Coronavirus prep
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ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask
) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to.
They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
There is a common theory that the greatest risk is indoor, prolonged close contact with groups of unmasked people. Which is why...trying not to be political...arguing that going to an indoor event with 20,000 people is the same risk as going to the grocery store does not make any scientific sense. Just an example....no politics.10 -
ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.3 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Based on the interview link I posted . . . it may go beyond that, to the probabilities.
Contact tracing is going to have to cut off at some point. Practicality (can you identify them) is one part of that, as you say. Probability of transmission is another.
To use an intentionally absurd/extreme example: If someone has Covid & licks a stamp and puts the envelope in their mailbox, then a mail deliverer handles the envelope and immediately touches their face, I suppose maybe there's a small chance of viral transfer in sufficient quantities to cause infection . . . but I doubt the contact tracers will be trying to identify who our mail deliverer is, even though it could be done in most cases.0 -
gradchica27 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »
Some in Tucson are whining up a storm about the mandatory mask requirements. Have to read up to see how restaurants and bars will handle that. I'm not sure if people realize we are the only country whining about masks. About masks. SMH. The popular Sheriff in our town (one of the ones, "I'm gonna live my life" guys) just tested positive for Covid-19. He was supposed to meet the President this weekend! I guess he got tested in advance and found out he had it! He's fairly young and healthy, so I wish him well. But to ignore it is ignorant.
I suspect the whiners firmly believe that the compliant mask-wearers are all "sheeple" anyway.
What I've noticed here (and we have very few active cases, all currently hospitalized) is that women have promptly turned mask wearing into a fashion statement and happily sport a fabric mask with a print that reflects a hobby or some aspect of their personality. Younger men seem to like to wear industrial style masks, I've even seen some very fancy respirator masks out there, obviously work PPE. Masks are mostly being worn by retail employees and people who are obviously higher risk. I'm happy to say that the 99.9% are being worn correctly. Although I did run into a former neighbour today at the pharmacy and he didn't have his nose covered.
Covid testing at work today. It's unpleasant having someone stick something in your nose, but it's quick and not painful. Probably took a second. All of us women agreed that we'd take the nasal swab over a Pap test any day.
Yes, and I hear a lot of people talking about wearing a mask as though it exclusively is to protect the wearer and they are willing to take a risk. Too few people realize the mask is to protect others, not yourself.
Thankfully, the top manager at my work location is one of the few who takes it seriously and he sent an email to clarify for those in the office that are confused about when/where they should wear a mask. So I am hoping people at least start taking it seriously at work.
Gov Lee had a press conference yesterday encouraging mask use. They have gotten companies to make TN-themed and branded masks (college sports, Tractor Supply, Jack Daniels, and etc) to "make masks cool." Dr. Piercey (Dept of Health) said "Wearing a mask is NOT a political statement." She went on to explain how instead it was showing how we are taking care of all Tennesseans. Of course they also basically said that their goal has always been to keep the curve flat enough for hospitals to be fine, so they really don't care that the cases are going up at all right now. Ok, then... But they need to play that clip about the masks on the local news. Over and over. We do have a long way to go, but at least this development is encouraging, even though it is not enough.
When did we go from being the "Volunteer State" to the "Defiant Toddler State"?
I get glared down big time for wearing a mask here. But being 5'10" with broad-shoulders and Resting Witch Brows, I don't worry about it overmuch. I am protecting EVERYONE. I am showing people what STAYING OPEN in a pandemic looks like. It's hard for 6 people( my family) plus the other 10% of the county that are actually wearing masks to drag 60,000 people (whining and pontificating FREEDOM) where they don't want to go though. It is ridiculously difficult to get people to realize that if we don't social distance and wear masks in public we WILL be forced to close down again. You want to shop and work? YAY! Do that. Freedom! But there are new rules for a little while so that stays possible. Why? Very very contagious, possibly debilitating or deadly, virus! People, come on!
This all just makes me so discouraged and mentally tired.
