Coronavirus prep
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »girlwithcurls2 wrote: »I live within 3 miles of five sisters and their families, as well as my elderly parents. But, my risk of getting or giving them the virus is the same as if we were strangers. I totally understand how one family's needs might be different than my own, but for MY family, we are OK giving this up. I have seen my parents a handful of times, outside, at a distance. To think I may have given one of them their last hug is heartbreaking. I'm also "watching the numbers" and following the trends-gyms, bars/restaurants, and small indoor gatherings, typically family parties. I'd never, ever forgive myself if I hosted an event that spread this through my family.
But (legit question) will you forgive yourself if they should pass and you didn't see them/spend time with them while they were here? Is it really worth the heartache of not being around family if something should happen to them? I'd personally find it cold comfort that hey at least I didn't give them covid! Not making light of the fact that some people have concerns about covid and that some people are more likely to die from getting it but to me all the things we are giving up or being asked to give up is worse than the disease or risk of disease.
I couldn't forgive myself if I gave COVID to one of my high-risk family members and they got very ill or died.
If they died of other causes, I would still have all the many, many years of celebrations and holidays to remember.
It would not weigh on me that I didn't see them for their "last one".
For me, it is not worth the risk.
The same here and well said!7 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »...During the pandemic I have only been to a medical provider once, for a sudden-onset condition that seemed unlikely to be life-threatening, but could potentially have threatened my vision. I had no problem getting in to see my provider, and their office seemed reasonably busy, and there were safety protocols (including required masks) in place. Would I have been more hesitant to seek treatment if this had happened when cases were surging in my area, rather than at a time when they were falling? Possibly, maybe even probably.
I have to agree with this. If there were no "lock-down" procedures in place (no masks, no social distancing, and sickness circulating unabated) I wouldn't go anywhere near medical facilities. But as it is, with all the procedures and restrictions in place and most people where I live following them, I have had no problem accessing the lab, pharmacy, telehealth appointments, in-person if I needed it, etc. I stayed away initially so I wouldn't be a burden on the system, but that was only for a couple of months, and my personal choice. Since then I have only still avoided my regular dental appointments. I'm diligent with my dental hygiene, though, so I don't expect my teeth to fall apart if I go without cleanings for a year. And, IMO, there are more options for mental health outreach these days, not less.9 -
stevehenderson776 wrote: »gracegettingittogether wrote: »Yes, it is. There are also many people dying because they aren’t able to get the care they need for their chronic diseases because of hospitals closing because of stopping non emergency procedures. It does make me angry when people say it’s all worth it, if it saves one life...one life from COVID that is. Do all the other lives lost from canceled cancer screenings, inability to book needed scheduled procedures, suicides, overdosing from depression and anxiety due to isolation and inability to get to mental health groups just not count them? Why not? Are their lives not as important just because they don’t have the ‘in’ disease?
The thing is in medicine, there’s almost always side effects. But somehow, that doesn’t seem to apply because it’s been overtaken by politics, which doesn’t like nuances. It’s called the art of medicine precisely because there are nuances! People die when we ignore that.
Yeah. Surgery cancellations and suspensions have been an issue here. Wait times were already on the ridiculous side for certain procedures and now they're getting outrageous. Grandma needs a new knee so she won't have to live every waking moment in pain? Tough titties. Try again in a year or two. Here's a morphine addiction to tide her over.
Hell, even routine lab work is backed up a mile.
This sort of thing must be very localized, because I've heard about problems like that online, but I know people in a NYC suburb, OH, and WA who are getting medical procedures as per usual, and here in VA routine appts, screenings, surgeries etc with no issue. I guess it depends how developed and we'll staffed the healthcare industry in your area is.
Now that I think about it, all of the areas i mentioned are in close proximity to universities and university hospitals. I'd bet that factors in.
I don't live near a university or university hospitals; however, I didn't have a problem accessing treatments. Actually, it was encouraged by my health insurance and the HMO that manages it. Maybe because I am a Medicare recipient, or maybe because some cities, counties or states prioritize medical care in a different way.
I got my Dexa and mammogram appointments this year without delays or a fuss. I had a wrist fracture in February, right in the middle of the first COVID wave, but I had appointments with the orthopedic doctor, got X Rays, and PT sessions without problems. The same with my dental and eye doctor visits, including my ENT yearly check-up.
