Coronavirus prep
Replies
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SummerSkier wrote: »So not sure if they will be opening up bars again in my county. It's a local decision but seems like if one county does and another doesn't it's sort of a waste. Because people will just drive a few miles to a wet county.
One thing about this whole crisis which I find interesting is that I hear of a lot more restrictions going into place in Europe again. And I hear folks saying = gotta go get my last meals out or visiting or whatever done BEFORE we lock down. In my mind it's seems like if your location is getting ready to lock down the LAST thing you would want to do is go be social? But maybe I just look at it from the standpoint of the REASON they are going to lock things down again is because the virus is spiking and hospitals are having a tough time so why would I risk being exposed? It must be human nature tho to think "it can't happen to me or my family".
You're right. If it's so bad that restrictions are coming soon, there's no point risking being infected just before the lockdown. Here it is so good that the authorities are scared to remove final restrictions so we don't suddenly start to see a bad situation develop.1 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »News blip said that 'Rona is triggering a reactivation of EBV. They can run tests. The reactivation is connected to inflammatory compounds only adding to C-19's symptoms. Sending it back into dormancy is not so easy.
In the beginning, it seemed to me like combination of rheumatic fever, SARS, EBV and MERS all rolled into one big sheetstorm.
Given that 95% of all people get mono in their life with 50% happening before the age of 5, a reactivation of EBV could impact lots os people. I wonder if there is any correlation between likelihood of reactivation and severity of original infection.
This concerns me. I had mono when I was thirteen. I honestly can’t remember being sicker, for such a long time, during my lifetime. I’m in Minnesota. We are currently in an uptick of cases. It’s been cold here, and windy with our first measurable snowfall predicted for today.4 -
missysippy930 wrote: »Diatonic12 wrote: »News blip said that 'Rona is triggering a reactivation of EBV. They can run tests. The reactivation is connected to inflammatory compounds only adding to C-19's symptoms. Sending it back into dormancy is not so easy.
In the beginning, it seemed to me like combination of rheumatic fever, SARS, EBV and MERS all rolled into one big sheetstorm.
Given that 95% of all people get mono in their life with 50% happening before the age of 5, a reactivation of EBV could impact lots os people. I wonder if there is any correlation between likelihood of reactivation and severity of original infection.
This concerns me. I had mono when I was thirteen. I honestly can’t remember being sicker, for such a long time, during my lifetime. I’m in Minnesota. We are currently in an uptick of cases. It’s been cold here, and windy with our first measurable snowfall predicted for today.
Mono is kind of crazy. I was thinking yesterday how in a way its character reminds me of COVID where for some they are so sick that diagnosis comes readily while for others there is no recognition that it is anything other than a cold.
My husband, myself and daughter's husband, all must have had mono while young because years ago when daughter became obviously sick with it over college break (caught it from now-husband's roommate) none of the three of us got ill. My son on the other hand got obviously sick at 29 or 30 and the docs could not figure out what he had. I recognized it quickly (he got it exactly like his sister) and made him ask for mono test. Doc's declined. I told him to demand. Yup, positive. They were shocked. Adulthood is not the norm.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Well, I'm back in full quarantine. An estimator who came to my house last week got sick the next day, took a covid test the day after that, the test came back positive on Saturday, and the company called me today to tell me.
Fortunately I had contactless grocery delivery on the intervening weekend, and I haven't been anywhere else except for solo walks, so I don't have to worry that I could have passed it on to anyone. And it's been almost a week since the contact, so I only have one more week to go. No symptoms so far (we were only together outside, both masked, and not even facing each other because we were looking at the house while we talked about what needed to be done, so I think my odds are pretty good).
Also glad I've replenished food, paper goods, etc. as the months have worn on.
stay well!0 -
missysippy930 wrote: »Diatonic12 wrote: »News blip said that 'Rona is triggering a reactivation of EBV. They can run tests. The reactivation is connected to inflammatory compounds only adding to C-19's symptoms. Sending it back into dormancy is not so easy.
