Coronavirus prep
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autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
That statement is so WRONG and callous, that if I answer it the way is supposed to be, I will be banned for life from MFP.
Please do yourself a favor and read and try to understand the science behind the behavior of this virus and forget about the idiotic things that are coming from the mouth of people without intelligence and common sense. This virus KILLS, so maybe you are thinking that if everybody is dead, then of course the virus will not have a host to invade and it will disappear. Nice thinking dude!
The only way to have herd immunity, is to have a very effective vaccine. Even if you survive the infection of COVID 19, without a sequel, that immunity is very short lived. And some people that manage to survive the infection may be dealing with bad side effects for long time. Do you think that Nick Cordero, will ever be the same person as he was before, regardless of his possible immunity?
Here is a link for you that explains the very short-lived immunity that some people (the ones that survived…) may benefit from. Please stay safe! However, if you would like to "stop living in fear," go to volunteer to any hospital treating COVID-19 patients.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=7140678719 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
I can't say I'm actually afraid when I say this, and I'm definitely not "living in fear"
, just IMO taking some sensible precautions.
I think that if (or when) I get it, there's a decent chance I'll die. I'm over 60, and I have COPD. A simple cold often becomes several weeks of a persistent cough, and sometimes bronchitis or pneumonia.
So, yes, you're right: When I'm dead, I'll stop thinking about the potential for catching it, and will cease all precautionary measures.
Heck, I'll stop thinking about the potential as soon as I test positive . . . but then the precautionary measures become even more vital, to protect other people, y'know?
I missed the phrase that you're responding too, and wanted to second this. I'm not "living in fear" either and I find the people who insist that masks and social-distancing are all about being afraid terribly condescending. I've done a lot of research, listened to lots of health professionals I know personally and online, and have made an informed decision to put up with the inconveniences in order to protect myself and others.
I didn't decide not to smoke because I'm scared, I don't buckle up because I'm scared, I don't stop at red lights and stay in my lane because I've been scared into subservience. I do those things as well as wear a mask because I've decided it's the smart thing to do.
I just got spammed on a FB post by someone in all caps with lots of sheep emojis lecturing me that masks destroy your lungs and covid is a gov't conspiracy to break my will so I might be a little touchy right now
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moonangel12 wrote: »How are you all handling differing opinions and actions amongst family and close friends? In the beginning it was easier when everyone was hyper aware and states were closed down. Now that things are opening up so many people just want normal again. I mean, I crave normalcy, but I also recognize it’s too soon.
My only living family member is my 81 year old father, and fortunately he is a man of science so he understands his risk. He is somewhat housebound anyway. I used to take him out shopping once a week, that stopped in mid-March. Now I do his shopping for him. I have managed to convince him to place one grocery order with me a week to limit my community exposure. One store. No, you're just going to have to go without that breakfast cereal that only Metro sells because it's a cramped little place and I don't want to set foot in there.
I've lost a friend of 30+ years over this. He was already a bit of a conspiracy theory guy and had been laid off from work for a couple of months when the pandemic came along. Apparently he had spent all his free time on some very dark sites, started spouting "it's no worse than the flu" stuff along with Bill Gates is going to microchip us all with the coronavirus vaccine and the tests have an 80% false positive rate and the death rates are all being inflated, etc. It's that global elite masterminding the pandemic and the downfall of the economy. When I tried to send him information to refute his claims, in return I got two-hour videos with "medical professionals" of dubious authenticity. My information was discounted every time because the institution that the scientist is affiliated with once got money from that person or organization therefore they have a vested interest in supporting those evil global elite folks. It's all very comic bookish to me. Eventually I got a very hostile email saying some quite vile things and I ended contact at that point.
The rest of my friends are much more sensible, thankfully.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »Washington state where I live has gone to mandatory masks when in public with up to $1000 fine for non-compliance. It goes into effect Friday. I don't know how stringent that fine will be, but with cameras in every location, it's not going to be hard to prove. Still not required if outdoors and able to give six feet distance. Whew. I can still walk in my quiet neighborhood without a mask. I guess I'll have to take one now, just in case.
Just wear the dang masks. Geez. I'm glad there are now $$$ teeth in this though. Up till now it's been, "Please wear them, we trust you to be a good person."
Now? Shut up or pay up.
Tucson and Phoenix have done the same, but as we speak there's an "anti-mask" rally going on in Phoenix (Scottsdale). On social media, at least they are getting brutalized. I'm sorry, but that's just not too bright of folks right there.
All I can say is I'm glad I live in semi-bubble community and work from home. People won't comply with masks until they know someone in their family in the ICU being told they might not make it. I wish that it would simply be Darwinism but others are put at risk for the "liberties" of the selfish.
Not so sure about that. I read this week in the news on line of a person refusing to wear a mask, even when he had lost family members to the virus. I didn't open the article because I found that statement so atrocious that I didn't want to get more upset reading his reasons. Some people are so narrow minded that nothing gets thru to them; not even the death of a love one.9 -
moonangel12 wrote: »How are you all handling differing opinions and actions amongst family and close friends? In the beginning it was easier when everyone was hyper aware and states were closed down. Now that things are opening up so many people just want normal again. I mean, I crave normalcy, but I also recognize it’s too soon.
