Coronavirus prep
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Our state has directed no reusable grocey bags and all the stores have large signs reflecting this guidance. Going through the store a couple had their entire cart filled with stuff in reusable bags..
Hopefully cashier tells them sorry can't check out.
From a practical standpoint I don't see how that would help anything if the goods were already in the reusable bags (I'm assuming this is a store with scanners that customers use, since they had already put the food their bags -- I've never seen anybody packing the stuff into their bags if they're going to have to take them out to be rung up.)
Tramsferring the goods to disposable bags just forces the store staff to handle them, increasing the risk of transferring germs. And if you're suggesting the customers be told to empty their bags and not buy them at all, how does that help anything? Not everything is packaged in a way that it could be disinfected to be resold, so the store would have to toss it, forcing the store to lose inventory and increase prices to make up for it. And for what could be disinfected, that also increases the store's costs (disinfecting solutions and staff time), so prices go up there as well for no practical benefit.
There's no government mandate on reusable bags in my area, and stores are taking different approaches. Some say no reusable bags, others don't. I can't see the practical benefit of banning them, since the stores are disinfecting the carts between customers anyway.
I use reusable bags where I'm allowed, for improved general food safety, since I have insulated reusable bags. No point of surviving COVID if I've died of food poisoning because my food is at room temperature (and summer heat) too long. Where they don't allow reusable bags, I usually just wheel the cart with the unbagged groceries out to the lot and put them into the reusable bags that I keep in my car.
But yesterday I shopped at a Whole Foods in an urbanized retail area where I had to park in a garage in the next block so I had to use the paper bags they require customers to use instead of reusable bags for now. I lost about five dollars worth of cut fruit when I got home and lifted the paper bags out of the car, splitting open the plastic container of fruit and spilling it on the street.
If I thought the reusable bags were a risk factor, I wouldn't be in favor of putting the bagged items back on the shelf. The practical option would be to remind them that those bags are currently a no-no, but sell them their items.
Reusable bags aren't welcome in our usual grocery store, either. It just means we do the extra step of dropping the plastic bags into our reusable bags before we stow the groceries in the trunk. The reusable bags are far stronger and the handles facilitate a single trip from trunk to door. Just because the grocery store won't touch our reusable bags doesn't mean we can't use them, ourselves.5 -
Hey y'all - You are doing a great job of keeping political / divisive topics out of this discussion, and I know it's hard to do so especially with all that is going on right now. I have been really impressed with you guys. I just wanted to post a gentle reminder about the guideline that prohibits discussion of divisive topics in the community. I struggled with whether to butt in with the reminder, but figured it wouldn't hurt.
Community guidelines are located here. The particular guideline I'm talking about is:12. Divisive topics work best in groups
I WILL:
I will use groups to post divisive topics.
I will be proud of my diversity and respectful of the diversity of our global community.
I will ask myself if my discussion is relevant only to a particular group, for example, a specific religion or political view, and post that content in an appropriate group.
I WON'T:
I won’t post divisive topics in the main forums.
I won’t exclude any groups when posting in the main forums.
I won’t post politics in the main forums.
PM me if you have any questions or comments, or if you prefer, any moderator or staff member can be reached via PM to discuss community guidelines.
Stay safe,
Em8 -
Happy, Happy Father's Day
In all the things we try to do
Your kids want to be just like you
We watch every move you make
We try to take every step you take
We used to be sort of small
But when we were with you
We felt 10 feet tall
We all want to be brave and smart
'Cause we love you Dads
With all our hearts2 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »About Trump, Tulsa, and corona.
On June 19th, Tulsa county had reported 2070 corona cases since the pandemic started. Tulsa town spills out into other counties, but we report by county, and Tulsa town is mainly in Tulsa county. 721 of those cases were reported within the last 2 weeks, so an average of 51.5 people per day. 125 of those were reported on June 19th, 136 more were reported on June 20.
6 people who came to Tulsa early to set up for the Trump rally tested positive for corona.
How many Trump people took the virus home with them, and how many Tulsa people caught it from Trump people.
Pictures show many people without masks and very little social distancing.
Why shut down so many businesses to keep people from coming into direct contact with each other, then get together a group
Of several thousand people in one building, sitting next to each other?
Social distancing or not? If so, why? If not, why shut down business? Please help me understand.
