblade75 Yeah, I really think it sounds like you would be better off replacing your drink with a product like TailWind or SkratchLabs Sport Hydration Drink Mix.

    Also, I think you are underestimating your calorie needs - but if you allow yourself to experiment with more (50% is closer to the number I hear most often quoted) or less on different runs you should find your number with time. Everyone is different, and no algorithm will work other than to give you a starting point for your testing.

    Also, I am having a tough time tracking it but it does not sound like you are giving yourself enough time to recover between long run attempts. If you try for 15 and made 12... then you should back off for a week before trying again so that your body can build itself back up. Rest and recovery is critical to training.
  • rheddmobilerheddmobile Member Posts: 5,463 Member Member Posts: 5,463 Member
    @autumnblade75 The cadence advice commonly given to runners doesn’t remain valid at slower speeds. 12+ minute pace at 170 cadence is hard because it’s not meant to be that way! Run at a natural cadence and don’t overstride and it will sort itself out. I swear I’ve seen more women who have read some dumb cadence article on the internet saying to aim for 180 - one poor soul looked like she was prancing in place pretending to be a pony. You don’t need to artificially increase your cadence.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunnerT1DCarnivoreRunner Member Posts: 10,794 Member Member Posts: 10,794 Member
    Smarties are actually dextrose, which is better (faster absorbed) than sugar... sucrose (sugar) includes a fructose molecule, which is processed by your liver. Dextrose is so chemically close to glucose that it can be absorbed directly and used in the body as though it is glucose.

    Glucose tablets for hypoglycemia treatment are made of dextrose. Also, a paramedic can give dextrose intravenously to an unresponsive patient. This is in either a D50 or D10 concentration, but is put straight into blood and is used as glucose right away.

    *Note: Do not insert IV's while running...

    I'm feeling like a monster, declining everyone's favorite candies. I'm not a fan of Smarties, but I'd consider Sweet Tarts. The ingredients list starts with dextrose, so they've got that going for them. I have no idea if I'm talented enough to inhale dry sugar dust.

    I have no intention of attempting to mainline them, even when I'm not running.

    When you are not running is the only time that it would be appropriate to take dextrose intravenously. More specifically, it is only appropriate to accept the risks that come with IV's when unresponsive due to severe hypoglycemia. And even then, only paramedics or higher qualifications are going to do that (though I have heard that there are some agencies in the U.S. that allow AEMT's to do this, I don't know of any specific agencies).
  • PastorVincentPastorVincent Member, Premium Posts: 6,606 Member Member, Premium Posts: 6,606 Member
    Can someone comment on why all these drink mixes are over $1 per 100 calories? I am definitely too cheap to go drinking $8 worth of sugar water on a single training run. I'm balking at $3 worth of Gatorade.

    I do not KNOW, but I SUSPECT that it is because it is a new industry (relatively) and we are still paying for the R&D costs. These drinks go way beyond what Gatorade does, but if you search the net you can probably find some home recipes you can make yourself.


  • autumnblade75autumnblade75 Member Posts: 1,504 Member Member Posts: 1,504 Member
    Can someone comment on why all these drink mixes are over $1 per 100 calories? I am definitely too cheap to go drinking $8 worth of sugar water on a single training run. I'm balking at $3 worth of Gatorade.

    I do not KNOW, but I SUSPECT that it is because it is a new industry (relatively) and we are still paying for the R&D costs. These drinks go way beyond what Gatorade does, but if you search the net you can probably find some home recipes you can make yourself.


    I googled. I think I'd rather drink Gatorade than any of the recipes I see. Or add some table salt to good old fashioned Kool-Aid, made with Sugar. I see Amazon carries dextrose - $6 for 2 lbs. MUCH more economical.

    So, aside from hydration, electrolytes (salt) and fuel (sugar) what exactly am I failing to understand that I should be demanding from my sports drink? Yeah, caffeine would be nice, but it's not like I can't get that as a stand-alone either.
  • katharmonickatharmonic Member, Premium Posts: 5,065 Member Member, Premium Posts: 5,065 Member
    Not to belabor the fueling discussion on things you aren't interested in, but my favorite is to use Honey Stinger chews. They are soft and for me, easy to eat on the run - slowing down a little usually but I can eat them at a long run pace for sure if I can get the package open (I usually forget but try to put some in a ziploc bag for a race where I don't want to fumble with packaging). I also like sports beans with caffeine - cherry are my favorite (and I'm NOT a jelly bean fan, but these are good and small and easy to eat).