In the beginning, it seemed to me like combination of rheumatic fever, SARS, EBV and MERS all rolled into one big sheetstorm.
Given that 95% of all people get mono in their life with 50% happening before the age of 5, a reactivation of EBV could impact lots os people. I wonder if there is any correlation between likelihood of reactivation and severity of original infection.
This concerns me. I had mono when I was thirteen. I honestly can’t remember being sicker, for such a long time, during my lifetime. I’m in Minnesota. We are currently in an uptick of cases. It’s been cold here, and windy with our first measurable snowfall predicted for today.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. As others have said, like 95% of the population has had EBV. A healthy immune system keeps it at bay. And I'm sure if someone gets Covid-19, that taxes the immune system temporarily.
I have a few bottles of AHCC around in case either my wife or I get Covid-19. AHCC is made from mushrooms and has been shown to boost the immune system and make your T Cells work more efficiently. I plan on not getting Covid-19. Do I know it will work? Heck no. But they just said Remdesivir doesn't work all that well either. Seems like, aside from vaccines, I'm batting about the same percentage as the R&D people. This task is like curing the common cold. And we haven't found a cure for that yet.
I'm looking at all the numbers all over the US and it's scary. But on the bright side, most of us don't have jobs where we are around unmasked people all day long and social interaction and wearing a mask are smart options that we'll follow. This Fall and Winter will be a very, very painful science lesson for many.
No matter who wins the election, there will be a very large proportion of the population and local governments that will refuse to enforce mask mandates. You just have to be hyper vigilant. Like Lynn was -- she was exposed to someone that tested positive but was outside and wore a mask. Very smart. Even if she got a bit of the Coronavirus, it would very likely be such a small viral load that it wouldn't matter, unless to give her a bit of protection.
As an update to Thanksgiving, I think we're going to tell my son not to come. He's been exposed to many friends and, like a lot of young people, just isn't taking precautions. He's not partying or going to bars either, but we just don't feel comfortable enough about his friends. Many science deniers among them.11 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »As an update to Thanksgiving, I think we're going to tell my son not to come. He's been exposed to many friends and, like a lot of young people, just isn't taking precautions. He's not partying or going to bars either, but we just don't feel comfortable enough about his friends. Many science deniers among them.
That's too bad, but I completely understand. Discretion is the better part of valor. As my extended family decided, it's ok to take a year off.
Our youngest daughter managed to test neg 3x while 3 roommates each tested positive--one asymptomatic and two were sick. Two weeks later, she caught it at a frat party. Symptomatic for almost 10 days. Now she's going to bars. I'm not sure if while home for 2 months she will raise our risk (not cautious) or reduce it (not infectious).5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »As an update to Thanksgiving, I think we're going to tell my son not to come. He's been exposed to many friends and, like a lot of young people, just isn't taking precautions. He's not partying or going to bars either, but we just don't feel comfortable enough about his friends. Many science deniers among them.
That's too bad, but I completely understand. Discretion is the better part of valor. As my extended family decided, it's ok to take a year off.
Our youngest daughter managed to test neg 3x while 3 roommates each tested positive--one asymptomatic and two were sick. Two weeks later, she caught it at a frat party. Symptomatic for almost 10 days. Now she's going to bars. I'm not sure if while home for 2 months she will raise our risk (not cautious) or reduce it (not infectious).
Unfortunately, there's still not enough known about possible re-infection to say if she'd be a risk to you.
There are not a lot of known cases of re-infection, but what they don't know is if you can still be a carrier of the virus, and transmit it to others, even if you don't get sick again or test positive again. We just don't know, so I think it would be responsible for everyone to still take all the recommended precautions, even if they have already had the virus.11 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Well, I'm back in full quarantine. An estimator who came to my house last week got sick the next day, took a covid test the day after that, the test came back positive on Saturday, and the company called me today to tell me.