When I expressed this point months ago, many reminded me that the point never was to stop the spread. It was to slow the spread / flatten the curve to give the healthcare system sufficient time to prepare. Except our healthcare system is no better prepared than it was in Feb. and Mar.
This to me is the crux of the issue. The point of flattening the curve is to take pressure off the healthcare system AND to buy time to set up policies and procedures to deal better with the outbreak. Here in the US we did the first part and not the second. So other than some tennuous medical advances, FL TX and AZ are no better prepared for their first wave than NY was for theirs. And we have no strategy for how to handle a second wave in states that have successfully beaten back the first wave.
We should've been developing national protocols for data collection, treatment, contact tracing, triggers for future local shutdowns, strict guidelines for nursing homes, medical pandemic committees, etc and instead we're still arguing about whether Walmart can force you to wear a mask inside their stores. It's tragic.
Many of the people I know who were being careful are starting to lose their patience, mostly because they feel like theyre getting mixed messages and they don't personally know anyone whose gotten sick. Unfortunately this is another case where not knowing how to vet sources leaves smart people thinking there is no consensus, and there's no one trusted figure standing up and getting everyone rowing in the same direction.
To the bolded, I'm unclear whether it was part of the experts' intent up front - though I expect it was: Slowing things down has also allowed for a lot of both formal research and experiential best-practice guidelines to evolve in the treatment realm. Those things should help save lives in later waves, or incontinuations of the current wave; and perhaps also reduce transmission somewhat.
I'm thinking about things like when to use oxygen and when to use ventilators, how to share ventilators between 2 people (not ideal, but potentially helpful if supplies are again short), the protocols now in place for isolating possibly-infected people from probably-uninfected ones in health care facilities**, and that sort of thing.
** A local example I found interesting was that here, a hospital system has set up a multi-lane drive-through lab facility in a former Sears auto repair building. It's really popular/busy, so far. Some of my immunocompromised friends really appreciate that they can go get the essential blood draws to monitor complex health conditions, without even having to get out of their car. Obviously, there's still contact with at least one suited-up lab tech, but very limited contact with anyone else or things others recently breathed on/touched.3 -
That is interesting reusable bags are not allowed in your stores. Here they are encouraged.
At wegmans they suggest using the scan app. It is AWESOME! It is so much faster and easier. You just log into the app when you get to the store and scan your own groceries as you go and put them into your reusable bags. Then you go through the self checkout and just scan the screen and it loads your order and you pay and are done. No human contact at all.
I am really amazed they are doing this because it is completely based on honesty that you scan and pay for everything. Wegmans is awesome.
We are still required to wear masks in all buildings here and I see everyone wearing masks. However I work in healthcare and when we are in the small office and break room, everyone takes their masks off.
I am surprised, but very happy that majority of people I see have been continuing to wear masks everywhere even though our cases have been trending down in NY.4 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »That is interesting reusable bags are not allowed in your stores. Here they are encouraged.
At wegmans they suggest using the scan app. It is AWESOME! It is so much faster and easier. You just log into the app when you get to the store and scan your own groceries as you go and put them into your reusable bags. Then you go through the self checkout and just scan the screen and it loads your order and you pay and are done. No human contact at all.
I am really amazed they are doing this because it is completely based on honesty that you scan and pay for everything. Wegmans is awesome.
We are still required to wear masks in all buildings here and I see everyone wearing masks. However I work in healthcare and when we are in the small office and break room, everyone takes their masks off.
I am surprised, but very happy that majority of people I see have been continuing to wear masks everywhere even though our cases have been trending down in NY.
The reusable bags were encouraged up until the virus hit, then they were outlawed.
And to to honest, the scan and pay is not based on trust. Retailers have various ways of checking and/or passing the additional theft costs on to everyone.
https://www.grocerydive.com/news/theft-is-a-major-risk-for-retailers-using-scan-and-go-expert-says/563702/
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »corinasue1143 wrote: »About Trump, Tulsa, and corona.
On June 19th, Tulsa county had reported 2070 corona cases since the pandemic started. Tulsa town spills out into other counties, but we report by county, and Tulsa town is mainly in Tulsa county. 721 of those cases were reported within the last 2 weeks, so an average of 51.5 people per day. 125 of those were reported on June 19th, 136 more were reported on June 20.
6 people who came to Tulsa early to set up for the Trump rally tested positive for corona.