On the other hand, I heard from friends and acquaintance that they were delaying doctors and dental visits or treatments because they were afraid of catching COVID at their offices. I personally feel safer in a medical building than in the supermarket. I go to the doctors but I use Instacart for food shopping.
Maybe it is not the health system's fault, but the fear of the patients what is doing the damage.5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Some of the issue was that if you already had a cancer diagnosis you could continue treatment, but if you didn't...you were often deferred because "elective" procedures (such as diagnostics) were not being done. Or you couldn't get in to see that specialist because of Covid restrictions.
The restrictions even now on visitation in hospitals (because of course it makes sense for a sick person to be alone for 20 hours of the day....) are ridiculous. Or if you are in the ED you can't have anyone with you.
In general I agree with the poster above who pointed out that not only health screenings are being put off but the incidents of abuse, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, etc are all on the rise. I read a statistic recently that said that the US is up 300,000 deaths from where they thought we'd be (I could be wrong in my remembering honestly) if 200k of those are covid the other 100k is covid related in some form probably - why aren't we freaking out about that number?
Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is. The cure for the disease can NOT be worse than the disease itself and we are heading that way at this point though I fear we are already there.
Some of those excess 100,000 deaths are almost certainly undiagnosed covid deaths, given how difficult it has been to get tested in most places in the U.S. for much of the time this pandemic has been going on. I'd want to know how many excess respiratory and organ shutdown deaths there have that weren't attributed to a specific disease through testing.
And there are also many people who, so far as we know, may be being harmed in irrecovable ways from COVID (we simply can't know whether folks who are still suffering extreme fatigue, "brain fog" that leaves them unable to work, shortness of breath that leaves them unable to live the lives they were living before, etc. will ever recover -- we just don't have the data on a novel virus).
I don't think the public policy response has been perfect in choosing what needs to be shut down and how much and how long, but I think we would all be in a better position and have better options if last Easter, last Memorial Day, last Independence Day, last Labor Day, so many people hadn't felt like they just couldn't give up large gatherings, often indoors, often unmasked.
Yes, if you look at the spikes in cases in the US, they come a few weeks after Memorial Day, Labor Day, etc. >.<7 -
RetiredAndLovingIt wrote: »I agree with what @jenilla1 said about the "old days" when people didn't travel that much. We lived about 200 miles from my grandparents & extended family, so we only saw them about every 1-2 years. My dh on the other hand had multiple grandparents, aunts, uncles, & cousins that all lived within about a 20 mile radius, so they saw each other frequently. I think this gives us a different perspective on what is necessary or not. I think I am a little more hesitant right now for close contact, although before Covid I was probably a "Mama Bear" that wanted everyone close. It is hard.
It's tempting to think - for an old curmudgeon like myself - that culturally we've just become used to quick gratification, not deferring gratification of our wishes. OTOH, from what I've read about the 1918 flu pandemic, people weren't appreciably better behaved than now, though the specific unhelpful behaviors differed.
I do think that we're both challenged by the commonness these days of immediate family being scattered over by distances, and spoiled by the relative ease and speed of traveling to be with them. Growing up (b.1955), most of my cousins were within that 20 mile or so radius, but their children are now all over the US, and a few international . . . but most see each other regularly. By contrast, when my grandmother left her family in Sweden back around the start of the 1900s at age 18, it was decades before she saw her siblings again. We have different expectations.Redordeadhead wrote: »girlwithcurls2 wrote: »It's kind of mind-boggling that people aren't willing to give up ONE year of holidays for the good of everybody. I am grateful that I live in a place where the majority of people are taking this seriously. Living with my 24 year old daughter who has put dating and socializing on hold hasn't been easy. She is restless, lonely, bored, fed up... like the rest of us. But she's also got friends who have been exposed to the virus, and friends who have had it. She's not taking any chances. She's a smart kid, but I can't help but remind her that it's not just her, but the rest of us in the house (me, her dad, and her 17 year old sister). I hate wearing a mask. But I would imagine I would hate a ventilator more.
I understand your point, but it sounds like you are lucky enough to live with your family. For those living alone, or separated from their parents or children, it's tough to imagine not seeing them for months or even a year.