Fortunately I had contactless grocery delivery on the intervening weekend, and I haven't been anywhere else except for solo walks, so I don't have to worry that I could have passed it on to anyone. And it's been almost a week since the contact, so I only have one more week to go. No symptoms so far (we were only together outside, both masked, and not even facing each other because we were looking at the house while we talked about what needed to be done, so I think my odds are pretty good).
Also glad I've replenished food, paper goods, etc. as the months have worn on.
stay well!
Thanks!3 -
It's kind of mind-boggling that people aren't willing to give up ONE year of holidays for the good of everybody. I am grateful that I live in a place where the majority of people are taking this seriously. Living with my 24 year old daughter who has put dating and socializing on hold hasn't been easy. She is restless, lonely, bored, fed up... like the rest of us. But she's also got friends who have been exposed to the virus, and friends who have had it. She's not taking any chances. She's a smart kid, but I can't help but remind her that it's not just her, but the rest of us in the house (me, her dad, and her 17 year old sister). I hate wearing a mask. But I would imagine I would hate a ventilator more.13
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We've received an invitation to the family Thanksgiving dinner. Minimum of 15 people, including 3 college students and one whose job takes him out into large crowds regularly. Only one of the families takes the virus seriously. DH said he wants to go. He hates the isolation and misses seeing his kids and grandchildren. I haven't responded to the invitation yet because I'm really doubtful about the safety. We have a month to see how the numbers go.9
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My family has decided to not have a large Thanksgiving gathering this year, in order to keep everyone safe.
We are going to get together in small pods to limit the exposure risks.
My parents are going to have my uncle over, who lives alone.
I'm going to my sister's house, since she's alone.
My husband will have his brother and sister over, since they are both alone.
It would obviously be the safest if we all just stayed home, but this way, at least no one is alone on Thanksgiving. We have a lot of single people in our family.13 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »It's kind of mind-boggling that people aren't willing to give up ONE year of holidays for the good of everybody. I am grateful that I live in a place where the majority of people are taking this seriously. Living with my 24 year old daughter who has put dating and socializing on hold hasn't been easy. She is restless, lonely, bored, fed up... like the rest of us. But she's also got friends who have been exposed to the virus, and friends who have had it. She's not taking any chances. She's a smart kid, but I can't help but remind her that it's not just her, but the rest of us in the house (me, her dad, and her 17 year old sister). I hate wearing a mask. But I would imagine I would hate a ventilator more.
But if this is the last year for some of those people? I think it's mindboggling that people are voluntarily giving up opportunities to be with their families during the holidays. I can see being careful or limiting crowds - not inviting as many, maybe doing multiple ones instead, but I can't see just giving it all up. My family is going to do our regular immediate family Thanksgiving the Sunday before - so my parents, siblings and I with our kids, instead of an extended birthday party (ie my family and my husbands) we are going to just have my family (including our elderly grandmother so she doesn't miss it) together for cake. But with my sister diagnosed with a very aggressive cancer that has spread I'm not willing to pass up the holidays with her - will I be cautious? ABSOLUTELY. But I'm also not going to not see her knowing this could very well be the last Christmas with her or even with my elderly grandmother either. We aren't guaranteed tomorrow or next year, we shouldn't throw away opportunities over a virus that the vast majority of people survive.11 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »It's kind of mind-boggling that people aren't willing to give up ONE year of holidays for the good of everybody. I am grateful that I live in a place where the majority of people are taking this seriously. Living with my 24 year old daughter who has put dating and socializing on hold hasn't been easy. She is restless, lonely, bored, fed up... like the rest of us. But she's also got friends who have been exposed to the virus, and friends who have had it. She's not taking any chances. She's a smart kid, but I can't help but remind her that it's not just her, but the rest of us in the house (me, her dad, and her 17 year old sister). I hate wearing a mask. But I would imagine I would hate a ventilator more.