How many Trump people took the virus home with them, and how many Tulsa people caught it from Trump people.
Pictures show many people without masks and very little social distancing.
Why shut down so many businesses to keep people from coming into direct contact with each other, then get together a group
Of several thousand people in one building, sitting next to each other?
Social distancing or not? If so, why? If not, why shut down business? Please help me understand.
When I expressed this point months ago, many reminded me that the point never was to stop the spread. It was to slow the spread / flatten the curve to give the healthcare system sufficient time to prepare. Except our healthcare system is no better prepared than it was in Feb. and Mar.
This to me is the crux of the issue. The point of flattening the curve is to take pressure off the healthcare system AND to buy time to set up policies and procedures to deal better with the outbreak. Here in the US we did the first part and not the second. So other than some tennuous medical advances, FL TX and AZ are no better prepared for their first wave than NY was for theirs. And we have no strategy for how to handle a second wave in states that have successfully beaten back the first wave.
We should've been developing national protocols for data collection, treatment, contact tracing, triggers for future local shutdowns, strict guidelines for nursing homes, medical pandemic committees, etc and instead we're still arguing about whether Walmart can force you to wear a mask inside their stores. It's tragic.
Many of the people I know who were being careful are starting to lose their patience, mostly because they feel like theyre getting mixed messages and they don't personally know anyone whose gotten sick. Unfortunately this is another case where not knowing how to vet sources leaves smart people thinking there is no consensus, and there's no one trusted figure standing up and getting everyone rowing in the same direction.
To the bolded, I'm unclear whether it was part of the experts' intent up front - though I expect it was: Slowing things down has also allowed for a lot of both formal research and experiential best-practice guidelines to evolve in the treatment realm. Those things should help save lives in later waves, or incontinuations of the current wave; and perhaps also reduce transmission somewhat.
I'm thinking about things like when to use oxygen and when to use ventilators, how to share ventilators between 2 people (not ideal, but potentially helpful if supplies are again short), the protocols now in place for isolating possibly-infected people from probably-uninfected ones in health care facilities**, and that sort of thing.
** A local example I found interesting was that here, a hospital system has set up a multi-lane drive-through lab facility in a former Sears auto repair building. It's really popular/busy, so far. Some of my immunocompromised friends really appreciate that they can go get the essential blood draws to monitor complex health conditions, without even having to get out of their car. Obviously, there's still contact with at least one suited-up lab tech, but very limited contact with anyone else or things others recently breathed on/touched.
Absolutely. If I have to eventually get this thing, I'd much rather get it now than 3 months ago. My post kind of glossed over that. And the medical community is doing a remarkable job on this so far! I think at least the well funded hospital systems are as well prepared now as anywhere in the world to deal with covid cases
But I'd rather not get it at all (especially considering some of the bizarre long term complications in some folks who don't fit the risk profile), and I think I'd have a much better chance of that if we had used the time wisely. If you look at most other developed countries, their cases line graphs show a quick spike followed by an equally fast drop and settling at a small weekly number of cases. The US has a quick spike and then a long plateau right up toward the top of the initial spike.
Anyhoo, I am profoundly privileged that I can work from home and essentially stay in my hidey-hole as long as I feel like I need to most likely, other than perhaps exacerbating my position as the black sheep of the family
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Still hardly anyone wearing masks in stores, and florida is about to close again. Getting scared.7
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Thanks @galehawkins for the reminder to take my probiotics. Someone suggested earlier that if you weren’t sure if you needed a multivitamin or not, now just might be a good time to experiment and take one, so I am.
Here, since Corona hit, you can use reusable grocery bags, but you can’t put them on the counter, you have to leave them
In your basket and bag your groceries yourself, so no one touches them but you.
As for hospitals, we had over 4,000 empty beds available when the pandemic started, and we have over 4000 empty beds now. But God help you if you need a Dr. or to go to the hospital. And I mean that quite sincerely. I don’t think our medical community has learned much yet. I’m sure there are exceptions. But everything I’ve seen, heard, and experienced says don’t get sick in Oklahoma now.
So thank you again Gale. I’ll take my vitamins, probiotics, eat healthy, get some exercise, and try to avoid corona and her friends.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »Our state has directed no reusable grocey bags and all the stores have large signs reflecting this guidance. Going through the store a couple had their entire cart filled with stuff in reusable bags..