It seems like we (me and my family) are the only ones in any of our circles to be taking consistent protective measures... his family wants us to come visit (out of state, 6 hour drive), but we don’t want to risk us taking something to them or my husband being quarantined from work during a very busy time due to direct exposure. A couple other friends are very much against masks and think it’s stupid they are required. My oldest is almost 13 and was sulking that he had to wear one when none of the other kids were (my husband explained to him that him wearing a mask shows that he cares about his friends). We’re not spastic about it, just mindful. A friend of mine (and her family... including 3 young CBildren) are traveling for a funeral and their trip brings them right by our house (7.5 hours away). She asked if they could stop by and maybe even spend the night. At first I was excited, but then all the question marks started popping into my mind (because my brain can be quick to forget the world we currently live in since we aren’t out and about much). My gut says I need to regretfully pass, my heart wants to welcome them with open arms. She did tell me that they have been getting together frequently with family and friends without any precautions or social distancing. Maybe we can split the difference and catch up outdoors then them stay in a hotel? I feel guilty about that, but I think she understands.
Dang it, it sucks. And in the midst of everything, why do I feel like the weird one?? I guess because we are so outnumbered.
COVID-19 does suck. Some research from China showed it was hard outdoors to catch COVID-19. Meeting outside is one thing but having a guest in one's home to test positive a few days later is more of a risk than I am ready for.
One plus I find for wearing a mask is it serves as a reminder we are in in the midst of a killer pandemic. Locally the risk of getting COVID-19 is the highest ever and climbing daily.6 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
I can't say I'm actually afraid when I say this, and I'm definitely not "living in fear" , just IMO taking some sensible precautions.
I think that if (or when) I get it, there's a decent chance I'll die. I'm over 60, and I have COPD. A simple cold often becomes several weeks of a persistent cough, and sometimes bronchitis or pneumonia.
So, yes, you're right: When I'm dead, I'll stop thinking about the potential for catching it, and will cease all precautionary measures.
Heck, I'll stop thinking about the potential as soon as I test positive . . . but then the precautionary measures become even more vital, to protect other people, y'know?
I missed the phrase that you're responding too, and wanted to second this. I'm not "living in fear" either and I find the people who insist that masks and social-distancing are all about being afraid terribly condescending. I've done a lot of research, listened to lots of health professionals I know personally and online, and have made an informed decision to put up with the inconveniences in order to protect myself and others.
I didn't decide not to smoke because I'm scared, I don't buckle up because I'm scared, I don't stop at red lights and stay in my lane because I've been scared into subservience. I do those things as well as wear a mask because I've decided it's the smart thing to do.
I just got spammed on a FB post by someone in all caps with lots of sheep emojis lecturing me that masks destroy your lungs and covid is a gov't conspiracy to break my will so I might be a little touchy right now
That bolded one kind of amuses me, when I hear it, but not for rational reasons.
It's this: For a while there, elevation masks (a.k.a. oxygen restriction masks) were a subculture-trendy thing (no, not that subculture - mind out of gutter, folks). The story - for which I think there is no good science whatsoever - was that working out while wearing a mask that limited oxygen was something that would be improve your repiratory and cardiovascular system.
Now, we've got folks ticked off because medical masks allegedly "destroy lungs" by restricting oxygen.
Both of these ideas have crummy-science ordure smeared all over them, if you ask me. But I still think the juxtaposition is funny.
But . . . maybe, Kimny, you could get Google to find you one of the elevation restriction mask enthusiast blogs, and post it back at your sheep-monger on FB?
I'm kidding! Well, maybe I am. I think. 11 -
moonangel12 wrote: »How are you all handling differing opinions and actions amongst family and close friends?
Thankfully, amongst my family sanity is prevailing, and they are being cautious and taking the necessary safety measures - at least as far as I can tell.
When it comes to friends, a few of them are actually being careful and observing the rules. The rest of them are either doing the bare minimum (for example, only wearing masks where it's absolutely required), or blatantly opposing the compliance of any measures (yes, a couple of them do believe this is all a conspiracy of sorts).
And then people wonder why I'm anti-social.
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autumnblade75 wrote: »I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
(1) We do not know if having it provides immunity. If it's like the flu, it doesn't, since it mutates enough and defenses reduce. That's why there are yearly flu shots and they aren't always effective.
(2) We are likely to develop better treatments, even if not a decent vaccine.
(3) At present, everyone getting it would be a huge number (exponentially) of additional unnecessary deaths and as noted above uncertain benefits to anyone who survived, plus a bunch more people with lasting lung and other organ damage -- we don't understand this illness yet.
(4) Opening up more than we were seems psychologically necessary and better for the economy and is aided and likely more safe if we are willing to use masks.
I really think the anti-mask thing on the whole is largely political and even understanding that I don't get it, as wearing masks seems likely to improve the stats and the economy.I'm leaning a lot more towards anti-mask these days. Or at least I'm skeptical. Don't get me wrong - I wear them if there's a sign on the door of the establishment I'd like to enter. Over both my mouth and nose, too - and without all the handling of the business portions of the mask that are so common.