I understand your point, but it sounds like you are lucky enough to live with your family. For those living alone, or separated from their parents or children, it's tough to imagine not seeing them for months or even a year.5 -
I live within 3 miles of five sisters and their families, as well as my elderly parents. But, my risk of getting or giving them the virus is the same as if we were strangers. I totally understand how one family's needs might be different than my own, but for MY family, we are OK giving this up. I have seen my parents a handful of times, outside, at a distance. To think I may have given one of them their last hug is heartbreaking. I'm also "watching the numbers" and following the trends-gyms, bars/restaurants, and small indoor gatherings, typically family parties. I'd never, ever forgive myself if I hosted an event that spread this through my family.9
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girlwithcurls2 wrote: »I live within 3 miles of five sisters and their families, as well as my elderly parents. But, my risk of getting or giving them the virus is the same as if we were strangers. I totally understand how one family's needs might be different than my own, but for MY family, we are OK giving this up. I have seen my parents a handful of times, outside, at a distance. To think I may have given one of them their last hug is heartbreaking. I'm also "watching the numbers" and following the trends-gyms, bars/restaurants, and small indoor gatherings, typically family parties. I'd never, ever forgive myself if I hosted an event that spread this through my family.
But (legit question) will you forgive yourself if they should pass and you didn't see them/spend time with them while they were here? Is it really worth the heartache of not being around family if something should happen to them? I'd personally find it cold comfort that hey at least I didn't give them covid! Not making light of the fact that some people have concerns about covid and that some people are more likely to die from getting it but to me all the things we are giving up or being asked to give up is worse than the disease or risk of disease.8 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »It's kind of mind-boggling that people aren't willing to give up ONE year of holidays for the good of everybody. I am grateful that I live in a place where the majority of people are taking this seriously. Living with my 24 year old daughter who has put dating and socializing on hold hasn't been easy. She is restless, lonely, bored, fed up... like the rest of us. But she's also got friends who have been exposed to the virus, and friends who have had it. She's not taking any chances. She's a smart kid, but I can't help but remind her that it's not just her, but the rest of us in the house (me, her dad, and her 17 year old sister). I hate wearing a mask. But I would imagine I would hate a ventilator more.
There's sort of a reverse double whammy here, though. I'm in your camp as far as making the cautious decision.
But I think the stress level makes people ache even more than usual to reach out for comfort and the security of family, in kind of subtle, inchoate ways. On top of that, the pandemic - for some - brings home the always-truth that there may not be a next year.
I'm planning to stay home alone for Thanksgiving and (I expect) Christmas. I'm OK with that for myself, and don't expect to be depressed or otherwise negatively affected. At the same time, with the SIL/BIL with whom I usually gather at holidays now in the 80s and both experiencing serious health issues with increasing frequency . . . there really might not be a next year with them. I hope that proves wrong, but it's a real potential.
These kinds of subtle psychological issues have a different pull on each individual. I still support the "stay home in your bubble this year" strategy as objectively the best idea for most people, but recognize that is not easy for lots of people, and much harder for some than others.10 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »I live within 3 miles of five sisters and their families, as well as my elderly parents. But, my risk of getting or giving them the virus is the same as if we were strangers. I totally understand how one family's needs might be different than my own, but for MY family, we are OK giving this up. I have seen my parents a handful of times, outside, at a distance. To think I may have given one of them their last hug is heartbreaking. I'm also "watching the numbers" and following the trends-gyms, bars/restaurants, and small indoor gatherings, typically family parties. I'd never, ever forgive myself if I hosted an event that spread this through my family.
But (legit question) will you forgive yourself if they should pass and you didn't see them/spend time with them while they were here? Is it really worth the heartache of not being around family if something should happen to them? I'd personally find it cold comfort that hey at least I didn't give them covid! Not making light of the fact that some people have concerns about covid and that some people are more likely to die from getting it but to me all the things we are giving up or being asked to give up is worse than the disease or risk of disease.