    For electrolyte drinks, I personally can't stomach gatorade but I do like Tailwind (lemon flavor) and have had good luck with it as far as I can tell. I use it most in the heat of summer. I bought a bag of it and it seems to last forever and is easy to mix up.


    Date :::: Miles :::: Cumulative
    02/01/20 :::: 7.8 :::: 7.8
    02/02/20 :::: 3.1 :::: 10.9
    02/03/20 :::: 3.8 :::: 14.7
    02/04/20 :::: 2.0 :::: 16.7
    02/05/20 :::: 2.2 :::: 19.0
    02/06/20 :::: 1.4 :::: 20.4
    02/07/20 :::: 7.0 :::: 27.4
    02/08/20 :::: 1.6 :::: 29.1
    02/09/20 :::: 2.1 :::: 31.2
    02/10/20 :::: 3.2 :::: 34.3
    02/11/20 :::: 3.4 :::: 37.7

    I made it to the gym a little after 6:30 this morning in an attempt to "get it done early". I met up with a couple of people to do a 15 minute mace workout. Then I did my pull-ups and ran on the fancy video NordicTrak treadmill. I picked a crater rim run today, I can't remember where it was located, but it was pretty. I ended up overriding the incline and speed adjustments because I was still sore and tired from last night's speedwork. I just wanted to do a more gentle base run.
  • PastorVincentPastorVincent Member, Premium Posts: 6,606 Member Member, Premium Posts: 6,606 Member
    Can someone comment on why all these drink mixes are over $1 per 100 calories? I am definitely too cheap to go drinking $8 worth of sugar water on a single training run. I'm balking at $3 worth of Gatorade.

    I do not KNOW, but I SUSPECT that it is because it is a new industry (relatively) and we are still paying for the R&D costs. These drinks go way beyond what Gatorade does, but if you search the net you can probably find some home recipes you can make yourself.


    I googled. I think I'd rather drink Gatorade than any of the recipes I see. Or add some table salt to good old fashioned Kool-Aid, made with Sugar. I see Amazon carries dextrose - $6 for 2 lbs. MUCH more economical.

    So, aside from hydration, electrolytes (salt) and fuel (sugar) what exactly am I failing to understand that I should be demanding from my sports drink? Yeah, caffeine would be nice, but it's not like I can't get that as a stand-alone either.

    So I currently use Scaps (salt pills) + Propel (a Gatorade product) + gummies, so I might not be the person to answer this. :)

    TailWind, Skratch, are just premixed and correctly done, easy street. I plan to try Skratch though the less thinking I do while I run the better. :)
  • rheddmobilerheddmobile Member Posts: 5,463 Member Member Posts: 5,463 Member
    @autumnblade75 Yeah, I really think it sounds like you would be better off replacing your drink with a product like TailWind or SkratchLabs Sport Hydration Drink Mix.

    Also, I think you are underestimating your calorie needs - but if you allow yourself to experiment with more (50% is closer to the number I hear most often quoted) or less on different runs you should find your number with time. Everyone is different, and no algorithm will work other than to give you a starting point for your testing.

    Also, I am having a tough time tracking it but it does not sound like you are giving yourself enough time to recover between long run attempts. If you try for 15 and made 12... then you should back off for a week before trying again so that your body can build itself back up. Rest and recovery is critical to training.

    I hear your point about allowing more recovery between long runs, I think I give up chasing 15 at least until Sunday, when I'm supposed to try for 18 and at that point, I am resolved to try to keep my speed down to 12:00/miles with no speed intervals at all, no matter how boring it is. I'm stubbornly resistant to replenishing half my calories while running, not only because it means I don't get to eat big dinners, but also because of my recollections of having delightful half-marathon distance runs, fasted, sometimes as often as 3 days in a row! I acknowledge that if this is holding me back as a runner, it is entirely my own fault.

    Can someone comment on why all these drink mixes are over $1 per 100 calories? I am definitely too cheap to go drinking $8 worth of sugar water on a single training run. I'm balking at $3 worth of Gatorade.
    I used to use Smarties. They’re pretty much straight sugar so as low calorie per carb as it gets, plus they absorb quickly since they basically explode into sugar powder if you chew them. As far as not being a choking hazard and being easy to eat while running, they worked really well for me.

    @autumnblade75 I know it’s hard to wrap your head around but slowing down really does help when increasing mileage. If you can’t easily hold a conversation while running, you are going too fast. Speed comes later!