I really don't get this. Where I live they are required indoors, enforced, and of course I comply and without feeling "anti" anything. I would even if not required. Outside they aren't required if one can socially distance. In my neighborhood I jog without them (since I can distance and I take that seriously). Walking around I tend to wear them and downtown (where fewer people do) I also tend to wear them. In my car, with people I know are behaving responsibly, and in my personal office, no. In other portions of my workplace, yes, and they are required.
The existing studies do suggest that they keep others safe, and given the lack of inconvenience for most of us (for those with PTSD type reactions, of course it's different), I find it odd and sad that so many will not even make the effort.
Good piece on masks during the 1918 flu: https://www.history.com/news/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resistance12 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Exactly--and it's for people like you that really can't wear a mask, that the majority should be. I think that's what's firing up everyone else who is careful, and thinking of people they care about, and wearing that mask even if it's hot and uncomfortable. They see too many people without and it can't mean that they all have medical conditions. You are to be commended for trying to wear it as much as possible. No one thinks everyone can. Thank you for doing your best.
Exactly this. We know there are exceptions, and I agree with you that people shouldn't be judgy of those outside, especially if they can or are clearly trying to social distance. And I know it can be hard inside as well for some -- I hope where you live there are options like delivery, as there are for me. Here buildings are being quite strict about people indoors.7 -
moonangel12 wrote: »How are you all handling differing opinions and actions amongst family and close friends? In the beginning it was easier when everyone was hyper aware and states were closed down. Now that things are opening up so many people just want normal again. I mean, I crave normalcy, but I also recognize it’s too soon.
I think I'm lucky in a weird way. I'm in one of the hot spots (although one where cases and deaths have consistently been going down and hospitals remained fine even when the numbers were terrifying). My friends and sister have generally been on the same page or even more cautious than me. My dad would be inclined to poo-poo it, but his wife is not, and they live in the country anyway (although in WA, which had an early outbreak), and he is doing what she tells him to do (she's a nurse).
In a way the numbers here have been frightening, but in my neighborhood at least I see a lot more compliance than many report, and my own church was responsible, stores and my office have been enforcing face masks even since reopening, and my office is pretty open to people's concerns (if you want to continue to work from home it's fine and if you don't want to take public transit -- which I currently do not -- they will subsidize parking, even though it's costly here).
My neighbors and I are socializing from the front and back yards, with masks -- one benefit of a city where no one has large lots, I suppose -- and I am doing a ton of social Zoom events, as well as Zoom work things.8 -
My kids and their families don't live nearby. One is in another state and the other lives close to a three hours’ drive, depending on the traffic. I haven't seen my older grandchildren since 12/28, and I missed my granddaughter's HS graduation. It was a drive-thru and a virtual event. I saw my younger grandchildren in January of this year, and I don't think that I will be seeing my family in person for the rest of 2020.
It really hurts. A lot. But the safety of all of us is more important. We use Skype, text, e-mail, and the phone. We are connected. We all understand and respect our choices.
My husband is 80 years old and I am in my mid 70s; both of us in a very high-risk age. All our friends are also old so we don't see each other at all since most of them don't live nearby either. We talk on the phone or we e-mail. Our closest neighbors left for the summer (too hot in town), and before that we were all in the same page. Distance, washing hand, masks.
So my husband and I are on our own since we canceled all our summer plans. It is not easy, sometimes boring but we keep busy with a big house and we do get along just fine. After all we have been married for 54 years and we have each other for support and care. Is better to be bored than dead. We still have a lot to do in this world.
Wear masks people, keep your distance and don't be a vessel of infection or death. Love, care, and respect your families, friends, and the community because we all have a lot to offer to this country and the world.19 -
Locally, shortly after the in-person dining/drinking limited reopening, photos were published of a crowd of young people, waiting to get in to a local restaurant/bar.
Now, at least 34 new cases of Covid, most in people 19-23, have been traced back to this restaurant. Anyone who went there between June 12 and June 20 is being asked to self-quarantine for 2 weeks, and get tested even if no symptoms. The health department thinks more cases linked to that location will be discovered.
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2020/06/24/harpers-bar-east-lansing-covid-19-coronavirus-outbreak-msu-michigan-state-university/3250800001/
This is a very large jump in cases in this county (though I'm not sure all 34 count in this county - not sure if they do if the people live elsewhere). Before this started kicking in, the incidence curve had been rising, but before the last couple of days when these cases started rolling in, it was moving up a couple of cases per day since a low in mid June. Here's where we are now:
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janejellyroll wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »"the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it".
There are just so many things wrong with this statement. There is no definitive evidence which suggests you cannot catch it more than once. There is also an huge unknown about LONG term chronic effects of this disease on people.
Yeah sometimes I wonder if everyone is eventually going to catch it also, but I do not think that is the preferred method of overcoming pandemics which kill.
I don't think I'm the only person who is hoping that I never catch it. It sounds like it can be truly terrible and we have no good way to know if we're going to coast through asymptomatically, with a mild case, be knocked for a loop for weeks, or even worse. I'm actively trying to avoid this thing (and am fortunate enough to have a job where I can effectively isolate).