I couldn't forgive myself if I gave COVID to one of my high-risk family members and they got very ill or died.
If they died of other causes, I would still have all the many, many years of celebrations and holidays to remember.
It would not weigh on me that I didn't see them for their "last one".
For me, it is not worth the risk.23 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »I live within 3 miles of five sisters and their families, as well as my elderly parents. But, my risk of getting or giving them the virus is the same as if we were strangers. I totally understand how one family's needs might be different than my own, but for MY family, we are OK giving this up. I have seen my parents a handful of times, outside, at a distance. To think I may have given one of them their last hug is heartbreaking. I'm also "watching the numbers" and following the trends-gyms, bars/restaurants, and small indoor gatherings, typically family parties. I'd never, ever forgive myself if I hosted an event that spread this through my family.
But (legit question) will you forgive yourself if they should pass and you didn't see them/spend time with them while they were here? Is it really worth the heartache of not being around family if something should happen to them? I'd personally find it cold comfort that hey at least I didn't give them covid! Not making light of the fact that some people have concerns about covid and that some people are more likely to die from getting it but to me all the things we are giving up or being asked to give up is worse than the disease or risk of disease.
I can't imagine a lot worse than knowing my grandmother or high risk little sister died because I wasn't willing to do video chat. Let's be clear: what we're asking these people to give up is their literal life. How is putting a pause on family visits worse than their death?
If I had to NEVER see my sister in person again to keep her safe, I'd agree in an instant. The kind of logic that would insist that my desire to see her in person outweighs her interest in continued life doesn't make sense at all especially when most of the people involved in situations like this do have access to tools to help keep us connected, even at a distance.21 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »I live within 3 miles of five sisters and their families, as well as my elderly parents. But, my risk of getting or giving them the virus is the same as if we were strangers. I totally understand how one family's needs might be different than my own, but for MY family, we are OK giving this up. I have seen my parents a handful of times, outside, at a distance. To think I may have given one of them their last hug is heartbreaking. I'm also "watching the numbers" and following the trends-gyms, bars/restaurants, and small indoor gatherings, typically family parties. I'd never, ever forgive myself if I hosted an event that spread this through my family.
But (legit question) will you forgive yourself if they should pass and you didn't see them/spend time with them while they were here? Is it really worth the heartache of not being around family if something should happen to them? I'd personally find it cold comfort that hey at least I didn't give them covid! Not making light of the fact that some people have concerns about covid and that some people are more likely to die from getting it but to me all the things we are giving up or being asked to give up is worse than the disease or risk of disease.
My husband is at high risk while he is doing chemo. We have a lot of relatives who usually get together for holidays. Almost all of them have suggested we do virtual holidays this year (there are a couple who disagree) because it's not worth the risk to him. If they don't get to spend in-person time with him, they still have memories of fun times we had, and spending time virtually is still spending time. We want to keep him around as long as possible and aren't going to chance shortening his life.
So yes, the people in our lives who love us will forgive themselves if he passes before they get to see him in person and know they did all they could to keep him safe.
The few relatives who disagree (I think there are 3), can all get together if they want.21 -
If I didn't see my parents over the holidays and then they unexpectedly died, I would be extra sad because I hadn't seen them.
If I spent the holidays with them and gave them covid, and they ended up very sick or dead, I would never be able to forgive myself. Ever.
We all have to make calculations of risk and reward and I would hope people are understanding they need to include the risk to other people in that equation. I am avoiding my parents far more due to the risk to them, though I am also trying to protect myself as well. It seems like many of the long haulers and folks suffering inflammatory damage to heart, lungs, blood vessels, and kidneys are in their 30s and 40s and I don't have good enough health insurance for that crap.28 -
I wish there were more acknowledgement of diseases and conditions that have a far higher risk factor of death during this pandemic. My 94 year old grandmother died alone in a nursing home in the middle of this, not having been able to see her family for 6 weeks. We saw her through the window and talked in the phone, but she was always a very touchy feely person and even before the pandemic felt the lack of touch even we frequently visited her. Remember, infants can actually die from lack of touch. It affects adults profoundly too. She died in her sleep not from COVID, having largely lost the will to live, while being so isolated with no end in sight.