    Smarties are actually dextrose, which is better (faster absorbed) than sugar... sucrose (sugar) includes a fructose molecule, which is processed by your liver. Dextrose is so chemically close to glucose that it can be absorbed directly and used in the body as though it is glucose.

    Glucose tablets for hypoglycemia treatment are made of dextrose. Also, a paramedic can give dextrose intravenously to an unresponsive patient. This is in either a D50 or D10 concentration, but is put straight into blood and is used as glucose right away.

    *Note: Do not insert IV's while running...

    I'm feeling like a monster, declining everyone's favorite candies. I'm not a fan of Smarties, but I'd consider Sweet Tarts. The ingredients list starts with dextrose, so they've got that going for them. I have no idea if I'm talented enough to inhale dry sugar dust.

    I have no intention of attempting to mainline them, even when I'm not running.

    Sweet tarts should work just as well! I found that the sweetness makes me salivate so the dust isn’t a huge problem.
  • shanabershanaber Member Posts: 5,459 Member Member Posts: 5,459 Member
    Can someone comment on why all these drink mixes are over $1 per 100 calories? I am definitely too cheap to go drinking $8 worth of sugar water on a single training run. I'm balking at $3 worth of Gatorade.

    I do not KNOW, but I SUSPECT that it is because it is a new industry (relatively) and we are still paying for the R&D costs. These drinks go way beyond what Gatorade does, but if you search the net you can probably find some home recipes you can make yourself.


    I googled. I think I'd rather drink Gatorade than any of the recipes I see. Or add some table salt to good old fashioned Kool-Aid, made with Sugar. I see Amazon carries dextrose - $6 for 2 lbs. MUCH more economical.

    So, aside from hydration, electrolytes (salt) and fuel (sugar) what exactly am I failing to understand that I should be demanding from my sports drink? Yeah, caffeine would be nice, but it's not like I can't get that as a stand-alone either.

    Most all of them in addition to salt have calcium, potassium and magnesium in appropriate amounts to provide benefit and not upset your stomach. Some may have more or less of one or the other. I honestly think for me the potassium and magnesium are more important than the sodium but really all of them are.
  • RunsOnEspressoRunsOnEspresso Member, Premium Posts: 2,541 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,541 Member
    I don't have a source but I'm sure it could easily be found but most non-professionals run most of their training runs too fast. The 80/20 method really explains it well. I definitely recommend reading the book by Matt Fitzgerald. It's about HR training but I found it really interesting overall and try to do 80/20. (Not HR based though, I base on it can I sing or can I send a text message while running LOL)

    I'm picturing you typing with both thumbs, but I'm stupid, right? I'm the only one in the whole world resistant to the speech-to-text thing. If I wanted to talk into my phone, I'd Call the person I wanted to talk to.

    I just looked at my Fitbit data from today's run. Max of 171 - the line is orange. Yesterday, whole run at 166 and the line is red. There is no rhyme or reason to it.

    2l6zhuvuhqby.png
    x51db85c9m3i.png

    Edited: I mean, clearly, yes, I could stand to slow down. I tried. I got even less out of it. I'll try again Thursday after a rest. Hopefully I manage to figure out how to sleep, too.

    Yes actually... literally texting with my thumbs. Or answering DMs on Instagram.

    Gatorade is mostly sugar and dyes. Personally I use Nuun Endurance and I've noticed a lot more road races are switching to Nuun from Gatorade lately. https://runningmagazine.ca/health-nutrition/stwm-switches-from-gatorade-to-nuun-endurance/ But Skratch and Tailwind are also very popular. I haven't tried either.
  • RunsOnEspressoRunsOnEspresso Member, Premium Posts: 2,541 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,541 Member
    One more thing, the more you run, the more efficient your body gets at using fuel. I can run quite far with no fuel, and minimal water on cold days. Weather also greatly impacts this. During the summer with my high salt content sweat, I lose multiple pounds an hour in sweat alone so hydrate much more.

    Anyways, continue to experiment until you figure out what works for you then once you have it, go with it adjusting as weather and fitness demands changes.

    Totally. I have to take water on anything over 2-3 miles while others don't take water for single digits. My throat gets extremely dry so I tend to sip every mile or so. I do this while hiking too. I find it keeps the sloshing feeling down.

    I've been a 3 but started experimenting with real food in 2019. I find that replacing one gu or chew around the mid point of 16+ miles works well for me (as I said before it's been pretzels). I can only take so much of the sweetness of gus and chews.
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