Hopefully cashier tells them sorry can't check out.
Some of our stores are spraying the reusable bags on entry, just as they spray our hands as we enter the building.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Our state has directed no reusable grocey bags and all the stores have large signs reflecting this guidance. Going through the store a couple had their entire cart filled with stuff in reusable bags..
Hopefully cashier tells them sorry can't check out.
Some of our stores are spraying the reusable bags on entry, just as they spray our hands as we enter the building.
Haven't heard of spraying hands when entering a store. I'd think that would be an issue should someone show up as allergic to something in the spray they use.4 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask
) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to.
They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
I want to underscore this after some subsequent posts:
Truly, the information I'm reading/hearing lately is suggesting that length of exposure to an affected person is one important variable, along with others like proximity, and conditions (masks, airflow, etc.). That's why the "15 minute" idea comes into assessing statistical probability of infection. Length of contact changes the odds of transmission meaningfully, IMU.
IIRC, the interview whose link I posted earlier (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk) was one that made this point.
Essentially, an epidemiologist (I think that one in that interview) said that people are imagining the virus as a sort of particle that kind of hops off one person (via droplets/mist kind of thing) in passing or at random, and that's it, you're infected. But it's more realistic (as I understand it) to think of it as needing to get to a certain viral load in the exposure, a certain volume of viral particles. Oversimplifying, that can happen in brief time if (say) an unmasked infected person sneezes or yells right at my unmasked face, or it can happen if I sit a few feet away from someone in an indoor area for a longer time period with the ventilation/breeze directing their exhalates toward me, so that viral bits accumulate gradually over a period of time.
Sure, without contact tracing apps, we don't know who was passing by us at the grocery store, so we can't contact and warn them. But, as a practical matter, and statistically speaking, those contacts are at a much lower risk than (say) the title company agent who sat across the table from us for half an hour at the closing for our house purchase/sale, if we turn out to be infected (or they do).
I'm not an expert, just my understanding, blah blah blah all standard disclaimers.
I guess this explains the logic behind our churches being allowed to reopen with shorter services and wider spaces between persons. Less time in close contact.1 -
corinasue1143 wrote: »I just went to Lowe’s where I think every single person I saw had on a mask. Didn’t find what I wanted so I went to Lowe’s 10 miles away. I was the only shopper there with a mask. One employee had hers around her neck and one had hers sitting on her chin, just barely below her mouth. What’s up with people?
People get tired of being careful. If there's a second or third round of this virus, we'll all have to learn to do the right things again.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Ate at Los Portales for lunch with wife, kids and daughter in law for first dine in event since things went bat crazy. Some of the staff were wearing masks but not one person dining was wearing a mask. There were some missing tables.
Obviously not possible to dine with a mask on. The stipulations for restaurants reopening here included greater distancing, so some tables had to be removed, and less diners accommodated in the same space.3 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I have not seen any arrows at stores. Like others, I am concerned that would send me to areas of the store I wouldn't otherwise visit. As a carnivore, I don't visit most aisles anyway. I go to the meat section (usually in the back of stores) and often the frozen meat section (some have it in the back or side and other stores have it in frozen aisles). The only aisles (aside from frozen) I need to visit usually are for non-groceries... cat food, cleaning supplies. No need to go down every single aisle.
We don't have directional arrows. Just 6 foot spaced markers on the floor going towards the cashiers.1 -
We were out and about a little today for Father’s Day. Pulling into the mall parking lot for Bass Pro Shops and seeing all the cars was unnerving and I think hubby was hesitant, but we drove nearly and hour and a half to get there... thankfully BPS wasn’t as visibly busy as we feared once inside. So many empty shelves though! He didn’t get several things he went specifically for... the guy said they get around 200 rod/reel combos and sell nearly that many the same day! (Were looking for 20 for a donation for a children’s home). Only a couple tackle boxes on the shelves, life jackets in smaller sizes were sparse (our older two needed to size up), trying to remember some of the other areas we noticed.
Masks required, and most people were actually wearing them properly! I am finding that I truly am having trouble with them though. I started getting light headed and dizzy in the store, I walked around holding the bottom open a little and deep breathing through my mouth... almost had to step out for a little while. Not fun
I might have to compromise and make myself one out of a more open weave fabric. Less protection, but today was not fun.