My father has advanced Alzheimer’s and truly suffered from the initial isolation. He couldn’t understand why we all abandoned him in his eyes, refused to hug him and wore masks, which terrify him. Finally my mother put her foot down and said she wasn’t going to waste the little time he has left, making him feel scared and abandoned. How horrible we would feel if that’s the way his life ended in fear and loneliness.
What about special needs kids who aren’t getting the therapy they so desperately need in person? Each year is critical for them, having lost it, they can’t regain ground and will suffer for a long time because of this.
There’s also a risk in driving yet people choose to take that risk every day.
I wish there were more acknowledgement of the nuances of this situation. Full disclosure, my brother in law is a hospital physician who works every day with COVID patients in two different hospitals. He is really annoyed at how people are freaking out so much about COVID while ignoring how much people are affected who suffer from other diseases that are barely acknowledged.
There’s a lot of politics involved.23 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »I wish there were more acknowledgement of diseases and conditions that have a far higher risk factor of death during this pandemic. My 94 year old grandmother died alone in a nursing home in the middle of this, not having been able to see her family for 6 weeks. We saw her through the window and talked in the phone, but she was always a very touchy feely person and even before the pandemic felt the lack of touch even we frequently visited her. Remember, infants can actually die from lack of touch. It affects adults profoundly too. She died in her sleep not from COVID, having largely lost the will to live, while being so isolated with no end in sight.
My father has advanced Alzheimer’s and truly suffered from the initial isolation. He couldn’t understand why we all abandoned him in his eyes, refused to hug him and wore masks, which terrify him. Finally my mother put her foot down and said she wasn’t going to waste the little time he has left, making him feel scared and abandoned. How horrible we would feel if that’s the way his life ended in fear and loneliness.
What about special needs kids who aren’t getting the therapy they so desperately need in person? Each year is critical for them, having lost it, they can’t regain ground and will suffer for a long time because of this.
There’s also a risk in driving yet people choose to take that risk every day.
I wish there were more acknowledgement of the nuances of this situation. Full disclosure, my brother in law is a hospital physician who works every day with COVID patients in two different hospitals. He is really annoyed at how people are freaking out so much about COVID while ignoring how much people are affected who suffer from other diseases that are barely acknowledged.
There’s a lot of politics involved.
I think this is a side that is not talked about enough. Thank you!2 -
I’m so sorry for your loss, and happy your mom got your father’s health team to be reasonable.gracegettingittogether wrote: »I wish there were more acknowledgement of diseases and conditions that have a far higher risk factor of death during this pandemic. My 94 year old grandmother died alone in a nursing home in the middle of this, not having been able to see her family for 6 weeks. We saw her through the window and talked in the phone, but she was always a very touchy feely person and even before the pandemic felt the lack of touch even we frequently visited her. Remember, infants can actually die from lack of touch. It affects adults profoundly too. She died in her sleep not from COVID, having largely lost the will to live, while being so isolated with no end in sight.
My father has advanced Alzheimer’s and truly suffered from the initial isolation. He couldn’t understand why we all abandoned him in his eyes, refused to hug him and wore masks, which terrify him. Finally my mother put her foot down and said she wasn’t going to waste the little time he has left, making him feel scared and abandoned. How horrible we would feel if that’s the way his life ended in fear and loneliness.
What about special needs kids who aren’t getting the therapy they so desperately need in person? Each year is critical for them, having lost it, they can’t regain ground and will suffer for a long time because of this.
There’s also a risk in driving yet people choose to take that risk every day.
I wish there were more acknowledgement of the nuances of this situation. Full disclosure, my brother in law is a hospital physician who works every day with COVID patients in two different hospitals. He is really annoyed at how people are freaking out so much about COVID while ignoring how much people are affected who suffer from other diseases that are barely acknowledged.