Yep. My goal is to never catch it, and my biggest hope is that no one in my family catches it. The media here in the US does people a great disservice by not specifying what a mild case is and what recovered means. As far as I can tell, "mild" simply means not hospitalized.
And "recovered" seems to mean you no longer test positive for the virus. It doesn't mean that you can breathe easily again, are pain-free, are able to walk as long and fast as you could before COVID, that you've recovered your senses of smell and taste, that you're not still experiencing problems with your kidney, heart, or other organs ....
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New Zealander here (no new cases excepting people at the border for a few months), just to say that I hope things get better for everyone who is at risk and is reading this message. You are in my thoughts. Things are pretty much normal here (unless people have lost jobs) and I hope you and your community gets back to the way things were quickly.15
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »"the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it".
There are just so many things wrong with this statement. There is no definitive evidence which suggests you cannot catch it more than once. There is also an huge unknown about LONG term chronic effects of this disease on people.
Yeah sometimes I wonder if everyone is eventually going to catch it also, but I do not think that is the preferred method of overcoming pandemics which kill.
I don't think I'm the only person who is hoping that I never catch it. It sounds like it can be truly terrible and we have no good way to know if we're going to coast through asymptomatically, with a mild case, be knocked for a loop for weeks, or even worse. I'm actively trying to avoid this thing (and am fortunate enough to have a job where I can effectively isolate).
Yep. My goal is to never catch it, and my biggest hope is that no one in my family catches it. The media here in the US does people a great disservice by not specifying what a mild case is and what recovered means. As far as I can tell, "mild" simply means not hospitalized.
And "recovered" seems to mean you no longer test positive for the virus. It doesn't mean that you can breathe easily again, are pain-free, are able to walk as long and fast as you could before COVID, that you've recovered your senses of smell and taste, that you're not still experiencing problems with your kidney, heart, or other organs ....
This, so much this. A friend caught it, and she's been sharing updates of what her doctors describe as "relatively mild but long-lasting covid". Her day 100 update (yes, one hundred, so more than three months) says her temperature still rises to fever most days, fatigue ranges from feeling normal to struggling to even talk, and she lives alone and has been self-quarantining without human contact (other than medical professionals) for this whole time because it's *probably* not contagious anymore but nobody knows for sure. Her case is a mild one and she was never hospitalized (I think), and her current goal is to feel normal by the end of the year.23 -
Since their were no clubs, restaurants, bars open until two weeks ago the young people downstairs took it upon themselves to begin using their place as a club. Literally stuffed their apartment full of people shouting singing and stomping in time to the extremely loud music. They held these 'events' three to four times a week. They must have been standing in there like sardines because our place is architected the same as theirs and they weren't even using all of the rooms.
Two weeks ago one fellow jumped out the second story window and landed on a maisonette three meters away breaking Mr. le Prairie's ceiling, toilet and mail box off the building. Others broke into an empty ground floor apartment, breaking doors and windows and scribbled tags all over the courtyard. A young married couple who are pregnant and have a small child own a small maisonette in the courtyard were away for the weekend and they csme home to find broken bottles all around their door step. That 'event' was extreme noise from 11:00 in the evening until 5:00 in the morning. They were stomping on the floor and it sounded and felt like a 4 hour earthquake. The building committee, which we aren't one of, because we are just renters, asked the landlord to evict them and she refused.
We notified the police weeks ago about the very first 'event' held in May with no response from them whatever. Later, when the committee decided to file complaints at the police department concerning this last 'event' just two weeks ago they told them that they have better things to do unless someone is getting physically hurt. ( I thought that was an ambulance call, not police?)
This week we have people coughing a lot in at least two apartments and now have day time parties because all the land lord gave them was warning a about the nightime noise.
I'm having serious culture shock. At one point in all this I thought I was losing my mind until I read that you all in the USA are seeing similar problems.
In France the only people who present at hospitals sick or want tests done are getting tested so really we have no accurate idea of the ratio of increase.
The governments seem to have decided to let the disease of Covid19 have its way with those who can't or won't protect themselves. Every one for themselves then. I hope you all find everything you need to stay safe and well.15 -
Ugh, pictures like the restaurant reopening and none of the crowd is wearing masks......You have to wonder how many that tested positive afterwards are beating themselves up for being so careless. And yes, the Nick Cordero story is such a sad one. He's been existing for 3 months, one trauma after another and as far as I know, he's still not conscious, is he? I cannot imagine what his family is going through, keeping their hope and faith up each day then doing the 1 step forward, 3 steps back.
IF he comes out of this alive, I cannot imagine what his lifelong health battle will be like.
Ran to the store last night for a bunch of paper/cleaning products I was getting low on. Hardly anyone wore a mask. I was 1 of 5 out of maybe 100 in the whole store wearing a mask.