I think it's difficult for any of us to have full empathy for others differently situated. I do try to empathize with people not seeing distant children or parents, but it is a bit of an abstraction. And I'm sure that it's different if one has an immediate family in-house, vs. a solo household with distant family. Rhere are also some different issues for those of us who are truly familialy alone, issues not on others' radar screen. For someone like me (no parents, children, siblings, spouse now), any relationships we do have tend to require more fostering and tending, because there aren't blood ties. I'll be comfortably spending the holidays alone, but aware that that makes future holidays more likely to be solo, too.
I'm not whining or complaining. Kind of the reverse intent, actually: There are degrees and flavors of "lucky", with different pros and cons. This is difficult in different ways for nearly everyone. Yeah, it's mind-boggling and tough to imagine . . . all the way around.12 -
Some of the issue was that if you already had a cancer diagnosis you could continue treatment, but if you didn't...you were often deferred because "elective" procedures (such as diagnostics) were not being done. Or you couldn't get in to see that specialist because of Covid restrictions.
The restrictions even now on visitation in hospitals (because of course it makes sense for a sick person to be alone for 20 hours of the day....) are ridiculous. Or if you are in the ED you can't have anyone with you.
In general I agree with the poster above who pointed out that not only health screenings are being put off but the incidents of abuse, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, etc are all on the rise. I read a statistic recently that said that the US is up 300,000 deaths from where they thought we'd be (I could be wrong in my remembering honestly) if 200k of those are covid the other 100k is covid related in some form probably - why aren't we freaking out about that number?
Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is. The cure for the disease can NOT be worse than the disease itself and we are heading that way at this point though I fear we are already there.paperpudding wrote: »What do you mean by why aren't we freaking out about that number....?.?
I accept elective procedures being delayed and I accept isolation has been very difficult for some people , but I don't agree at all that more deaths have been caused by Covid fear than by Covid itself
"Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is" is a claim not tethered to data.
The two are not equivalent and neither of them are quantifiable at this point.15 -
Some of the issue was that if you already had a cancer diagnosis you could continue treatment, but if you didn't...you were often deferred because "elective" procedures (such as diagnostics) were not being done. Or you couldn't get in to see that specialist because of Covid restrictions.
The restrictions even now on visitation in hospitals (because of course it makes sense for a sick person to be alone for 20 hours of the day....) are ridiculous. Or if you are in the ED you can't have anyone with you.
In general I agree with the poster above who pointed out that not only health screenings are being put off but the incidents of abuse, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, etc are all on the rise. I read a statistic recently that said that the US is up 300,000 deaths from where they thought we'd be (I could be wrong in my remembering honestly) if 200k of those are covid the other 100k is covid related in some form probably - why aren't we freaking out about that number?
Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is. The cure for the disease can NOT be worse than the disease itself and we are heading that way at this point though I fear we are already there.
There were only brief periods like that here, I believe. (Not saying it's the same everywhere. Don't know.) Over the period of time since Covid took a grip here, I've had a CT scan and an abdominal ultrasound; seen a gastroenterologist, pulmonologist, retinologist (not just my primary care, but him a couple of times, too); cancelled an appointment (my choice) with a osteoporosis specialist who was perfectly willing to meet with me; had a telehealth visit with a dermatologist who really would've preferred that I come to the office. I'm not having any trouble here in the last few months getting diagnostics, or seeing specialists. This is personal experience, not speculation. I know several people who've told me they've recently had their screening mammograms.
My impression is that there was a short but scary period here (maybe two months?) where certain kinds of screenings, diagnostics, and treatments were put on hold in non-emergency cases. Since then, from what I hear from friends, and experience personally, things are at least close to normal . . . except for the procedures in place at the facilities, which involve masks, temperature checks, limited seating in waiting rooms, wait-in-car procedures in some cases, etc.
I'm in Massachusetts and with the VA. I've had a LOT more medical care than usual:
1. Blood work for iron levels at the VA three times
2. ER visit (almost no waiting!) for a blood transfusion
3. Three iron infusions with another one scheduled
4. One Urgent Care visit which turned out to be due to my GP over prescribing oral iron
5. One physical therapy appointment
6. Flu shot (first in 30 years)
7. Lots and lots of tele-health (CBT, dietitian, and therapy)
Good thing I lost my job right before that all started
I cancelled a Dermatology visit (my choice.) I'm unable to get any more PT at this time as they are reserving spots for post-surgery patients and while I would like for that not to be the case, I understand and am ok with it.9 -
kshama2001 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Some of the issue was that if you already had a cancer diagnosis you could continue treatment, but if you didn't...you were often deferred because "elective" procedures (such as diagnostics) were not being done. Or you couldn't get in to see that specialist because of Covid restrictions.