There’s a lot of politics involved.
I was reading an article about a man whose wife has Alzheimer’s just the other day. They live in the same nursing home but aren’t allowed to see each other. The situation with dementia patients is just so tragic. I think your mom is right, it doesn’t make sense to waste what good time they have left for the sake of a Covid free future by which time they may have forgotten their loved ones.
Someone like your grandmother to me is an edge case - on the one hand, a very elderly person doesn’t have much time to waste - but on the other hand, you don’t want to risk the life of someone who might have another five years of good living for the sake of a few months. Obviously, in retrospect, this wasn’t the right decision, but hindsight is 20/20. In an alternate universe you could all be feeling guilty following her death from Covid. There just aren’t good options. And it is scary the way Covid burns through care homes once it gets in.
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gracegettingittogether wrote: »I wish there were more acknowledgement of diseases and conditions that have a far higher risk factor of death during this pandemic. My 94 year old grandmother died alone in a nursing home in the middle of this, not having been able to see her family for 6 weeks. We saw her through the window and talked in the phone, but she was always a very touchy feely person and even before the pandemic felt the lack of touch even we frequently visited her. Remember, infants can actually die from lack of touch. It affects adults profoundly too. She died in her sleep not from COVID, having largely lost the will to live, while being so isolated with no end in sight.
My father has advanced Alzheimer’s and truly suffered from the initial isolation. He couldn’t understand why we all abandoned him in his eyes, refused to hug him and wore masks, which terrify him. Finally my mother put her foot down and said she wasn’t going to waste the little time he has left, making him feel scared and abandoned. How horrible we would feel if that’s the way his life ended in fear and loneliness.
What about special needs kids who aren’t getting the therapy they so desperately need in person? Each year is critical for them, having lost it, they can’t regain ground and will suffer for a long time because of this.
There’s also a risk in driving yet people choose to take that risk every day.
I wish there were more acknowledgement of the nuances of this situation. Full disclosure, my brother in law is a hospital physician who works every day with COVID patients in two different hospitals. He is really annoyed at how people are freaking out so much about COVID while ignoring how much people are affected who suffer from other diseases that are barely acknowledged.
There’s a lot of politics involved.
My BIL's mom is 92 and in assisted living, hadn't been able to have physical contact with anyone since March. She worked a full time job until age 90 because she loved being around people. The facility finally let residents get out. A small group of us isolated for 2 weeks and had a birthday party for her and my own MIL who was turning 91 and lives at home.
During the day my BIL's mom would break out in tears randomly. We asked what was wrong and she said she was just so happy to be around family.
Firmly believe the isolation is literally killing people.15 -
Yes, it is. There are also many people dying because they aren’t able to get the care they need for their chronic diseases because of hospitals closing because of stopping non emergency procedures. It does make me angry when people say it’s all worth it, if it saves one life...one life from COVID that is. Do all the other lives lost from canceled cancer screenings, inability to book needed scheduled procedures, suicides, overdosing from depression and anxiety due to isolation and inability to get to mental health groups just not count them? Why not? Are their lives not as important just because they don’t have the ‘in’ disease?
The thing is in medicine, there’s almost always side effects. But somehow, that doesn’t seem to apply because it’s been overtaken by politics, which doesn’t like nuances. It’s called the art of medicine precisely because there are nuances! People die when we ignore that.9 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »girlwithcurls2 wrote: »I live within 3 miles of five sisters and their families, as well as my elderly parents. But, my risk of getting or giving them the virus is the same as if we were strangers. I totally understand how one family's needs might be different than my own, but for MY family, we are OK giving this up. I have seen my parents a handful of times, outside, at a distance. To think I may have given one of them their last hug is heartbreaking. I'm also "watching the numbers" and following the trends-gyms, bars/restaurants, and small indoor gatherings, typically family parties. I'd never, ever forgive myself if I hosted an event that spread this through my family.