I hear you. I’m in the Memphis suburbs and mask use is spotty. Maybe 50%? Maybe more, depending on location. This is before mask ordinance, haven’t been out much since, except to dr/pt and church. 100% use at dr & temp check and mask usage at PT. Church (spaced seating) is maybe 90%—I def give the side eye to non mask wearers—some in their 20s, some older. I sewed masks for my entire family and it can be a battle to keep a 4yo boy properly masked...why can’t you, a grown adult, wear one?? Especially since 50%+ of the people at church are elderly (bishop extended the dispensation of one’s Sunday obligation until September, so people, esp the vulnerable, can stay home with no moral qualms. Attendance is increasing, at least at my church.)
Many things are returning to almost normal. Despite not moving to Phase 3 yet our town baseball league is resuming games tonight (soccer, however, canceled plans for a summer league, but multiple programs are running indoor and outdoor summer camps). Some MDOs have been back in session for a few weeks. I am now the crazy one for pushing masks and being a bit more cautious.
North of Memphis in rural west TN is still at 0.5% mask usage and I don't think it was ever higher than 2% based on my observations.4 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Based on the interview link I posted . . . it may go beyond that, to the probabilities.
Contact tracing is going to have to cut off at some point. Practicality (can you identify them) is one part of that, as you say. Probability of transmission is another.
To use an intentionally absurd/extreme example: If someone has Covid & licks a stamp and puts the envelope in their mailbox, then a mail deliverer handles the envelope and immediately touches their face, I suppose maybe there's a small chance of viral transfer in sufficient quantities to cause infection . . . but I doubt the contact tracers will be trying to identify who our mail deliverer is, even though it could be done in most cases.
My children were doing cards for a nursing home for a project a friend organized and my 12 year old opted to seal the envelope with stickers instead of licking it because of fewer germs. Proud of him for connecting those dots, but then I worry for his future emotional health because even as a child he showed strong OCD tendencies... if he, at 12, is already (by necessity) that aware of germs, where is he going to be when he gets my age? (It’s an ongoing battle in my brain - I can almost visualize germ transfer when out in public and I have to make focused efforts to try and turn it off so I don’t drive myself, and my family, absolutely mad... and this was pre-COVID).10 -
ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
That's what I tell myself about going up and down the aisle I don't need. 3 -
Ate at Los Portales for lunch with wife, kids and daughter in law for first dine in event since things went bat crazy. Some of the staff were wearing masks but not one person dining was wearing a mask. There were some missing tables.1
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https://themighty.com/2020/06/end-covid-19-quarantine-danger-chronic-illness/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Media_Partner&utm_campaign=PopSugar
My own experience varies a bit, but I also have frustrations about other's lack of care.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Ate at Los Portales for lunch with wife, kids and daughter in law for first dine in event since things went bat crazy. Some of the staff were wearing masks but not one person dining was wearing a mask. There were some missing tables.
We went out to breakfast yesterday, for the first time since early March. No one came into the restaurant, besides us, with masks on. Wait staff was not wearing masks. Tables were spread out, big X’s in duct tape on every other booth and guests at least 6 feet apart. No condiments on tables. Very clean in appearance. Rural SE Minnesota, just north of Rochester. I have to admit I felt a twinge if guilt, just being there.10 -
here is a common theory that the greatest risk is indoor, prolonged close contact with groups of unmasked people. Which is why...trying not to be political...arguing that going to an indoor event with 20,000 people is the same risk as going to the grocery store does not make any scientific sense. Just an example....no politics.
yes if that were truly equal risk there would of been no point in any banning of gatherings or any restriction on gathering numbers like weddings funerals, sports crowds etc
which every single country did - so nothing political about that.
I assume all weddings and funerals, even without restricted numbers would be less than 20,000 anyway.
In order to have population compliance you have to have clear non partisan advice from the top.4 -
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do3 -
paperpudding wrote: »Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do
The functionality was added to phones in the US (Android and iPhone), but not enabled because waiting on the government to come up with the other piece.