I still go to my sister's house to give her respite. She's turning 76, her dh is turning 81; he has Alzheimer's. I always wear a mask, they've told me don't worry about it, I could take it off. No thanks. I'll keep it on. They have several people come into their home, between a bath person, caregivers, a weekly nurse, and a dr. that comes in once a month. ONLY 1 of those people wears a mask appropriately. It's one of his caregivers. She wears it conscientiously, and throws it away as soon as she leaves, then dons a new one for her next client. EVEN the dr. is very lazy about it, which makes me so angry. And the nurse doesn't wear one. I told my sister she needs to speak up and insist on them. She doesn't want to cause waves. 12 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Exactly--and it's for people like you that really can't wear a mask, that the majority should be. I think that's what's firing up everyone else who is careful, and thinking of people they care about, and wearing that mask even if it's hot and uncomfortable. They see too many people without and it can't mean that they all have medical conditions. You are to be commended for trying to wear it as much as possible. No one thinks everyone can. Thank you for doing your best.
So well said by both of you.My beef with anti-maskers are the ones who are simply being stubborn, contrary and not giving any thought to other people. Definitely Athijade isn't one of those. My feeling is you're one of the few who think it through and try that hard though; at least of the non-maskers. I do see where lots of people have a mask covering only their mouth and I wonder if it's so they can breathe easier through their nose? A mask, especially, in hot and humid weather, can make you feel like you're suffocating to some degree. And I cannot imagine wearing one for a whole work day as some people are required to.
I made the mistake of stopping at the Salvation Army on my way home from my sister's house this a.m. I was the only person with a mask on out of maybe 8 people there, including a woman coming into the store looking for a job.
Our area has been very lucky with low numbers and nobody at the moment known to be positive but all it takes is that one person to enter our community, not even knowing they're contagious.
My niece lives in Maine and she was relating a story about a hair salon with 2 hairdressers, both ended up testing positive after they'd unknowingly exposed 300 or so customers. But at their work, they required all patrons and employees to wear masks. Not one of those 300+ people caught Covid from those 2 hairdressers. If anyone knows this story please confirm because it's come through 2 people and I'm not 100% sure of it's accuracy. But I still find it very interesting, possibly indicating the success of wearing a mask.
I didn't find one in Maine, but another story from Missouri.
Edited to include the link:
https://www.businessinsider.com/two-missouri-hairstylists-with-coronavirus-saw-140-clients-none-infected-2020-6
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Since their were no clubs, restaurants, bars open until two weeks ago the young people downstairs took it upon themselves to begin using their place as a club. Literally stuffed their apartment full of people shouting singing and stomping in time to the extremely loud music. They held these 'events' three to four times a week. They must have been standing in there like sardines because our place is architected the same as theirs and they weren't even using all of the rooms.
Two weeks ago one fellow jumped out the second story window and landed on a maisonette three meters away breaking Mr. le Prairie's ceiling, toilet and mail box off the building. Others broke into an empty ground floor apartment, breaking doors and windows and scribbled tags all over the courtyard. A young married couple who are pregnant and have a small child own a small maisonette in the courtyard were away for the weekend and they csme home to find broken bottles all around their door step. That 'event' was extreme noise from 11:00 in the evening until 5:00 in the morning. They were stomping on the floor and it sounded and felt like a 4 hour earthquake. The building committee, which we aren't one of, because we are just renters, asked the landlord to evict them and she refused.
We notified the police weeks ago about the very first 'event' held in May with no response from them whatever. Later, when the committee decided to file complaints at the police department concerning this last 'event' just two weeks ago they told them that they have better things to do unless someone is getting physically hurt. ( I thought that was an ambulance call, not police?)
This week we have people coughing a lot in at least two apartments and now have day time parties because all the land lord gave them was warning a about the nightime noise.
I'm having serious culture shock. At one point in all this I thought I was losing my mind until I read that you all in the USA are seeing similar problems.
In France the only people who present at hospitals sick or want tests done are getting tested so really we have no accurate idea of the ratio of increase.
The governments seem to have decided to let the disease of Covid19 have its way with those who can't or won't protect themselves. Every one for themselves then. I hope you all find everything you need to stay safe and well.
The problem is that it isn't about protecting ourselves. People who don't take precautions are hurting others. If it were someone with a knife hurting others, I can stop them (legally). But it's not the same with this... I have to rely on people to care about other people and can't force them to care enough. I can wear a mask, but that does less for me and a lot more for others. IMO mask ordinances with steep fines are the only way. Reliance on people to be good neighbors isn't going to work.7 -
I saw this on Facebook from a friend. Couldn't believe it, so I fact checked it. It seems true that people are presenting legit looking fraud cards to avoid putting on masks and putting fear in business owners.
What kind of selfish person does this? I guess they feel like they are "owning" the rest of us. I keep telling myself (and this board confirms it to me) that there are some good, considerate and kind people left in the world, but this is just sick.
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-face-mask-exempt-card-its-all-a-fraud/
Sorry this seems to be a very left leaning publication but it's a good article on it. The DOJ already has issued warnings about this card that it's total BS. If you own a business and someone pulls this card on you, you can cut it up.5 -
I wanted to pop in and say thank you for all the kind words and support. I was worried about posting about my issues and possible backlash, but you all reminded me that there are awesome people out there.