The restrictions even now on visitation in hospitals (because of course it makes sense for a sick person to be alone for 20 hours of the day....) are ridiculous. Or if you are in the ED you can't have anyone with you.
In general I agree with the poster above who pointed out that not only health screenings are being put off but the incidents of abuse, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, etc are all on the rise. I read a statistic recently that said that the US is up 300,000 deaths from where they thought we'd be (I could be wrong in my remembering honestly) if 200k of those are covid the other 100k is covid related in some form probably - why aren't we freaking out about that number?
Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is. The cure for the disease can NOT be worse than the disease itself and we are heading that way at this point though I fear we are already there.
Some of those excess 100,000 deaths are almost certainly undiagnosed covid deaths, given how difficult it has been to get tested in most places in the U.S. for much of the time this pandemic has been going on. I'd want to know how many excess respiratory and organ shutdown deaths there have that weren't attributed to a specific disease through testing.
And there are also many people who, so far as we know, may be being harmed in irrecovable ways from COVID (we simply can't know whether folks who are still suffering extreme fatigue, "brain fog" that leaves them unable to work, shortness of breath that leaves them unable to live the lives they were living before, etc. will ever recover -- we just don't have the data on a novel virus).
I don't think the public policy response has been perfect in choosing what needs to be shut down and how much and how long, but I think we would all be in a better position and have better options if last Easter, last Memorial Day, last Independence Day, last Labor Day, so many people hadn't felt like they just couldn't give up large gatherings, often indoors, often unmasked.
Yes, if you look at the spikes in cases in the US, they come a few weeks after Memorial Day, Labor Day, etc. >.<
Yes, and with Thanksgiving, Black Friday, then Christmas, Hanukkah, New Years, etc. all coming up soon... we are in for trouble.9 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Some of the issue was that if you already had a cancer diagnosis you could continue treatment, but if you didn't...you were often deferred because "elective" procedures (such as diagnostics) were not being done. Or you couldn't get in to see that specialist because of Covid restrictions.
The restrictions even now on visitation in hospitals (because of course it makes sense for a sick person to be alone for 20 hours of the day....) are ridiculous. Or if you are in the ED you can't have anyone with you.
In general I agree with the poster above who pointed out that not only health screenings are being put off but the incidents of abuse, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, etc are all on the rise. I read a statistic recently that said that the US is up 300,000 deaths from where they thought we'd be (I could be wrong in my remembering honestly) if 200k of those are covid the other 100k is covid related in some form probably - why aren't we freaking out about that number?
Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is. The cure for the disease can NOT be worse than the disease itself and we are heading that way at this point though I fear we are already there.paperpudding wrote: »What do you mean by why aren't we freaking out about that number....?.?
I accept elective procedures being delayed and I accept isolation has been very difficult for some people , but I don't agree at all that more deaths have been caused by Covid fear than by Covid itself
"Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is" is a claim not tethered to data.
The two are not equivalent and neither of them are quantifiable at this point.
You will have to explain this to me as I cannot see how " covid fear is killing more people than covid itself " and "more deaths have been caused by covid fear than covid itself" are not equivalent statements.
I don't agree with the statements but can't see any difference between them
And I agree, not tethered to data.
No evidence to support the claim.
6 -
paperpudding wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Some of the issue was that if you already had a cancer diagnosis you could continue treatment, but if you didn't...you were often deferred because "elective" procedures (such as diagnostics) were not being done. Or you couldn't get in to see that specialist because of Covid restrictions.
The restrictions even now on visitation in hospitals (because of course it makes sense for a sick person to be alone for 20 hours of the day....) are ridiculous. Or if you are in the ED you can't have anyone with you.
In general I agree with the poster above who pointed out that not only health screenings are being put off but the incidents of abuse, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, etc are all on the rise. I read a statistic recently that said that the US is up 300,000 deaths from where they thought we'd be (I could be wrong in my remembering honestly) if 200k of those are covid the other 100k is covid related in some form probably - why aren't we freaking out about that number?
Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is. The cure for the disease can NOT be worse than the disease itself and we are heading that way at this point though I fear we are already there.paperpudding wrote: »What do you mean by why aren't we freaking out about that number....?.?