If you have an Android phone, go under Settings, then GOOGLE settings and it's there.. If you have an IPhone, go to settings, privacy then health.1 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do
The functionality was added to phones in the US (Android and iPhone), but not enabled because waiting on the government to come up with the other piece.
If you have an Android phone, go under Settings, then GOOGLE settings and it's there.. If you have an IPhone, go to settings, privacy then health.
I'm not sure what you mean by "waiting for the government to come up with the other piece"
In Australia (and Singapore and a few other countries, I believe) the government has set up an app - called Covidsafe and is strongly encouraging people to download it.
1 -
I don't think we have an app which links to that phone health setting here in the US. "You cannot turn on Exposure Logging without an authorized app installed that can send Exposure Notifications ...."0
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I think is it is more than there just being an app that people are not sure if they have access to
Here in Australia (and Singapore and co, I presume) one would have had to be hiding under a rock for the last 2 months to not know there is an app and to not know the government wants you to download it.
(if you have a mobile phone, of course)1 -
paperpudding wrote: »I think is it is more than there just being an app that people are not sure if they have access to
Here in Australia (and Singapore and co, I presume) one would have had to be hiding under a rock for the last 2 months to not know there is an app and to not know the government wants you to download it.
(if you have a mobile phone, of course)
Well, smart phones or other mobile devices with internet access anyway. Not mobile phones without internet access.0 -
Last week I did get my first hair cut, massage and pedicure in 3-4 months.
It seems based on the news coming out of China that it indicates that a hard shutdown can flatten the curve only to see it get worse again even if in another city. It seems the irrational COVID-19 fear from the medical news media is turning into a realization the corona virus will be with us for years. Like with HIV and other viruses a safe and wholly effective vaccine may not be realized for many years to come.
In the meantime the will to live indicates it is time to move from an irrational fear of getting COVID-19 and running out of toilet paper and getting on with life by showing full respect but not fear of the current corona virus and the new ones coming our way. We can see COVID-19 is not to be feared like our many man made crises in the news today that the will to address seems to be lacking.
I feel COVID-19 will fade from our minds but our years of human abuses in all nations of the world is still a concern for the children and future children quality of living.
Hopefully the coming endemics will be addressed up front so they never become pandemics if we learn anything from our current corona virus prepping actions.6 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Or you have a phone app that can be used for tracing who you have been in close contact with for more than15 minutes.
Of course that wont work totally even if you had a willing population - there are people who dont have mobile phones or who don't take them everywhere - but that is the idea: if you test positive, it traces people like someone stuck in a supermarket queue or a Dr's waiting room etc who you did not know.
We are now at zero cases in South Australia and opening things up again - you can go to weddings/funerals/social or sporting clubs with social distancing restrictions - and the co ordinaters of the event need to keep lists of names and phone numbers and arrival/leaving time of attendees.
Which is easy enough to do
The functionality was added to phones in the US (Android and iPhone), but not enabled because waiting on the government to come up with the other piece.
If you have an Android phone, go under Settings, then GOOGLE settings and it's there.. If you have an IPhone, go to settings, privacy then health.
Huh. Thanks for this. I didn't realize they had already put this on our phones. I wonder when it will go active?0 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »baconslave wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »JustSomeEm wrote: »@MikePfirrman - thank you for the update on your fire situation. I've been thinking about you, and I'm glad to hear that it shouldn't get much closer to you guys.Diatonic12 wrote: »Three things never die. Cactus, Fruitcake and 'Rona.
LOL!
So, I'm home self-quarantining. I have what I strongly suspect to be an ear infection. Tried to get an appointment to have my ear checked and ended up with a tele-appointment where the doc told me I could have anything from vertigo to heart disease.
When I asked if I could just have an appointment so she could check my ear, she told me (more alluded than a direct statement) that I had to test negative for COVID before I'd be allowed in the office. 