Every time I wear a mask it is a mental and physical struggle. Somedays I can win that struggle and do my shopping without much trouble. Other days... I just can't. My mind will begin to panic, flashing back to the instances that caused my PTSD. I will try and logically think it through, that I am just wearing a mask because it is the right thing to do, no one is forcing me to do so, but it just doesn't work. When I begin to panic my heart rate increases and I begin to gasp for air. Which makes it WORSE because then I really feel like I can't breathe and I panic more. It's a horrible cycle until I take the mask off. Then I am "free" and my mind will start to calm down though it is not immediate. If I try to put the mask back on, then I end up right back where I was.
I have tried to have groceries delivered and it was a horrible experience. So many substitutions. Which may be fine for most people, but when you have food allergies and restrictions due to medical issues a substitution may mean you can't eat it. For example, I ordered Coconut Aminos because I am allergic to soy. They brought me Liquid Aminos which are made with soy protein. I had checked the "no substitutions" box but it didn't seem to help. So wasted money there. Also, to be honest, it is a budget thing as well. Paying for delivery takes me over my budget and I just can't keep doing that.
So I wear my mask the best I can and try to do my shopping quickly.19 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I saw this on Facebook from a friend. Couldn't believe it, so I fact checked it. It seems true that people are presenting legit looking fraud cards to avoid putting on masks and putting fear in business owners.
What kind of selfish person does this? I guess they feel like they are "owning" the rest of us. I keep telling myself (and this board confirms it to me) that there are some good, considerate and kind people left in the world, but this is just sick.
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-face-mask-exempt-card-its-all-a-fraud/
Sorry this seems to be a very left leaning publication but it's a good article on it. The DOJ already has issued warnings about this card that it's total BS. If you own a business and someone pulls this card on you, you can cut it up.
It needs to say it's issued from the ATTO, the Adult Toddler Tantrums Organization
7 -
rheddmobile wrote: »So, for background, in my county our floating average of daily cases has more than doubled, hospitalizations have more than doubled, and positivity rate has more than doubled. We are a hot spot in a hot state, getting worse daily.
I did my two weeks shopping and chores for my own household and my mother today. I am so fed up and frustrated with people. We did a pickup at Kroger. As usual they didn’t bother to get half the stuff, so my husband had to go in, where the stuff they were supposedly out of was readily available on shelves. The guy who brought our stuff out wasn’t wearing a mask. Local ordinance says he has to. My husband asked where his mask was, and he said, “Oh, they want us to wear them, but I’m not worried about it. I don’t feel sick and I haven’t been anywhere.”
So my husband had to have a talk with his manager. Who claimed to be appalled. But then he spotted the same manager talking to a stocker with his mask over his chin. Zero masks on customers.
Next, Walgreens. Masks on everyone working there, but chin only. No masks on customers.
Then trying to get an octagenerian to operate zoom. We got my mom hooked up, then realized all the friends she is trying to zoom with are octagenarians too. So had to provide tech support for half a dozen different people. My mom’s thing is forgetting all her passwords and resetting them after being locked out for entering them wrong. So she has a book for all her different passwords. Which has no indication of which password does which thing. She seems to think they are interchangeable. That took a good three hours.
Then the gas station. They have fried chicken there and I suggested some as a treat, since we were half past fed up. My husband came out complaining that he was literally bumped into by 18 different people, none wearing masks except one construction worker. I said that if that was the case he should have just left, and he said he didn’t want to disappoint me. I said I would rather be disappointed than dead. At least the chicken and the people who made it were behind plexiglas.
Our mayor has said we are not dropping back to phase 1, because what would be the point when people aren’t even following phase 2? He said that without community buy-in, there aren’t enough cops in the world to enforce proper behavior. And that the community seemed to think covid came with an off switch, that when they entered phase 2 everyone just stopped trying.
I just would prefer not to die, please, and no one else seems all that interested in helping me stay alive. Grrrrrrrrr.
I can so related to octogenarian tech support!
In her case, her computer is in a room that gets to be in the 90 degrees F in the afternoon this time of year...and the afternoon is when I'm there.
My sister is staying with our Mom for a few weeks and I'm trying to onload some tech support on her 4 -
I wanted to pop in and say thank you for all the kind words and support. I was worried about posting about my issues and possible backlash, but you all reminded me that there are awesome people out there.
Every time I wear a mask it is a mental and physical struggle. Somedays I can win that struggle and do my shopping without much trouble. Other days... I just can't. My mind will begin to panic, flashing back to the instances that caused my PTSD. I will try and logically think it through, that I am just wearing a mask because it is the right thing to do, no one is forcing me to do so, but it just doesn't work. When I begin to panic my heart rate increases and I begin to gasp for air. Which makes it WORSE because then I really feel like I can't breathe and I panic more. It's a horrible cycle until I take the mask off. Then I am "free" and my mind will start to calm down though it is not immediate. If I try to put the mask back on, then I end up right back where I was.