I accept elective procedures being delayed and I accept isolation has been very difficult for some people , but I don't agree at all that more deaths have been caused by Covid fear than by Covid itself
"Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is" is a claim not tethered to data.
The two are not equivalent and neither of them are quantifiable at this point.
You will have to explain this to me as I cannot see how " covid fear is killing more people than covid itself " and "more deaths have been caused by covid fear than covid itself" are not equivalent statements.
I don't agree with the statements but can't see any difference between them
And I agree, not tethered to data.
No evidence to support the claim.
I know I should just let @kshama2001 speak for herself, but I think you've misunderstood the post you're responding to. I don't think "the two" refers to the way you phrased the covid fear v. covid comparison and the other way of phrasing that comparison. I think "the two" refers to covid fear and covid.3 -
So, Covid fear and Covid are not equivalent??
well, no, they are not, I agree
but am still confused
never mind, carry on.6 -
Interesting point noted on last week's This Week in Virology. They said they believe the current developing spike in the US is due at least partially to grade school reopenings, but that transmission does not seem to be happening in the school environment. Their theory is that school reopenings is a subtle signal to the community that they're back to normal. So the reopening leads to more playdates and birthday parties and after soccer practice team meals. And since the weather isn't great anymore, this stuff is moving indoors and so the kids are passing covid around and bringing it home to parents and grandparents.12
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No Covid fear here since we have no Covid except the odd person in quarantine from overseas. Makes me angry some won't do what they should in other countries to save everyone else but what can you do? I would put them in prison actually. They are potentially killing others and making the disease go on for longer.13
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »My family has decided to not have a large Thanksgiving gathering this year, in order to keep everyone safe.
We are going to get together in small pods to limit the exposure risks.
My parents are going to have my uncle over, who lives alone.
I'm going to my sister's house, since she's alone.
My husband will have his brother and sister over, since they are both alone.
It would obviously be the safest if we all just stayed home, but this way, at least no one is alone on Thanksgiving. We have a lot of single people in our family.
I like this thinking. Be considerate but be safe.4 -
No Covid fear here since we have no Covid except the odd person in quarantine from overseas. Makes me angry some won't do what they should in other countries to save everyone else but what can you do? I would put them in prison actually. They are potentially killing others and making the disease go on for longer.
Who ever diagreed well you are the sort of person that needs to think about your actions or go to jail since you only care about yourself.3 -
paperpudding wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Some of the issue was that if you already had a cancer diagnosis you could continue treatment, but if you didn't...you were often deferred because "elective" procedures (such as diagnostics) were not being done. Or you couldn't get in to see that specialist because of Covid restrictions.
The restrictions even now on visitation in hospitals (because of course it makes sense for a sick person to be alone for 20 hours of the day....) are ridiculous. Or if you are in the ED you can't have anyone with you.
In general I agree with the poster above who pointed out that not only health screenings are being put off but the incidents of abuse, suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, etc are all on the rise. I read a statistic recently that said that the US is up 300,000 deaths from where they thought we'd be (I could be wrong in my remembering honestly) if 200k of those are covid the other 100k is covid related in some form probably - why aren't we freaking out about that number?
Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is. The cure for the disease can NOT be worse than the disease itself and we are heading that way at this point though I fear we are already there.paperpudding wrote: »What do you mean by why aren't we freaking out about that number....?.?
I accept elective procedures being delayed and I accept isolation has been very difficult for some people , but I don't agree at all that more deaths have been caused by Covid fear than by Covid itself
"Covid fear is killing more people (or at least harming them in irrevocable ways) than Covid itself is" is a claim not tethered to data.
The two are not equivalent and neither of them are quantifiable at this point.
You will have to explain this to me as I cannot see how " covid fear is killing more people than covid itself " and "more deaths have been caused by covid fear than covid itself" are not equivalent statements.
I don't agree with the statements but can't see any difference between them
And I agree, not tethered to data.
No evidence to support the claim.
Sure, I meant "Covid fear is killing more people" is not the same as "(or at least harming them in irrevocable ways)".
Death and irrevocable harm are both bad, but not equivalent, making an already weak argument weaker.4 -
No Covid fear here since we have no Covid except the odd person in quarantine from overseas. Makes me angry some won't do what they should in other countries to save everyone else but what can you do? I would put them in prison actually. They are potentially killing others and making the disease go on for longer.