But (legit question) will you forgive yourself if they should pass and you didn't see them/spend time with them while they were here? Is it really worth the heartache of not being around family if something should happen to them? I'd personally find it cold comfort that hey at least I didn't give them covid! Not making light of the fact that some people have concerns about covid and that some people are more likely to die from getting it but to me all the things we are giving up or being asked to give up is worse than the disease or risk of disease.
I couldn't forgive myself if I gave COVID to one of my high-risk family members and they got very ill or died.
If they died of other causes, I would still have all the many, many years of celebrations and holidays to remember.
It would not weigh on me that I didn't see them for their "last one".
For me, it is not worth the risk.
This is exactly how I feel.7 -
@gracegettingittogether There are certainly people suffering from the isolation. Unfortunately we did an awful job of reacting to covid in the beginning and too many people refuse to take simple common sense public health actions. So now we have to choose between hundreds of thousands mor people dying of or struggling with a contagious virus, or continuing to leave vulnerable people in isolation.
I have a co-worker who has a lung condition, so is at very high risk for covid. She has not been able to leave her neighborhood since March (other than doctor appts) because anytime her husband tried to take her anywhere there are people without masks and people congregating.
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope more people will be willing to do what's necessary so this doesn't have to be so hard on everyone who is trying to do the right thing.14 -
The thing is though, is that thousands of people are dying because of the precautions being taken for COVID. What I’m trying to say is that the right thing to do just isn’t so simple. Either way, many, many people die. There is no easy choice.
I would like to see an analysis done of the impact the COVID precautions are having because I suspect that the unintended consequences are much, much worse than are popularly acknowledged. I’m not saying have no precautions, but I would like to see a much more nuanced discussion about the risks vs benefits of COVID precautions. All we hear preached now are the benefits. I’m saying there are real risks which are killing people as we speak. It’s hard to read people being smug,(not you) and wonder why people don’t just do the “right thing”, when there is widespread suffering and death resulting.
There is no one right way. Every approach will be flawed. And I wish that would be more acknowledged.8 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »Yes, it is. There are also many people dying because they aren’t able to get the care they need for their chronic diseases because of hospitals closing because of stopping non emergency procedures. It does make me angry when people say it’s all worth it, if it saves one life...one life from COVID that is. Do all the other lives lost from canceled cancer screenings, inability to book needed scheduled procedures, suicides, overdosing from depression and anxiety due to isolation and inability to get to mental health groups just not count them? Why not? Are their lives not as important just because they don’t have the ‘in’ disease?
The thing is in medicine, there’s almost always side effects. But somehow, that doesn’t seem to apply because it’s been overtaken by politics, which doesn’t like nuances. It’s called the art of medicine precisely because there are nuances! People die when we ignore that.
Yeah. Surgery cancellations and suspensions have been an issue here. Wait times were already on the ridiculous side for certain procedures and now they're getting outrageous. Grandma needs a new knee so she won't have to live every waking moment in pain? Tough titties. Try again in a year or two. Here's a morphine addiction to tide her over.
Hell, even routine lab work is backed up a mile.4 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »The thing is though, is that thousands of people are dying because of the precautions being taken for COVID. What I’m trying to say is that the right thing to do just isn’t so simple. Either way, many, many people die. There is no easy choice.
I would like to see an analysis done of the impact the COVID precautions are having because I suspect that the unintended consequences are much, much worse than are popularly acknowledged. I’m not saying have no precautions, but I would like to see a much more nuanced discussion about the risks vs benefits of COVID precautions. All we hear preached now are the benefits. I’m saying there are real risks which are killing people as we speak. It’s hard to read people being smug,(not you) and wonder why people don’t just do the “right thing”, when there is widespread suffering and death resulting.
There is no one right way. Every approach will be flawed. And I wish that would be more acknowledged.
I think you just haven't found a forum that leans that way.7
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