I have tried to have groceries delivered and it was a horrible experience. So many substitutions. Which may be fine for most people, but when you have food allergies and restrictions due to medical issues a substitution may mean you can't eat it. For example, I ordered Coconut Aminos because I am allergic to soy. They brought me Liquid Aminos which are made with soy protein. I had checked the "no substitutions" box but it didn't seem to help. So wasted money there. Also, to be honest, it is a budget thing as well. Paying for delivery takes me over my budget and I just can't keep doing that.
So I wear my mask the best I can and try to do my shopping quickly.
Hugs to you @Athijade - the fact that you confront your demons to try to protect others is incredibly brave.
So, predictably (since I was pretty sure it was an ear infection), my COVID test came back negative (on Tuesday)... AND my symptoms have mostly gone away as of Monday (thankfully - I was pretty dizzy and tired). Prior to getting sick, I had been reporting to the office for work that is fairly critical and cannot be done from my home office. I let them know the negative result on Tuesday and that I planned to be in the office on Wednesday, and was told that I had to stay away for 10 days after the last of the symptoms even with a negative test. The stated reason was because of high false-negatives with the testing. So, we're testing people with tests that are unreliable? Why bother? Anyway, I'm frustrated because 4 months ago, I'd have gone to work sick and done my job (and I know how that sounds, I'm trying to think more of my coworkers than the job nowadays). I did the 'right' thing, and now even with a negative test, I'm not being allowed to do my job (or at least the part of it that was supposedly so critical I needed to be in the office). There should be a cranky emoticon, dangit.
13 -
@Athijade
It is difficult ordering groceries. In our own situation it is better than going to the store. Nearly every order we get we have 4 items that are not available. We pay 9.50 Euros for delivery no matter how much we order. Often the delivery people are not masked. We just tell them to leave it by the door. Although things aren't perfect, and like you, we don't have money to waste, we definately stand behind staying in at all costs and waiting until people get their heads screwed on right. Even if it is a year before we can go out its better than having SarsCov2 to battle.3 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »I wanted to pop in and say thank you for all the kind words and support. I was worried about posting about my issues and possible backlash, but you all reminded me that there are awesome people out there.
Every time I wear a mask it is a mental and physical struggle. Somedays I can win that struggle and do my shopping without much trouble. Other days... I just can't. My mind will begin to panic, flashing back to the instances that caused my PTSD. I will try and logically think it through, that I am just wearing a mask because it is the right thing to do, no one is forcing me to do so, but it just doesn't work. When I begin to panic my heart rate increases and I begin to gasp for air. Which makes it WORSE because then I really feel like I can't breathe and I panic more. It's a horrible cycle until I take the mask off. Then I am "free" and my mind will start to calm down though it is not immediate. If I try to put the mask back on, then I end up right back where I was.
I have tried to have groceries delivered and it was a horrible experience. So many substitutions. Which may be fine for most people, but when you have food allergies and restrictions due to medical issues a substitution may mean you can't eat it. For example, I ordered Coconut Aminos because I am allergic to soy. They brought me Liquid Aminos which are made with soy protein. I had checked the "no substitutions" box but it didn't seem to help. So wasted money there. Also, to be honest, it is a budget thing as well. Paying for delivery takes me over my budget and I just can't keep doing that.
So I wear my mask the best I can and try to do my shopping quickly.
Hugs to you @Athijade - the fact that you confront your demons to try to protect others is incredibly brave.
So, predictably (since I was pretty sure it was an ear infection), my COVID test came back negative (on Tuesday)... AND my symptoms have mostly gone away as of Monday (thankfully - I was pretty dizzy and tired). Prior to getting sick, I had been reporting to the office for work that is fairly critical and cannot be done from my home office. I let them know the negative result on Tuesday and that I planned to be in the office on Wednesday, and was told that I had to stay away for 10 days after the last of the symptoms even with a negative test. The stated reason was because of high false-negatives with the testing. So, we're testing people with tests that are unreliable? Why bother? Anyway, I'm frustrated because 4 months ago, I'd have gone to work sick and done my job (and I know how that sounds, I'm trying to think more of my coworkers than the job nowadays). I did the 'right' thing, and now even with a negative test, I'm not being allowed to do my job (or at least the part of it that was supposedly so critical I needed to be in the office). There should be a cranky emoticon, dangit.
My husband’s work’s official policy is that you have to be quarantined for 14 days even after known direct exposure, not just symptoms or a positive test. Makes it hard when you have a skeleton crew anyway.3 -
Interesting article about how the U.S. ended up in this situation now:
How the Virus Won https://nyti.ms/2NumkRq3 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Interesting article about how the U.S. ended up in this situation now:
How the Virus Won https://nyti.ms/2NumkRq
Dude. As someone who is paranoid about cyber-security, your tiny URLs are killing me (even though I know that's not necessarily rational). I can only bring myself to click on them because you've been around long enough for me to trust that you're not trying to infect all our computers (go ahead, laugh at me - I laugh at me all the time ).
Anyway - wow. Thank you for sharing that article.7 -
moonangel12 wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »I wanted to pop in and say thank you for all the kind words and support. I was worried about posting about my issues and possible backlash, but you all reminded me that there are awesome people out there.