Yes. Same here. Persons from high-risk countries must arrive here with a recent negative test result or be tested on arrival, then a re-test after a prescribed number of days. Any positive tests are immediately isolated until recovery. We have absolutely no local spread. Now there's stricter monitoring of those awaiting their second test, as a few have been reluctant to follow the protocols.6 -
@mockchoc and @tonyB0588 just curious what countries you are each in. it's interesting to see how COVID is controlled in different places.1
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@mockchoc and @tonyB0588 just curious what countries you are each in. it's interesting to see how COVID is controlled in different places.
A Caribbean island. All the Caribbean islands are tourist destinations. Most have reopened to tourism, but with rigid protocols to ensure no visitors pass the virus on to the local population.5 -
Mockchoc is in Queensland, Australia
(hope you don't mind me answering this)2 -
0
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I don't mind paperpudding
Yes I'm up north near the Great Barrier Reef. 1 -
I do hope you all will be safe. Disagree whatever. I still think if you are fine spreading it around you deserve to be in jail.8
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I do hope you all will be safe. Disagree whatever. I still think if you are fine spreading it around you deserve to be in jail.
I was the first person to disagree with your post about prison for those not complying. I don't believe that is the answer. So I disagree.
I social distance and wear a mask. I haven't been to a restaurant or inside a store since March. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are not doing the right thing. I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't prison.11 -
I do hope you all will be safe. Disagree whatever. I still think if you are fine spreading it around you deserve to be in jail.
I was the first person to disagree with your post about prison for those not complying. I don't believe that is the answer. So I disagree.
I social distance and wear a mask. I haven't been to a restaurant or inside a store since March. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are not doing the right thing. I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't prison.
Ditto.
If nothing else, prisons are generally great breeding grounds for contagious diseases. @mockchoc may think that's just karma, but this is a "no man is an island" situation -- you can't add to the pool of contagion and think you won't be untouched. In many places in the U.S., they were doing early paroles, release of nonviolent offenders, etc., to try to reduce prison crowding a few months back.5 -
I didn't know they did that but agree that is a good idea. I just hope they think of others and not just themselves when out. Everyone deserves to be safe or as safe as they can be.4
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I do hope you all will be safe. Disagree whatever. I still think if you are fine spreading it around you deserve to be in jail.
Here we had big fines or prison terms for breaking curfew earlier this year. Now it's a big fine or prison term for breaching any quarantine or isolation order. People who have the virus or who may have been exposed to someone else who has it, CANNOT be allowed to endanger the rest of the population without some penalty.5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I do hope you all will be safe. Disagree whatever. I still think if you are fine spreading it around you deserve to be in jail.
I was the first person to disagree with your post about prison for those not complying. I don't believe that is the answer. So I disagree.
I social distance and wear a mask. I haven't been to a restaurant or inside a store since March. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are not doing the right thing. I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't prison.
Ditto.
If nothing else, prisons are generally great breeding grounds for contagious diseases. @mockchoc may think that's just karma, but this is a "no man is an island" situation -- you can't add to the pool of contagion and think you won't be untouched. In many places in the U.S., they were doing early paroles, release of nonviolent offenders, etc., to try to reduce prison crowding a few months back.
Prison wouldn't be a COVID19 problem if you put proper protocols in place for new entrants.
COVID test on entering, and 14 day confinement away from the other prisoners, followed by a second COVID test for confirmation.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »I do hope you all will be safe. Disagree whatever. I still think if you are fine spreading it around you deserve to be in jail.
I was the first person to disagree with your post about prison for those not complying. I don't believe that is the answer. So I disagree.
I social distance and wear a mask. I haven't been to a restaurant or inside a store since March. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are not doing the right thing. I don't know what the answer is, but it isn't prison.
Ditto.
If nothing else, prisons are generally great breeding grounds for contagious diseases. @mockchoc may think that's just karma, but this is a "no man is an island" situation -- you can't add to the pool of contagion and think you won't be untouched. In many places in the U.S., they were doing early paroles, release of nonviolent offenders, etc., to try to reduce prison crowding a few months back.
Prison wouldn't be a COVID19 problem if you put proper protocols in place for new entrants.
COVID test on entering, and 14 day confinement away from the other prisoners, followed by a second COVID test for confirmation.
What about the guards and other people who work in the prisons?6
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