Left there to get some food and where we stopped was carry out only, no restrooms. Tried McD’s because one of the kids needed to go and we had over an hour to get home. Nope. Next was Dick’s Sporting Goods because the one in WV had restroom access (we were in MD today), but they closed as we pulled up. So frustrating! We want to go places, sometimes just to ride around or for outdoor activities, but without bathroom access it makes it hard. I know the boat ramp we frequent would usually have a portapotty or two during the warm months but since the camping area is “closed” there isn’t one, and no trash cans either. The place has been nasty lately because people just don’t care, and I know the woods have turned into restroom facilities for the bookoos of people congregating there (or the river now that the water is warmer). Ew. One park/nature preserve we went to had portapotties available but signs that you had to supply your own hand sanitizer due to thefts.6 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Based on the interview link I posted . . . it may go beyond that, to the probabilities.
Contact tracing is going to have to cut off at some point. Practicality (can you identify them) is one part of that, as you say. Probability of transmission is another.
To use an intentionally absurd/extreme example: If someone has Covid & licks a stamp and puts the envelope in their mailbox, then a mail deliverer handles the envelope and immediately touches their face, I suppose maybe there's a small chance of viral transfer in sufficient quantities to cause infection . . . but I doubt the contact tracers will be trying to identify who our mail deliverer is, even though it could be done in most cases.
Timing is also relevant. The virus has various lifespans on different types of surfaces. It is unlikely that the letter will be collected from the mailbox immediately after the stamp was licked by the infected person.2 -
ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »"LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?"
Write a list and stick to it is safest. Get in and out as fast as possible. We have almost zero active cases here and I still am doing that for now.
We have low cases in our county too.
We try to make a list. I was having trouble making a list this time because I'm on a special diet for 7-10 days and I literally had to shop for stuff to find stuff I could eat.
Whether or not you have a list, you might not realize something on your list is down an aisle until you pass it. I guess if you went up and down ever aisle so you didn't miss one, but that seems kind of excessive too.
I'm totally incapable of doing this myself, but my mom used to put her grocery list in order by aisle, routinely. (She could remember what was where in her customary store, so it wasn't a huge effort; and she was Just. That. Organized. I didn't get that gene.)ExistingFish wrote: »ExistingFish wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »
Jeez Louise. I feel like they need to issue everyone with official 6’ long sticks - if I can reach you with my stick, I am legally allowed to hit you with my stick...Here's a fun story for you. This is by far the stupidest thing I've seen so far. I was at the store and this guy standing near me literally pulled his mask down to sneeze out into the open air and then pulled it back on. I guess he didn't want to breathe in his own sneeze and mess up his mask with sneeze juices. Thanks, buddy. 🤧 I navigated away from him ASAP, but I couldn't freaking believe it. And there was an elderly woman standing right in his sneeze zone.
Not only are more than half the people not wearing masks anymore, since the local leadership caved to the complainers and made masks optional but recommended, some of those who are wearing them are doing crap like that.
Opening things up wouldn't be so bad if people would behave themselves and follow recommended guidelines. Especially when we're living in a covid hot zone.
When we make things optional, like wearing masks in stores, people seem to choose poorly. It seems to be all or nothing with people. They are acting like it has to be a complete shut down OR completely open and throwing all caution to the wind. Why can't we open things up AND use precautions?
Bwahahhahahaha!
Issue the order - I'm ready for battle! My staff training may finally pay off...
I've seen video of myself doing staff training. Sadly, it did not look like that.
Some of the behavior in stores does have me thinking again about exploiting li'l ol' lady privilege to carry a (gratefully, so far) physically unnnecessary cane, so I have the option of whacking people with it at an extreme.
I was out again today at 3 stores (local health food grocery, Whole Foods, Costco), and again the experience varied some (in terms of number wearing masks) and how people behaved, as compared with other times. That mouth-only mask thing was more common today, for example.
Does anyone else find themselves getting more short-tempered? (I assume in my case it's from isolation, either unacknowledged stress, "cabin fever" or atrophy of social skills from exercising them less.) A woman behnd me in the exit line at Costco was very impatient - I'd almost swear she clicked at me at one point, like some form of indoor horn-honking. (I admit to being a li'l ol' lady, but more spry than doddering physically, truly.) At one point, behind me, she muttered "does she have to be so slow", either about the receipt-checker at the door, or the woman just finishing being checked, who was getting her stuff together. I admit, I turned around, looked her in the face, and raised an eyebrow at her (above my mask ) quite emphatically, though I did keep my mouth shut. This is really not like me. I rarely get irritated, and pretty much never broadcast it. (In my particular Scandinavian Midwestern subculture, a raised eyebrow is a very strong expression of emotion. ).