Every time I wear a mask it is a mental and physical struggle. Somedays I can win that struggle and do my shopping without much trouble. Other days... I just can't. My mind will begin to panic, flashing back to the instances that caused my PTSD. I will try and logically think it through, that I am just wearing a mask because it is the right thing to do, no one is forcing me to do so, but it just doesn't work. When I begin to panic my heart rate increases and I begin to gasp for air. Which makes it WORSE because then I really feel like I can't breathe and I panic more. It's a horrible cycle until I take the mask off. Then I am "free" and my mind will start to calm down though it is not immediate. If I try to put the mask back on, then I end up right back where I was.
I have tried to have groceries delivered and it was a horrible experience. So many substitutions. Which may be fine for most people, but when you have food allergies and restrictions due to medical issues a substitution may mean you can't eat it. For example, I ordered Coconut Aminos because I am allergic to soy. They brought me Liquid Aminos which are made with soy protein. I had checked the "no substitutions" box but it didn't seem to help. So wasted money there. Also, to be honest, it is a budget thing as well. Paying for delivery takes me over my budget and I just can't keep doing that.
So I wear my mask the best I can and try to do my shopping quickly.
Hugs to you @Athijade - the fact that you confront your demons to try to protect others is incredibly brave.
So, predictably (since I was pretty sure it was an ear infection), my COVID test came back negative (on Tuesday)... AND my symptoms have mostly gone away as of Monday (thankfully - I was pretty dizzy and tired). Prior to getting sick, I had been reporting to the office for work that is fairly critical and cannot be done from my home office. I let them know the negative result on Tuesday and that I planned to be in the office on Wednesday, and was told that I had to stay away for 10 days after the last of the symptoms even with a negative test. The stated reason was because of high false-negatives with the testing. So, we're testing people with tests that are unreliable? Why bother? Anyway, I'm frustrated because 4 months ago, I'd have gone to work sick and done my job (and I know how that sounds, I'm trying to think more of my coworkers than the job nowadays). I did the 'right' thing, and now even with a negative test, I'm not being allowed to do my job (or at least the part of it that was supposedly so critical I needed to be in the office). There should be a cranky emoticon, dangit.
My husband’s work’s official policy is that you have to be quarantined for 14 days even after known direct exposure, not just symptoms or a positive test. Makes it hard when you have a skeleton crew anyway.
That's the thing - I didn't have direct exposure that I'm aware of. I got tested at the direction of my doctor due to common ear infection symptoms that also happen to be COVID symptoms (sore throat being one of them). No worries, though - I was just venting. We also have the mandatory 14 day quarantine if you know you are directly exposed directive. And YES, definitely hard to work on a skeleton crew when a perfectly healthy employee is not being allowed to come in. Part of my frustration is that others are having to carry my work, and they don't have the bandwidth to do it... and I'm healthy, and would really like to go in and help. 5 -
I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
I've had panic attacks
Would wearing a face shield work for you?I wanted to pop in and say thank you for all the kind words and support. I was worried about posting about my issues and possible backlash, but you all reminded me that there are awesome people out there.
Every time I wear a mask it is a mental and physical struggle. Somedays I can win that struggle and do my shopping without much trouble. Other days... I just can't. My mind will begin to panic, flashing back to the instances that caused my PTSD. I will try and logically think it through, that I am just wearing a mask because it is the right thing to do, no one is forcing me to do so, but it just doesn't work. When I begin to panic my heart rate increases and I begin to gasp for air. Which makes it WORSE because then I really feel like I can't breathe and I panic more. It's a horrible cycle until I take the mask off. Then I am "free" and my mind will start to calm down though it is not immediate. If I try to put the mask back on, then I end up right back where I was.
I have tried to have groceries delivered and it was a horrible experience. So many substitutions. Which may be fine for most people, but when you have food allergies and restrictions due to medical issues a substitution may mean you can't eat it. For example, I ordered Coconut Aminos because I am allergic to soy. They brought me Liquid Aminos which are made with soy protein. I had checked the "no substitutions" box but it didn't seem to help. So wasted money there. Also, to be honest, it is a budget thing as well. Paying for delivery takes me over my budget and I just can't keep doing that.
So I wear my mask the best I can and try to do my shopping quickly.
I would think whatever service you used, if you had checked "no substitutions" and they subbed anyway, you could get a refund. If you go this route again, perhaps take a screen shot of your order with this info and save it until the order has been delivered? I make screenshots with Amazon when I use Prime two day (usually I use No Rush) and I'm skeptical it will actually come in two days so if it fails, I am in a better position to negotiate for a credit.
Not sure what service you're using, but Whole Foods has been great about giving me refunds when they mess something up.
I know with Instacart you can message your picker.
I just used Instacart once - I hate that they inflate prices and don't honor store sales. With Whole Foods, I get the sales and since I always make the minimum my only extra charge is the tip for the driver. I believe Peapod (which may just be a local thing) does not inflate prices. So perhaps there is a delivery service that is more budget friendly for you.
Oh, there may be pickup available too. My mom gets Peapod pickup and I believe there is no charge for that. They put the groceries in her back seat. This would cut down on the time you have to use a mask. However, it may not cut down on messed up orders 4
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