So yesterday I got tested, and now I wait for the negative test. I'm hoping by the time the test comes back the ear infection resolves itself. But in the meantime I get to stay home and sleep, and I'm okay with that. HOWEVER, my faith in tele-medicine has totally tanked. I think the doc was googling my symptoms while we talked... (kidding. Sorta).
Fortunately you are able to get tested... I still am unaware of any way in my area to get tested unless showing "severe symptoms." (According to the county health dept., even people with mild symptoms don't get tested.)
I went to the urgent care in May (I moved a year ago and never setup a new PCP here). They had people scan temps in car when you enter the parking lot, but that was it. Like you hope in your case, the tests took so long that my symptoms resolved themselves anyway. And the results were not even very certain anyway, so not sure how the dr. would have treated it if I still was experiencing issues.
See, we're "supposed to" be able to go to the Health Dept. And "anyone who thinks they need to test can get a test." As long as you go in the 2-hr window they are actually testing that day. How that translates into reality...well dubious isn't a strong enough word.
@baconslave Not sure where you are at, but I am in west TN near the MO border and nobody here is wearing masks or taking this seriously except at work where fortunately we have a manager that cares.
At least you have the manager! My hubby has been working from home. I'm just a homeschooling stay-at-homer. But I made masks for my family in March. None of us has been outside our property without them since the lockdown.
We're in Northeast TN on the border of NC in the mtns. We're almost an hour drive from Bristol. It's hit and miss for employees wearing masks, but mostly miss. The only place I have seen employees with masks is the eye doctor office and Domino's Pizza. None at Little Caesar's or the Food City (grocery). Now if you travel in the opposite direction to the larger town next door, which we do as we live so far out in our county we're almost in the next and travel to that town is about the same time, Krogering nets us 40% mask wearers and employees who don't wear them are the exception. We refuse to go to Walmart around here because we know these people and know they aren't wearing them. We were the only mask wearers in Lowe's when I had to get some soil for the garden, no employees wearing them either. I went to the bank and none of the tellers were wearing any but they had what I call "sneeze guards." Big sheets of plexiglass across the counter. Oh the glares! And no shoppers except 1 elderly gentlemen had masks besides me at the Dollar General. Keep glaring at me. Whatever...
I have a 76-year-old Dad who very much does not care to die, and my sister and I agree we don't want him to die either. So basically we quarantine to protect him. My kids can't see my inlaws at all b/c shopping and dining without social distancing and masks is more important to them than their grandchildren. My husband is so pissed at them. And my friends and I can't hang out, nor can my teens and their friends hang out because none of the friends or their parents take it seriously either. I'm getting really tired of looking at these 4 walls. But we have gone camping a couple times, but no contact with other campers. We have an RV so we don't use the bathhouses. My kids are good about distancing. And won't go near the playground and other kids since we've said no. So at least we have that. The kids all have bikes, and we can hike as well.
The whole Tennessee Pledge was nothing but lipstick on a pig. I like the Governor a lot, but he cares too much about getting reelected. He's out of touch. I don't know what people are like out west or in the bigger cities of our state, but us Appy's are a different breed of special apparently anymore. (I'm a native btw.) Ok. We were special to begin with but it's just getting worse. "Don't tell me what to do, don't ask me to do anything that will help people other than myself, and if you try, you're a sheep, don't take muh freedom, and we hate you for generations!" I swear to the Lord that people here have turned into Eric Cartman. "I don't care! I do what I WANT!" :huh: I am trying very hard to raise my kids to not be *kitten* and these are the role models we're getting.
If y'all think I'm sounding a bit exasperated, you're on the mark. 9 -
@GaleHawkins I always give you a hug because I am not the Thought Police.
When the chewing, gnawing and biting locusts show up on our doorsteps we'll do what we've always done. Look back at everything in hindsight and wish we'd done a better job of prognosticating instead of flying by the seat of our pants. We're human and we will always make mistakes.
Keep tooling along, Gale. Our mileage may always vary but variety is fun. Connection is fun. It's everything that I enjoy about this place. Come 'hail' or high water. 'Rona. Chewing, gnawing and biting locusts.
5
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