Oh, I'm bitchy in normal times, but last time I went to my closest grocery and some were just disregarding the posted rules (not masks, but the cart rules, and the arrows), I was muttering to myself about it. I realized I was being a freak and doing no good, but still. I decided just not to go there vs. becoming a nutjob.
Lately I've been going to my office with strict rules but few are there yet, so have been a bit on the non compliant side (doors are labeled exit and entrance but there aren't enough there yet for you to meet up with anyone).
I've found the one-way foot traffic in the stores to be the trickiest to adhere to. They need bigger arrows. I'm constantly back-tracking because I forgot something or have to substitute, etc. That's when I notice I'm going the wrong way. Oops.
I feel like I have to go up and down every aisle, even ones I don't need anything in, because I don't want to deal with skipping to an aisle I do need something in, and finding myself at the wrong end of it.
I kept passing an isle, looking down and seeing something I need, then having to go forward to the next isle and double back (or back up, to the isle before), it sure did create a lot of extra steps.
I feel like I should link this comment to the "NEAT Improvement Strategies to Improve Weight Loss" thread: Burning extra calories via confusing arrow-triggered backtracks while grocery shopping.
LOL yeah, but it also means I spend more time in the store around other people, and those extra steps cause me to walk past more people, where if I just walked where I needed, I might not pass those people. So, does it really cut down risk? Or make it riskier?
Oh, absolutely. It was a joke, just that we're on a calorie counting site with so many people wanting to burn more of the little suckers. I wasn't saying anything about the risk, just the "exercise" - Pollyanna looking for a tiny bright side in the Corona mess, I guess.
Concerning risk:
There was an interesting interview on NPR's Fresh Air this week, with Michaael Osterholm the founder/director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at UMinnesota, and author of "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs". His center is doing research specifically now on what circumstances have what risk of exposure to sufficient viral load to be dangerous, and related topics. (Link at the bottom to the story/audio. There's much more in the audio (41 minutes) than the text. Interesting guy, long experience.
From memory, I think he was saying that these "quick pass by" situations are less risky than a few minutes actually in close space with another person. Now, obviously, the risk is still non-zero, and I totally hear what you're saying about the numbers of people we pass being a multiplier of that risk. Still, I found the interview somewhat reassuring about the practical risk levels in grocery stores and the like.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/17/879255417/amid-confusion-about-reopening-an-expert-explains-how-to-assess-covid-risk
Here the contact tracers ask who you have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes. I guess because you don't know the names of everyone you passed at Walmart.
Based on the interview link I posted . . . it may go beyond that, to the probabilities.
Contact tracing is going to have to cut off at some point. Practicality (can you identify them) is one part of that, as you say. Probability of transmission is another.
To use an intentionally absurd/extreme example: If someone has Covid & licks a stamp and puts the envelope in their mailbox, then a mail deliverer handles the envelope and immediately touches their face, I suppose maybe there's a small chance of viral transfer in sufficient quantities to cause infection . . . but I doubt the contact tracers will be trying to identify who our mail deliverer is, even though it could be done in most cases.
Timing is also relevant. The virus has various lifespans on different types of surfaces. It is unlikely that the letter will be collected from the mailbox immediately after the stamp was licked by the infected person.
Of course. I was intentionally trying to make up a scenario where a contact could be traced (it wouldn't be that hard to find out who my mail carrier is), but the contact tracers would be unlikely to ask about them because the probability of transmission to them is so low.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Ate at Los Portales for lunch with wife, kids and daughter in law for first dine in event since things went bat crazy. Some of the staff were wearing masks but not one person dining was wearing a mask. There were some missing tables.
Obviously not possible to dine with a mask on. The stipulations for restaurants reopening here included greater distancing, so some tables had to be removed, and less diners accommodated in the same space.
What happened here in SA was phased re opening of restaurants.
Initially outdoor dining only, now we are including indoor dining but tables have to be more spaced apart and diners/ drinkers have to stay at their designated table - ie they can't mingle at the bar and we can't have any form of communal eating like salad bars or buffets.
0
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